Tihmmnmmish's Cuddle-Friendly Fireside Threadcast

[annaswirls]

Cool! I just wanted to be sure. There are as many different feelings about comments and reviews as there are poets, and I did not want to inadvertently step on your poetic tootsies.

I agree 100% with your theory on be yourself, seek your own approval, and so on, and most of the reason I write is for myself, figuring things out. However, there is also a part of me that wants to communicate effectively. I do not necessarily want to "please" people with my writing. I want to know if the mic is on, you know? If the sound is coming through.

Musicians may play from their heart, be true to themselves, but they also do a "test 1,2" before they try to get their message across.

Again, it, to me, is a matter of communication. If people were not interested in getting a message across, of having some sort of interaction (not necessarily
pleasing" other people, but creating something that can be shared...then they would not be posting in a public forum, yes? I suppose you could think of it this way. Would we be typing our poems, in English, on a message board where everyone read Spanish only? Would we think about getting a translator so that we could communicate with our neighbors? Consider learning Spanish?

Not a matter of being good enough according to other people's criteria, but does it do what I wanted it to do?

We have mirrors. We tell people if their fly is down. Sometimes in order to really see ourselves, we need to ask someone for their opinion.

At any rate, I am babbling. I just wanted to be sure, sometimes it is hard for me to read between the lines, or even read the actual lines

okay bed. Thanks for taking the time to satisfy my curiousity

~Anna

heh, forgot about that one. That was a good day too. I think it was a precursor to the big light today; there is a tie between them.

Uh, you know, this is a lifelong condition, pervading all corners and pursuits and stuff, of which Lit is just one small corner. Part of what came out of that day's gathering, was imagining I could go way back and advise a me at the earliest age I could possibly digest it. I would sit that kid down and say, "now listen because this is very important. As you go through life, you must realize that there is not one single person who is under any obligation, to like you or love you. Nobody. And as you begin to develop loves and talents, and hope to produce, not everyone will like it, someone somewhere will be able to find something wrong with it, and with you, according to what light/perspective they are working from at that time in their life. So you have to do that. Yourself. You have to enjoy full approval of yourself and all that you do. Because the moment you begin to depend on acceptance from others, you're dancing to their tune. Then you're dancing to someone else's, then another's, and not by your own choosing. You become little more than a puppet. You cut those strings, and that allows full liberties on both sides. Liberty for them to express their honest opinion no matter how adorable or cruel it is, and it leaves you the freedom to consider it or ignore it as seems best to you or what you know of yourself at that time." And so on.

But I never learned that. Nobody counseled me or if they did I didn't listen. I'm trying to understand it now, a bit late, yes, but trying.

So to try and apply it as it pertains to Lit and poems and reviews and whatnot, I relinquish any expectations. Meaning, if you honestly read something that for some reason tickles your fancy enough to mention it, it is always appreciated. Of course it is. If you feel you really want to say something sucks, you should say it sucks, and not worry about hurting my feelings. Even though you might. I mean, you have plenty other things to do, and who am I expect a soft-touch treatment, unless you chose to out of the natural depths of your very good heart. I mean, as they say, everybody writes sucky poems. So... not the end of the world (at least not yet. 2012, is supposedly the year the world ends).

the voting? I've turned those off. It never really felt right, couldn't say exactly why. And the comments, they were helpful at the beginning, and what was commented on really helped. A few days ago, I entered the Coin-Toss Period. Heads, On, tails, Off. Do another coin toss round a couple days later. And that's no more than an exercise to attempt cutting the strings of getting too reliant on those/that.

So, I advocate the greatest amounts of comfort for as many of the varied individuals and their styles and ways as possible.

 

[annaswirls]

See, the whole approval machine is fueled by fear. And that's no way to go through life. Fear. And I'm finding, in stumbling steps, that if I cut those puppet strings, it kills fear dead. The fears seem to return in proportion to how many strings I've retied. And life's really much better when the strings are cut, and sucks when they are attached: real life and internet life. But after these forty-some years, it's a daily effort to really sever those strings and keep them severed.

Hm, there was more, but it slipped away.

oh this post made me sad.

I hope you can learn to embrace strings as a way of connecting, touching, experiencing, and not fearing.

My approval machine is not fueled by fear. I don't think they are at least.

hmm

I will sleep on that one.

Sweet dreams!

~AS

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Just curious: is this about my pointing out to you that the anonymous comment was actually signed (albeit cryptically, but in his usual fashion) You are allowed to rant all you want here there and anywhere, but people are allowed, I suppose, to react to it? No?

