The Story of O

[SexyChele]

Don't mean to upset you.

<snip>

The point you haven't addressed is how erotic can one be without getting graphic or vernacular? How is her erotism achieved? (I say 'achieved' since it's a best seller.)

J.

You're reading me wrong - I'm not upset. Frankly, I could care less either way. It is, after all, just a book.

I hadn't realized you were addressing the final question to me, sorry. I do believe eroticism can be acheived with or without getting graphic. If you simply go by how many books have been sold, I'll randomly guess the "fist fodder" paperbacks sold in every adult bookstore have probably out-sold "O" - and they are very graphic.

That would depend on what you term "best seller". (Since those little paperbacks rarely have an author associated with them, and are often sold and re-sold in second hand book stores.) I've read erotica where words such as "pussy", "cock", or any graphic variable of those words were not used and found the stories engaging, interesting, and beautifully written. I've also read stories that incorporated a lot of graphic language - and enjoyed them as well. Sorta depends on my mood.

My dislike for the "The Story of O" is not solely based on translation issues, however. When I read the story before, I simply didn't like it. I had difficulty identifying with "O". I had difficulty believing the entire story. (Yes, that is why I have problems reading fantasy stories such as "The Lord of the Rings") It was difficult for me to follow. I didn't feel the characters were well developed - I don't care for "projection" from an author. For me, either the author has defined the character, or their job isn't finished. But I do know that is something many famous authors have used, and many readers enjoy. I'm just not one of those readers.

Now, I did say I would re-read the book tonight, and I will. Who knows? Maybe tomorrow I may come back here and post that it was one of the most wonderful stories I've ever read. I may stick to my original opinion. At least I'm allowing myself to be open-minded.

But, no. Not upset.

 

[Rick DeVille]

The Story of O was written by a woman for her boyfriend.
The lack of connection and understanding is obvious, she didn't have a clue. Any notion or understanding of the effect of subspace was lacking as was any understanding of what drives Doms (something that personally annoys me).

And yet we all marvel at this fiction (because that's what it is)!

Bascially, it was and is crap

 

[RisiaSkye]

It never did it for me, either.

And spare me the lectures, please, which I say with all love but also a bit of a chuckle at some of the back-and-forth here. Ah, how we do strut our credentials and question the imaginative capacities and intellects of others when we don't like a person's taste!

I've never once seen anyone succeed in talking someone into appreciating a work that didn't appeal to their personal aesthetic tastes--and I've never been particularly entranced with Reage's overwrought, melodramatic and often Victorian prose. It's emotionally dead, overly analytical, and lacking in legitimate passion, in my purely subjective opinion. And, I found that I wanted O to suffer, because I had so little regard for her as a woman, a submissive of any real self knowledge, or even as a character in a purely literary sense. She has no anima.

 

[Guest]

RS said about story of O

"It never did it for me, either.
[cut]
I've never once seen anyone succeed in talking someone into appreciating a work that didn't appeal to their personal aesthetic tastes--and I've never been particularly entranced with Reage's overwrought, melodramatic and often Victorian prose. It's emotionally dead, overly analytical, and lacking in legitimate passion, in my purely subjective opinion. "

It's certainly hard to talk someone into appreciating something not in accord with personal tastes. Occasionally, of course, when tastes can be talked about, and reasons given, and, importantly, people listen to reasons of others, there's a tiny chink that opens, and sometimes, imperceptibly one's set-in-stone taste
(I hate Victorian novels!) moves a millimetre.

Each added, small thing, in which one learns to find enjoyment, is a delight in life. Finding jazz "boring," one is dragged to a concert and listens and is fortunate to have a lover of it attempt to convey its appeal, try to point out what's there for them, what to listen to and for. Then sometimes that little chink opens and, in a small passage, there's sudden enjoyment.

 

[Guest]

The above reply to Risia Skye is by me, "Pure"; the system did not 'register' me properly.

 

[Rick DeVille]

It's still crap

 

[Desdemona]

It was pretty boring for me. I've tried several times to read it and I always lose interest.

 

[Rick DeVille]

It was pretty exciting for its time I guess but it is so clinical, so without feeling it reads like an academic thesis written by a lawyer in training

 

[Desdemona]

Clinical, dry and detached. Of course, that *does it* for some folks.

 

[Pure]

Well Rick, do be so good as to tell what are iyho the bdsm classics
(among published, hard copy works). **

And please don't include anything a person wrote for his/her lover, since somehow that's very important.

Awaiting enlightenment,

J.

**Leaving your own work aside, that is.

 

[Pure]

//

 

[Pure]

Desdemona said,

Clinical, dry, detached, of course that *does it* for some folks. //

Yes, indeed, for many a sub. Hence "Dr." scenes.

Is it possible that some of our hot blooded friends have trouble understanding this point?

 

[Desdemona]

Desdemona said,

Clinical, dry, detached, of course that *does it* for some folks. //

Yes, indeed, for many a sub. Hence "Dr." scenes.

