The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

[zipman]

Richard,

I think you are really over-reacting to this issue. While I do not favor this change, I think that all the hysterics and melodrama is only making it worse.

If you have faound a site that is more welcoming and where you feel safer, then I wish you the best!

This childish spectacle is a lot worse than the creation of the sub-forum.

 

[catalina_francisco]

PS: I am trying to find out if I can move my thread intact to some other place on the internet .... I no longer feel safe here and have found a more welcoming board

Richard maybe you can post a link here to the new board you are going to. I know that a lot of us enjoy reading your thread.

Francisco.

 

[FungiUg]

shacking my head here

Please! Shaking, not shacking! If you really wanna shack your head, let me know and I'll steal my flatmate's hammer and some nails to help out.

1) it divides the community
2) it endorces abuse
3) it has harmed the trust that many of us had

1. yes, it divides the community. In an arbitrary fashion no-less. But it is not difficult, impossible, or even a hardship to go from one area to the other. So the division is kind of like a chalk line. Unless you are a chicken (er, that's not an insult, chickens have problems with lines on the ground, really!) then you can just step over...

2. How does it endorse abuse? It's a bold claim, Richard, but I don't see how it follows. I've already posted another message about "free speech" vs. "discouraging abuse." Which do you want, more moderation, or less?

3. It has harmed the trust... really? Really truely? A small change to create a section where we can yakk about anything our little hearts desire has hurt our trust? Or do you mean the way it was done (in an arbitrary, non-consultative fashion?) Personally, I see this as a posting board. A place to discuss ideas, and have a bit of a flirt and gossip. I don't see it as an issue of trust.

shall I go on?

Please do! I have read your posts, worry not. But I have yet to see a positive, constructive criticism. How would you suggest we fix the issue of (as you describe it) "bullying"?

 

[catalina_francisco]

Please! Shaking, not shacking! If you really wanna shack your head, let me know and I'll steal my flatmate's hammer and some nails to help out.



1. yes, it divides the community.

A small change to create a section where we can yakk about anything our little hearts desire has hurt our trust? Or do you mean the way it was done (in an arbitrary, non-consultative fashion?) Personally, I see this as a posting board. A place to discuss ideas, and have a bit of a flirt and gossip. I don't see it as an issue of trust.

Has already seriously divided when we begin picking minor grammatical errors of those we have respected and communicated with on friendly terms to date....shades of how this all began.

As for a section to yak about anything...we basically had that as far as I could see until some people from elsewhere decided to interfere and then return to whence they came to brag about their childish exploits.

Catalina

 

[lark sparrow]

Re: Re: Re: The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

It's actually an old way to handle familiar problems. See my post on MissTaken's thread. You should do a little research on the birth of the Playground. It wasn't always there! That was also Laurel's idea, as far as I know.

Give the woman a chance. It is her board, and I'm sure she is trying to make it a great place for all of you. On the other hand, PM her with your concerns and see what happens.

Cheyenne,

I don't care about your posts or the Playground. Please see that I consider you a pest, who only appears at the BDSM forum to stir crap, lay judgement, and say I told you so... I'm not impressed. If you develop an interest in BDSM, perhaps this opinion will change - until then your opinion or knowledge is of very little interest to me.

Thank you

 

[FungiUg]

Has already seriously divided when we begin picking minor grammatical errors of those we have respected and communicated with on friendly terms to date....shades of how this all began.

Oh shush! I was teasing him... any excuse to tease is a good excuse! (besides, every time he says he is "shacking his head" I get this mental image of him walking around with this run-down, ramshackle house on his head!)

As for a section to yak about anything...we basically had that as far as I could see until some people from elsewhere decided to interfere and then return to whence they came to brag about their childish exploits.

We did, and we do. Nothing has changed there. What has been done separates the "serious stuff" from the "not so serious stuff". And to be honest, I think the tacit admission that it's okay and acceptable to yakk about anything, BDSM oriented or not, may improve our community!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

Cheyenne,

I don't care about your posts or the Playground. Please see that I consider you a pest, who only appears at the BDSM forum to stir crap, lay judgement, and say I told you so... I'm not impressed. If you develop an interest in BDSM, perhaps this opinion will change - until then your opinion or knowledge is of very little interest to me.

Thank you

Mmmmm...I'm sure there are many D's who would love a few moments to show her why she doesn't want to flirt with BDSM at this present moment....even some subs perhaps who are getting their first stirrings of a sadistic nature!! LOL Maybe we could persuade her to see another viewpointn and develop some self respect.

