The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

[Cheyenne]

Elitist? Yes you are aren't you? Seems to me it is a repeat of the historic injustices of whites telling blacks how and if they will live, straights telling gays how and if they should live, and men oppressing women for their own interests. So in come the outsiders to tell the BDSM community how it should and will be done, and we then in true style bow and scrape at their feet in gratitude and wonder for the time they have bestowed us out of their busy schedule to impart their wise, benevolent knowledge born from their wonderful 'civilised' and 'right' vanilla lives.

Hell I didn't realise I needed someone to do that for me...thought I could be individual and part of a community that practiced what they preached without oppressing anyone else, or pushing their own choices onto them....after all we are now in the 21st century aren't we, not the 18th? I would like to suggest to those who cry change is good and let's accept it and shut up that they practise what they loudly support. Change is good...we are in a new century so how about we instigate change that respects the rights of people to live peacefully and noninvasive in the way they see fit, not fight to keep the oppressions of the previous times.

Catalina

You have GOT to be kidding. I haven't said anything about the frequent use of the word "oppression" until now but you people are really hilarious. It is a bulletin board, for God's sake. This isnt' international relations, it isn't prejudice, it is nothing at all to do with civil rights and REAL oppression. How is Laurel giving you get another option to talk about anything you want oppressive in ANY way? Do you realize how silly you sound talking about a new board as being oppression?

You're still stuck on the "outsiders" theory. Try again. Your community HAD these problems which Laurel was already addressing long before MissT deleted/moved Lance's attack thread.

 

[Zaudika]

Welcome to the forum...don't recall ever seing you here before though perhaps you just never choose to comment on anything, effectively not actively participating....strange though how many new people who are obviously longterm Lit members are popping up here suddenly. Sure must be heartwarming for those who are having trouble finding the right sub/D...now there are PLENTY of newbies just dying to be part of the fun!!!

As to bullying...my understanding is a bully pushes their beliefs and choices on to others irrespective of their wants and needs. Richard in my observation is reflecting the opinion of many regulars on the BDSM forum who have a vested interest, not just pop in to watch the fireworks then run off snickering like small children. How pathetic. Thought freedom to stand up for what you believe in and fight to protect it's authenticity and autonomy was something to be respected as heroic and honourable. Trouble is honour is not an understood or practiced entity in today's mainstream society who have bowed down under the pressure of those who rule and bully through oppressive capitalism.

Catalina

Thanks for the welcome. But it is not needed. I have been here a long time, and I have posted a great deal. This includes both starting threads about strong BDSM subjects, and contributing to ones about such. Though I'm sure there's some "fluff" threads I've posted to also, just for the fact of saying so since i know if I don't someone will go pull every thread I've posted to. So please, your attitude about saying that i'm a newbie that wants to join in the fun.. lose it. I'm not. And I might add that those newbies that you're talking about. Are a lot of the reason that this forum even exists and was created in the first place. So people could learn the lifestyle.
Anyway... I have avoided posting as much recently because of all the fluff and bullshit that's started on the main forum. Which is why I support this split so strongly.
Oh the same note though Catalina. I've never seen you post even close to this much. You've gotten your back up, and now you're determined to drive your point as much as you can.
I, like everyone else was sharing my opinion, and telling Richard how I felt about his comments. You're doing endless amounts of doing this yourself. So don't be a hypocrit and attack me in any form by expressing my opinion towards Richards posts.

And I already know... a very long winded response saying, I'm wrong, this is whats wrong with me, you have this issue, and this is the reason this board is a mistake.

 

[Chicklet]

Re: Re: Re: The Playground with Kink? Is that what we want??

It's actually an old way to handle familiar problems. See my post on MissTaken's thread. You should do a little research on the birth of the Playground. It wasn't always there! That was also Laurel's idea, as far as I know.

Give the woman a chance. It is her board, and I'm sure she is trying to make it a great place for all of you. On the other hand, PM her with your concerns and see what happens.

I have to side with this.

The forum is new, the forum is young. Shouldn't we give it a chance, really? If Laurel thinks it's a good idea, it probably is! The woman has had some good ideas in the past.

