The Filthy Critic

[My Erotic Tale]

I will close this repeating one thing: you can be sure that your hateful and hypocritical anti-critic crusade and the mindless back-patting you brought has made more and better poets and newbies leave this place than all the harshest criticisms put together, and for that, if not for anything else, you should feel ashamed. You should feel that shame each time you feel like starting a thread like this.

First I enjoyed the indepth thoughts you had here, even with your twisted thoughts of me riddled in here but......

I disagree totally and can account for most that have left this forum because of you, jim, ydd and a few more...can you make a list of those that left cause I was being nice or hard on a critic that ran a new poet off. I doubt this...I stand firm with this cause I made that thread that had a running list of those that left for the harsh views of those that you say will teach for free, if we kneel properly.

now I ain't a gonna dabble every topic you touched, but I did appreciate the indepth thoughts you have on this subject, I wished to learn so why am I to be ashamed of that? The Critics here can spill hatred and less than favorable comments to poets but when a comment is left about a comment, you all get upset <why> a critic can not be critiqued? (why not)

Art-

First of all, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you want to discuss anything rationally and, in your words, "debate/converse this topic without slander", why do you use expressions like "filthy critic", "asshole" and "stuffy and pompuss (sic) professors"? You have no interest in learning anything - you are a man with a made-mind, and to hell with anyone else. The fact that you can't even see this hypocrisy would be sad, if we weren't already so used to it, and I am certain that your attitude has scared off more people from the site than all the harshest critics put together.

The word filthy critic is a critic that calls himself a filthy critic, I called no one this...
Who says I do not wish to learn? Is this an assessment from you? I can still find the list and add to it if need be, it is sad that so many left, regardless of reason, does this not point to a problem?

There are many more positive connotations of the words critic and criticism in your own definition than there are negative. What do you have to say to that?

I have not seen any....

What have you read, Art? "Nobody likes a critic"? Nobody likes a doctor either, but if you're sick, you better find one. Some people don't like critics because they don't want to know about the flaws of what they're doing. Ignorance is bliss, as you know. But if you want to learn, if you want to get better, then you have to find out what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. If you just sit and pat your own back, you'll grow roots and die before you start writing poetry. If you want to grow as a poet, you listen to the opinions of those around you - all the opinions, not just the ones that stroke your ego.

I have been recieving comments that my poetry is better than it has been, I am a hobby poet, there is no profession of poetry or if there is I won't be on it, 1201 said two poets a century get recognition well that won't be you or me. I am being published in 6 books by summer 2006...why, cause I am getting better. I have a friend who is a lit major at SAM U, that helps me...two great online personalities help me here without the critic ego stroking personality that you and others poses here. I don't cotton to that and you don't like it, but to say I am not learning or want to learn is your justification as to why I don't ask you for help? Or that is what I figure cause why else would you say this?

one of your comments states...>>>lauren>>>There you go again with the credentials. Where did this obsession come from? Usually, the only people who even mention credentials actually have them.

my lit major profeesor told me that most critics have not the credentials to be a critic there fore listen to only those with scholastic learning and not self taught, that is where this come from...this same person come to lit as a favor to me and ya'll acted like...well they were appauled that so many stroke themselves and will not partake in such idiocy. that is a shame when a very learned person will not come to this forum or has and was not happy with the intellect that resides here. Ego strokers, I was told. Where else would I learn of such big words <grin> In all honety the other reason was it is looked at as a porn site, that is just being honet.


which answers the next comment

The same thing applies to criticism. Academic degrees theoretically give you the experience and the body of knowledge needed to support an opinion. Whether that opinion has more or less validity than any other, has nothing to do with this. You should pay attention to the opinion, not to the person giving it to you. "Giving" to you - noticed the word chosen?

Thank you Lauren, I do not feel as though I learned from this yet, but damn it I am trying, when some one attacks a poem on the new poems list. We should all burry our heads and say "OKAY A CRITIC AT WORK HERE" sorry but I see more of an attack when that person passes say ten poems to pick at a certain person for being a helpful name here. "Your Poems Crap" or "this poem is Aweful" or "Don't write poetry any more" is excepted by those who do not care is how I see it. I for one CARE how new poets develope because I am one, I know a few and I have had way to many PMs and E-mails with tears or upset because somebody felt they were teaching poetry by being a critic with harsh words.

I am asking because I wanted to know, so no...I don't feel ashamed, what I am ashamed of is when a nice person has their poem attacked by a literary maniac and the rest hide their head in the sand or are to busy removing posts. It is okay cause it is a critic.

