Trying To Understand

[ecstaticsub]

So my question is, why are you afraid?

I am afraid I would hurt someone too much. That I would be too evil. That I would not be able to remain in control. That I would feel guilty afterwards and not like who I had become

 

[ChainedRebel]

I am afraid I would hurt someone too much. That I would be too evil. That I would not be able to remain in control. That I would feel guilty afterwards and not like who I had become

Or perhaps, you'd discover a new peace.

 

[neonflux]

I am afraid that inflicting pain, humiliation even emotional pain would be too fun for me. I am ashamed to admit it but I know there is this part of me that is very sadistic, dangerously sadistic. If I allow this part of me out I am afraid this "dark side" will over power every part of me. This sounds overly dramatic doesn't it? Hmmm, now that I am thinking about this I will admit that I really love watching BDSM porn esp the spanking and almost torture type of porn. I think I associate myself more with the Top than the bottom but I could not let myself do that. Maybe part of my enjoyment of being a submissive is participating in this kind of activity without having to worry about hurting someone.

You have got me thinking....

I can certainly identify with your fears. While I was never ashamed of having sadistic desires, I have been scared that they would overwhelm me. What is interesting is that, like BiBunny, I've found that as I've become more proficient at topping and gained an appreciation for the "art" and discipline of it, I've been able to take those lessons into my everyday life, as well. I don't have rage, but I can be very assertive, behavior that is often "interpreted" as aggressive in a woman (but respected in a man). It might also be in part due to age, but I am definitely able to assert myself with both more command and subtlety after starting to explore my Top side.

I actually think that the fear you have is good - it don't see how it won't NOT make for a better PYL. Goddess forbid you get in there and NOT care about harming the person you're playing with... Should you decide to explore this side of you, taking classes, learning how to structure a scene, how to hold the space, will keep you and your pyl safe. Your experience as a pyl can only help you in this regard.

I have very dark desires but I am also very loving - I have learned that there is a huge difference between how I might feel in fantasy vs. how I feel with a living, breathing person in front of me with whom I have a relationship/like and who is making themselves so vulnerable to me. As I mentioned in my previous post, and I know that this isn't true for everyone, I was initially amazed at the intensity of loving feelings that being sadistic arouses in me. Unlike Judiasm, Christianity, and Islam, Hinduism doesn't see good and evil as diametrically opposed but rather as two sides of the same coin. For me, BDSM has finally helped me to really understand this perspective.

Good luck to you however you reason this out. It is an interesting journey, isn't it?

Neon

P.S., the historical dungeon fantasies - hawt

 

[ChainedRebel]

...I've found that as I've become more proficient at topping and gained an appreciation for the "art" and discipline of it, I've been able to take those lessons into my everyday life, as well...

And therein lies the true beauty of BDSM.

As I said in my first post on this thread, I love the aspect of this "lifestyle" making us better people not just excited in the bedroom.

 

[Netzach]

I am afraid that inflicting pain, humiliation even emotional pain would be too fun for me. I am ashamed to admit it but I know there is this part of me that is very sadistic, dangerously sadistic. If I allow this part of me out I am afraid this "dark side" will over power every part of me. This sounds overly dramatic doesn't it? Hmmm, now that I am thinking about this I will admit that I really love watching BDSM porn esp the spanking and almost torture type of porn. I think I associate myself more with the Top than the bottom but I could not let myself do that. Maybe part of my enjoyment of being a submissive is participating in this kind of activity without having to worry about hurting someone.

You have got me thinking....

I guess I'm still kind of nonplussed because I also struggled with all these questions myself. That I'd do it for the "wrong reasons" etc. I actually find that some of my enjoyment comes from being a little bit horrified with myself on some level as I do a scene, especially humiliation, and ratchet it up another notch. It kind of comes to a head when my bottom is crying and I'm laughing my head off. I've found ways to channel my impulses so as not to get arrested and I've found *people* for whom the kind and loving way is NOT always the right way to do it all with.

Then again, I'm also confident that that's what that bottom wants and needs. You're scared of what might bubble up, this makes total sense.

But risk is erotic. Risking my own ass never felt quite as dangerous to me as risking this stuff.

Hey, it's your dark side, it's your sado, you get to do what you want with it, and I don't know - mine might be a kittycat in comparison to yours. I guess I've come to trust myself over time more than I ever used to. Now if only I can begin to apply this confidence across the board more...

 

[Netzach]

I actually think that the fear you have is good - it don't see how it won't NOT make for a better PYL. Goddess forbid you get in there and NOT care about harming the person you're playing with...

Yeah, but the world doesn't end if you look a person in the eye and inform them "I don't give a shit about YOU" What if no one dies, nothing breaks - they just get hard or wet or catharsis, and you're still an OK person? Yes, a selfish asshole, yes a heart of gold, just OK.