I love the Author's Hangout, and recently it's been cluttered with purely chatty threads that have nothing to do with writing. I love the people on the board, but it can get frustrating. Personally, I wish that we had a second forum that we all could go to chat on.

Give this forum time, and shape it to be what you want it to be. It's in its crucial stage. If all the people that make the BDSM forum so wonderful never come here, then this forum will suffer.

-Chicklet

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thanks for the welcome. But it is not needed. I have been here a long time, and I have posted a great deal. This includes both starting threads about strong BDSM subjects, and contributing to ones about such. Though I'm sure there's some "fluff" threads I've posted to also, just for the fact of saying so since i know if I don't someone will go pull every thread I've posted to. So please, your attitude about saying that i'm a newbie that wants to join in the fun.. lose it. I'm not. And I might add that those newbies that you're talking about. Are a lot of the reason that this forum even exists and was created in the first place. So people could learn the lifestyle.
Anyway... I have avoided posting as much recently because of all the fluff and bullshit that's started on the main forum. Which is why I support this split so strongly.
Oh the same note though Catalina. I've never seen you post even close to this much. You've gotten your back up, and now you're determined to drive your point as much as you can.
I, like everyone else was sharing my opinion, and telling Richard how I felt about his comments. You're doing endless amounts of doing this yourself. So don't be a hypocrit and attack me in any form by expressing my opinion towards Richards posts.

And I already know... a very long winded response saying, I'm wrong, this is whats wrong with me, you have this issue, and this is the reason this board is a mistake.

I am so sorry you feel necessary to attack, but to date I had not seen you here and assumed perhaps you were new from other realms of Lit as so many are right now...is beginning to resemble a fairground. I am sorry you feel we have not contributed substantially until this fiasco, let's call it for what it is, but as you have been a longtime frequent visitor to the forum, you will have seen our postings have been frequent and existent and very noticed for some time now, both serious 'strong' threads, and yes I have also introduced threads (is easy to do, just the press of a key) and posted on the 'fluff' threads as the trendy term seems to be for the moment.

So why were there no postings from us between joining Lit and this year before you ask?....well you see I have a life and during that time I was travelling back and forth across the globe finalising my life in one country to move to the opposite hemisphere and side of the globe, a humungous task when selling property, arranging shipping, attending to business, and also family arrangements ....most regulars here are aware of this through our regular postings and sharing.

At this point in time though I feel there is a need for everyone to express their feelings and when I see something I wish to comment on, or see someone I have come to know and respect being singled out in what was unfair observations IMHO, I feel I have the right, the same as anyone else with a vested interest in this board and the BDSM community does, to comment. I am sure you have also seen that I have voiced my opinion that this has been the result of many thinking silence was the way to deal with the issues and they would go away, only to wake up yesterday and find the trust they had placed had been abused in the manner it has...so why would I see now that silence is the answer? History repeatedly shows us silence is tantamount to approval and 9.99 times out of 10 is acted on accordingly.

Catalina

 

[Master_Vassago]

This seems like a simple solution of course. If you do not like what is happening here just go away. Follow the crowd, be part of the crowd or piss off. Is basically what you are saying. To hear that in a BDSM forum is really sad.

Last time I looked this forum was made of individuals who each had their own opinion and liked discussing it. If you like reading the opinions of others, if you enjoy a good discussion then you have to accept that those persons will not agree with you. If not well then this forum is going to change quickly into a forum of sheep not individuals.

Whenever I see injustice, whenever I see something that I consider oppression I react by giving my opinion. To say just go away, I do not like what you are saying, is very short-sighted. And by the way we tried that and the result was that our forum has been split through the middle.

Yes I have the option to just ignore it, but to ignore and leave and post elsewhere I would be silently agreeing with something that I find repelling. It would mean that I would just have to accept being part of a dictatorship. In a democracy we have freedom of speech; we have the liberty to protest against injustices whenever we see it.

I do not intend just to play dead whenever something happens that I do not like.