Catalina

 

[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

Mmmmm...I'm sure there are many D's who would love a few moments to show her why she doesn't want to flirt with BDSM at this present moment....even some subs perhaps who are getting their first stirrings of a sadistic nature!! LOL Maybe we could persuade her to see another viewpointn and develop some self respect.

Catalina

I tried to get ger to 'fess up to wanting to be my slut on my birthday thread... but so far, no joy. Oh well.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Oh shush! I was teasing him... any excuse to tease is a good excuse! (besides, every time he says he is "shacking his head" I get this mental image of him walking around with this run-down, ramshackle house on his head!)



We did, and we do. Nothing has changed there. What has been done separates the "serious stuff" from the "not so serious stuff". And to be honest, I think the tacit admission that it's okay and acceptable to yakk about anything, BDSM oriented or not, may improve our community!

Can't see how you improve on something you already had by duplicating it except now it is to be judged, divided, compartmentalised for us. Last time I looked I was far from being a child who needed someone overseeing my choices and activites. Guess I will never be rid of my severe dislike of censorship which I feel is far too overstated where I come from, and suspect as NZ is not that different from Oz, it is the same there. Is so nice to now be in an environment where that is less pronounced and tolerence is not just a fashionable word.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

I tried to get ger to 'fess up to wanting to be my slut on my birthday thread... but so far, no joy. Oh well.

Man you're a Gemini......keep persisting!!! We never quit.

 

[FungiUg]

Can't see how you improve on something you already had by duplicating it except now it is to be judged, divided, compartmentalised for us. Last time I looked I was far from being a child who needed someone overseeing my choices and activites. Guess I will never be rid of my severe dislike of censorship which I feel is far too overstated where I come from, and suspect as NZ is not that different from Oz, it is the same there. Is so nice to now be in an environment where that is less pronounced and tolerence is not just a fashionable word.

Censorship is a bad word here, yes. The separate board doesn't discourage censorhip.

Interesting that you should bring that up though. One of the ways we have learnt to deal with the issue of censorship is to use a system of "rating". Movies, books and so on are given "ratings" which indicate their level of violence, language and sexual content. That's a working compromise around the censorship issue.

And strangely enough, what have we here? A seperate area for "fluff" posting. Think of it as a rating, to avoid having to censor...

 

[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

Man you're a Gemini......keep persisting!!! We never quit.

I doubt she even read the reply... she only came in to shit-stir!

 

[catalina_francisco]

Censorship is a bad word here, yes. The separate board doesn't discourage censorhip.

Interesting that you should bring that up though. One of the ways we have learnt to deal with the issue of censorship is to use a system of "rating". Movies, books and so on are given "ratings" which indicate their level of violence, language and sexual content. That's a working compromise around the censorship issue.

And strangely enough, what have we here? A seperate area for "fluff" posting. Think of it as a rating, to avoid having to censor...

Think you missed the point....I am not in favour of censorship whether you call it ratings or not, except the sexual exploitation of children and snuff. We have ratings in Oz too....but also are not allowed to view any movie with watersports (oh well they blur out the action) or BDSM such as whipping, caning, etc. To me I don't think adults need to have another adult decide what is harmful for them, especially as they watch the flicks for 8 hours a day with no apparent damage to themselves!!

No need to ask why one of their own now heads the porn industry....and well too despite restictions meaning we now should only watch mild sex for our own good. I also think it ironic that in Australia, all the things considered bad for the rest of the community, (pot, porn etc.) have been legal in the nation's capital for eons. Tends to smack too much of double standards to me, as does this issue in many respects.

Catalina

 

[FungiUg]

Think you missed the point....I am not in favour of censorship whether you call it ratings or not, except the sexual exploitation of children and snuff.

So movies of ritual mutilation are okay? Torture?

However, in a way, you've shot your own argument in the foot. The fact that you have an exception at all requires ratings. And ratings aren't just about censorship -- they're a way of enabling the viewer to make an informed decision before they view the content. Would you take your (hypothetical) 5 year old to movie rathed age 20+? Even though it cotains nothing objectionable for you?

 

[catalina_francisco]

So movies of ritual mutilation are okay? Torture?

However, in a way, you've shot your own argument in the foot. The fact that you have an exception at all requires ratings. And ratings aren't just about censorship -- they're a way of enabling the viewer to make an informed decision before they view the content. Would you take your (hypothetical) 5 year old to movie rathed age 20+? Even though it cotains nothing objectionable for you?

Honey, as I am not a brainless idiot I tend to have an idea of what a movie is about before I see it or take my children to it. I don't particularly always agree with their age ratings, is all very subjective and based on an interpretation of a government body to decide for me what I or my children are able to withstand the effects of. As history has shown with the likes of Hitler etc., censorship is an effective way of ensuring your right to rule with an iron fist and apply your standards to all.