I think I really am trying to point to those who do not have a very nice way of saying things and I think you will agree, who will listen to some one that is not polite, I do not and many I know will not. So ...why bother other than it is a charactor flaw...not a critic. I get a critic from those I ask to critic and I learn from a focussed mind that knows how to enteract with others, perhaps a course on this is more needed than more critics.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Art,

when you review the New Poems for a day, and write what you liked about them, guess what you are?

Hint: It starts with a C and ends with RITIC.

Yes.

You.

A critic.

A critic is not (I repeat: NOT) a person who slams down and says "this sux" all the time.

A critic is a person who examines a piece of art (or something else) and tells other people what he thought about it.

That is all. Why is that filthy?

then why does it say

"New Poem Reviews?"....<bigrin>

I think the reviews don't count mostly because we pick what we liked and spot light them as an advertisement more than to pick them apart which is what the dictionary says a critic is, I never pick a poem apart on that thread.

 

[duckiesmut]

then why does it say

"New Poem Reviews?"....<bigrin>

I think the reviews don't count mostly because we pick what we liked and spot light them as an advertisement more than to pick them apart which is what the dictionary says a critic is, I never pick a poem apart on that thread.

Since we're playing the dictionary game, it seems:

review:

To look over, study, or examine again.
To consider retrospectively; look back on.
To examine with an eye to criticism or correction: reviewed the research findings.
To write or give a critical report on (a new work or performance, for example).
Law. To reexamine (an action or determination) judicially, especially in a higher court, in order to correct possible errors.
To subject to a formal inspection, especially a military inspection.


It would seem the dictionary disagrees with your interpretation of the word review. Do you see 'advertisement' anywhere in any of those definitions? No. Though I do see mention of both 'criticism' and 'critical'.

 

[bogusbrig]

Aah Critics! There is a wicked rumour they are human too! As the saying goes 'They are like eunuchs in a brothel. They are there everynight, they see it every night but they can't do it!'

At their best they are priceless and at their worst they are arseholes. I know a couple of professional critics personally and giving them the space to be human they are OK. One just has to accept they have their own personal game to play. They have the editor and the readership to please or at least earn their respect, which isn't always easy. Also like any human being they are subjective and swayed by their own prejudices.

I've seen one critic change his opinion of an artist overnight, simply because he slept with her or at least so the wicked rumour goes. He did actually write he had discovered a deeper insight into her work. Hmm Deeper in what way? I am not suggesting she was a good lay because I've never been fortunate enough to find out. But all this is candy floss.

You listen to what they say and if you think their analysis is valueable you would be a fool to ignore it. If you think it's nonsense, you ignore it. I had a criticism about one of my exhibitions and I couldn't recognise my work in the critique, the critique seemed to know more about my motivations and what was going on in my head than me. That being said it was a positive critique so I didn't say the critique was bullshit, I was happy to go along with the game but if the critique had been bad, well........

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Aah Critics! There is a wicked rumour they are human too! As the saying goes 'They are like eunuchs in a brothel. They are there everynight, they see it every night but they can't do it!'

At their best they are priceless and at their worst they are arseholes. I know a couple of professional critics personally and giving them the space to be human they are OK. One just has to accept they have their own personal game to play. They have the editor and the readership to please or at least earn their respect, which isn't always easy. Also like any human being they are subjective and swayed by their own prejudices.

I've seen one critic change his opinion of an artist overnight, simply because he slept with her or at least so the wicked rumour goes. He did actually write he had discovered a deeper insight into her work. Hmm Deeper in what way? I am not suggesting she was a good lay because I've never been fortunate enough to find out. But all this is candy floss.

You listen to what they say and if you think their analysis is valueable you would be a fool to ignore it. If you think it's nonsense, you ignore it. I had a criticism about one of my exhibitions and I couldn't recognise my work in the critique, the critique seemed to know more about my motivations and what was going on in my head than me. That being said it was a positive critique so I didn't say the critique was bullshit, I was happy to go along with the game but if the critique had been bad, well........

thank you duckie

perhaps I should pick poems apart then I will be more recieved than trying to be a nice guy. Sorry if you'll read the tale in the top of the reviews today and yesterday you note my take on life, I try to help people, not harm them with riddled words in a critique.

 

[duckiesmut]

thank you duckie

perhaps I should pick poems apart then I will be more recieved than trying to be a nice guy. Sorry if you'll read the tale in the top of the reviews today and yesterday you note my take on life, I try to help people, not harm them with riddled words in a critique.