Francisco

You missed the point completely of my post. First of all I do not see this as an injustice, it's just an added forum dammit. It's not like the BDSM board was removed or anything like that. I think the whole up in arms over something as simple as the sections being broken up is ridiculous. So some of the fluffier areas and less involved topics some of us come up with end up posted in a free for all. Do you not think that all of us are aware of the two areas now and surely we can find the thread we are looking for.

Now if it (the forum) had been taken away then I would be at the front of the pack wanted some heads and demanding that it be placed back rightfully. But this is just utterly stupid.

For your information I do not follow the crowd, am not part of the crowd, and I won't piss off. I don't really care what others think as a rule, if I am interested in it I will come back and post on the thread. Or, contribute wherever I feel like it or not comment when I don't feel the need.

LOL... a dictatorship. Well, Miss(tress)T and Laurel seem to be making a fine reich here. Gimme a break. First it is Laurel's site so should she and Manu choose to abolish all forums well that is so much her choice. I stand behind what is trying to be done, I may not like it or I may love it but simply why not give it a chance?

You must be one of those people that is hardcore everything. As I reread some of your posts and words you seem to waiver at points. Why not give this a chance, because you are a sheep that is afraid of change, that is why.

 

[Zaudika]

I am so sorry you feel necessary to attack, but to date I had not seen you here and assumed perhaps you were new from other realms of Lit as so many are right now...is beginning to resemble a fairground. I am sorry you feel we have not contributed substantially until this fiasco, let's call it for what it is, but as you have been a longtime frequent visitor to the forum, you will have seen our postings have been frequent and existent and very noticed for some time now, both serious 'strong' threads, and yes I have also introduced threads (is easy to do, just the press of a key) and posted on the 'fluff' threads as the trendy term seems to be for the moment.

So why were there no postings from us between joining Lit and this year before you ask?....well you see I have a life and during that time I was travelling back and forth across the globe finalising my life in one country to move to the opposite hemisphere and side of the globe, a humungous task when selling property, arranging shipping, attending to business, and also family arrangements ....most regulars here are aware of this through our regular postings and sharing.

At this point in time though I feel there is a need for everyone to express their feelings and when I see something I wish to comment on, or see someone I have come to know and respect being singled out in what was unfair observations IMHO, I feel I have the right, the same as anyone else with a vested interest in this board and the BDSM community does, to comment. I am sure you have also seen that I have voiced my opinion that this has been the result of many thinking silence was the way to deal with the issues and they would go away, only to wake up yesterday and find the trust they had placed had been abused in the manner it has...so why would I see now that silence is the answer? History repeatedly shows us silence is tantamount to approval and 9.99 times out of 10 is acted on accordingly.

Catalina

My intent wasn't to attack... though I realize it easy comes across that way when frustrated and somewhat irritated about a comment.
We have a strong difference of opinion, and really, I think both you and I know that our opinions on things aren't going to change.
I do want to add, that some of the points people have made about not wanting the change, seem fair, and reasonable. However, whenever there's change, there's never going to be a time that everyone likes it.
My feelings because of what was happening in BDSM was that a change needed to be made, and so while I can see other people's frustration. I still think that the change was a very good one.
I see nothing wrong with expressing the opinions and frustration. What I originally got bugged by, that I originally posted about, was just the fact that it seems Richard was spamming his exact same words in every thread.
To try to explain even clearer, .. you post in a lot of the threads, and you have several posts. But, I feel that when you're posting you're directly posting to each subject, taking the time to explain more of why you feel that way, and while you're being a bit brash and harsh at times (As other people are being also) .. you're still sharing your opinion without repeating the exact same 2 or 3 sentences over and over again.
That isn't what I saw him doing, which once again, was the reason for my original post.

 

[Lancecastor]

Catalina Thousandislands...you're making a fool out of yourself.

I suggest you shut the fuck up for a while and do some reading before you make any more ass-umptions about who is and isn't new, interested, authoritative, etc here.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You must be one of those people that is hardcore everything. As I reread some of your posts and words you seem to waiver at points. Why not give this a chance, because you are a sheep that is afraid of change, that is why.

Let me start by making where I stand absolutely clear so there is no confusion.

