The non-consent fantasy

[Guest]

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Re: Re: NON CONSENT FANTASY

it should really be termed a fetish, ravishment fetish.


pops.................

Bumpity bump.

Bringing it back up, as it's why and how I eventually got to D/s. And while I don't think it's part of D/s, anymore than say, scat, it does seem to be a sub- or related fetish, as part of the control issue. There was also a thread on roleplaying this but it's in how-to.

Anyone else interested in this?

 

[pop_54]

Re: Re: Re: Re: NON CONSENT FANTASY

Bumpity bump.

Bringing it back up, as it's why and how I eventually got to D/s. And while I don't think it's part of D/s, anymore than say, scat, it does seem to be a sub- or related fetish, as part of the control issue. There was also a thread on roleplaying this but it's in how-to.

Anyone else interested in this?

More bumpity bump I like a bit of bumpity bump myself

Hey Phoenix... just read your profile ... fancy imagining you and me with a Mars bar

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Roleplay ideas anyone, or other ways of working this one?

Hi cellis and others,

Have you played this one out any more?

I think it's partly the fear (which is hardish to do with a longtime relationship) adrenaline, partly the unknown aspect, the focus and intent (hard to get the right words for this part) like that shark of AA's, partly the what I want is irrelevant factor of control.

In my fantasies -- (warning: very non-SSC) --

First intensity point is the shock of entry and limits being breached, next intensity point is that it's unending, relentless. Next intensity point is the subject gets 'turned,' switches to first not fighting, then next intensity point, allowing, then next intensity point -- welcoming, and last intensity point -- seeking out, even to her own humiliation. Anyone interested in discussion how this works for them, or whatever? (Those who have this fetish, of course.)

(Ps. Adding Mars bars would be a whole other sub-fetish, wouldn't it?)

 

[fallon2]

Might I add

A blindfold at times can lend itself well to the situation!

 

[John Doe]

I am so totally there.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I don't know how well-recieved it is for me to say, but sure... I've had rape-fantasies as long as I've had fantasies at all.

I don't particularly encourage them. I'm not a very violent person, despite my hobbies. But, yeah, it is a certain fantasy for me to take a woman, unconsensually, by force.

 

[Tanuki]

In your fantasies, does the woman enjoy it, does she initially resist, but surrender later? If so, i think you're pretty normal. If your fantasy is to cause her pain and take something precious from her, you're a little less normal. But since you're on this site instead of hanging out in dark alleys, you're probably well adjusted.

I don't know how well-recieved it is for me to say, but sure... I've had rape-fantasies as long as I've had fantasies at all.

I don't particularly encourage them. I'm not a very violent person, despite my hobbies. But, yeah, it is a certain fantasy for me to take a woman, unconsensually, by force.

 

[Joe Wordsworth]

I dunno... its mostly irrelevant, I think. (not the issue, but why I haven't an answer). Its not about her participation, at all.

But, I don't think I /could/ rape someone, regardless the fantasy. Just thought it helpful for those sort of thinking about the whole thing to know that some people really do have them.

 

[hobbit.]

some interesting reading.

 

[Lancecastor]

I think about rape scenes as being one of many points on a scale....like a slider on a mixing board governing which turntable is heard.

To the far left is the whole Cinderella/handsome prince on white horsey sweeping her off her feet romantic fairytale, in which the grrl swoons, falling into the arms of her lover and he carries her off to his castle where they live happily ever after.

Push it to the right a bit....the charming, handsome well dressed man in a niteclub who can dance, has lots of money, says all the right things, has a porsche, a cool pad and makes you feel desired when his hands slide over your ass.


Further still...the guy who manipulates you with shame, fear, guilt...into bed quickly where he bangs you long and hard like a toy drum...discards you...picks you up again...but you love it because of the uncertainty as to what he'll do next and you love the sex.

Nearer the right...you get the idea.

The point is that western culture has always programmed women to become excited at being swept up, taken, ravished, ravaged, and raped.