I didn't offer my opinion on your reviews.

I simply stated the definition of 'review', as you did with another word to begin this thread. Apologies if this definition doesn't quite suit your argument.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

Aah Critics! There is a wicked rumour they are human too! As the saying goes 'They are like eunuchs in a brothel. They are there everynight, they see it every night but they can't do it!'

At their best they are priceless and at their worst they are arseholes. I know a couple of professional critics personally and giving them the space to be human they are OK. One just has to accept they have their own personal game to play. They have the editor and the readership to please or at least earn their respect, which isn't always easy. Also like any human being they are subjective and swayed by their own prejudices.

I've seen one critic change his opinion of an artist overnight, simply because he slept with her or at least so the wicked rumour goes. He did actually write he had discovered a deeper insight into her work. Hmm Deeper in what way? I am not suggesting she was a good lay because I've never been fortunate enough to find out. But all this is candy floss.

You listen to what they say and if you think their analysis is valueable you would be a fool to ignore it. If you think it's nonsense, you ignore it. I had a criticism about one of my exhibitions and I couldn't recognise my work in the critique, the critique seemed to know more about my motivations and what was going on in my head than me. That being said it was a positive critique so I didn't say the critique was bullshit, I was happy to go along with the game but if the critique had been bad, well........

thanks bogus

I see this a lot,

I just recieved a note that states

those who write, write
those who can't critique

I see this as funny cause here it is the same...those who critique don't write here either <grin>

 

[annaswirls]

Why did that turn me on?

ya sweeder vinsen laudertong

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I disagree totally and can account for most that have left this forum because of you, jim, ydd and a few more... can you make a list of those that left cause I was being nice or hard on a critic that ran a new poet off. I doubt this...

I would like to see that list of yours, and I'd like to know what has happened to them. Anyone who left because of criticism made to their poetry, certainly has no interest in poetry itself, and would have left anyway, had they seen the title of the forum: Poetry Feedback & Discussion.

You want my list? Where are daughter and U.P., where are perks, TheDR4KE, karmadog, WriterDom, SA Storm, REDWAVE, Whispersecret, KatPurrs, JUDO, Ded Poet, upfront, HomerPindar, KillerMuffin, Senna Jawa, irishcatsmeow, Sweetwood, Riven___Caulfield, RisiaSkye, _Land, lickmyboot, Randi Grail, DeepAsleep, Kundalinguini, Ancient117331, Zhuk, OT, nakedangelina, Cordelia, silken_dreammaid, fawnie, echoes_s, Fflow, RazzRajen, mojo_cat, jd4george, Xtaabay, denis hale, steve porter, foehn, darkmaas, jthserra, PatCarrington, Tathagata, tarablackwood22, Syndra Lynn, ishtat, tungtied2u, The_Fool, Angeline and WickedEve?

why am I to be ashamed of that? The Critics here can spill hatred and less than favorable comments to poets but when a comment is left about a comment, you all get upset <why> a critic can not be critiqued? (why not)

No critic has ever spilled hatred on anyone, and you only see it that way if that's what you want to see. Critical comments are directed at your poems, not at you, and if you had any respect for language, if you had any interest whatsoever in learning, you would recognise that.

Your own mind and heart are so full of negativity and hatred that whenever you see someone giving an honest opinion about a work's merits and failures, you take it personally as an insult. That is why your poetry will never be what it could be. Because you are too blinded by hate.

I have not seen any....

I'll post it again, then. It has already been posted three times, but it can be again:

critic, noun.
1 a a person who makes judgments of the merits and faults of books, music, pictures, plays, acting, or other works of literature or art. Many critics write upon their subject as a profession. We read what the critics in the newspapers had to say about the new play to find out if it was worth seeing. b a person who judges the suitability or quality of anything.

criticism, noun.
2 the making of judgments; approving or disapproving; analysis of merits and faults: Just criticism should be welcomed. Criticism is simply the method by which existing ideas and institutions are submitted to the test of principles, ideas, ideals, and possibilities (Adlai Stevenson).
3 the art or principles of making careful judgments on the merits and faults of books, music, plays, acting, or other literary or artistic works: literary criticism, drama criticism. Criticism should reveal the character, the spirit of writing, rather than attempt a tape measure estimate of the writer’s status (New York Times).
4 a critical comment, essay, or review; critique: Before I finish this theme, I would appreciate your criticisms of what I have written.
5 the critical science dealing with the text, character, composition, and origin of literary documents, especially of the Bible.​

There are many more positive connotations of the words critic and criticism in your own definition than there are negative. What do you have to say to that?