I am not opposed to the new forum as such; I am opposed to the way it was introduced and the way certain threads were moved and I would like to know the rules clearly stated what Fluff is and what serious BDSM is and when and how one thread is going to be moved. I am mostly concerned about how certain regulars have been treated and how some person’s feelings have been hurt and disregarded. We are a community, we should care how each other feels. That to me has always been a great plus point of Literotica. I had been a lurker for a long time before I decided to participate in the forum. What made me become an active participant was the sincere concern I saw for persons and the care and support which was given to the ones who needed it.

There is an important consideration that needs to be made, what if I decide to make a posting in one forum and then suddenly someone decides that my thread is ‘fluff’ and decides to put in the so called ‘fluff’ forum? Or the other way around what if I decide to make an entry in the ‘fluff’ forum and it is moved into the serious BDSM forum?

If I decide not to post in the so called fluff forum, I can be forced to by having one of my threads moved into it. And if the rules are wherever you post your thread remains, then there is no use for this sub-forum. So again we come down to the usefulness of this forum.

Also what about the persons who like to concentrate on the more serious matters inside BDSM and like having long serious discussions? I find myself often making extremely long essays, in which I delude myself into thinking that I have swept my imaginary ‘opponents’ away with the most brilliant possible combinations of words that could exist, yes all in my mind I know. Who cares that one does it like me in long essays, and others in sentences of three words combined with a joke or two. Both are completely relevant to the matter.

To split the community in two, to put certain threads into it and not others is making a judgement call…suddenly someone is deciding what is and what is not serious BDSM. This split is also a community one as we have seen by the already evident fragmentation where like minded people who last week stood together in the stance to defend their right to live this lifestyle, are now opponents reduced to insults and attack. And yes I have been seduced by it and I am not innocent of making inflammatory remarks. The fragmentation will continue and IMHO play into the hands of those who set out to antagonise and disrupt what was a relatively spirited, but friendly forum.

Now about Laurel and Manu owning the site and having absolute power and deciding if they wanted to close the whole forum. I am sure they could, like I am sure they also could not. As far as I have always understood, the philosophy of Literotica is a place where people can express freely their ideas, where freedom of speech is defended, where the rights of the individual are held high, where people are not judged or thrown out because they have a different opinion.

I find the constant referral to the fact that it is Laurel site and she can decide whatever she wants completely irrelevant. Yes she can, we have already noticed that. Does that mean I now have to shut up and not give my opinion any more?

If we could have all the threads in their original place or changed with the permission of the thread starters, if we would have clear rules about what goes into one forum and what goes into the other, then I could live with it. Especially if attention was given to the ones who’s feelings have been hurt and who feel totally and utterly left alone by a community they though they where a part of.

I have no problems with another BDSM forum…. hey the more people get familiar with BDSM the better. I think the whole world should become BDSM and vanilla should become the minority. LOL

Francisco

 

[Master_Vassago]

It's also a matter of giving a little time for the issues to work out. Give consideration to Miss T and Laurel, I'm sure that the issues at hand are trying to be worked out without all this hoopla. I post on serious issues and fluff ones as well, just because I don't get involved all the time doesn't mean I don't care or give a shit.

Where there are necessary concerns about certain threads, contact Laurel and Miss T if you haven't already. Perhaps in trying to move certain threads some got lumped in by mistake. We are all human and make errors at time. BUt for the interest of all why not give them a chance to look through the thread and decide.

I must say I really don't see the reason for such blatant disregard for what's trying to be done and that all the parties that are just disgusted and pissed off don't try and come up with a better alternative to just leaving or to whine about it.

I'm sure if we as a whole could decide that one or two threads that have gotten changed then we could get the thread(s) placed back in the main forum. As a unit we can accomplish more than one. I just fail to see the huge reaction that is going on with certain people now. It's actually childish I think, it's sort of like your saying, "Oh, no my thread got moved," big deal, it's still here just moved to a subforum. I suggest a valium.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

OK...i read the entire thread and the points of each individual poster. It seems to me that the BDSM forum did take a detour from it's original intent...which was (and is)to have a safe place to learn about the BDSM lifestyle, period. Yes, i post on a LOT of fluff threads, I even run away and post on the GB. The problem as a whole isn't about censorship..it is about taking the original forum back to it's orignal purpose..that of BDSM discussions. I agree that the divisiveness of the forum is hard to get used to, but as a whole if the community wants to make it work...We can. Now, i know i have not been posting as long as some of Y/you. But i have been around lurking and reading for over a year (under this name and a previous one) and it makes sense to, at the very least, TRY IT. The place (or forum) is not what gave Me a sense of community...it was (and is) the people. I have nothing else to say about the matter.