This is why rape victims have such a difficult time resolving the conflicting emotions they feel over having been raped.

So, as a fantasy, rape is part of our cultural reality.

All you need to do as a man to push the slider over is grab your woman's ass, hard, when she's at the kitchen sink, pull her hands back and hold them there, lift her skirt and fuck her wordlessly with her face near the dishwater sometime. Her programming will rise quickly to the surface and she'll cum hard and fast.

Or at least, they do for me.

 

[Mistress Lady X]

I think it's a fantasy that a great many women have.

It could be seen as complete submission on the womans part, the desire being to satisfy a partner and be satisfied; completely. This is why for most people it falls into the realm of BDSM.

How many women are quite open about likeing being tied up during sex? Be it fluffy handcuffs or leather cuffs? Isn't that submission in one of it's more simple forms? Even straight up Vanilla practioners tend to go for that, even if they don't realise it.

But what about men wanting to be ravished? So far in this thread it's all been women. Does the fantasy work when the gender roles are switched?

 

[Lancecastor]

Does the fantasy work when the gender roles are switched?

No, that's just sick.

Being a Dominatrix is prohibited by federal law in the USA, and rightly so.

It sullies the natural order.

 

[Tanuki]

The point is that western culture has always programmed women to become excited at being swept up, taken, ravished, ravaged, and raped.

This is why rape victims have such a difficult time resolving the conflicting emotions they feel over having been raped.

Can you think of any specifics in our culture that program women for that? I can't.

And I don't think rape victims have conflicting emotions at all, since usually there is no pleasure or arousal at all.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

The point is that western culture has always programmed women to become excited at being swept up, taken, ravished, ravaged, and raped.

I agree about the points on the scale, though I'd probably draw mine differently.

And about western culture programming women to be sexually passive. (Isn't this true of eastern as well? Are there cultures that Haven't done this?

This is why rape victims have such a difficult time resolving the conflicting emotions they feel over having been raped.

But assuming I'm interpreting your point here correctly, completely disagree with it. The women I've know well felt much like I did. That we were supposed to magically be able to defend ourselves if we really didn't want. This is something we are also sold culturally. That 'good' will always win. Bad things don't happen to good people etc. That we are supposed to die to defend our 'virtue.' Or die afterwards if said virtue wasn't defendable, and dieing at the time wasn't given as an option. It wasn't until I took a Really good street-fighting self defense class that I realized that I wasn't able to fight 'em off because I hadn't had a clue how to fight well.

So, as a fantasy, rape is part of our cultural reality.

Important to me to reiterate here, that the real thing is diff from fantasy, just as getting you ass kicked by the real Mike Tyson is surely different from whatever fantasy you might enjoy, or between giving your money to charity and having it stolen or... I'll think of better analogy some day.

Have said before: one of the worst things about being raped is that it ruins a perfectly good fantasy.

(If you let it. And I don't consent to That, either.)

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Does the fantasy work when the gender roles are switched?

Works for me! I'm a woman but my fantasies are more like movies, without me in them. I can also get off on men being raped. (What can I say, I'm a real sicko.) Trying to change my fantasies to involve my husband, for instance, best I could do was imagining him being raped. Worked, but I felt too guilty to keep it. The people in my fantasies are blurry and non-specific -- very much creatures of fantasy.
It's more the process, I think, than who perp and object are. But live penetration seems to be important for me, so women arent as able to do it actively for me. Best I can do is have them take some unwilling male away from a outraged spouse, thus creating 2 vics, or for a while it worked to imagine a woman deciding to 'take' a guy who hated her, by exciting him against his will.

Like I think, Joe, in most of my fantasies, what the 'object' thinks of the precedings is irrelevant. Sometimes unwilling, sometimes kinda blank. Just depends. I like variety.