Yes you are and no it's not specifically you I had no idea it was signed which made me look foolish as I was obviously snapping at someone who knows a hell of a lot more about the subject than I do. So i was wrong it wasn't Anon ..... I've taken the comment down. But then on revisiting the poem I find I have another swipe awaiting me and it hurt which of course is what it was aimed to do. Extra hurts I can do without I've no need to go looking for more.

Hmmnnmm my sweet we went to a Country Fair on Monday and it was so hot we were shedding coats .. today it is raining!

 

[hmmnmm]

oh no! Don't wanna make anybody sad!

But see, O lovely Anna & Annie!

Perfect example: ordinarily, hearing that something I said made Anna sad, I would be sad that my meaning was misinterpreted. What was communicated caused sadness when there was no intention to cause sadness. But once I let those words go, I lost control over how they were interpreted. And based on whatever you interpreted, your perception of me adjusted accordingly, which I cannot and have no right to try to control. And if all things are in order, rather than be guided or pulled to and fro by circumstance, I can see where I am free to make a choice: 1) I can say, "well if what I said made you sad when my intent was to not make you sad, I'm afraid that's your problem. You have to find a way to get rid that sadness." 2) I can say that from I know of Anna, I bet we'd hit it off pretty swell. I like Anna. I wouldn't want to do or say something to make her sad. So if something I say makes Anna sad it would make me sad and I don't want to be sad today. So, since I like Anna, and I have the means to make her sad, maybe I have equal measure of means to help contribute to Anna's being more happy than sad. And if I can somehow help Anna be happier that will help me to feel happier. Because if Anna's sad, she may well pass that along to someone else. Someone else may become sad without knowing why. So if I can do something that creates even a speck of pure happiness in Anna, maybe she can pass that along. To someone. Who knows who.

Besides, I might have that wrong. the fuel might not be Fear. Fear might be a byproduct. A byproduct that appears when___ and disappears when____.

You also mentioned about the public nature of a forum/free story/poetry internet setting like this is. That's very very important. I won't speak for anyone else, because I'll guess such public activity is just the ticket for some folks. For others of us, as long as we can at least enjoy the illusion that we are hanging out in a quiet out of the way intimate lounge or corner or whatever, it's all fine. But if we dare get a glimpse of just how public we are, or how potentially open to a public entailing practically anyone in the whole world... now we have an immediate potential for Big Panic. Which can manifest many different responses: fear, defensiveness, flight, removing all titles, changing names...

Well. I could go on. I find all this stuff quite fascinating, whatever you'd call it.

 

[hmmnmm]

Yes you are and no it's not specifically you I had no idea it was signed which made me look foolish as I was obviously snapping at someone who knows a hell of a lot more about the subject than I do. So i was wrong it wasn't Anon ..... I've taken the comment down. But then on revisiting the poem I find I have another swipe awaiting me and it hurt which of course is what it was aimed to do. Extra hurts I can do without I've no need to go looking for more.

Hmmnnmm my sweet we went to a Country Fair on Monday and it was so hot we were shedding coats .. today it is raining!

Another chilly one here. I am wearing sweatshirt and sweater for practicality, and loose shorts for rebellion. A good day to crawl into a paragraph.

 

[hmmnmm]

and I see we have a slightly different take on some matters, neither better or more right or wrong, just different. I don't think of it as communication. For me it's more like... well, I like the table on the market outskirts metaphor, so might as well go back to that. So it's a couple tables and I got some stuff set out, stuff I made, because it's fun and I have time to do it. Maybe most people walk by, maybe of the ones who stop to look over the table, most of them will be Nah, nothing here does much for me. Fine. But maybe, maybe, maybe, someone will see some thing, the one little piece that they know would make a perfect ornament for their bookshelf or to hang on their wall, nightstand drawer or porch.

And Lit, even though the main theme is erotic, does offer about the best setup I've found yet, for someone who wants to set up a table on the outskirts. I mean, there is a Non-erotic category after all.

When I think of it along these lines, I feel less anxiety, practically none. Maybe once in a while, I'll wonder what I could do or make or present that might attract more persons to stop and look and take for theirs. But that loop of thought is risky to walk into. For me it is. For others, they'd manage to retain focus. I think here is where the communication aspect would come in. Which has a relation to selling. Because if you're hoping to appeal to someone, you're basically selling. Something. Selling yourself. Communicating pertinent info so to sell someone your visions, thoughts, feelings, words, etc.