Some of our hot blooded friends seem to have trouble understanding this point.

I prefer to give all our hot blooded friends the benefit of the doubt in terms of their level of understanding. We each have our own individual kinks and different opinions about what is erotic.

Personally, I find "Dr." scenes and other clinical stuff pretty icky because it reminds me of work. I'm happy for those who are able to eroticise and enjoy these types of scenarios.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Each added, small thing, in which one learns to find enjoyment, is a delight in life. Finding jazz "boring," one is dragged to a concert and listens and is fortunate to have a lover of it attempt to convey its appeal, try to point out what's there for them, what to listen to and for. Then sometimes that little chink opens and, in a small passage, there's sudden enjoyment.

See, but you're comparing apples and refrigerators here. It's not as if I said "I don't enjoy books," or even "I don't enjoy erotica." Not understanding the appeal of jazz is discounting the artistic contributions of an entire genre of music; not enjoying Story of O is rejecting a single work.

I can love jazz without adoring each album, concert, artist, and work. I can appreciate the value of even detached and emotionally non-committal erotica without enjoying O. Be careful and think through your analogies before climbing back up on the predictably elevated equine.

 

[yuppietowngirl]

I actually finished reading it the other night. It had only taken me two years to read. I wasn't impressed with it. I thought that I was the only one to feel this way...pleased that it isn't just me.

What I have found...since getting serious and finishing the book. Is that I am beginning to question a few things in my life now. Not sure that is such a good thing. But the book did leave me feeling empty.

 

[Pure]

Hi Risia

"you're comparing apples and refrigerators" [cut]
"...think through your analogies before climbing back on the predicatably elevated equine."

(Dismounting)

Well, the story and analogy would work as well, had I mentioned a single work, like Rachmaninoff's 3rd Piano Concerto, or Cervantes' _Don Quixote_.

But rather than engage your clever negatives in a pointless contest of tastes, let me simply ask you, also, please state what are in your view the classics of bdsm erotica (in published, hard copy).

Notwithstanding some lapses about individual works ( ) you've got a fine sensibility and have crafted such little gems such as Blackberry Autumn, so I'm sure your 'positives' would bring a little delight into my and others' lives.

 

[Guru]

 

[SexyChele]

Okay, I said I would state what my opinion was here again, and since I'd seen this thread once more pop to the top, I thought I would just chime in.

I've only gotten half-way through the book, and I started reading 3 days ago. Normally, for 200 pages, I should have it read in one night. Unless I'm completely bored with a book. And with this one, I am.

The first time I read this book - admittedly only about 2/3 - I was so bored, I put it down. I've committed myself to re-reading the whole thing this time, and I'm reading it from a different perspective. This time I'm not only reading it from the point of a story, but also on the mechanics of writing. Either way, so far, this book comes up well short in both aspects.

Unless something big happens in the last half, Reage is simply relaying a tale. There is no emotion whatsoever, outside of the idea that O loves Renee - and even that seems forced. There is no explanation of the type of relationship O had previously with Renee. We do not know if she was beaten before, if they engaged in any sort of kink whatsoever. We do know that he only "took" her (there, avoided a "vulgar" term) vaginally. Seems like a rather boring fellow to me - especially one who is supposedly involved with this secret brotherhood thing.

We are told that O is whipped on a regular basis, but the beatings, the whippings, except for a very few, are merely mentioned and not gone into any sort of detail. Yes, we are told the lash is applied. We are told that O twists and turns. We are told she screams. But that is it. There is nothing mentioned about what O is feeling herself. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

Also, we are never certain exactly what the men are getting out of this. O is told she is to be whipped for instructional purposes, but if none are in the mood, then a valet will do it. Why? What instruction?

I had a hard time putting my finger on it, but Rick hit it on the head for me. The book reads like some one who wanted to titilate some one with a shocking story and they wrote about something they themselves never experienced. And it shows.

Why is this book so popular? Because I think when it came out it was shocking. Let's remember that when "Peyton Place" hit the stands in the 50s it was scandalous reading. Today, it barely raises an eyebrow.

Literature is simply a reflection of the time in which it was written. Maybe for that, O might have some redeeming qualities. But here? Today? No, I don't think so.

And I think the reason, Pure, you are not finding the answer to your question about BDSM literature is that because no quality literature has been written. Maybe that's because those who are truly into this lifestyle are living it, rather than simply writing about it.

But then, this is only my "half-way through the book" thoughts. Who knows? The second half may prove more fruitful. Please. It's gotta. I can't allow myself to be bored any longer!



