Therapy to change 'feminine' boy created a troubled man, family says

[thejdangel]

I think true danger comes when you try to put a child into a category. Some girls play with traditional 'masculine' toys and some boys with traditional 'feminine' toys. This is all part of play and imagination... Sometimes adults need to see the world with a bit more innocence! Playing with toys traditionally linked to the opposite gender is not necessarily a precursor to sexual or gender confusion. Sometimes a game is just a game.

 

[Stella_Omega]

information that was impossible to come by a couple decades ago.

THIS!

This, this, this.

I am fifty-five, and I am just now getting information that is vital to me-- was vital for years but I couldn't access it.

 

[blade_rocknut]

I think true danger comes when you try to put a child into a category. Some girls play with traditional 'masculine' toys and some boys with traditional 'feminine' toys. This is all part of play and imagination... Sometimes adults need to see the world with a bit more innocence! Playing with toys traditionally linked to the opposite gender is not necessarily a precursor to sexual or gender confusion. Sometimes a game is just a game.

Nothing wrong with a game....OR gender dysphoria ( and such). It's the guilt & shame that are a problem!

 

[none2_none2]

Good points, none2 You won't be surprised to hear that I, as well, am pretty sick and tired of people categorising weak, catty, backstabbing behavior as "feminine."

What might this poor kid have been had he been left alone? A loving person with a strong instinct to cherish others was ruined.

The parents were wrong, but lets face it, kids are cruel to kids that are different. It isn't limited to LBGT youth. For instance, I remember how kids were cruel to unattractive kids. They didn't do that much to boys, but girls that weren't attractive were put down -- looks, weight, dated clothing, bad hair style, etc. Sometimes the popular girls were the worse. I remember one girl who was unattractive (her neck and jaw had no contours and she had braces for polio. They set her up to believe that someone wanted to date her, then he was a no show. There was no physical abuse, but that is EXTREMELY cruel. Other students were also cruel to poorer kids, or kids whose parents were not liked in the community -- even if the kids themselves were just fine. Now if something different could be seen as a positive, it was overlooked. For instance, overweight boys could stay popular because they played football. Unfortunately, overweight girls simply were picked on. (FYI, I'm not even bringing up anything about race, because we didn't have minority students in my rural town.)

Unless ALL parents and the school administration have a zero tolerance of cruelty between kids, a kid that is different is going to be picked on. That isn't to say they won't make friends, but plenty will be cruel. Students that setup cliques are also prone to be judgemental.

I think most of us who were different can recall such stories no matter what generation we come from. I remember throwing away a watch that was given to me by my folks because the kids said that a boy's watch had to have a wide band -- not a thin band like mine. I will admit that I went to my 32 year class reunion last fall (our very first reunion). One girl who picked on me, apologized. I think it actually meant more to her than it did to me, as I had gone on from any anomosity specifically aimed towards her. However, I do remember some of the stuff. While the girls didn't beat me up, these popular girls were really bad about spreading false stories. That clique had spread the rumor that I had been masturbating in math class in the back of the room. She had also once called me from her slumber party to tell me I needed to come over because some boy threatened to rape and beat her up. I didn't fall for it, but that is some of the mean stuff that went on. I also remember even during graduation that I had to go to the back of the line. (We Marched in pairs two at a time (boy/girl) in alphabetical order. I would have ended up walking in with a cheerleader. She couldn't stand that thought, so she and her friends had the popular guys make me move to the back of the line.

There wasn't any physical confrontation in HS -- that ended in grade school. Grade school I was picked on. Not only in my rural town, but also in the DOD schools when I lived with my Dad who was overseas in the USAF. There, not only were some of the kids cruel, but the military guys had the same intolerance for non-conformity. My hair length was the primary issue. Even my dad sometimes took their side. For instance, I was gullable. Other students would say they forgot their lunch money, and asked if they could borrow money from me. They would never pay me back -- giving one or another excuses. My dad heard about it and thought I had been blackmailed by some a black kid that had a reputation for threatening kids into giving money. (I had no idea who that was as I never met him. I was simply niave.) I was pissed at my dad that he didn't' even consider that I was telling the truth.