I am the Worst Salesman in the world. I always fuck something up. You hear of the person who can sell air-conditioning to eskimos. That ain't me. I would fail at trying to sell eskimos insulation. Somehow, somewhere in communicating the insulation's easy-sell attributes, I would fuck it up. They would say, No thanks on the insulation.

Whatever that means.

 

[annaswirls]

but wait, "making" someone sad is not a bad thing! Look how much people love sad movies Beaches was a favorite! It is good to feel.

No worries, Timolicious.

I need to nap before digesting the rest of the post.

oh no! Don't wanna make anybody sad!

But see, O lovely Anna & Annie!

Perfect example: ordinarily, hearing that something I said made Anna sad, I would be sad that my meaning was misinterpreted. What was communicated caused sadness when there was no intention to cause sadness. But once I let those words go, I lost control over how they were interpreted. And based on whatever you interpreted, your perception of me adjusted accordingly, which I cannot and have no right to try to control. And if all things are in order, rather than be guided or pulled to and fro by circumstance, I can see where I am free to make a choice: 1) I can say, "well if what I said made you sad when my intent was to not make you sad, I'm afraid that's your problem. You have to find a way to get rid that sadness." 2) I can say that from I know of Anna, I bet we'd hit it off pretty swell. I like Anna. I wouldn't want to do or say something to make her sad. So if something I say makes Anna sad it would make me sad and I don't want to be sad today. So, since I like Anna, and I have the means to make her sad, maybe I have equal measure of means to help contribute to Anna's being more happy than sad. And if I can somehow help Anna be happier that will help me to feel happier. Because if Anna's sad, she may well pass that along to someone else. Someone else may become sad without knowing why. So if I can do something that creates even a speck of pure happiness in Anna, maybe she can pass that along. To someone. Who knows who.

Besides, I might have that wrong. the fuel might not be Fear. Fear might be a byproduct. A byproduct that appears when___ and disappears when____.

You also mentioned about the public nature of a forum/free story/poetry internet setting like this is. That's very very important. I won't speak for anyone else, because I'll guess such public activity is just the ticket for some folks. For others of us, as long as we can at least enjoy the illusion that we are hanging out in a quiet out of the way intimate lounge or corner or whatever, it's all fine. But if we dare get a glimpse of just how public we are, or how potentially open to a public entailing practically anyone in the whole world... now we have an immediate potential for Big Panic. Which can manifest many different responses: fear, defensiveness, flight, removing all titles, changing names...

Well. I could go on. I find all this stuff quite fascinating, whatever you'd call it.

 

[hmmnmm]

On the other hand, you do make a good point. Because, if that one person finds one little verbiage trinket I whittled appealing, that indicates that a connection has been made. Something was communicated. So in that way it's true. Now that person will know that they can come to this table next time they're in the area. If I know they will come back I can direct some energies into keeping the connection alive. Because we begin to know each other. We already do. A recognition drew we two together. So yes, in that sense you make great sense.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Am wearing the 'mature' head today and entered the world of creative critiscism ..... sheesh hope I didn't hurt anyones feelings! shhhhhh don't tell anyone I said that though! I just submitted a poem about pot lol made me feel all naughty which is more than smoking the stuff ever did! What our Annie smoking pot?! Goodness me what is the world coming to?

 

[hmmnmm]

And this:
If I have a couple tables with some Stuff I made, there will likely be others with their tables not far away. They got their Stuff out on their tables. It wouldn't be too far-fetched to suppose that we'll be checking out each others' stuff. Maybe I see something that someone did/does/made/makes, that I think is pretty cool. Maybe I'll say, "hey that's pretty cool. I'm curious how you did that." So then, crisscross influences start to happen. And, if something I made because a good influence, is one of those little trinkets that appeals to someone, and they ask how I did it or where I got it from, hopefully I'd be sure to tell them, "this guy over here, he's really good, and I picked up a few ideas from him." Now we can start having cookouts.

 

[hmmnmm]

and bonfires

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Do you ever think damn I wish I had thought to make that? It's so oiriginal and sweet why didn't I think harder and come up with that idea?