PET

 

[catalina_francisco]

It's also a matter of giving a little time for the issues to work out. Give consideration to Miss T and Laurel, I'm sure that the issues at hand are trying to be worked out without all this hoopla.

The issues should have been worked out before changing threads and starting a new forum. That is how things are done; you make a plan before you do something. You inform people beforehand and give them ample warning that things are going to change with ample time to respond before the fact takes place. You do not on a Friday morning (my time that is) suddenly decide without giving proper warning, ‘lets change the forum’ and add a new one. To me this feels like, there are some people stirring up trouble, we need to do something before they get even worse, give them what they want as they make the loudest noise.

And about the reaction of some people, well they feel hurt, left out, and completely deserted by some. Yes maybe they need a valium and maybe they do not. The idea was that we were a community and we should help and support those that need and want our support, in good times and in bad. You have clearly a strong personality and are not so upset by what some are. But our community also exist out of new comers to BDSM, some of whom have fragile personalities and have gone through hell to be even on this thread. Some have been through hell in their personal life and found a home here where they where valued and had their second home, some just are plainly pissed off at the injustice of giving in to a few without being even consulted.

Those feelings should have been taken into account before giving in to a few.

I mean let’s be honest, it’s all hindsight and nothing is going to change it, the new forum is here to stay that is clear. Whatever we say it has been decided by the higher powers and that is it, we accept it or leave. I do not want to leave since I do like Literotica too much but I will be dammed if I just accept it without expressing my thoughts about it.

And that is pretty much the last thing I will say about the new forum, it has become by now a waste of time especially since it only helps dividing our community even more.

Francisco.

 

[Master_Vassago]

The issues should have been worked out before changing threads and starting a new forum. That is how things are done; you make a plan before you do something. You inform people beforehand and give them ample warning that things are going to change with ample time to respond before the fact takes place. You do not on a Friday morning (my time that is) suddenly decide without giving proper warning, ‘lets change the forum’ and add a new one. To me this feels like, there are some people stirring up trouble, we need to do something before they get even worse, give them what they want as they make the loudest noise.

And about the reaction of some people, well they feel hurt, left out, and completely deserted by some. Yes maybe they need a valium and maybe they do not. The idea was that we were a community and we should help and support those that need and want our support, in good times and in bad. You have clearly a strong personality and are not so upset by what some are. But our community also exist out of new comers to BDSM, some of whom have fragile personalities and have gone through hell to be even on this thread. Some have been through hell in their personal life and found a home here where they where valued and had their second home, some just are plainly pissed off at the injustice of giving in to a few without being even consulted.

Those feelings should have been taken into account before giving in to a few.

I mean let’s be honest, it’s all hindsight and nothing is going to change it, the new forum is here to stay that is clear. Whatever we say it has been decided by the higher powers and that is it, we accept it or leave. I do not want to leave since I do like Literotica too much but I will be dammed if I just accept it without expressing my thoughts about it.

And that is pretty much the last thing I will say about the new forum, it has become by now a waste of time especially since it only helps dividing our community even more.

Francisco.

First off Thank you, yes I do have a strong personality. A bit too strong at times. Well now that we agree that no matter what's done this forum will stay, let's move on to enjoy it. I know there are a few fluffy pieces that could be put here that didn't belong on the more serious side.

I see this as an opportunity to have a little fun at times and still have serious discussions on the other. That's why I haven't protested. Even the most serious die hard Doms have to let loose and have fun at times. That should be what the second forum is used for.