Guru - all versions of this story that I've seen, both online and in print, state that the final chapter has been supressed. I don't think the final chapter was ever published, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Pure]

Hi SC,

If I may comment on some of your points:

>Unless something big happens in the last half, Reage is simply relaying a tale. There is no emotion whatsoever, outside of the idea that O loves Renee - and even that seems forced.
[/]
>We are told that O is whipped on a regular basis, but the beatings, the whippings, except for a very few, are merely mentioned and not gone into any sort of detail. Yes, we are told the lash is applied. We are told that O twists and turns. We are told she screams. But that is it. There is nothing mentioned about what O is feeling herself. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.[//]

I reply: Because it's not mainly psychological, it's not devoid of psychological insight. Feeling and thoughts are mentioned, for instance.

"Lying on her left side, alone in the darkness and silence, hot beneath her two layers of fur, of necessity motionless, O tried to figure out why there was so much sweetness mingled with the terror in her, or why her terror seemed itself so sweet. She realized that one of the things that most distressed her was the fact that she was deprived of the use of her hands...." p.23

There is a fine little vignette when Sir S asks her to caress herself.
"O meekly stretched her right hand toward her loins .... but her hand recoiled and she mumbled,
"'I cant'
And in fact she could not .... [she repeats the words]

"What she was seeing in her mind's eye, what she had never been able to forget, what still filled her with the same sensation of nausea and disgust that she had felt when she had first witnessed it when she was fifteen, was the image of Marion slumped in the leather armchair in a hotel room, Marion with one leg sprawled over one arm of the chair...caressing herself in her, O's presence, and moaning.

[Marion mentions being discovered and O asks if she ran away.
No, the man asked her to continue.]
"O had been overwhelmed with admiration and with horror...had steadfastly refused to fondle herself in Marion's presence. Marion had laughed and said,
'You'll see. Wait till your lover asks you to.' " (p.88)


>Also, we are never certain exactly what the men are getting out of this.

I reply: It's the "Story of O", SC. but note:
"For a long time he had wanted to prostitute her, and he was delighted to feel that the pleasure he was deriving was even greater than he had hoped, and that it bound him to her all the more...." (p.32)

Later there's mention of R's enjoying the sight of her struggling and screaming.

>O is told she is to be whipped for instructional purposes, but if none are in the mood, then a valet will do it. Why? What instruction?

I reply: The goal is stated: " 'Your submission will be obtained in spite of you, not only for the inimitable pleasure that I and other will derive from it, bu also so that you will be made aware of what has been done to you.' " (p.33)

>I had a hard time putting my finger on it, but Rick hit it on the head for me. The book reads like some one who wanted to titilate some one with a shocking story and they wrote about something they themselves never experienced. And it shows.

I reply: Rick speaks after the fact, after he's been told. In fact, hardly anyone guessed the circumstances of the writing or the sex of the author. In interview, she stated it was fantasy, but it's unclear what she and her lover actually did. Clearly she wasn't done the degree of violence portrayed, however.

>Why is this book so popular? Because I think when it came out it was shocking. Let's remember that when "Peyton Place" hit the stands in the 50s it was scandalous reading. Today, it barely raises an eyebrow.

I reply: There's more than a little scandal left. The slavery portrayed is more extreme than talked about in SCC bdsm. The consent is contractual, not minute by minute, as most here would have it, which raises the question, can you contract away your freedom?
Not now in US, but in other times, other places.

Note the arrangement:
She's asked by Rene and Sir S to consent to allow herself to be used by Sir S. She says yes, but adds,

"Even if I agree to it now," she said, "even if I promise, I couldn't bear it. [whipping]"
"All we ask you to do is submit to it, and , if you scream or moan, to agree ahead of time that it will be in vain," Sir Stephen went on.

There's consent at one point, for a period of slavery; within that period, during a whipping one screams and begs for release, but there's no 'red' signal, "stop" is ignored. A fantasy, perhaps, but it has a strange appeal, or am I just twisted?

>Literature is simply a reflection of the time in which it was written. Maybe for that, O might have some redeeming qualities. But here? Today? No, I don't think so.

O is transferred to Sir Stephen's dominion, she consents to R's request. Can a slave to transferred? Does love and /or devotion imply willingness to be given over to another (friend of your present dom/me)? Do you take an order to fuck your dom/me's friend? Why? Why not?

>And I think the reason, Pure, you are not finding the answer to your question about BDSM literature is that because no quality literature has been written. Maybe that's because those who are truly into this lifestyle are living it, rather than simply writing about it.

"No quality lit. has been written." !! A fairly extravagant claim, in view of the lifestyle of many educated people for a couple hundred or more years. Living isn't opposed to writing, for gays, or straights, or sadists (the Marquis). Give N. Nessus a while and you'll have some pretty good quality in print. The sad truth, leaving aside present company of course, if that many at literotica do not read much published--even in e-zines--erotica; that would explain the lack of referral to 'classics.'

Anyway, this is just to set out some material. Tastes are not going to be changed, but I thought there should be one positive and substantive response to the original query.

Let me know your final thoughts. Do read closely!

 

[Rick DeVille]

My eyes hurt

 

[Never]

I hear sticking sliced cucumber on your eyes does wonders.