It's about something else for me, I think. Permeation of boundaries or something.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

All you need to do as a man to push the slider over is grab your woman's ass, hard, when she's at the kitchen sink, pull her hands back and hold them there, lift her skirt and fuck her wordlessly with her face near the dishwater sometime. Her programming will rise quickly to the surface and she'll cum hard and fast.

Or at least, they do for me.

Will add it to the list!

She's making a list, he's checking it twice, we're gonna find out who's naughty or.... Tra la la!

 

[confused20]

Does it work in Reverse?

I know a young bisexual man very closely that has a definite "Ravishment fantasy."

In his relationships with other men he only allows himself to be the Top, and tends to enjoy switching roles w/ his female partners. However he has expressed on a number of occasions to being wildly turned on by the idea of having another man force him into submitting and being fucked. The only stipulation he puts on it is that while it is forced, it isn't so mean or violent that it hurts, but is more of a forced submission and a forced enjoyment of it.

So yeah, some may say he's pre-disposed for it becuase he already likes other men, but it still qualifies as a "Ravishment fantasy" to me.


On my end, it is the being forced to do it , but especially being forced to like it in the end; despite ojections, despite humiliations, and without the possibility of guilt over "letting it happen."

The other thrill is fighting, really fighting to keep it from happening, but knowing that the person doing it won't stop. Thank heavens for safe words yeah?

*Posting again. Feels alot like coming home, but only after your parents have rented your room out to some foreign exchange student, and you now sleep on the air mattress in the den*

 

[TXappeal]

Long time ago

when the AOL chats just appeared I became online friends with an "old" woman (mid-50s).
There was no sex talk involved, just a friendly online relationship that was evolving until the point that we were chatting almost every day.
One day she mentioned that she was raped when she was 16 and that, besides her parents who were deceased, nobody, not even her husband knew. I was very supportive when she told me and though of the issue as things that you confess when you are developing a meaningful frienship, especially if it is sheltered by annonymity.

It happened that she mentioned it again at a later time. So we talked about how she felt, and how she feels now, about the guilt, etc.
When she mentioned it again I started asking questions (which I normally do not do because I believe in giving people their own space when they tell about these kind of situations).
Over time the conversation about the rape flourished again, and again.

She told me there were 6 men, she was with a female friend. They took turns 3 and 3 with each one of them. She had never had anal sex (yes vaginal), her friend was completely virgin. I kept asking more and more questions, always in a tactful manner.
She told me that they were drunk, but didn't hit them, just held them down and penetrated them vaginally and anally. She described how her friend cried, but she didn't.

I started bringing up the subject (was not the only topic of conversation) and also I started realizing that I liked to talk about it. To ask questions, to hear the story over and over again.
One time, she told me that "this must be boring to you", which I replied (to my surprise) that "no, I like to talk about this with you", to what she didn't say anything so we kept talking.

by this stage we were in the period where you start talking over the phone. we didn't mentioned the rape right away, but one day I asked something about it and for the first time I heard the story literally: from her voice.

I remember that I got very excited and I ended up masturbating at the end of our conversation. so I kept asking during our phone encounters, and she kept answering, giving details: how hard they were? "they were like a rock", she used to say. did it hurt? "not my pussy, buy my ass was hurting a lot", things like that. I started masturbating in silence as she was telling me the story.

Finally I asked is she enjoyed it. she told me she was not sure, she was definitely wet although she don't know if she orgasmed.
I asked if she wanted to be raped again to what she said "yes".

I told her I was very horny, she told me she was too, we ended up masturbating over the phone. And we did this day after day. The boldness of the conversation and the voltage language started to increase. We talked about how I was going to rape her and where. She asked me if I wanted to be rape to what I replied: "yes, by you, with a dildo" "Get one!" she answered. So I did.

Days after, she directed me over the phone on how to penetrate myself with a dildo. First gently, then ordering me. I used to cum rivers. We also talked a lot about other very exciting practices and topics that do not pertaint o this thread)

For those things of life (family illnesses, schedules, etc.) we are not in contact anymore. I always wondered if her story was real or not. I've never wanted to ask (I think I want it to be real)

those are my 2 cents.

