The Rape Thread

[Phoenix Stone]

most of my fantasies (except those that are too sick even for me)are about things i wish to happen. i fantasize almost exclusively about rape/nonconsentual sex. that is because i have a hard time imagining consentual, mutually pleasureable sex. does that mean i would like to roleplay being raped, because it is the subject of so many of my fantasies? not at all. roleplay is fake, it's phoney, it's an act, a game. rape is real. i fantasize about the cold harsh realities of rape that i know so well. and sometimes, these fantasies of rape come to pass. and it kills me inside just a little bit more each time. but that does not stop the fantasies from playing over and over in my mind. sex IS rape to me. i know nothing else.

Ok. I understand much better now. And thank you for explaining rather than taking my eyerolling response to heart. My fantasies are much like yours. And not because I can't imagine consensual, mutually pleasureable sex. I can, have and have had plenty of such sex. It just doesn't make me cum. I have no clue whether I'd like to roleplay it or not. I also understand now how you differentiate between the two. Except that in some sense (this stuff is hard to tease out, with so many gray areas) I feel like Etoile that the sex you are having with your guy is a form of roleplay rape. While it's not about mutuality or consensus, you are choosing to put yourself in that continuing situation and in that relationship. (I did went along with some similar when I was younger, but not in that type of relationship now.) You are consenting by being there and in that relationship.

The thing is, so much of this is what is in a person's head. For instance, even in this relationship I'm in with a guy who wants to be mutual and whom I've have to beg to get him to jump me, all I have to do is not tell him that i dont like something, and let him go ahead and do it, to have much the same affect. (For similar reasons, it took me the longest time, as an adult, to put on a sweater when I was cold. Or even recognize that I was cold. And could do something about it.)

I guess I wonder, it doesn't sound like the rapes, including the non-consensual/consensual sex with your partner, turned you on. Is that true? But the fantasies do. Are you In your fantasies? Are they similar to real events? I'm not in mine, except sometimes the vague woman is sort of like me, and the events are Not based on or like rl events. That would just feel icky for me. How about you?

edited to add: you said your fantasies are about things you wish to happen. How are they different, what makes them hotter, than when you are in the actual situation?

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Re: Rape

Not for me. Roleplaying or not, just can't do it. I can see where one could get off on the thought or even the fantasy of it: the violence, the lack of control, the mental and physical anguish. Those things make sense to me. But to act it out? No, I can't.

Mayhap, it's my past (and everything that implies) but to want to do to others what was once done to me~ uh-uh. Maso as i am, I would fight someone who attempted it with me..especially if it got *too* real.

So I think on it..raping a man's ass, beating a woman senseless while raping her vaginally...but all in all, I know I couldn't do it. Just not in me, I guess..


Later all
Luna

Hi Luna, I'm really trying to find a way of connecting the dots in a safe sane blah blah blah way, between my sicko cum fantasies and bed play. There is a wide chasm between them. As I'm watching the fantasies like movies, it's possible that being the actor, the perp rather than the victim, would do more for me. (Sheesh that's as hard to face as , well, all the rest of it.) Otoh, I'm one of those people who rescues bugs, so truly hurting or scaring anyone is out. Never really thought about what it would be like if the other person Wanted me to, though. Yeah, thinking outloud right online here. Or maybe I'm a voyeur. Hmm, tiny baby steps in that general direction? Videos?

Couldn't roleplay rape, as I've worked very hard to have immediate instinctual kickass reactions to being jumped, and don't want to lose that rl training.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

since 'rape' is a legal category, some other terms would be helpful.

start with forced sex, intended to demonstrate the power of one (the forcer) exercized arbitrarily; which may include ignoring the pleasure of the other.

what would make it harsh, but not illegal;

1) conditions that suggest consent; the 'receiver' has abandoned usual safegaurds and precautions. e.g., she's gone to the strange man's apartment and disrobed;

in the ongoing connection, simply *returning* for a second time.

2) the received is to end up in a state of resignation, acceptance, or feeling it was deserved or that nothing can be done about it.

That's the objective description. It's not hard to see its possible appeal to the forcer.

Some have trouble believing that a person would find the above 'receiver' role, the actuality, erotic. It's a definite deviation.

I think that may be the relative uniquenss of OSG; not just the doing, perhaps, but the saying it here.

-----
Note, we're talking about acts that no DA would consider a suitable basis for laying charges.