The only problem is, those that usually decide these things do so for others and choose to not apply those same rules to themselves as they seem to think they are special and above the likes of the rest of us. So as to your question about my choice to take my child to a movie, like you are so fond of saying, I am not a sheep (a NZ thing perhaps?) and don't need to bow to the big right wing brotherhood in complete reverence begging to be told what is suitable and what is not. I have a brain, I have a choice....despite all their efforts to eradicate them.

 

[FungiUg]

Honey, as I am not a brainless idiot.

No argument there!!! I wouldn't be having half as much fun arguing with you if that were the case!

I tend to have an idea of what a movie is about before I see it or take my children to it. I don't particularly always agree with their age ratings, is all very subjective and based on an interpretation of a government body to decide for me what I or my children are able to withstand the effects of. As history has shown with the likes of Hitler etc., censorship is an effective way of ensuring your right to rule with an iron fist and apply your standards to all.

No argument there either. We're not sheep, and we make informed decisions. The rating system is one way of doing that though, and I have seen parents use it constructively.

I hate censorship. It was my personal hell as a child. I personally would rather give a child access to everything I don't find objectionable, and take the time to explain the bits that were... um... a little out of the ordinary. But then, that's the classic "swing of the pendulum" back the other way, and the better way is probably more somewhere in the middle.

The only problem is, those that usually decide these things do so for others and choose to not apply those same rules to themselves as they seem to think they are special and above the likes of the rest of us. So as to your question about my choice to take my child to a movie, like you are so fond of saying, I am not a sheep (a NZ thing perhaps?) and don't need to bow to the big right wing brotherhood in complete reverence begging to be told what is suitable and what is not. I have a brain, I have a choice....despite all their efforts to eradicate them.

Well, I'm not quite so paranoid that society is trying to eradicate my brain. But perhaps that's the difference between NZ and Australia?

I agree with you 100%. At the same time, I can also see the benefit of a rating system. Here, the rating system is just that, and it's only enforced in the case of under-age children buying drugs, alcohol, going into adult rated movies, buying adult literature. As an adult, you can use or ignore the rating system at your leisure.

And... while not perfect, I can't argue with the benifits.

There are other benign rating systems though. For example, if I go into a bookstore, I look for SF and Fantasy. It's a labelling or rating system if you like, purely there for my benefit. On the other hand, it's not always right.

 

[Arden]

Six or eight months ago, you didn't see all this flirty BS on the BDSM boards. You know what? There was a BDSM flirt thread opened by Ms Worthy on the Playground for that purpose. From what I understood, flirting wasn't wanted at BDSM.

I've watched the atmosphere change at BDSM since that time. Serious threads turned into individual playgrounds by flirting. You have to scroll pages, sometimes, to find the next decent post pertaining to the thread topic.

I don't mind seeing that stuff gone. If nothing else, for the sake of the thread starter who wanted others to share thoughts on the chosen topic.

I don't know whether it is right or wrong to split it into two boards, but I don't see any harm either. There's no need to stress over something so minor as another forum.

If you don't like what you see, turn the channel. How hard is that?

 

[Quint]

The most irrelevant point that keeps getting pulled up is that "this never would have happened if not for the outsiders who came in, stirred shit up, and left." Lather, rinse, repeat.

Fact is, it's done. And much like nobody can "steal" a boyfriend that isn't ready to be stolen, nobody comes in and makes a bunch of shit appear out of mid-air. The tension was already here. Whether or not you saw it is the thing. There were problems before these people returned/visited, and the fact that they're outsiders doesn't make their words any less valid. To treat them as if they are is the worst kind of elitist bullshit.

The rest of my thoughts are in Etoile's post.

 

[Cheyenne]

Re: Re: Re: Re: The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

Cheyenne,

I don't care about your posts or the Playground. Please see that I consider you a pest, who only appears at the BDSM forum to stir crap, lay judgement, and say I told you so... I'm not impressed. If you develop an interest in BDSM, perhaps this opinion will change - until then your opinion or knowledge is of very little interest to me.

Thank you

Ah, so only the opinions of YOUR OWN KIND matter here? If you aren't into bdsm, you aren't worth listening to? Is that it? How does that make you any better than the Mainstream people you seem to dislike so much for judging you?

Lucky for you that Laurel doesn't take the same approach with bdsm people as a group. You'd have NO board to worry about, much less a discussion on whether one or two boards was better.

 

[lark sparrow]

Seriously, I think many of you would LIKE the GB as long as you use the ignore button freely (I do.) We have our share of assholes, no doubt about it. But it is a great place to discuss just about anything you can think of.