 

[hmmnmm]

Am wearing the 'mature' head today and entered the world of creative critiscism ..... sheesh hope I didn't hurt anyones feelings! shhhhhh don't tell anyone I said that though! I just submitted a poem about pot lol made me feel all naughty which is more than smoking the stuff ever did! What our Annie smoking pot?! Goodness me what is the world coming to?

you heathen!
you hussy!
You sweet
hussy heathen

 

[UnderYourSpell]

and bonfires

What is about men and bonfires? They have to stand round them and coax them to burn higher often giving the plum tree a good singe in the process. Chap over the fence put something on that he wasn't supposed to and it went off with an almighty bangggggg scattered the wildlife (and me) to the four corners of the universe

 

[hmmnmm]

Do you ever think damn I wish I had thought to make that? It's so oiriginal and sweet why didn't I think harder and come up with that idea?

well... A while back a realization made me see that this town did not have a local courier service, and they could use a local courier service. Got all excited about the prospects. Something to do that served a need and maybe put a few bucks in my pocket. Had name picked out, messed around with designing a logo... then somewhere I began to see reasons why it wouldn't work. Then more reasons. Complications. Began to lose interest. Put it aside. Forgot about it.

You can probably see where this is going.

Couple months ago I was walking around town. Passed a car, parked at a curb. Emblazoned on the car was a logo. You can guess what the logo advertised.

That happens a lot.

 

[annaswirls]

Perfect!

Thank you.

I think in pictures and this made it 100% clear.

I am doing my happy dance round the bonfire, basket on my head.

And this:
If I have a couple tables with some Stuff I made, there will likely be others with their tables not far away. They got their Stuff out on their tables. It wouldn't be too far-fetched to suppose that we'll be checking out each others' stuff. Maybe I see something that someone did/does/made/makes, that I think is pretty cool. Maybe I'll say, "hey that's pretty cool. I'm curious how you did that." So then, crisscross influences start to happen. And, if something I made because a good influence, is one of those little trinkets that appeals to someone, and they ask how I did it or where I got it from, hopefully I'd be sure to tell them, "this guy over here, he's really good, and I picked up a few ideas from him." Now we can start having cookouts.

 

[hmmnmm]

Perfect!

Thank you.

I think in pictures and this made it 100% clear.

I am doing my happy dance round the bonfire, basket on my head.

now that's a picture
(just a basket?)

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Takes off 'mature' head it didn't fit anyway

 

[hmmnmm]

grab a basket

 

[hmmnmm]

Just learned more. So many wonderful answers dropping all around. So many tastes and responses are learned, aren't they? But if one can get themselves shed of all the influences, and can really take circumstances and details as they come, and so on...

For example, went out for the morning stroll with the old doggy buddy, coffee in hand, looks like this could be bluesky springtime day, finally. But then I smelled something. Very strong. Very close. Skunk. Nothing else smells like skunk. Now, from the days of childhood up to now, the other people around tried to train me that skunks emit offensive odors. What do they all do if the smell of skunk suddenly attacks their environs? They make faces don't they? They go, "ewww!" Hold their noses, do silly dances, allow craziness to temporarily seize. And me, not knowing any better, not enjoying the luxury to step away from the fray and take a skunk emission one on one for what it is.

Until just a few minutes ago. Oh yes the first reaction was the learned reflex. It was close and strong, and it creation had been very recent because it wasn't, tehn it was. But then I decided to repent from that prejudice; stopped and sniffed. The more I sniffed and the less I resisted, I have to say that really, I don't see why skunk odors are considered so foul. I kinda like it. Heck, no kinda about it. I welcome scent of skunk. Maybe it makes it more interesting to not see it. It's somewhere, spraying its scents, filling the blue morning air and decorating nasal passages.

Now it's gone. Missing it already.

 

[hmmnmm]

then they would not be posting in a public forum

Saw this again, and something clicked. This is extremely significant.

Probably some peoples' systems can tolerate the public nature without a hitch. Others' toleration capacities are maybe more sensitive.

If I can do the "If I could start over knowing what I know now" exercise:

My Lit career has two main eras. First was curiosity whether I could write erotic prose/fiction/story. Or, more accurate, if someone besides myself would find what I wrote even somewhat erotic.

Which brought me to Lit and that first fateful submission. It wasn't the unflattering first review in itself that was so traumatic, but that it was so public. You know? So if I could go back and do it again, and as a wiser me advising an ignorant me then, not knowing the nature of the public comments and the voting and everything, just before hitting that Submit button, I'd tap myself on the shoulder and say, "ya see that comments thing? Well turn that off. And that voting option. Turn that off too. If you will take the time to peruse a little more you'll see that you can disallow anonymous feedback and allow only feedback that supplies a means to contact the one sending the feedback."