I'm beginning to think that real cruelty, so absent from SM, can have a place and a time. Scary shit for most people, but currently this is where it gets interesting.

I've seen as MANY people, more Doms/Tops/Mistresses etc. held back by their own fears and innate sense of right/wrong to the detriment of their subs/bottoms as I have dangerous dickweeds who have careless accidents. Actually more. I think maybe it's time to pay attention to ourselves beyond safety - I actually feel that part of my ownership responsibility entails giving myself and my slave a *sense* of risk and edge and challenge.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

<Snip> I'm beginning to think that real cruelty, so absent from SM, can have a place and a time. Scary shit for most people, but currently this is where it gets interesting.

I've seen as MANY people, more Doms/Tops/Mistresses etc. held back by their own fears and innate sense of right/wrong to the detriment of their subs/bottoms as I have dangerous dickweeds who have careless accidents. Actually more. I think maybe it's time to pay attention to ourselves beyond safety - I actually feel that part of my ownership responsibility entails giving myself and my slave a *sense* of risk and edge and challenge.

Brilliant. Absotively, posilutely brilliant.

 

[neonflux]

Yeah, but the world doesn't end if you look a person in the eye and inform them "I don't give a shit about YOU" What if no one dies, nothing breaks - they just get hard or wet or catharsis, and you're still an OK person? Yes, a selfish asshole, yes a heart of gold, just OK.


I'm beginning to think that real cruelty, so absent from SM, can have a place and a time. Scary shit for most people, but currently this is where it gets interesting.

I've seen as MANY people, more Doms/Tops/Mistresses etc. held back by their own fears and innate sense of right/wrong to the detriment of their subs/bottoms as I have dangerous dickweeds who have careless accidents. Actually more. I think maybe it's time to pay attention to ourselves beyond safety - I actually feel that part of my ownership responsibility entails giving myself and my slave a *sense* of risk and edge and challenge.

First, you had me LOL at your first paragraph. Was it you who posted in another thread about (finishing sentence) suggesting to someone that you could do anything to them after they were bound and helpless?

Am also responding to your response to ecstaticsub in what I write next. I do understand the cruelty you speak of, but I am not there yet. A while back I took a class on one's Dominant "Personas." (I know, it sounds so northern california new-agie, LOL.) my primary persona is the crone/guide/priestess and I also have a very mischevious "Boi/Dandy" persona who can be teasing and mean but in an inevitably benign way. I play "in" both of them a lot. However, I also found one is extremely cruel, mercenary.

I am still NOT at the point where I feel comfortable completely acknowledging and accepting her, even after having had the opportunity to play with someone who would have welcomed the type of viciousness. I know from people I'm close to that such play can be cathartic for the person who's it's "victim" when, as you say, it's what the bottom wants and needs. Part of it is that I don't feel that I have near the experience and skill to do that cruelty well yet. However, part of it also does have to do with that "innate sense of right/wrong" you mention getting in the way.

Neon

 

[Ebonyfire]

So just first I have to say that Netzach and Ebonyfire can make me wonder if I'm really a Dom / sadist, but that's probably a topic for another thread. (But you two do prove that Domme's can be scary...)
The trip for me is when you've learned enough about the sub and gotten to know them well enough that when you're doing something with / to them and you know, just absolutely know, that you've 'earned' the right to enjoy them in that way and at that moment. Knowing that is what I enjoy -- and yes, that is where the sexual arousal comes into this for me. If I've gotten someone to give me that much of their mind so far that I'm 'sure' of that then you can bet the body will respond -- that's a guy thing, huh?

I don't know if I get the boy/girl brain thing.

I guess my philosophy is that I do not earn the right, but I have the right to do as I please because they have subordinated themselves to me. They do not know when and if they will get something they like, but they always know I will get what I like because it is their job to serve Me.

I think that the dynamics may be different because of the sex of the Dominant and the sub.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I'm beginning to think that real cruelty, so absent from SM, can have a place and a time. Scary shit for most people, but currently this is where it gets interesting.

Oh I definitely agree. What I find interesting is the fact that I can be cruel and not worry about it. It is kind of liberating. If I were a girlfriend, I might refrain from doing anything cruel to my partner. But a submissive makes it easier especially if my submissive is not doing things the way I think he should. In a vanilla relationship you may be worried that you might hurt his feelings or that he may walk out.

I do not worry about that now. If he walks out, there is someone else in the background ready to take his place and he knows it. I can be cruel.

 

[Netzach]

Oh I definitely agree. What I find interesting is the fact that I can be cruel and not worry about it. It is kind of liberating. If I were a girlfriend, I might refrain from doing anything cruel to my partner. But a submissive makes it easier especially if my submissive is not doing things the way I think he should. In a vanilla relationship you may be worried that you might hurt his feelings or that he may walk out.