Thank you Lauren, I do not feel as though I learned from this yet, but damn it I am trying

No, you're not. You're fooling yourself, and hurting yourself, your poetry, and a bunch of innocent by-standers in the process.

I know you're not ashamed of the damage you cause, and I'm not surprised at this. Not coming from you. But you very well should. Deeply ashamed.

 

[CharleyH]

Art,

It is statements like you have made in your response to Lauren, statements that you redundantly bring up time and again, that make me roll my eyes in absolute amazement regarding the blindness of your mind. Can you not see your own hypocracy and contradiction?

wow.

 

[annaswirls]

since nothing intelligent seems to seep into your brain

I disagree totally and can account for most that have left this forum because of you, jim, ydd and a few more...

yip goddle slep

 

[Lauren Hynde]

thank you duckie

perhaps I should pick poems apart then I will be more recieved than trying to be a nice guy. Sorry if you'll read the tale in the top of the reviews today and yesterday you note my take on life, I try to help people, not harm them with riddled words in a critique.

Perhaps you should. It would do your own poetry a world of difference, and it would show you how limited you are.

It would make you understand what we are all trying to say to you.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

I didn't offer my opinion on your reviews.

I simply stated the definition of 'review', as you did with another word to begin this thread. Apologies if this definition doesn't quite suit your argument.

I am not concerned with what fits,,,

I am in serach of why we allow poeple to run poets off with harsh critique and turn thier heads when it happens. I say something to them about their rude critic and I am the bad guy cause I said I had the balls to say something to this ego maniac.

1201 states he has the balls to say what he feels, this is his license to be cruel when doing a REVIEW <grin> He is not the only one there has been so many the past year running the thin skinned off cause they want a harsh poetry forum. They even encouraged readers to go and low vote the TOP list to make it a harsher forum <I suspect a deeper reason> but my point is why is an amature porn site trying to be as harsh as a pay poetry workshop, simple...because some one wants it that way to dominate the thoughts and actions of others, I do not agree with this so I am not liked by the five or six that like to play this way.

These topics could start a new thread <grin> but somehow they all tie in together and I am trying to figure this out. So I asked.

 

[duckiesmut]

I am not concerned with what fits,,,

I am in serach of why we allow poeple to run poets off with harsh critique and turn thier heads when it happens. I say something to them about their rude critic and I am the bad guy cause I said I had the balls to say something to this ego maniac.

1201 states he has the balls to say what he feels, this is his license to be cruel when doing a REVIEW <grin> He is not the only one there has been so many the past year running the thin skinned off cause they want a harsh poetry forum. They even encouraged readers to go and low vote the TOP list to make it a harsher forum <I suspect a deeper reason> but my point is why is an amature porn site trying to be as harsh as a pay poetry workshop, simple...because some one wants it that way to dominate the thoughts and actions of others, I do not agree with this so I am not liked by the five or six that like to play this way.

These topics could start a new thread <grin> but somehow they all tie in together and I am trying to figure this out. So I asked.

You completely avoided the point.

An interesting example of circular logic.

 

[CharleyH]

thanks bogus

I see this a lot,

I just recieved a note that states

those who write, write
those who can't critique

I see this as funny cause here it is the same...those who critique don't write here either <grin>

Again, why you are so offensive under the guise that you are a sweet and innocent shepphard makes you look increasingly .... like an idiot.

Every person who critiques on Lit also writes as far as I know.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

but my point is why is an amature porn site trying to be as harsh as a pay poetry workshop

Art, if nothing else gets through into your brain, try to wrap it around this: This is the Poetry Feedback & Discussion.

Do you want Poetry Feedback & Discussion, or do you want a playground where to post amateur poetry at an amateur porn site? Think very carefully how you answer this question.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I just recieved a note that states

those who write, write
those who can't critique

I see this as funny cause here it is the same...those who critique don't write here either <grin>

You receive a lot of notes, it seems. How many of them are real?

Those who can't critique, can't write either.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

yip goddle slep

Pussy.

 

[My Erotic Tale]

I would like to see that list of yours, and I'd like to know what has happened to them. Anyone who left because of criticism made to their poetry, certainly has no interest in poetry itself, and would have left anyway, had they seen the title of the forum: Poetry Feedback & Discussion.

