The Story of O (please enter only if you have read it)

[catalina_francisco]

Actually I am curious. Would anybody here secretly desire to be in O's position? Do you envy her?

Wolf

At times I have, at times I still do. There is a beauty in submission to the depths you truly submit in every facet of your being, and in true form, without any thought to yourself or the outcomes. It is the dissociation from the personality slavery seeks in that the slave no longer owns themselves, but unconditionally hand themselves, body and soul to anmother to do with what they will.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

ADR, beautifully expressed post.

Catalina

 

[wolf2002]

At times I have, at times I still do. There is a beauty in submission to the depths you truly submit in every facet of your being, and in true form, without any thought to yourself or the outcomes. It is the dissociation from the personality slavery seeks in that the slave no longer owns themselves, but unconditionally hand themselves, body and soul to anmother to do with what they will.

Catalina

I can understand that. But still, the relation between you and Francisco seems so much more loving and caring than between O and Rene and/or Sir Stephen... could you submit so unconditionally to someone who didn;t really care for you?

 

[catalina_francisco]

I can understand that. But still, the relation between you and Francisco seems so much more loving and caring than between O and Rene and/or Sir Stephen... could you submit so unconditionally to someone who didn;t really care for you?

In another time and place perhaps....and I am not convinced the relationships were totally devoid of loving feelings, just perhaps evolving to a different level than those understood in the vanilla context.

 

[Krinaia]

People often see what they want to see, interpret as they wish to interpert. I wonder if any of you have read Orson Scott Card. I read a short story by him once and in it, a poet follows her scientist husband to a new world. She states that she will not explain her poetry for part of the beauty of that poetry is the way in which everyone who reads it will interpert it differently. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it isn't.

 

[catalina_francisco]

People often see what they want to see, interpret as they wish to interpert. I wonder if any of you have read Orson Scott Card. I read a short story by him once and in it, a poet follows her scientist husband to a new world. She states that she will not explain her poetry for part of the beauty of that poetry is the way in which everyone who reads it will interpert it differently. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes it isn't.

That's what makes the difference between a good piece of literature and a throwaway...continued discussion, analyses, innovative perceptions, and speculation even 50 or more years after it's publication. Without that it fades into insignificance and dies.

C

 

[Krinaia]

True Enough though sometimes good literature survives simply because it's fun to read. Anne of Green Gables jumps to mind. Not exactly a controversial work of literature as far as I know but fun to read none the less.

 

[catalina_francisco]

True Enough though sometimes good literature survives simply because it's fun to read. Anne of Green Gables jumps to mind. Not exactly a controversial work of literature as far as I know but fun to read none the less.

Anne didn't do it for me. I'm not so sure I would call a book controversial because it is discussed over and over by each generation as they discover it. Seems posters here are just as happy to discuss their perceptions and consider others.

Catalina

 

[Pure]

Wolf said,

//I can understand that. But still, the relation between you and Francisco seems so much more loving and caring than between O and Rene and/or Sir Stephen... could you submit so unconditionally to someone who didn;t really care for you?//

I don't read the story that way. That O and Rene are lovers is the starting point. She resists, in a crucial scene, agreeing henceforth to do what Sir S wants. She wishes to keep Rene's wants in the picture.

So I see the transition to Sir S are the key test: given that surrender in love requires ALL, then it must be transferable, in the way it was. For whatever reason--Sir S being a kind of big bro to Rene, or whatever-- Rene decides to ease himself from the picture. In the Psalms, the question to God is 'where are you?'. You pledge yourself, but that does not guarantee a bed of roses.

So it's critical that Sir S NOT care that much--though he's portrayed as softening, 'falling for ' her a little bit, iirc. He always prefers her bum, of course!. There would be no test in handing O to her mama. It would prove nothing.

If you've read the book of Job, he keeps going when there's no signs of God's protection or favor; quite the opposite; there are boils all over his body, his family is gone etc. That makes it interesting to persist.

As another poster said, O reduces herself to nothing--"O" is zero, after all. The devotee in relation to God is 'nothing', an infinitesimal speck. This is NOT like some Christian visions, where the believer gets a robe and golden crown in heaven, making it all worth while.

J.