 

[SubmissiveDove5]

"Have said before: one of the worst things about being raped is that it ruins a perfectly good fantasy."

Yes, I know from expeience. I am also a rape victim.

 

[bridgeburner]

Tanuki,

If your fantasy is to cause her pain and take something precious from her, you're a little less normal.

I don't know that this is so and I'm not sure why you would assume so. I mean, I know it isn't PC to admit to fantasizing about causing pain or humiliation or distress to another being, but that doesn't mean that those fantasies aren't as common as any others.


Joe Wordsworth,

Its not about her participation, at all.

Most of my fantasies are like this as well. I don't imagine myself in the place of the woman, she doesn't really speak, she's mainly an object in my fantasies. It may be odder for me to fantasize this way than for you since I'm a chick, but it is what it is.


Lancecastor,

The point is that western culture has always programmed women to become excited at being swept up, taken, ravished, ravaged, and raped.

As Phoenix pointed out I can't think of any major cultures in which this is not the case. I think it's a biological thing. The female has to be assured that the male she allows to mate with her is at least as strong as she is --- if he can't overpower her then what good is he against other males?

Now, that's all very simplistic, but seeing how widespread the fantasy is across wildly differing cultures I'd say it's part of our animal nature that we're trying to appease.



-B

 

[Safphyre]

"Have said before: one of the worst things about being raped is that it ruins a perfectly good fantasy."

Yes, I know from expeience. I am also a rape victim.

I have read and re read this thread and I have trouble with it for many reasons ...

I feel as though I SHOULD feel the same way you do Dove ...however I too am a victim of rape and I have no problem with this fantasy in the boundaries of a secure D/s realtionship ...but maybe that is exactly why ... I am basing it on an existing relationship.

Currently I am in no relationship so the thought of it is terrifying becasue I relate it to violence ... thinking of it in terms of a realtionship ...I think of it in terms of a fantasy......mmmmmmmmm...

 

[Tanuki]

Tanuki,



I don't know that this is so and I'm not sure why you would assume so. I mean, I know it isn't PC to admit to fantasizing about causing pain or humiliation or distress to another being, but that doesn't mean that those fantasies aren't as common as any others.

Ah, my tongue is firmly in my cheek, but you can't see that online. Normal is a relative term, but I would say I do think fantasies of causing pain are probably less common, even on this board!

 

[bridgeburner]

Ah, my tongue is firmly in my cheek, but you can't see that online. Normal is a relative term, but I would say I do think fantasies of causing pain are probably less common, even on this board!

I'm just having a cynical day where I'm convinced that most people are meaner underneath than they can generally get aways with in public. Venal, frustrated and full of petty malice.

-B

 

[Netzach]

I think it's a biological thing. The female has to be assured that the male she allows to mate with her is at least as strong as she is --- if he can't overpower her then what good is he against other males?
-B

Laundry, garbage, cooking, wines, cunnilingus, conversation, film, companionship, crosswords, stays erect longer, multisyllabic words, metaphors, similies, says thanks and please, litter box trained....oh I could go on.

I've tried, God knows. I believe in the incorrect and murky sexual fantasy and mine usually involves me licking blood off an erect cock, or wrapping my hands around an adam's apple and saying "good night, Mister." Those are my creepy dare I admit to this thought thoughts.

For as long as I can remember having sexual fantasies, the men in them have been passive, masochistic, stalwart, he-men. Big bruisers who will let me do whatever outragerous shit I want. When other girls waxed poetic about being taken I drew a blank. If someone grabbed me with any seriousness while I was doing dishes he would be drinking Dawn.

But maybe it is a biological imperative and my lack of rape-ravishment interest is analagous to the fact that thoughts of being pregnant make me violently pukey rather than sentimental and squeaky. I must not be cut out for this reproductive mess.