You want my list? Where are daughter and U.P., where are perks, TheDR4KE, karmadog, WriterDom, SA Storm, REDWAVE, Whispersecret, KatPurrs, JUDO, Ded Poet, upfront, HomerPindar, KillerMuffin, Senna Jawa, irishcatsmeow, Sweetwood, Riven___Caulfield, RisiaSkye, _Land, lickmyboot, Randi Grail, DeepAsleep, Kundalinguini, Ancient117331, Zhuk, OT, nakedangelina, Cordelia, silken_dreammaid, fawnie, echoes_s, Fflow, RazzRajen, mojo_cat, jd4george, Xtaabay, denis hale, steve porter, foehn, darkmaas, jthserra, PatCarrington, Tathagata, tarablackwood22, Syndra Lynn, ishtat, tungtied2u, The_Fool, Angeline and WickedEve?

I don't know or have never seen half these people so I am not the reason they left and from steve porter on down they are still here foehn left because...well it wasn;t me <grin> these I know and they are here,...not left becasue of me... steve porter, foehn, darkmaas, jthserra, PatCarrington, Tathagata, tarablackwood22, Syndra Lynn, ishtat, tungtied2u, The_Fool, Angeline and WickedEve?

those others must have left before me meaning...they didn't like the forum the way it was...like I said.


No critic has ever spilled hatred on anyone, and you only see it that way if that's what you want to see. Critical comments are directed at your poems, not at you, and if you had any respect for language, if you had any interest whatsoever in learning, you would recognise that.

oh come on, now who is being blind, you have never seen mischief comments or mean words...hell anna just posted the other day that a critic was not a good criotique but a vile something another ....get real.

i KNOW THERE ARE NICE AS WELL AS MEAN CRITICS and that is not your fault, I am not pinning that one on you. Goddess <grin>

Your own mind and heart are so full of negativity and hatred that whenever you see someone giving an honest opinion about a work's merits and failures, you take it personally as an insult. That is why your poetry will never be what it could be. Because you are too blinded by hate.


Lauren there is no hatred in my heart, those who know me know this, I do however...or could say the same for you, you seem angered all the time. I know not negativity. I find this very funny, my views to you are negative because they are on the opposite side of the fence from you and makes you feel better thinking this? I am a very easy going and likeable guy to those who are nice, those who choose to be disrespectfull to others then find me knocking on their door and asking why?

I'll post it again, then. It has already been posted three times, but it can be again:

critic, noun.
1 a a person who makes judgments of the merits and faults of books, music, pictures, plays, acting, or other works of literature or art. Many critics write upon their subject as a profession. We read what the critics in the newspapers had to say about the new play to find out if it was worth seeing. b a person who judges the suitability or quality of anything.

criticism, noun.
2 the making of judgments; approving or disapproving; analysis of merits and faults: Just criticism should be welcomed. Criticism is simply the method by which existing ideas and institutions are submitted to the test of principles, ideas, ideals, and possibilities (Adlai Stevenson).
3 the art or principles of making careful judgments on the merits and faults of books, music, plays, acting, or other literary or artistic works: literary criticism, drama criticism. Criticism should reveal the character, the spirit of writing, rather than attempt a tape measure estimate of the writer’s status (New York Times).
4 a critical comment, essay, or review; critique: Before I finish this theme, I would appreciate your criticisms of what I have written.
5 the critical science dealing with the text, character, composition, and origin of literary documents, especially of the Bible.​

There are many more positive connotations of the words critic and criticism in your own definition than there are negative. What do you have to say to that?

they don't come to lit <grin>


No, you're not. You're fooling yourself, and hurting yourself, your poetry, and a bunch of innocent by-standers in the process.

how, ,my publications shw I am improving with the help of some great minds and nice editors, how am I hurting any one here? this I would like to know, I ask to learn, I help new poets, I read and comment and learn from this and share with others and we enjoy what we do and that is frowned upon cause we make fun learning vs be serious and listen to me only,

I know you're not ashamed of the damage you cause, and I'm not surprised at this. Not coming from you. But you very well should. Deeply ashamed.

I do not know what you mean by damage I cause...to who. I am a helpful poet here. with a lot of support, I will find that list and then like your list we have two lists of people who left...but I promise I didn't cause them to leave, it was the harsh views and critiques here. Who left because of my views on critics or poetry....no one lauren that is absurd ...<grin> your list states people that have never met me or seen me, those that have are still here, half your list...is still here and most are those harsh critics. Who don't give a flying thought as to what I think.

