Torture & BDSM

[Netzach]

I actually find quite the opposite, a distaste for any kind of play that doesn't seem "hard" enough or challenging enough. A mentality that makes scrotal inflation as common as a blowjob.

Frankly, that contributes more to my boredom than feeling limited by people who don't want to play really hard.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

"Torture"

What a word!

It brings all sorts of wonderful images to my mind. Red hot pokers and branding....
Tongs and pliers and ripped off fingernails...
Skin sliced off living victims...
Battered, bruised and bloodied faces...
Bellies sliced open and entrails hooked on a dowel, slowly winding them out of the body...
*closes his eyes and shivers*

Gawd I'd love to do that some day... And I know some real shit-heads who would deserve every bit of it too...

Anyway...

WARNING!​

<Rant Mode ON>

"Torture", at least the way I want to do it, is definitely NOT the stuff of Safe, Sane, Consentual by any stretch of the imagination. But it isn't exactly encompassed by Risk Aware Consentual Kink, either.

People, SSC and RACK are not philosophies. RACK and SSC are not lifestyles. They are NOT approaches to doing what we do for anyone EXCEPT those who haven't bothered to do any serious self-examination and homework about this lifestyle.

Which in turn means that SSC and RACK used as mental crutches for a HUGE percentage of people who embrace BDSM, because the vast majority of people don't bother to really think about or examine what they believe in a critical manner anyway.

SSC and RACK are MARKETING SLOGANS. Nothing more, nothing less. They were dreamed up to be sound bites to make what we do less scarey to the vanillas. slave david stein created the SSC slogan years ago. I'm not sure who coined RACK but strictly from personal observation my inclination is that "RACK enthusiasts" are the folks I usually find in the "My kink is edgier, more dangerous, darker, and therefore better than your kink" enclave.

Whatta load o' horseshit.

Both terms try to get across the same basic ideas, that:
#1 - We are adults making decisions based on informed consent
#2 - We understand that what we are doing poses some risk of harm or injury, but we take steps to reduce that risk to acceptable (for the consenting adults if not to the general population) levels.
#3 - We are doing it because we and our partners enjoy these activities as part of our healthy, normal, loving/romantic/sexual relationships.

PLEASE! Stop confusing soundbites with a philosophy or way of life.

<Rant Mode Off>

And yes, most of the information we find readily accessible concerning BDSM is about "lighter" kinds of play. Which is as it should be. We don't want EVERYONE building atomic bombs either.

'Nuff said.

 

[CutieMouse]

*grins at EG*

A few years ago, I was having very rudimentary sorts of initial conversations with someone important to me, and the following question was asked:

Everyone knows the Safe Sane Consensual slogan, but not many people really go beyond quoting SSC, to consider how they view BDSM, what they want from it, and how to make their personal kinks come to Life... Suppose you can only have *one* of the SSC slogan's components- which would you choose? (fascinating conversation, BTW)

And I do agree about the nuclear bomb thing... as I said, had I come across most of the things I've been studying (for lack of a better term) the last few weeks, I'd have run screaming (or wandered into some very not-safe situations).

 

[intothewoods]

"Torture"

What a word!

It brings all sorts of wonderful images to my mind. Red hot pokers and branding....
Tongs and pliers and ripped off fingernails...
Skin sliced off living victims...
Battered, bruised and bloodied faces...
Bellies sliced open and entrails hooked on a dowel, slowly winding them out of the body...
*closes his eyes and shivers*

Gawd I'd love to do that some day... And I know some real shit-heads who would deserve every bit of it too...

Just as an aside, did you ever see the third installment of Silence of the Lambs - the one with Julianne Moore? The last scene and Ray Liotta's, er, brain?

People, SSC and RACK are not philosophies. RACK and SSC are not lifestyles. They are NOT approaches to doing what we do for anyone EXCEPT those who haven't bothered to do any serious self-examination and homework about this lifestyle.

Which in turn means that SSC and RACK used as mental crutches for a HUGE percentage of people who embrace BDSM, because the vast majority of people don't bother to really think about or examine what they believe in a critical manner anyway.

Hmmm...I personally do feel a need to know why I am drawn to something, and why I enjoy it, but must everyone think critically about what they want to do in the bedroom?

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Just as an aside, did you ever see the third installment of Silence of the Lambs - the one with Julianne Moore? The last scene and Ray Liotta's, er, brain?