Anyway, I survived it all. What beatings I got from my father were because he was an asshole when I was young. Between 3.5 years with him, and school peers, I ahve FEW positive memories. But I miss my childhood for all the love I got from my grandma. That is enough for me.

So again I state that for me I hold that I'm glad I wasn't out and "protected" from such cruel kids. I might have had a happier childhood, but I would have been so naieve that when I ran into that as an adult, I might have been killed. By being toughened up, I developed a "don't cross me" look and attitude that has served me well.

I fear that if we have too much cuddling from the cruel realities of some human meanness, then LBGT would be setup for a rude awakening if the pendlum ever swung back to extreme intolerance. I think a lot of people forget that one of the most tolerant LBGT societies was pre-Nazi Germany. Look what happened there. I'm not saying we should live in fear all our lives, but that we should always be prepared to defend ourselves.

What makes me so different from this poor young man is that I was unconditionally loved my my grandma (no I never discussed my sexual attractions with her). I think most of us can take a lot of crap if we just know that when we go home we have someone one who will take our side through thick and thin. That anchor "rock" love is essential to coping with one's differences in an intolerant world.

 

[Wolfman1982]

none2_none2: school of hardknocks to some, to others it is called school of life. Kids can be mean cunts, and some of them when they grow up. Will still bully and harass. To some people who survive bullying, they are happy that it toughened them up. For others they became tough from it, but they will fight against any kind of future bullying and harassment. And others again, they commit suicide . Cause people are fucking cunts and should be punished for their actions.

 

[thejdangel]

Nothing wrong with a game....OR gender dysphoria ( and such). It's the guilt & shame that are a problem!

You are right there is nothing wrong with either. But people who are bigoted or just don't understand look at innocent games and take them to mean something that perhaps they wont.

Essentially I feel that 4 is much to early to make an assumption about anything!

 

[Wolfman1982]

Ah well, that explains why you won't take your own meds.

It's understandable. But the newer drugs aren't abusive, you would be happier and more capable on them, and your nuttiness is hard on the people around you.

Take a hike, cause you are old enough to stop pissing people off. And here I thought I spoke / wrote to a person, younger than me. Well it is a surprise , cause you could be my mother in age, of all things. God damn, you really are an immature old person, perhaps you should begin eating some drugs that could expand your mind and intelligence. Cause there is no medicine against being normal, but there are loads of different medicine that can help you. If you are nuts, and if you ask me. Then YOU are the fucking nut around here. And it is getting old, that you try to ask me, if I am bi-polar or manic depressive as it used to be called. If you are anything like what you are doing in my direction, in real life: When it comes to attitude, behaviour and manners. Then it would not surprise me, if somebody came with some extremely harsh words and gestures towards you. Since you would be asking for it, as far I can predict things. So Stella, you old hag, what about you smoke a big ass joint, get the munchies and then chill the fuck out.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The parents were wrong, but lets face it, kids are cruel to kids that are different.

</snip>
I fear that if we have too much cuddling from the cruel realities of some human meanness, then LBGT would be setup for a rude awakening if the pendlum ever swung back to extreme intolerance. I think a lot of people forget that one of the most tolerant LBGT societies was pre-Nazi Germany. Look what happened there. I'm not saying we should live in fear all our lives, but that we should always be prepared to defend ourselves.

What makes me so different from this poor young man is that I was unconditionally loved my my grandma (no I never discussed my sexual attractions with her). I think most of us can take a lot of crap if we just know that when we go home we have someone one who will take our side through thick and thin. That anchor "rock" love is essential to coping with one's differences in an intolerant world.

You are right of course, but I doubt that any of us will ever receive too much cuddling, for starters.

What I should have said was:"If his parents left him alone" especially at four years old, for fucks sake. And of course they would have had to do more than that-- they would have had to actively support him.

 

[Safe_Bet]

none2_none2: school of hardknocks to some, to others it is called school of life. Kids can be mean cunts, and some of them when they grow up. Will still bully and harass. To some people who survive bullying, they are happy that it toughened them up. For others they became tough from it, but they will fight against any kind of future bullying and harassment. And others again, they commit suicide . Cause people are fucking cunts and should be punished for their actions.