Then, if the first feedback had been so negative, but in private and with a return address, then I could, in private, and in a calm state of mind, write back, and ask if they would be so kind as to tell me what it was about what they read that they did not find erotic. Maybe, since I was new, I didn't put in the best category. Maybe it was something that simple. Maybe they were looking for something to jerk off to, and when what they read didn't inspire them to jerk off, they called it not erotic, and in that case, they certainly would be wasting their time. The reasons could be many. It could be simple incompatibility. Then I might not have gone to the forums, which are also very public. A better way would be to read a few stories, and find a writer or two I enjoyed and would aspire to, and just study them. Maybe contact them privately. Ask if they'd care to donate a point or two. Just a couple hints. If they'd want to spare a few minutes to check out my stuff, and offer a word or two of authorial advice, that'd be okay too. If I could go back, that's how I think I'd do it. Not saying it's the way for everyone. But for some it's the better way.

Same thing when the curiosity with poetry came along. What I did, was a thread announcing such curiosity, and the question was more like, "would you call this poetic?" And I will say that the reception was quite encouraging and positive. But still, I think, if I could start over, I'd just submit some of what I considered honest if ignorant attempts at penning poetic expressions, and leave the voting and the comments off. At least for starting off. Then go do some reading and studying, find a couple who did the trick for me, again, make contact in private. So on... Try to cultivate a more personal laid back consultation atmosphere. Like sitting at the kitchen table with a real poet, and we got our coffees or brandies and they're looking over my poetry, and saying, "well this line does nothing for this poem..." they could show me what they mean, maybe suggest something, or I can say Thanks, don't tell me, let me take it back and think about it, mess with it. Show them the revision, "Is this better?" Yes, no, maybe, etc.

Again, not saying this is the way for everyone. But maybe for some. If could go back and start over and do it this way, I think I would've gotten better, quicker, and suffered far less internal turmoil along the way.

Of course I'm writing this in a public forum... But, I'm not trying to construct or compose clever prose or erotic fiction or something poetic, nor seeking votes or public commentary. So it isn't quite the same.

But that's the rub, for some: the public exposure.

And, we can't go back. Can't even pretend to go back. But there must be a way to go from here in a related conducive way. That would be the next puzzle phase.

 

[hmmnmm]

this just in, just in time for bedtime: one can get some good guidance from the comments. If several voices independent of each other tend to echo recurring impressions, whether positive, negative, or neutral, that would tell something. You can maybe take a more focused approach in some ways: ignore or address the negatives, pursue or nurture the positives. Time and place for everything. But not necessarily everything at all times and places. That sounds familiar. All of this sounds familiar. Possible, very possible.

 

[hmmnmm]

Patience was sorely tested last night. You can learn about yourself by what things others do that really get on your nerves. Now, I think I'm a pretty easy-going dude. Whatever may transpire over any given course of time, at the end of it, my preference is for less hassle than more hassle, and less strife than much strife, less interpersonal troubles than a lot of interpersonal troubles, less senseless back and forth yelling than any, between anyone.

But sometimes it's the little things; little things that catch you off guard and successfully breathes on what you thought were dormant coals.

So I walked down to the store for a few personal goods, mostly habitual and unhealthy goods, like tobacco in the form of filtered sticks. But others were in the store. They had their needs too. And several of us brought our needs to the counter at about the same time. Two persons, who happened to be males, had arrived at the store in separate vehicles, but they appeared to know each other. All was well until they began to talk. And they talked while someone ahead of me took their time in meeting their store needs with the checkout authority figure who operated the cash register and the plastic bagging maneuvers.

I didn't catch the exact subject matter that bounced between these two fine persons. But one of them seemed to have developed an n'shit habit. N'shit. Seemed as though at every available gap in his phraseology, he inserted n'shit. And the gaps seemed to multiply as the seconds wore on. Long, very long, seconds.

I don't know why, but it really became irritating, and really quick. I'm not a violent man. But... it did offer an opportunity to exercise restraint. And patience. It was sheer torture. That's what it was. Fucking torture. Why, if I'd had a spare poem in my pocket... so I do begin to see how poetry might make the world a better place.

feel better now

 

[hmmnmm]

and it wasn't the n'shit itself that made me realize it was a good thing I was not packing weaponry, concealed or unconcealed. You know, if he'd just skipped a few gaps. Every third or fourth gap, an n'shit. More tolerable. Or, at least decorate a few of them: maybe add one fuckin prefix per three or four n'shit. But no. Every single gap. People like that should be sentenced to at least six months in a library. fuckinmotherfucker.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

"fuck" is my favorite Anglo-Saxon monosyllable.

But it's important to have variety.

Perhaps this is a challenge. You could write an expansion on one of their exchanges, in which you fill in every "fuckin" and "nshit" with luscious and erudite metaphors.

You're right, poetry can at least make your world and mine a better place. Maybe not the world, but we only have our individual worlds anyway, when it comes down to it.

n shit.