Oh yeah... Hannibal Lecter is my hero and role model. I just wish I didn't like my freedom quite so much...

Hmmm...I personally do feel a need to know why I am drawn to something, and why I enjoy it, but must everyone think critically about what they want to do in the bedroom?

Must they? No.

But if they want to claim BDSM as a "lifestyle"? Damn straight they do.

 

[JMohegan]

A few notes on the history of SSC....

The words quoted in this post (in blue) were written by slave david stein and may be found at this link.

In 1983, stein served on a committee drafting a "statement of purpose" for the GMSMA (Gay Male S/M Activists). It read:

"GMSMA is a not-for-profit organization of gay males in the New York City area who are seriously interested in safe, sane, and consensual S/M. Our purpose is to help create a more supportive S/M community for gay males, whether they desire a total lifestyle or an occasional adventure, whether they are just coming out into S/M or are long experienced.

Our regular meetings and other activities attempt to build a sense of community by exploring common feelings and concerns. We aim to raise awareness about issues of safety and responsibility, to recover elements of our tradition, and to disseminate the best available medical and technical information about S/M practices. We seek to establish a recognized political presence in the wider gay community in order to combat the prevailing stereotypes and misconceptions about S/M while working with others for the common goals of gay liberation."

In 2000, discussing the subsequent popularity and controversy surrounding the term SSC, stein explained that: "the strategy was not to try to redefine 'S/M' itself as inherently 'safe, sane, and consensual,' something that seems all too common today. Neither those of us who drafted the statement nor GMSMA’s board were that naive.

We knew that the full range of real-life S/M — briefly defined as sexual arousal or gratification through the infliction or suffering of pain, bondage, or humiliation — can embrace much that is unsafe, insane, and nonconsensual by anyone’s standards. S/M involves powerful emotions and intense vulnerability, and it can be scary stuff. This must not be forgotten or swept under the rug in the quest for social acceptance.

The 'dark side' of S/M — the injuries, the abuse, the exploitation, the violence — was well known to us back in the early 1980s because we were still close to it. We hadn’t already had two decades of S/M education and activism, which sometimes have the effect of making it seem like a flogging, tit piercing, or mummification are routine activities for a first date.

We all knew about bottoms who’d been traumatized, or tops who’d gone berserk and sent someone to the hospital. The emerging iconography of S/M in Drummer magazine and elsewhere was very edgy, very 'noncon.' In the early 1980s, as again today in certain circles, being known as 'dangerous' was more of a badge of honor than a liability. Knowledge of S/M’s potential for harm was one of the chief things that led us to form GMSMA in the first place. The organization was intended to shine a light into some very dark corners.

Therefore, rather than saying, 'This is what S/M is, and it’s okay, nothing to be worried about,' the GMSMA statement of purpose said, in effect, 'This is the kind of S/M we stand for and support. S/M can be damaging, crazy, or coercive, but it doesn’t have to be, and together we’re going to learn how to tell the difference.'

If someone was deliberately careless or irresponsible, or broke agreements about limits, we didn’t say, 'He’s not doing S/M' but rather, 'He’s not doing the kind of S/M we can support.' "

 

[JMohegan]

A few years ago, I was having very rudimentary sorts of initial conversations with someone important to me, and the following question was asked:

Everyone knows the Safe Sane Consensual slogan, but not many people really go beyond quoting SSC, to consider how they view BDSM, what they want from it, and how to make their personal kinks come to Life... Suppose you can only have *one* of the SSC slogan's components- which would you choose? (fascinating conversation, BTW)

You started a thread asking the same question last September - remember? I do. Unlike most people here, I picked "sane".

 

[Exogenous]

hehe You know curiousity killed the cat.

I have to agree with you here, I would have been very interested in that conversation. Under no circumstances do I, at this point in my life, want my breast nailed to the board, but frankly I don't want to do a lot of things that I still pay attention to discussions on, just so I know the answer. hehe

Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought her back. Just like, be careful what you wish for...one might find any given activity horrifying but turns out to be joyously mind bending.

No, I would not want my breast nailed to a board. But I can appreciate the discovery of activities that once were "hard limits" turning out to be the most wonderful experiences, after the initial shock of the idea of letting go and submitting to such activities is achieved. Is it mind over matter? I am happy that I can learn from others' experiences on this site and talking with folks and find myself more open-minded to various types of scenes. I might even work my way up to real torture, someday.