That is a bit of advice I shall take.

Cheyenne This person is on your Ignore List.

 

[Zaudika]

PSS: Miss T endorced abuse publically by calling it free speech

Richard,
I've read a lot of your posts. I've enjoyed a lot of your posts.
However, I have to agree with a couple others who've said I think you're being wrong in your constant harassing and posting.
You seem to be contridicting<sp> exactly what you're saying, because it looks to me that you're being a bully yourself.

1) You've called people names.
2) You're posting negative things about MissT in every thread you can.

It's hard for me to believe in or agree with anything you might say when you're doing exactly what you're saying not to.

 

[Master_Vassago]

bottom line is no one is forced to post here there or anywhere. If you don't like it, well don't come back seems like a simple solution.

 

[catalina_francisco]

bottom line is no one is forced to post here there or anywhere. If you don't like it, well don't come back seems like a simple solution.

This seems like a simple solution of course. If you do not like what is happening here just go away. Follow the crowd, be part of the crowd or piss off. Is basically what you are saying. To hear that in a BDSM forum is really sad.

Last time I looked this forum was made of individuals who each had their own opinion and liked discussing it. If you like reading the opinions of others, if you enjoy a good discussion then you have to accept that those persons will not agree with you. If not well then this forum is going to change quickly into a forum of sheep not individuals.

Whenever I see injustice, whenever I see something that I consider oppression I react by giving my opinion. To say just go away, I do not like what you are saying, is very short-sighted. And by the way we tried that and the result was that our forum has been split through the middle.

Yes I have the option to just ignore it, but to ignore and leave and post elsewhere I would be silently agreeing with something that I find repelling. It would mean that I would just have to accept being part of a dictatorship. In a democracy we have freedom of speech; we have the liberty to protest against injustices whenever we see it.

I do not intend just to play dead whenever something happens that I do not like.

Francisco

 

[catalina_francisco]

Fact is, it's done. And much like nobody can "steal" a boyfriend that isn't ready to be stolen, nobody comes in and makes a bunch of shit appear out of mid-air. The tension was already here. Whether or not you saw it is the thing. There were problems before these people returned/visited, and the fact that they're outsiders doesn't make their words any less valid. To treat them as if they are is the worst kind of elitist bullshit.

The rest of my thoughts are in Etoile's post.

Elitist? Yes you are aren't you? Seems to me it is a repeat of the historic injustices of whites telling blacks how and if they will live, straights telling gays how and if they should live, and men oppressing women for their own interests. So in come the outsiders to tell the BDSM community how it should and will be done, and we then in true style bow and scrape at their feet in gratitude and wonder for the time they have bestowed us out of their busy schedule to impart their wise, benevolent knowledge born from their wonderful 'civilised' and 'right' vanilla lives.

Hell I didn't realise I needed someone to do that for me...thought I could be individual and part of a community that practiced what they preached without oppressing anyone else, or pushing their own choices onto them....after all we are now in the 21st century aren't we, not the 18th? I would like to suggest to those who cry change is good and let's accept it and shut up that they practise what they loudly support. Change is good...we are in a new century so how about we instigate change that respects the rights of people to live peacefully and noninvasive in the way they see fit, not fight to keep the oppressions of the previous times.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Richard,
I've read a lot of your posts. I've enjoyed a lot of your posts.
However, I have to agree with a couple others who've said I think you're being wrong in your constant harassing and posting.
You seem to be contridicting<sp> exactly what you're saying, because it looks to me that you're being a bully yourself.

1) You've called people names.
2) You're posting negative things about MissT in every thread you can.

It's hard for me to believe in or agree with anything you might say when you're doing exactly what you're saying not to.

Welcome to the forum...don't recall ever seing you here before though perhaps you just never choose to comment on anything, effectively not actively participating....strange though how many new people who are obviously longterm Lit members are popping up here suddenly. Sure must be heartwarming for those who are having trouble finding the right sub/D...now there are PLENTY of newbies just dying to be part of the fun!!!

As to bullying...my understanding is a bully pushes their beliefs and choices on to others irrespective of their wants and needs. Richard in my observation is reflecting the opinion of many regulars on the BDSM forum who have a vested interest, not just pop in to watch the fireworks then run off snickering like small children. How pathetic. Thought freedom to stand up for what you believe in and fight to protect it's authenticity and autonomy was something to be respected as heroic and honourable. Trouble is honour is not an understood or practiced entity in today's mainstream society who have bowed down under the pressure of those who rule and bully through oppressive capitalism.

Catalina