I do not worry about that now. If he walks out, there is someone else in the background ready to take his place and he knows it. I can be cruel.

It's UNBELIEVABLY liberating. It's ecstatic for me. I've always been made to feel like kind of a freak because women are supposed to place other people first and not be violent or self-driven. I honestly feel entitled to give these impulses space and time and allow them to stretch their wings, as wide as they damn well please. I do my best to seek out these experiences with people who are aware of exactly what they're getting into. That's where I feel my responsibilities really begin and end.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I am finding this discussion very very interesting. I am still new to all this. I might have to give topping a try sometime.

 

[Lamont Cranston]

I don't know if I get the boy/girl brain thing.

I guess my philosophy is that I do not earn the right, but I have the right to do as I please because they have subordinated themselves to me. They do not know when and if they will get something they like, but they always know I will get what I like because it is their job to serve Me.

I think that the dynamics may be different because of the sex of the Dominant and the sub.

Okay, without visiting the man/woman brain thing -- changed out of respect. When it comes to that I'm just saying that as a guy when I've been through a 'scene' real life experience I usually want the sexual gratification and from what I'm reading that isn't as high on your list as mine.

What I'm not quite sure about what you're saying is how you get the point where they have subordinated themself to you without working to find out what they need and why you want it from them. I agree that once I 'have' them it is exactly what you said.

Maybe it is the difference between the motivation differences between sexes of the D/s, but it is an interesting dynamic to me. Thanks for your thoughts. I would like to read more of them.

 

[Ebonyfire]

It's UNBELIEVABLY liberating. It's ecstatic for me. I've always been made to feel like kind of a freak because women are supposed to place other people first and not be violent or self-driven. I honestly feel entitled to give these impulses space and time and allow them to stretch their wings, as wide as they damn well please. I do my best to seek out these experiences with people who are aware of exactly what they're getting into. That's where I feel my responsibilities really begin and end.

What I really like about being a dominant, is that I am expected to be self-centered. If I am not stern and selfish enough my submissives worry that they are not meeting my needs. The fact that I am exacting and cruel, fuels their desire to serve me even more.

I can be uber ME!

 

[Ebonyfire]

What I'm not quite sure about what you're saying is how you get the point where they have subordinated themself to you without working to find out what they need and why you want it from them

What makes you think that this is so? I never accept a submissive I do not know. Why would I waste me time on a stranger? I think I have posted numerous times that is takes a lot of submit to me. I am picky.

I have also said that a viable D/s relationship is one that is negotiated. So it stands to reason that I know who is submitting to me.

 

[denalirayne]

late-comer to the party

sorry i missed this thread the first time - - i only discovered it today.

i, too, have always wondered exactly what the fascination was in being a top. i, the bottom, am granted a myriad of sensations (both painful and pleasurable - - - hopefully simultaneously!), a carefully crafted and executed scene in which my deliciously wicked wife uses me for both our mutual pleasure. honestly, it seems like a win-win for me.

so, what's in it for her?

i would HATE to have to think about all the ways i could create a new sexual experience - - - heck, i don't even like planning our family vacations!

she, and other non-sadistic tops i've met, have said it is the simple joy of having another human as your own personal sexual beck-and-call-girl, but i'm not sure i'm convinced of that.

are there any non-sadistic tops who could explain the pleasure you get in being a top? i clarify the non-sadist only because pain is not currently a primary factor in our relationship.

 

[ElusiveDream07]

For those that top, does it sexually arouse you or do you do it for other reasons? I know this question sounds strange but i have a point... really. I ask because i have had, on a few or so occasions, had or chose to top. I really don't care for it for two reasons. One..... it does nothing for me sexually. I do not become aroused at all! On the contrary i actually begin to feel quite detacted and emotionless EXCEPT for (and here's reason number two) enjoying causing them pain/suffering and humiliating the person. I DON'T LIKE TO HURT PEOPLE NORMALLY. But when I'm whipping someone's bare ass, etc. and making them suffer other ways, i gain a huge amount of satisfaction out of inflicting it..... but NOT sexual arousal.... other than enjoying kicking their ass, i find it quite boring. How much i enjoy inflicting pain kind of scares me too. I think i like it a little too much... you know. I think i'm confused because while i enjoy it... it doesn't do anything for me sexually.

I hope i'm making sense, my thoughts are jumbled. Please feel free to ignore me.


pet

I can only speak of my undstanding and feelings.
I also enjoy the S&M aspect the arrousal for me is know that bottom/sub is so arroused as well, craving more, and also can be lil' scary as well wanting to keep going further and further, is a disapline. Is much about the power exchange emotions, and feeling for me. Sights and sounds wimpers of pain and pleasure........

Enjoying that moment where noting else matters other than the time and place. Is rather and enjoyable space.

So that is why there are Top/Bottoms...etc Different strokes....
But just my opion


Hope that helps