We all know that from time to time a serious or more thought provoking thread may end up getting changed to this sub forum but I doubt it will be a need for outcry, just take it for what it is, someone moving a thread. That's all I have to offer for now enjoy the rest of your scheduled, moved thread.

 

[Quint]

As for a section to yak about anything...we basically had that as far as I could see until some people from elsewhere decided to interfere and then return to whence they came to brag about their childish exploits.

Catalina

This and near-identical posts of yours especially were what I originally commented on, as quoted below:

Elitist? Yes you are aren't you?

Ad hominem again, this time against me. You now attack me rather than my argument. And where do you pull your evidence from? See above for what I said, and see why it's different from what you said. Elitist words rather than elitist person.

Seems to me it is a repeat of the historic injustices of whites telling blacks how and if they will live, straights telling gays how and if they should live, and men oppressing women for their own interests.

Total strawman argument. Fallacy 2. You take the facts, blow them out of proportion, and attack the distorted argument that results. Woo hoo, there's been oppression in the past. Point to exactly where that is occuring now and give your words some backup.

So in come the outsiders to tell the BDSM community how it should and will be done, and we then in true style bow and scrape at their feet in gratitude and wonder for the time they have bestowed us out of their busy schedule to impart their wise, benevolent knowledge born from their wonderful 'civilised' and 'right' vanilla lives.

Here's the thing: Lancecastor was here long before you. He's "practicing" if you dig that, or "authentic" if you prefer. But you know what? It's irrelevant! It's ad hominem! "He does not belong to this community, therefore when he points at something and says it's a problem, he must be wrong!" You could break it down into smaller words and say "He's not us, therefore he's wrong!" Truth is truth, no matter who speaks it.

Furthermore, what are you arguing? Catalina's main complaint seems to be that this was all started by those who you identify as the GB Brigade. Francisco says on another thread,

What we arguing is the decision that has been made and shoved down our throats without consulting, without asking if this is what we wanted.

So what's the problem, that people who aren't us have brought up points that have initiated change, or that steps were taken without asking us? The first is irrelevant. The second is post factum. However, we CAN discuss how to avoid said problems in the future--if we can move on and work on them rather than flagellate made-up or irrelevant arguments into the ground.

Hell I didn't realise I needed someone to do that for me...thought I could be individual and part of a community that practiced what they preached without oppressing anyone else, or pushing their own choices onto them....after all we are now in the 21st century aren't we, not the 18th? I would like to suggest to those who cry change is good and let's accept it and shut up that they practise what they loudly support. Change is good...we are in a new century so how about we instigate change that respects the rights of people to live peacefully and noninvasive in the way they see fit, not fight to keep the oppressions of the previous times.

Catalina

This is your opinion, totally safe from elitists like me who prefer to attack arguments that don't follow logical form. However, I'd like to say that rhetoric is more effective when backed up by solid facts--both the complaints and the suggestions--and written with a cool head.

 

[FungiUg]

[...]My problem with your statement is that it is ad hominem. [...]

Jaw drops in awe at someone who can say "ad hominem" with a straight face.

Qunit, while I agree with your post, rhetoric and debating are trained skills. Some people have problems distinguishing between an argument and the person proposing an argument. Um... I'm not sure what my point is, other than I am in agreement with your argument, and making the point that the argument and the person are two separate things. Attacking a person rather than their argument is almost an indication of "failure".

I remember totally playing with the minds of some friends of friends one time, doing the classic "devil's advocate" thing and almost ended up with the poor guy in tears! (er, it was a religious debate that time, and sooo funny, because another friend picked up on what I was doing, and took the opposing view for the religions, and all the time me knowing he is an athiest!)

So please folks -- keep in mind that if someone disagrees with you, they are not attacking you as a person. I have already had one person tell me that I was rude and condescending because I disagreed with her, and that I obviously disliked her. Which surprised me... but when I thought about it, I realised that again, some people have problems distingiushing the argument from the person making the argument.

We're all opinionated people here (or we wouldn't be still going on about the issues raised!) But keep the arguments to the point, and not to the person making the argument. And don't take offense when someone disagrees with you.

Okay, soapbox rant over.

