Too much estrogen on poetry forums?

[Guest]

a few points

I'd like to make a few points:

First, the way that "masculine" and "feminine" writing are constructed varies from culture to culture.

Second, a good poem is a good poem. It doesn't matter (at least to me) if it was written by a man, a woman, a third or fourth gender person, or whomever). Dichotomizing poetry into "masculine" and "feminine" does a great disservice to the art form. And what does this do to work written from a homosexual or bisexual perspective?

Third, what is all this about men being in the minority? Men dominated literature for quite a long time, and I don't think we need to worry about them being in short supply. Just as a quick example, we have Cloudburst9, SJ, Smithpeter, Karma's bitch (hehe... sorry.. it's too funny not to say it), Redwave, Rybka (I think that fish is a "he"), Darkmaas and others. I don't perceive there to be any shortage of male poets around here.

Fourth, what we consider to be "feminine" and "masculine" about writing often revolves around content. For example, in Western culture we tend to think that soft, fluffy, lovey-dovey type things are "feminine" while masculine things are aggressive, cold, distant, hard, macho, etc. This is a terrible dichotomy, and is often only a stereotype. Men and women (and I insist on this) experience all the same emotions because they are both human. They way in which they display these emotions differs according to perceived social norms.

Fifth, the question would then be: "Do men who write poetry use a predominantly masculine style as perceived by Western culture?" I would say no. In daily speech women seem (this is my observation, so feel free to bash me for it) to use more words like "we" and "let's" when talking, and they don't tend to cut other people off. Men tend to cut others off, compete for the floor (when speaking in a group) and make a larger amount of command statements (rather than suggestions or displays of support and attentiveness). Again, this is a terribly broad generalization, and whether it's true or not I don't think it can be applied to poetry because poetry isn't dialogic. You write it, and it stays that way unless you re-write it. There is no interaction between the form of the poem and its readers' thoughts, unless it's in the form of feedback. This wouldn't change unless you create a poem through conversation (which might be an interesting idea).

In conclusion, I don't believe that poetry written by men is always "masculine" nor do I believe that poetry written by women is "feminine". I think these are culturally constructed styles which are highly flexible, and can be used by any sex. As such, I don't believe we are missing any sort of a masculine insight in the poetry here (and the presence of male poets here at Literotica further ensures this for any who are doubtful). Perhaps, because of the current western bias that poetry is "emotional women's stuff" we are perceiving less male poets because we expect to see less of them. Maybe we are subconsciously dismissing them??????

Okay. I'm stepping down from my podium now.

Thanks for reading.

--Xtaabay

 

[darkmaas]

Checking my list and checking it twice.

I didn't realize that we had to be vigilant about gender bias in our buddy lists.

This place should be kind of like a party. Sometimes the women have taken all the soft chairs and the men are forced to stand awkwardly in a clump near the lavalamp. Sometimes a drunken slob wanders in looking for... whatever... and gets gently shown the door. Sometimes conversations are a kind of long-standing in-joke that can be annoying for someone who just wandered in and "is several drinks behind." It's just a party.

My experience is that people rarely go to a party (where they know many of the other guests), do a gender count and then adjust their behaviour on the basis of that count. (Oh god - 60% female. I better remember not to fart!)

I occasionally write. I don't write for a specific gender mix. I have a hard enough time spelling. Perhaps if I was more adept such fine adjustments to the writing might be important, but I don't think so.

I mostly read and certainly don't read based on a gender mix. Shit, I'll even read poems by fish.

Another thing to consider is that a lot of what gets "published" here is experimental and searching for masculine/feminine "voices" misses the point.

As a last point, I must offer condolences to Karmadog who is brave enough to post in an environment that is much more overtly feline than canine, but hey, sometimes the refreshment table is right next to the litter box.

 

[Mythos50]

Re: Checking my list and checking it twice.

This place should be kind of like a party... the men are forced to stand awkwardly in a clump near the lavalamp. Sometimes a drunken slob wanders in looking for... whatever... and gets gently shown the door. Sometimes conversations are a kind of long-standing in-joke that can be annoying for someone who just wandered in and "is several drinks behind." It's just a party.

Hey, thanks for clearing this up for me... I was wondering where the mess on my desk was coming from!

 

[Guest]

Re: Checking my list and checking it twice.

I didn't realize that we had to be vigilant about gender bias in our buddy lists.

This place should be kind of like a party. Sometimes the women have taken all the soft chairs and the men are forced to stand awkwardly in a clump near the lavalamp. Sometimes a drunken slob wanders in looking for... whatever... and gets gently shown the door. Sometimes conversations are a kind of long-standing in-joke that can be annoying for someone who just wandered in and "is several drinks behind." It's just a party.

My experience is that people rarely go to a party (where they know many of the other guests), do a gender count and then adjust their behaviour on the basis of that count. (Oh god - 60% female. I better remember not to fart!)

I occasionally write. I don't write for a specific gender mix. I have a hard enough time spelling. Perhaps if I was more adept such fine adjustments to the writing might be important, but I don't think so.

I mostly read and certainly don't read based on a gender mix. Shit, I'll even read poems by fish.

Another thing to consider is that a lot of what gets "published" here is experimental and searching for masculine/feminine "voices" misses the point.

As a last point, I must offer condolences to Karmadog who is brave enough to post in an environment that is much more overtly feline than canine, but hey, sometimes the refreshment table is right next to the litter box.

Very nice!! Well said! But um.. hehe... why are all the men standing near the lavalamp? Hm.. hehe.... must be the sex appeal or something

--Xtaabay

 

[darkmaas]

Confused

Dearest Xtaabay;

You of all people should know that the lavalamp is strictly a metaphor in this case. Your tawdry analysis of the extremely sophisticated imagery perplexes me.

There I've done it...used a smilie in a post. Not quite as much fun as losing one's virginity but we take our pleasures where we find them.