I like how you use female genitalia as a derogatory term then talk about the evils of "harassment".

Sexist pig, much?

 

[Wolfman1982]

I like how you use female genitalia as a derogatory term then talk about the evils of "harassment".

Sexist pig, much?

If you know anything about the British English language you would know that cunt is gender neutral. So Mommy dearest, what about you shut the fuck up ? Or am I now being condescending ?

 

[blade_rocknut]

Well, at least a little discussion took place before commencement of name calling. Both of you are of course; to varying degrees correct about definitions of the word..(context goes a long way)...but that's not what the angst is about. It seems that you two despise each other so that productive discussion isn't possible.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Well, at least a little discussion took place before commencement of name calling. Both of you are of course; to varying degrees correct about definitions of the word..(context goes a long way)...but that's not what the angst is about. It seems that you two despise each other so that productive discussion isn't possible.

Actually I did not despise her wife, hell I respected her wife. But Amy has just gone into extreme hatred towards me in so many ways. So even if I had said runts, instead of cunts. She would be nitpicking at my choice of words.
I honestly do not target her, but do I despise Amy ? nope, I just do not like her and the horse she rode in on.
And yes I know, this is a war that will run for a long ass time. Cause there is nobody that can stop this war.
What we need is a "UN Soldier" who can mingle in between the two parties. But the one who could be a great asset in this war, has been shunned by Amy . It is no wonder why I am listening to some great reggae. Cause it calms me down beyond anything .

 

[Etoile]

I agree with blade_rocknut. It's seriously fucked up that we can't have a normal conversation in here. This isn't about individuals on Literotica, it's about the poor guy who killed himself. No wonder I don't participate in News & Issues threads much, they constantly forget the issue and devolve into bullshit. (Speaking generally here, not targeting anybody.)

 

[Safe_Bet]

I agree with blade_rocknut. It's seriously fucked up that we can't have a normal conversation in here. This isn't about individuals on Literotica, it's about the poor guy who killed himself. No wonder I don't participate in News & Issues threads much, they constantly forget the issue and devolve into bullshit. (Speaking generally here, not targeting anybody.)

Fine. We'll just give him a pass on insulting anybody he damn well pleases and women in general.

I for one don't need this shit any longer. You win, asshole. I quit. I'm the fuck out of this forum.

Hope y'all enjoy each others fine company.

P. S. Asshole: She always thought you were a freakin idiot and could have cared less what you thought of her.

 

[Wolfman1982]

Etoile: from the get-go of all the threads I have posted in this part of the forum, my intentions were not to ruin any kind of serious discussion, but I will not proclaim innocence that I did not go into the cave of a lioness and start the fire, cause that I did. But first after the first paw or claw came from the opposite corner. Cause my main intentions of posting the articles is getting a healthy and good discussion going, and not the bickering and in-fight there has been.

 

[Wolfman1982]

People, I have just found the atrocities I talked about earlier in this thread that DK did, has also been done in the US until 1979

Sterilisation: North Carolina grapples with legacy

reddits title was: More than 60,000 Americans were forcibly sterilized for being poor, epileptic or otherwise "feeble-minded", or of "undesirable ethnicity" as recently as 1979

 

[Etoile]

Fine. We'll just give him a pass on insulting anybody he damn well pleases and women in general.

I for one don't need this shit any longer. You win, asshole. I quit. I'm the fuck out of this forum.

Hope y'all enjoy each others fine company.

P. S. Asshole: She always thought you were a freakin idiot and could have cared less what you thought of her.

I don't know why people are so resistant to the Ignore button.

 

[Wolfman1982]

I don't know why people are so resistant to the Ignore button.

If the "asshole" is allowed to at least try to explain why some people are resistant to the ignore button. Then it is because it basically does not work as an ignore button. Okay that did perhaps not too much sense, but let me be a bit more abstract/clear in my words. if you have a cell phone(some cell phones anyway), you can put some people on total ignore and block their calls. And you will not see them at all on your phone. I did that with a neighbour of mine some years ago, cause he would not understand some simple rules about privacy. So I blocked him the fuck out, and lo and behold.
I got zero stuff from him. But on this forum, the ignore button only makes you "censor/collapse" the persons message/post, and NOT make them invisible to you. I hope that makes sense .