 

[JMohegan]

SSC and RACK are MARKETING SLOGANS. Nothing more, nothing less. They were dreamed up to be sound bites to make what we do less scarey to the vanillas. slave david stein created the SSC slogan years ago.

We take so much for granted in 2007.

Munches, clubs, and organizations dedicated to an ethical expression of kink. The Internet. The National Coalition for Sexual Freedom. A global community such as this board. Widespread acceptance of a concept such as SSC.

When I first started delivering pain for erotic pleasure, those things either did not exist or existed in places beyond my scope of personal experience. I had the support of a few very close friends, and of course my partners. But that was it.

Geoff, you talk about making what we do "less scarey to the vanillas", but in the early years I still had a very significant "vanilla" voice in my head. The voice of my parents, my upbringing, and the ethical standards of the society in which we live. I was confused and conflicted to a very considerable degree.

So when I first heard stein's phrase and the rationale behind it, it meant a hell of lot more than a marketing slogan. To me, it was a concise and clear expression of the boundaries I was struggling to establish in an effort to wrestle with personal guilt that was, at times, quite devastating.

Even more, it was proof that others struggled in the same way, and validation for my sexuality from a source that (at the time) seemed most unlikely. A community of gay men.

I am, and always have been, immensely grateful to stein and others like him.

I understand the point made in your post, Geoff. But gratitude to stein and others like him compels me to point out that dismissing the impact of SSC as a "marketing slogan" is, in some cases, not entirely fair.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

I understand the point made in your post, Geoff. But gratitude to stein and others like him compels me to point out that dismissing the impact of SSC as a "marketing slogan" is, in some cases, not entirely fair.

True indeed. I'm not dismissing the impact that SSC has had on the community, I'm just disgusted that the "SSC Police" completely miss the point of where SSC came from and the underlying ideas it was originally trying to express in a succinct way. To the SSC Police, it isn't a way of getting farther out on the edge, and depening their understanding of themselves and their partners and the place SM can take us. It's a way of saying "Look! We're really cute and cuddly, we just like to wear leather and play spanking games..."

SSC isn't coming from a Leather perspective anymore. It's coming from a horney net geek perspective. It's the "Just Do It" or "I'm Lovin' It" for the introduced to kink through the internet generation.

 

[CutieMouse]

You started a thread asking the same question last September - remember? I do. Unlike most people here, I picked "sane".

I must blushingly admit, I didn't remember mentioning it before... I always manage to remember the most obscure things, but not necessarily the right obscure things. (sigh)

Thank you for the mini-history on SSC, JM; I've actually been trying to create a well thought out response to something you'd written earlier in the thread, but have yet to pin down my thoughts in an intelligent manner... maybe after I've slept on it.

 

[intothewoods]

SSC isn't coming from a Leather perspective anymore. It's coming from a horney net geek perspective. It's the "Just Do It" or "I'm Lovin' It" for the introduced to kink through the internet generation.

Interesting. When I first came across 19 or 20 year olds in D/s relationships, I thought, how the hell can they know they are really a Dom or a sub at this point in their lives? I'm in my 30s - but when I was in high school there was no internet. I can't imagine being a teenager and discovering my sexuality, and then having allllll of that information right at my fingertips. It's just an entirely different world.

 

[Quint]

..............

 

[graceanne]

*sticks tongue out* Snob.

A snobby dom? What is this world coming to?

 

[Netzach]

Nobody responded to my post. I want some validation, dammit.

 

[Shankara20]

Nobody responded to my post. I want some validation, dammit.

so suffer

 

[Shankara20]

A mentality that makes scrotal inflation as common as a blowjob.

all I can say is that I can do a scrotal inflation by myself, as for the blowjob, well, *sigh*


PS - haven't tried the inflation but am starting to consider looking for saline sources now that my eyes are improving

 

[CutieMouse]

Nobody responded to my post. I want some validation, dammit.

Validatevalidatevalidate.

Honestly your post and one by JM are dancing about in my mind, and I've not yet figured out how to ask the questions/make the comments that I know are hanging out inside my head...

 

[graceanne]

Nobody responded to my post. I want some validation, dammit.

LOL I didn't respond cause my response would have been something stupid like 'oh.' or 'i agree'. I've been trying not to post if I don't have anything original to say.

 

[Netzach]

so suffer

LOL

meee-ow!