Couple of things. 1. it's hard to know the intention or feelings of either party unless they tell you. 2. OSG hasn't said, that I've seen, that she finds it -- the actuality -- erotic. She finds her fantasies erotic.

 

[SwtSouthrnSub]

.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Nothing but an opinion.

How much ...

What happens ...

What happens ...

Will I ...

I worry...

Sit down and talk it out with him. Get everything straight in your head. Hell, practice once or twice with him so you have a safety net in your head when he "rapes" you unexpectedly. Make sure he understands if you do whatever you come up with to stop the scene, he knows you've gone into "freak out land" and stops immediately.

Half the whacky shit that happens in the heads of people can be avoided with a little honest, brutal if necessary, communication.

 

[bridgeburner]

Rosco,

Yep, I've got a true-crime interest as well. That's what I used to read for porn before I knew you could find more detailed fictionalized accounts. As horrific as I imagine it must have been for the actual victims the ideas themselves turn me on.

I was over in a thread talking about the current gang-rape case that's in the system in Orange County right now and thinking that on the one hand I hate it that actual rape happens and I'd feel horrible for this girl and sickened by her alleged assailants if it turns out that they did rape her. On the other hand if it weren't "real" the video sounds pretty hot.

-B

 

[bridgeburner]

osg,

simply because it's never about what i want, never about choice, never about me being "in the mood" or any of those other standards i think of when i think of "normal" sex.

Except that it ultimately IS about what you want because you are free to leave if you so choose. That's what differentiates it from an illegal act. This is not to say that you cannot be wounded or demeaned or deeply affected by a consentual act, only that rape is defined by its illegality.

I say this not to disount your experience but to point out that you are having "normal" sex in the sense that you've formed a relationship that works for you and your partner and you are happy in it. While I wouldn't be happy living your life I don't automatically look at it and think "sick, wrong, abnormal" unless of course you're invested in those labels in which case I'll try to oblige you. ;->

I wouldn't want to be in a situation where it was never about me, but that's just me. The idea of being completely sexually available is hot. There is a lot of appeal to this for me --- just being a receptacle for the sexual act. It's the idea of being taken casually, perfunctorily, whether or not I'm particularly in the mood that is hot ---- not necessarily the actual sex act when I'm dead on my feet, in a bad mood and wishing he'd not been consuming beer and garlic pretzels for the last hour, standing bent over the kitchen table looking like hell while he grunts my slot.


-B

 

[rosco rathbone]

I worry that if he pushes my limits to include a mental fear of him, that I will react in a negative way. Run like hell and never look back.

I never thought about it before; but I have to admit--- a big part of the attraction of edgeplay for me is the risk of blowing the communcations lines and having "her" whoever she is, run away. It's an emotional craps game.

 

[rosco rathbone]

True Rape Thought du jour

I see that NYC settled its suits with the 20-odd women who were "groping" victims at the (*wheeze hack cough*) Puerto Rican Pride (*cough*) Parade of 2000.

I won't get started on some troglodytic, curmudgeonly bout of anti-Rican disrespect, but to keep the thread on-topic; I remember that event and I remember being very stimulated by it. Damn, perhaps I am a backwards-ballcap-wearing, cretinous Puerto Rican youth myself---in my inner soul, I mean.

Anyhow, the victims were all curvaceous, sexy hoochie mamas and the carnival-like, pagan nature of the activity---a group grope at a parade...just tickled my fancy extremely. I basically couldn't help but think "fuck, serves the big-assed cunts right for strutting around on Rican Pride day in skintight oufits."

Wrongheaded, I know, but that was my psychosexual take on the whole matter.

Naturally, I deplore the random, violent, anti-woman groping of chicks at any of the Pride Days of our City's fair racial constituency. I am not a pro-groper! Youths: if you feel the irresistible urge to grope and to sexually humiliate women in public, please confide to your local priest, police sergeant or basketball coach.

Where was I....Yes, it really tickled me pink to see such an untrammeled Dionysian outbreak in the very last year of the 20th c.

 

[bridgeburner]

Do not mock my beloved frottage!!!

 

[rosco rathbone]

mock mock mock mock mock

*sneer*

how ya like me now, eh?

bitch.

 

[bridgeburner]

Depends on whether you're trying to rub off on me in a crowd. ;->

-B

 

[rosco rathbone]

call the cops!