 

[bogusbrig]

There is only one thing worse than a bad critique and that is no critique. I wonder how many people left because no interest was shown in them at all.

 

[annaswirls]

oh come on, now who is being blind, you have never seen mischief comments or mean words...hell anna just posted the other day that a critic was not a good criotique but a vile something another ....get real.

motherfucker don't quote me with mispellings and fucking nonsense.

you can quote me on that

find it or take it back


You are completely in-credible. You have lied and misrepresented me at least three times personally. So shut the fuck up with your little notes from sheheandthem and stop thinking everything is about You.

 

[annaswirls]

There is only one thing worse than a bad critique and that is no critique. I wonder how many people left because no interest was shown in them at all.

amen brother

 

[My Erotic Tale]

You receive a lot of notes, it seems. How many of them are real?

Those who can't critique, can't write either.

I know your a very learned writer lauren,
so I probably can't argue this point with you,

but this has to be an opinion,
say I for example who writes, then and editor makes presentable,
this is not a writer of your stature but a writer none the less.

I think you meant how many are from reputable writers?
or those here for fun? I know what you meant, they are poeple just the same, do you look at people who can not write as non people,

 

[My Erotic Tale]

There is only one thing worse than a bad critique and that is no critique. I wonder how many people left because no interest was shown in them at all.

that is a very good point Bogus

I bet a handful may have left because they recieved no attention...
ask wicked, I started reading every poem and when I first did reviews, I mentioned every poem, every day I commented on every poem, because I know one person who left because they did not recieve any attention at all, so wicked suggested I make the thread "A Poem Academy" <my title> and I made it a pet peave to ensure that all poems were read...I did this till I got my contract and had to meet deadlines, so Jennifer C took over for awhile till it got to much for her so we made the thread...new poets recognition...I and a couple others attacked this problem

 

[Lauren Hynde]

I don't know or have never seen half these people so I am not the reason they left and from steve porter on down they are still here foehn left because...well it wasn;t me <grin> these I know and they are here,...not left becasue of me... steve porter, foehn, darkmaas, jthserra, PatCarrington, Tathagata, tarablackwood22, Syndra Lynn, ishtat, tungtied2u, The_Fool, Angeline and WickedEve?

The left because of you, because of people like you, because of the board slowly turning into what you are turning it into, with your constant hate-speech, your slanders and your hypocrisy.

Steve porter is here? And foehn, darkmaas, jthserra, PatCarrington, Tathagata, tarablackwood22, Syndra Lynn, ishtat, tungtied2u, The_Fool, Angeline and WickedEve? Are you sure? Some of them may not have left, but are they here? Are you pleased with their current level of presence?

Steve, Foehn, Darkmaas, Jim, Pat, Tath, Tara, Syn, Ishtat, Tung, Fool, Ange, Eve, any of you, if you're out there reading this, answer this question: are you really here? Is your poetry here? Your heart? And if your answer is no, then why? If anything or anyone in the forum drove you out, what was it? The incredibly harsh critique we have?

Give me a break, Art. Where is your list? Where are these people who were so scared of the big bad critics?

Lauren there is no hatred in my heart, those who know me know this, I do however...or could say the same for you, you seem angered all the time. I know not negativity. I find this very funny, my views to you are negative because they are on the opposite side of the fence from you and makes you feel better thinking this? I am a very easy going and likeable guy to those who are nice, those who choose to be disrespectfull to others then find me knocking on their door and asking why?

Don't fool yourself. Who among us has slandered others? Who has told lies that have been disproved, and still can't admit to them? Who started this thread, and started dozen of others just like it, all insultuous in nature, with the sole purpose
of raising a climate of open war in the forum? Take a very deep and careful look at yourself and see the kind of hateful, hypocritical person you are, before you direct an insult at anyone else.

they don't come to lit <grin>

They have always been here, but you cannot see past the hatred in yourself.

how, ,my publications shw I am improving with the help of some great minds and nice editors, how am I hurting any one here? this I would like to know, I ask to learn, I help new poets, I read and comment and learn from this and share with others and we enjoy what we do and that is frowned upon cause we make fun learning vs be serious and listen to me only,

You're not improving, Art. You could be improving if you did what you say, if you asked to learn, if you read and commented, but you spend all your time running around chasing witches.

I do not know what you mean by damage I cause...to who. I am a helpful poet here. with a lot of support

What support?