 

[catalina_francisco]

May be worth noting we have not made any entries on these threads since yesterday as we see it all as pointless and moving far too much away from the issues of discussion we used to enjoy. Have actually taken proactive steps to try and bring the focus back to BDSM not personalities and changes. And why am I on the thread now? Well I check all the notices that enter my email as a mater of continuance of interest in anything we felt compelled to contribute to in the first place, nothing more or less. Why this comment? Couldn't resist under the circumstances we have moved on while others are saying people (us included)should, while they are still here dissecting the matter.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

Although I have said I was not posting anymore on this subject I was compelled to come back to the subject once more by the brilliant entry of Quint.

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Now to say that someone who is not into BDSM is an irrelevant fact when talking about a BDSM forum seems to me a distortion of facts. Strangely enough we did not put names or point to certain members inside Literotica. If I need to make an attack on someone I do it directly in one of his posts and in the open.

So what's the problem, that people who aren't us have brought up points that have initiated change, or that steps were taken without asking us?

The problem is that those changes have been instigated without consulting persons in the group. The new sub-forum is a hastily planned initiative, which has not been thought out well and in reaction to certain hostile components and posts, forgetting the feelings and emotions of everyone involved. The whole thing has a feeling of caving into pressures of influences.

I find though the idea that we can only discuss how to avoid problems in the future without protesting what has been done now is the ostrich strategy, putting my head in the sand and not looking any farther. I know, and I knew that the moment the forum was created it was here to stay. I mean, it is clear that whatever the feelings are of people who frequently visit the forum and actively participate in it, the forum is here to stay. Now to just blindly accept it and just say; ‘You guys made some mistakes, here are my suggestions how you could do it better next time”, is letting them of the hook and saying I accept my, and others opinions and feelings do not count or matter. Then next time they look at history they will see one clear fact, it is easy to just push our opinion through and do whatever one wants.

Better is to fight it, try to change it, even if you know beforehand that it is a lost battle. My hero is Don Quixote who fought windmills out of a sense of justice. To know that a battle is lost before you start it does not mean you just have to lie down and roll over and play dead.

I hope that the ‘powers that be’ after seeing how much they have affected the lives and feelings of others, will plan better, inform beforehand and have an open and honest discourse before they actually push their opinion through. And yes that is my opinion and yes you have the right to yours.

I hope now that I can let the subject rest and if there are any more persons who feel personally attacked by our sometimes strong opinionated postings, to them I apologize, they are not meant to be a personalised attack but more an expression of our own strong feelings about the matter.

Francisco.

 

[Cheyenne]

So, I'm out of town for awhile but thought I'd drop in to see if the world ended yet, not that there are two bdsm boards. Or is everyone settled in already?

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Damn, it's a pity you didn't stay out of town.

Guess we couldn't be so friggin' lucky.

~anelize

 

[RisiaSkye]

I have to agree with AnelizeDarkEyes and Rose. This will denegrate quickly into nothing more than another Playground, kissykissy, huggyhuggy, huge sig line, every get together say how wonderful everyone is bullshit.

Kowtowing to certain people who have been known to have nothing better to do than stir up shit whenever they get it into their minds is sickening and disgusting. This new "forum" is representative of that.

I almost stopped posting altogether at the "real" forum (btw, is that what it is to be called now?) because of all the political crap that went on last year. It's reared it's ugly head once again, and proves that, at Lit anyway, the majority do not have a say in how things are to be done. It comes down to those who can bully, throw temper tantrum, and whine until they get their own way.

I don't go to the Playground. I won't be back here. It's a waste of server space, IMO.

Well said, Chele.

This sub-forum represents precisely what I, and many others like me, never wanted this place to become.

Ah, well. So it goes.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Well said, Chele.

This sub-forum represents precisely what I, and many others like me, never wanted this place to become.

Ah, well. So it goes.

Yes, things evolve or devolve, however one wants to look at it. I thought the Fireside thread (which is really a playground-type thread) was fine for those who enjoyed it. An entire forum devoted to fluff is not something I am into. I have never complained about fluff threads and am not now. They have a place for those who like that. I have always been capable of ignoring what I am not interested in. And I have always been able to scroll past the flirting and hijacking of threads to find the posters whose ideas I want to read.