*orgasm face*

 

[Marquis]

Ahhh, rape. Mother of all jerk-off fantasies.

The gropings of the Puerto Rican day parade reminded me a lot of punk rock concerts I would go to in high school. Girls would crowd surf, (this is where they get up on top of the crowd and get held up and pushed around for all you old folks) and guys would almost always try to "hold them up" by their tits or asses. Every once in a while a particularly hot girl would be flailing around on top of the crowd, trying in vain to slap away the many groping hands trying to feel her up or even take off her clothes. They kind of looked like clownfish trying to get into the wrong anemone. This happened at every show, yet it never seemed to stop busty skater chicks from trying to get on top of the crowd.

God love 'em.

 

[_krista_]

No one ever thought of safe words
or actions during their play.

..and it is the hottest fantasy/roleplay around for me.

 

[bridgeburner]

Marquis,

I remember seeing a photo of a girl being surfed in a crowd during either Mardi Gras or some spring break festival in Florida or something. She was nearly naked and quite obviously not having a great time. I don't recall the whole story but a couple of women were assaulted at this particular event.

And once again, while the reality of it is horrifying the picture and the fantasy were hot.


-B

 

[Etoile]

I don't really associate safewords with rape scenes. Safewords are more for other kinds of sceneing in my opinion. I don't have one, so I can't use one, but if I did I would think it would be more for when trying something new.

 

[ownedsubgal]

Ok. I understand much better now. And thank you for explaining rather than taking my eyerolling response to heart. My fantasies are much like yours. And not because I can't imagine consensual, mutually pleasureable sex. I can, have and have had plenty of such sex. It just doesn't make me cum. I have no clue whether I'd like to roleplay it or not. I also understand now how you differentiate between the two. Except that in some sense (this stuff is hard to tease out, with so many gray areas) I feel like Etoile that the sex you are having with your guy is a form of roleplay rape. While it's not about mutuality or consensus, you are choosing to put yourself in that continuing situation and in that relationship. (I did went along with some similar when I was younger, but not in that type of relationship now.) You are consenting by being there and in that relationship.

The thing is, so much of this is what is in a person's head. For instance, even in this relationship I'm in with a guy who wants to be mutual and whom I've have to beg to get him to jump me, all I have to do is not tell him that i dont like something, and let him go ahead and do it, to have much the same affect. (For similar reasons, it took me the longest time, as an adult, to put on a sweater when I was cold. Or even recognize that I was cold. And could do something about it.)

I guess I wonder, it doesn't sound like the rapes, including the non-consensual/consensual sex with your partner, turned you on. Is that true? But the fantasies do. Are you In your fantasies? Are they similar to real events? I'm not in mine, except sometimes the vague woman is sort of like me, and the events are Not based on or like rl events. That would just feel icky for me. How about you?

edited to add: you said your fantasies are about things you wish to happen. How are they different, what makes them hotter, than when you are in the actual situation?

Phoenix Stone...the reality of actually being raped, is of course not "hot", because it is rape...it is a violation....it hurts me inside and outside. am not talking about sex with my Master here (which i would not define as rape simply because i am his property, but were we a vanilla couple in the vanilla world...legally/clinically speaking, it would indeed be considered rape)....rather i'm talking about all those other times with all those other men who were strangers that took advantage of a vulnerable girl, or boys and men i knew who just would not accept begging pleas to stop, to leave me alone...as an answer. or those who were just plain evil and found their true pleasure only in the suffering of someone smaller, weaker. rape is not pleasant. rape is not "hot".

when i fantasize about rape, i fantasize either about things that have happened to me in the past or things that could likely happen in the future. real rape. and yes those thoughts are erotic to me at those moments...sometimes even arouse me. why? because i can recall all the suffering and the torture and the helplessness and hopelessness. and the thought of my own suffering or of the suffering of one like myself, for whatever twisted reason, appeals to my sexual personality. the personality shaped by being born submissive and then living a life containing much abuse. rather than turning away from it, shunning it, fighting it, as many do, i took it deep inside myself and accepted it as the gospel truth.

this is all probably impossible to explain in words....but basically, the thought of rape arouses me because i know it and hate it so, because it has hurt me sooo much, in some ways beyond repair. i have a deep need to suffer, to be abused even. just because it will be so terrible. not because it will make me cum (it won't, and i wouldn't wish it to), but because it will damage me.