 

[catalina_francisco]

As another poster said, O reduces herself to nothing--"O" is zero, after all. The devotee in relation to God is 'nothing', an infinitesimal speck. This is NOT like some Christian visions, where the believer gets a robe and golden crown in heaven, making it all worth while.

J.

Which makes it so appealing.

C

 

[Krinaia]

Pure


... what do you think are the roles of the different females in the book?

There is an instance wherein the author brings in a man that we see Jacquline falling in love with, true love, not the same acceptance she simply gives to Rene for adoring her. I'm curious what you make of this "ending" for J in the context of the story? I know what I think but I'd be interested to hear what you make of it.

 

[dragonlace]

there was a line in the story that reached out and touched me for some reason and i will always remember it........"Each surrender was for her the pledge that another surrender would be demanded of her, and she aquitted herself of each as though of a duty performed; it was odd that she should have been completely satisfied by it, and yet she was."

Just thought i would add my two cents

 

[SexyChele]

Actually I am curious. Would anybody here secretly desire to be in O's position? Do you envy her?

Uh.......no.

Not secretly, not overtly.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Uh.......no.

Not secretly, not overtly.

 

[Pure]

Skyline,
I will have to go back and look at Jacqueline in more detail. One thing I remember is that essentially O is asked to betray her. This has moral implications, that is, the O is so much in service or degraded that she will do the immoral--essentially trifle with another's feelings.

Of course, this is, in a way being done to her. She's learning both sides of the fence.

The main dom, one must remember, is not the gentle caring dom of current popularity, but more the Sadean dom, who takes, exploits.

Will get back to you when I've re-read more.

J.

 

[Krinaia]

Thank you for your intelligent discussion thus far Pure. Do let me know what you think of Jacqueline. The character reminds me a lot of my current roommate - an ex model very much in love with herself.

 

[exiledmaster]

I can understand that. But still, the relation between you and Francisco seems so much more loving and caring than between O and Rene and/or Sir Stephen... could you submit so unconditionally to someone who didn;t really care for you?

One of the interpretations I have read of the book that made real sense to me was that Aury / Declos intended it as a kind of Arabian Nights tale for her lover at a dificult time in her relationship. That would, to me explain the unsteady narrative struicture and the inconclusive ending. It would also explain the existence of fragments rhar were eventually bundled up and issued seperately.
Most of all though, it it is a personal allegory reflecting the troubles of an existing relationship it is almost inevitable that it will be impenetrable in places; unless you know what was happening in Aury / Declos's life, you won't be able to penetarte deeper into the meaning. The role of Jacqueline is a fine example; we don't know what bells of recognition must have have chimed for Aury / Declos's lover when he read of Hacqueline, and of O's ambivalence to her.
To me, because the author has been deliberately opaque, it leaves us only with the option of reading the book for what it is; an excellent summary of D/S fantasies that were current in the 50's and 60's in Europe. I don't know whether it's me and my choice of friends, but every sub I've ever loved, and the one I still love, have had pangs of recognition when reading O, as well as feeling aroused.

 

[Krinaia]

Exiled Master ....

what do you mean when you say that the "author has been deliberately opaque"? I think my common definition and use of the word opaque renders it hard for me to understand the way in which you are using here.

Interesting contribution I must say. I'll have to make a note to myself to read up on the author when I have the time... perhaps something to read by the pool god, I love my semester in Miami Beach!

 

[exiledmaster]

Exiled Master ....

what do you mean when you say that the "author has been deliberately opaque"? I think my common definition and use of the word opaque renders it hard for me to understand the way in which you are using here.

Interesting contribution I must say. I'll have to make a note to myself to read up on the author when I have the time... perhaps something to read by the pool god, I love my semester in Miami Beach!

To me the purpose of narative is to explain motivation and circumstance, to make transparent the whys and the hows. It can still be done by 'showing' rather than 'telling', but to me Aury / Declos is so aware of all the things her intended audience (her lover) knows that she doesn't have to do any of this clarification. Hence the use of the word opaque...

 

[Krinaia]

I think the epiphany of the sense of that will hit me tomorrow. I need to uhm excerise some control and turn my messenger off so that i will stop being informed of responses here... so i can get my work done and get to bed.

The word oqaque to me often means the addition of white or a solidity versus transparency ... so i think i see what you are meaning. But I'll stop here before I go saying something meant to sound eloquent and intelligent and failing utterly due to sleep deprivation.