 

[Netzach]

Honestly, I'm just kind of bored by the distinctions drawn. I'm not "edge" and I really don't care. I can be edge, I've played on the edge, it's not really that interesting to me. Interpersonal dynamics, confronting someone with the unexpected, cool. I like to confront people who expect something really out there with something really not, a lot of the time.

I just got off cuckolding my husband and verbally teasing two men. Nothing hardcore whatsoever about it. Can't we just do what we do and get on with our lives?

 

[graceanne]

Honestly, I'm just kind of bored by the distinctions drawn. I'm not "edge" and I really don't care. I can be edge, I've played on the edge, it's not really that interesting to me. Interpersonal dynamics, confronting someone with the unexpected, cool. I like to confront people who expect something really out there with something really not, a lot of the time.

I just got off cuckolding my husband and verbally teasing two men. Nothing hardcore whatsoever about it. Can't we just do what we do and get on with our lives?

NO YOU HAVE TO DO IT MY WAY! MY WAY'S THE ONLY WAY, THE TRUE WAY! AHAHAHA

 

[the captians wench]

Interesting. When I first came across 19 or 20 year olds in D/s relationships, I thought, how the hell can they know they are really a Dom or a sub at this point in their lives? I'm in my 30s - but when I was in high school there was no internet. I can't imagine being a teenager and discovering my sexuality, and then having allllll of that information right at my fingertips. It's just an entirely different world.

You know I've been strugling with this idea as well a bit. A friend of mine just collared his second slave a couple weeks ago. She's 20, and lives a good 8 hour drive away. But they are talking about her relocating here, where she only knows them, and getting a tatoo with his mark on her. I kept my mouth shut as I don't think it's really my business to ask, but I couldn't help thinking why he would take such a comitment from some one so young. Maybe that's worded a bit harshly. The other slave is my age and a very good friend of mine. She has a rather large tatoo on her thigh with his mark in it, and it's been there for two years now. Now Jounar and I have talked about branding me, but we've also talked about how it's not time for a perminate mark. And I've also been married already, but marrage these days doesn't leave much of a trace once the relationship has disolved.

Maybe this is just a pesimistic view, and maybe that view stems from the hurt I've had in my life after making what I thought was a life long commitment, but it just doesn't seem to me like she's experienced enough in life to make such huge changes. It is pesimistic, and I don't like it.

 

[Netzach]

You know I've been strugling with this idea as well a bit. A friend of mine just collared his second slave a couple weeks ago. She's 20, and lives a good 8 hour drive away. But they are talking about her relocating here, where she only knows them, and getting a tatoo with his mark on her. I kept my mouth shut as I don't think it's really my business to ask, but I couldn't help thinking why he would take such a comitment from some one so young. Maybe that's worded a bit harshly. The other slave is my age and a very good friend of mine. She has a rather large tatoo on her thigh with his mark in it, and it's been there for two years now. Now Jounar and I have talked about branding me, but we've also talked about how it's not time for a perminate mark. And I've also been married already, but marrage these days doesn't leave much of a trace once the relationship has disolved.

Maybe this is just a pesimistic view, and maybe that view stems from the hurt I've had in my life after making what I thought was a life long commitment, but it just doesn't seem to me like she's experienced enough in life to make such huge changes. It is pesimistic, and I don't like it.

Everyone's different blah blah blah maybe she's totally mature.

Ok, now that that's out of the way, I'm totally with you.
I was just talking to my stud today about how different my life is since I met him over 7 years ago, and how, frankly, I like me better at 33 with Crohn's and having done the prodomme thing and a million other changes, including a fantastic spouse, than I liked 26 year old insecure me, and how I feel like I'm on an upward trend.

There's so much ground that people cover in their 20's its absurd.

 

[CutieMouse]

Honestly, I'm just kind of bored by the distinctions drawn. I'm not "edge" and I really don't care. I can be edge, I've played on the edge, it's not really that interesting to me. Interpersonal dynamics, confronting someone with the unexpected, cool. I like to confront people who expect something really out there with something really not, a lot of the time.

I just got off cuckolding my husband and verbally teasing two men. Nothing hardcore whatsoever about it. Can't we just do what we do and get on with our lives?

Hmm... good point. I can get off on the stupidest things on the planet; I can get off on the scariest things on the planet... it depends more on who I'm with than what we're doing. (But in my head I do catagorize things which pretty much corresponds with my "degree of turned on anxiety" about XYZ thing. LOL)