 

[His_sugar]

The problem is that those changes have been instigated without consulting persons in the group. The new sub-forum is a hastily planned initiative, which has not been thought out well and in reaction to certain hostile components and posts, forgetting the feelings and emotions of everyone involved. The whole thing has a feeling of caving into pressures of influences.

It has been said a hundred times, but the Literotica Bulletin Boards are not a democracy, you don't pay dues.. therefore, what the owner decides, is their decision. It isn't a majority rules situation. Users are not 'consulted' before decisions are made.

i'm just not sure what part of that isn't really clear to people.

 

[Mischka]

The General Board lost RisiaSkye, A Desert Rose, and SexyChele when the BDSM Forum opened. They stop in sometimes, but they are essentially part of a different community now. The same thing will happen with the new Cafe and GLBT Forums. People will leave their old forums to spearhead the new communities in the new forums.

More people may become comfortable with their new niche communites, but we're just becoming more fragmented as a result. The GB is now the Leftover Land of Flames, Politics, and Straight Vanilla Flirting.

But when this many people register and want to become part of the site, it's difficult to manage them all. I don't envy Laurel's job.

 

[A Desert Rose]

The General Board lost RisiaSkye, A Desert Rose, and SexyChele when the BDSM Forum opened. They stop in sometimes, but they are essentially part of a different community now. The same thing will happen with the new Cafe and GLBT Forums. People will leave their old forums to spearhead the new communities in the new forums.

More people may become comfortable with their new niche communites, but we're just becoming more fragmented as a result. The GB is now the Leftover Land of Flames, Politics, and Straight Vanilla Flirting.

But when this many people register and want to become part of the site, it's difficult to manage them all. I don't envy Laurel's job.

Well said and excellent points, Mischka. I am afraid you are right about the GB. (I stopped posting there mainly because my political views were occassionally viciously attacked by a few. My skin is too thin for the flaming that goes on there. If you can't stand the heat ... blah blah blah... so I pretty much stay away.)

As for vanilla flirting on the GB... I respectfully beg to differ just a bit with you. ;-)
There are plenty of females on the GB who make bi comments to one another and lots of talk about spanking, too. Those things do make me smile. LOL And I am sure they will continue to be part of the flavor of the GB. I say YEAH! ;-)

 

[Mischka]

As for vanilla flirting on the GB... I respectfully beg to differ just a bit with you. ;-)

There are plenty of females on the GB who make bi comments to one another and lots of talk about spanking, too. Those things do make me smile. LOL And I am sure they will continue to be part of the flavor of the GB. I say YEAH! ;-)

I dunno. With the GLBT Forum, the true bisexuals will have a forum to flirt with other bisexuals that are doing it for more than show for the guys. That will leave a lot of faux-bi-curious types on the GB, and that will just be lame. (And speaking of such things, if I never see another guy claiming to be a lesbian in a man's body, I would be one happy camper.)

I know what you mean about the flaming, though. I have a pretty tough skin, but if Laurel hadn't implemented the black-out ignore feature, I couldn't have lasted this long. It was getting too hard to ignore the putrid hate. But since I'm not into BDSM, and I'm not gay, I've got nowhere else to go.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I dunno. With the GLBT Forum, the true bisexuals will have a forum to flirt with other bisexuals that are doing it for more than show for the guys. That will leave a lot of faux-bi-curious types on the GB, and that will just be lame. Boy howdy is that ever the truth. I wondered how many others saw it for what it really is. (And speaking of such things, if I never see another guy claiming to be a lesbian in a man's body, I would be one happy camper.) And yes I agree with you 100% here, too.

I know what you mean about the flaming, though. I have a pretty tough skin, but if Laurel hadn't implemented the black-out ignore feature, I couldn't have lasted this long. It was getting too hard to ignore the putrid hate. But since I'm not into BDSM, and I'm not gay, I've got nowhere else to go. This can be a pretty interesting place, Mischka. It's good to see you here and your opinions are appreciated by more than a few. Hang around a bit and you might discover some things about yourself... you just never know. ;-)