 

[Marquis]

So do you like walk through alleys late at night dressed sexy?

 

[Phoenix Stone]

So do you like walk through alleys late at night dressed sexy?

Not necessary, dude. I can tell you've never been young and female and unprotected. That's all it takes.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Phoenix Stone...the reality of actually being raped, is of course not "hot", because it is rape...it is a violation....it hurts me inside and outside. am not talking about sex with my Master here (which i would not define as rape simply because i am his property, but were we a vanilla couple in the vanilla world...legally/clinically speaking, it would indeed be considered rape)....rather i'm talking about all those other times with all those other men who were strangers that took advantage of a vulnerable girl, or boys and men i knew who just would not accept begging pleas to stop, to leave me alone...as an answer. or those who were just plain evil and found their true pleasure only in the suffering of someone smaller, weaker. rape is not pleasant. rape is not "hot".

when i fantasize about rape, i fantasize either about things that have happened to me in the past or things that could likely happen in the future. real rape. and yes those thoughts are erotic to me at those moments...sometimes even arouse me. why? because i can recall all the suffering and the torture and the helplessness and hopelessness. and the thought of my own suffering or of the suffering of one like myself, for whatever twisted reason, appeals to my sexual personality. the personality shaped by being born submissive and then living a life containing much abuse. rather than turning away from it, shunning it, fighting it, as many do, i took it deep inside myself and accepted it as the gospel truth.

this is all probably impossible to explain in words....but basically, the thought of rape arouses me because i know it and hate it so, because it has hurt me sooo much, in some ways beyond repair. i have a deep need to suffer, to be abused even. just because it will be so terrible. not because it will make me cum (it won't, and i wouldn't wish it to), but because it will damage me.

Osg, you really didn't need that first sentence. I understand that. I guess why I'm asking is that I wish I understood for myself, as much as for you, why the fantasy arouses me, when the real thing SO does NOT.

For me, I figure one important difference is that it's not happening to Me in the fantasy. Another thing is that I don't fantasize about real events that did happen to me.
I read someplace that there are people who, despite very much not wanting the rape to happen, do have a physical reaction during it of arousal. Never heard of that happening to a real person though.
Hell, I even Tried to get aroused in one case, just to try to make the whole thing less unpleasant. It didn't work. So I wondered about that with you.

The other thing I've heard of is people who try to control the experience after the fact, by fantasizing it into being pleasant. Like giving a better ending to a nightmare. Certainly I've heard of kids, and I may have been one (hard to remember I was so young when I started) who began masturbating after being abused in some way, such as after a spanking, for a similar reason -- to gain control and fix a bad experience. Also, when you are in bed, crying, it's a soothing thing to do, and I suppose the two could get associated. I just know that the non-consent fantasies predated being raped. (Though not being otherwise abused.)
In any case, just some thoughts. I just wish I Could blame the fantasies on not ever experiencing positive consensual sex. Maybe it was just too late for me by the time I'd had that. Once you associate something for long enough, certain fantasies for instance, with cumming, your brain gets stuck that way.

I guess part of those fantasies was that I somehow got the idea as a child that sex was something that men did and imposed on women. So I was trying to prepare myself with the fantasies. Meanwhile never making the connection between cumming from masturbating and anything that happened during sex.
You want to hear a funny one? When I was raped I actually expected to hear bells ring. It was my 'first time' and understanding that technically what was taking place was intercourse -- I had that much anatomical knowledge -- being 15 and having watched those silly movies where bells would ring when when the couple falls into bed together, I literally expected to hear bells.

 

[Etoile]

i fantasize either about things that have happened to me in the past or things that could likely happen in the future.

Just an aside note, not relating to rape. I do this all the time. I almost never fantasize about what I want to have happen, but things that have actually happened or that I've been told might happen soon. I guess I just have no imagination!

 

[angellebug]

For me, the rape fantasy is how I have each and every yummie ogasim! It's how I lost my virginity so I guess I simply go back to my first experience. It wasn't brutal, it was a date rape situation. But, do I want some stranger to actually rape me? NO! But I ask myself all the time why I can't have a 10 minute orgasm by fantasizing about soft sex.

 

[Marquis]

You have ten minute orgasms!

 

[rosco rathbone]

I had a daydream about a public service ad campaign. I was picturing bumperstickers, red on yellow: RAPE: It's Not Good To Do!