 

[Stella_Omega]

But on this forum, the ignore button only makes you "censor/collapse" the persons message/post, and NOT make them invisible to you.

He's right about this. There is a plugin for firefox that gives a far far better ignore, but it has never been updated and doesn't work with the latest version of ff.

 

[blade_rocknut]

*laughs*


I just iggied / uniggied someone in the past few days. Seeing their post; especially right after you own is the worst temptation!

 

[Etoile]

I really hate that this thread has gone so far off-topic, because it feels like we're disrespecting the memory of the guy the thread is supposed to be about, Kirk Andrew Murphy.

Wolfman, can you possibly get a handle on things and try to not always start trouble? And then if trouble starts, you could ignore it. That would keep threads a lot better on topic. I know you like to stand up for yourself, but maybe just try not to derail threads with the bullshit, okay? If the ignore function doesn't work for you, try to use the one in your brain instead. That's the one I use on people I don't like.

 

[girlsmiley]

Fine. We'll just give him a pass on insulting anybody he damn well pleases and women in general.

I for one don't need this shit any longer. You win, asshole. I quit. I'm the fuck out of this forum.

Hope y'all enjoy each others fine company.

P. S. Asshole: She always thought you were a freakin idiot and could have cared less what you thought of her.

Don't quit over some asshole, Amy!


Wolfman:
you ALWAYS want to argue your way around the facts
you're constantly apologizing
THINK of what is appropriate BEFORE posting

this for example

Damn, I think reddit for once got their shit wrong. Cause it seems to me ultimately it was the mothers fault, even though it was a state funded project. Damn that mother was mentally stupid in this case. But the case and project was still pretty fucked up, to say at least.

If you want to post an article, the least you could do is fucking read it first!

Don't just type out any old bullshit and then apologize!!!


And when Etoile asked you to not bring her into it you reply with

Actually, you are a great moderator. So it is an absolute pleasure when I am bringing "you" into it. Since you are a voice of reason, and can point out. That even though I am so-called an asshole, then even assholes can make honest mistakes.

When someone asks you to not bring them into it, you don't say,
"no I will, it's an absolute pleasure"

WTF???

It's no wonder most people don't bother voicing facts and/or opinions on the news and issues board. It's fucking mental.

 

[Etoile]

Don't quit over some asshole, Amy!


Wolfman:
you ALWAYS want to argue your way around the facts
you're constantly apologizing
THINK of what is appropriate BEFORE posting

this for example

If you want to post an article, the least you could do is fucking read it first!

Don't just type out any old bullshit and then apologize!!!


And when Etoile asked you to not bring her into it you reply with



When someone asks you to not bring them into it, you don't say,
"no I will, it's an absolute pleasure"

WTF???

It's no wonder most people don't bother voicing facts and/or opinions on the news and issues board. It's fucking mental.

QFT!!

 

[Wolfman1982]

girlsmiley: welcome . The party is sadly over. But if you want to argue the real matter of the article, then I will gladly discuss it without going ballistic.
Cause my opinion is still unchanged that some of the blame is mothers fault. And yes, I did an honest mistake , when it comes to overlooking one single word, and that was the word father in the original article. But I take full responsibility for fucking some of this thread up.

 

[girlsmiley]

girlsmiley: welcome .
Listen bro, you need some advice, ok?
I'm here for you, ok?
That's what GLBT is all about.

And you're not even associated, is that right?

You're welcome
I'm more than welcome
Been a lesbian since i was knee high to a grasshopper

you're not even gay are you?

The party is sadly over.
What party? Sad party you got going on bro

But if you want to argue the real matter of the article, then I will gladly discuss it without going ballistic.
From that message, I get you think I'm ballistic???
Nope

Cause my opinion is still unchanged that some of the blame is mothers fault.
Own your mistake, champ

And yes, I did an honest mistake , when it comes to overlooking one single word,
a lot more than one word, bro. You need to choose appropriate language

and that was the word father in the original article. But I take full responsibility for fucking some of this thread up.
You fucked it up from the beiginning by not reading the article YOU posted



Look mate, READ what you post



Here's a song for you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSZVYZTze74