voting (again- sigh)

[coaster12345]

voting

"Someone did make a good suggestion that I will
follow. Whatever story I post next will have voting
turned off." >>>>> tonytony3

after 60+ votes, my story, "make me die a little" (part 2) had slowly
climbed from way back in the pack to #2 in the loving wives category.
three quick strikes from the "one bandits" knocked it way down. i
complained to laurel, who zapped the "ones" and returned the story
to the place legitimate readers had given it. two days later, it was
whacked by the "oners" again, and dropped to #15.

so screw it. i'm with tonytony3. in the competition for top votes, a portion
of this board seems to have lost sight of what it's all about. i didn't come
here to hassle with ego-sickies and fucked up sociopaths. i'm not going
back after every submission to wrestle "one bandits" on laurel's living
room rug. if the voting can't be controlled and regularly monitored, i'll
take no vote at all.

from now on--- at least until this problem can be remedied--- the vote option
will be off on any/all of the stories i post. and i urge other writers who care
about their work to do the same. perhaps, when the top lists are topped
by 13 year old wankograms, as they inevitably will be if the rest of us simply
renounce the vote completely and let the scum rise to the surface, it will
become apparent to all that the voting system needs either major overhaul
or abolition.

coaster12345@aol.com

 

[Guest]

There is a flip side to this question. Far more fives are awarded than are deserved. The majority should only get three’s, some fours and only the cream of the crop should get fives. The stupid practice of rewarding vandals makes a mockery of the voting on both ends of the scale.

 

[M.A.Thompson]

There is a flip side to this question. Far more fives are awarded than are deserved. The majority should only get three’s, some fours and only the cream of the crop should get fives. The stupid practice of rewarding vandals makes a mockery of the voting on both ends of the scale.

While this is true, a poor story that undeservedly gets very high marks sending it to the upper echelon of the top list will most likely be voted back down again by the readers who go to there expecting only quality work. Where as the great story that gets sabotaged to oblivion will get lost in the mix and will have that much more difficulty finding readers who will vote it back up the list where it belongs.

 

[Pookie]

Re: Re: Is the Big Bad BDSM Troll Gone For Good?

Here's my theory:

Part of the discrepancy may be that the great majority of people who write incest stories don't actually practice incest. On the other hand, in the BDSM category, there are some writers who actually practice that lifestyle and some who do not.

Those non-BDSMers often don't realize that the BDSM lifestyle is complex and revolves much more around control and submission than it does around giving and receiving pain. Therefore, many stories end up in the BDSM category because the non-BDSM author wrote a story that includes black leather and spanking.

Well, along come the practicing BDSMers to read these stories. They see that the story is completely inaccurate and vote down accordingly. Makes sense, doesn't it?

I agree with your theory. I think each category has its own specific problems.

The problem I believe that "incest" writers have involves readers that do not like incest stories at all. Its amazing the extremes I get in the feedback from readers. Most of it is positive with helpful comments and suggestions. Even most of the negative feedback has been of a "helpful" nature with helpful comments. But I also receive feedback from some that see me as very evil because I write incest stories. The biggest majority of incest writers probably do not practice incest. It is just another "fetish" (I use that term loosely). I imagine some "loving wives" writers get hateful feedback at times because of how their story ends (someone may hate that the wife is getting away with cheating, etc.).

Some readers forget that its just a story.

Maybe it would be helpful if the "new stories" page was setup so that if you wanted to look at new incest stories, you would click on that link and see the new incest stories for the past number of days. Same could be done for each category. I wonder if listing all the new stories together as they are now actually encourages readers to pull up stories they do not care for and give a low score because it is right below/above the type story they do like. If I had to click on a link to pull up the category "new incest stories" and I was not the type person that read those kind, I probably would not even go to that link. That might help reduce much of the "1's" that are given just because someone doesn't like that category.

Just my thoughts.

 

[MathGirl]

Voting

I've posted a few stories here, and at first I was disturbed by the voting. I think all neophyte writers think their material deserves a '6' on a scale of 1-5. My bubble was quickly burst.

There are undoubtedly some writers (not YOU, gently reader) who will lowball others' work to make their own seem better. If you allow this to affect you, though, it will drive you crazy.

I've found that after a couple of weeks, enough votes accumulate so that a few low scores have little effect. Reading through some of the stories posted, I have become convinced that good material gets good response. Of course some of the "I kiked down the dor an cummed in her fase" stories are still crowd pleasers. No accounting for taste, folks.

I continue to allow voting on my little stories because it's fun. After all, what the hell are we all doing here?

Diane

 

[Bob Waters]

I don't know, I for one find that the red H draws 1's like flies.

The world is full of people that are waiting to drag down anyone that pops his head up above the rest. This is just an example.

 

[Singularity]

BDSM Versus Incest and Others

Whispersecret and Pookie-grrl offered their analyses of why many BDSM stories fare worse than Incest ones do, but I don't see how they tie together with the category comparisons.

Incest gets consitently higher overall scores than BDSM for the top-rated stories, and are often among the highest scoring stories on the site, so those who detest Incest are apparently not doing a very good job of "1"-ing the Incest authors.

And I can understand the BDSM practitioners downvoting BDSM stories that just have some simplistic whack-and-crack pain in them. But shouldn't that result in the really good BDSM stories rising to the top and getting scores that rank up there with Incest, Loving Wives, etc?

I have never seen a D/s story remain above a 4.6 after it gets past its initial burst of votes. The top scores always settle down (after the 1-troll went away or got a lot more subtle) to 4.4-4.6. Now, I am not complaining about those kinds of scores. They re very good.

I still think there is something distinctly different in the culture of the voters in the different categories, that I don't have a good explanation for yet.

 

[MathGirl]

vote-category

I'm fairly new at this, but I can make one observation about voting in categories. I have posted 17 little stories. Six of them are in 'First Time' and they are all in the top 30 in voting.

The others are mainly out of sight. They're buried down there somewhere in 'Erotic Coupling' etc.

Are 'First Time' readers just generous voters? I don't think the stories of mine that were posted there were anything special. In fact, the two or three I thought were my best were put in other categories and weren't very popular.

Maybe if readers had to vote with money, the way readers of 'mainstream' hardcopy books do .................

Diane

 

[Pookie]

Re: BDSM Versus Incest and Others

Whispersecret and Pookie-grrl offered their analyses of why many BDSM stories fare worse than Incest ones do, but I don't see how they tie together with the category comparisons.

Incest gets consitently higher overall scores than BDSM for the top-rated stories, and are often among the highest scoring stories on the site, so those who detest Incest are apparently not doing a very good job of "1"-ing the Incest authors.

I believe that BDSM stories will get a more critical look than incest stories because incest stories are for the most part pure fantasies. BDSM is practice by a number of people and is considered an art by those devoted to it. Those devoted to it will be much more critical of BDSM writers if they feel that the writers are not informed.

I don't believe that there are a large number of people "1"-ing any of the categories. The problem is that when you have only 30-50 votes, a single "1" can have a dramatic affect on your overall score.

I still think there is something distinctly different in the culture of the voters in the different categories, that I don't have a good explanation for yet.

I agree. I don't quite know how to explain it myself either. Incest is oriented in fantasy whereas BDSM will have more practitioners. Lesbian stories certainly is geared to a specific group and writers not aware of specific issues will suffer when they are scored. Loving wives, erotic encounters and group sex will have readers with various backgrounds. Other categories will have their own specific readers.

I am not a big BDSM reader but I do read stories in that category at times. If I enjoy the story, I may well give it a 5. But I am extremely hesitant to score below a 5 because I don't want my natural bias to affect someone's score. Just because the story is "not my thing", I am not going to penalize an author for what may be a great story to the intended audience. If the story doesn't appeal to me, I usually don't give it a score unless it has very obvious flaws.

 

[Guest]

voting, literotica and ice skating

This thread has been very helpful to me. Until I submitted my first story I didn't have a clue-- really, I didn't even notice-- what the number with each story was... I guess I was just focused on getting to some hot erotica. I did vote for some stories, but tended to just send fives to the ones I really liked (read "got off on"). I was careful not to be negative just because of a personal preference... e.g. anal sex being a turn off.

Ice skating has "technical" and "artistic" scores. Alas, literotica has just one to cover both aspects.

Perhaps a better rating system would be with three grades-- highly recommend, recommend, pass on this one-- and a "number of reviewers".

Thanks to all of you authors who write "the good stuff" and to Literotica.com for doing all the work to keep this site going and us all cumming.

 

[MathGirl]

Voters - Grrrr

Some of the feedback I've received from readers gives an insight into the voter mentality (or lack thereof). A reader will comment that he liked the story very much, but he voted a 1 or 2 because:

one of the characters smoked a cigarette.
there was anal sex.
one of the characters was sipping a liqueur.
there was a hint of female homosexuality.

Oh, well, who ever said life was fair.

 

[coaster12345]

"Some of the feedback I've received from readers gives
an insight into the voter mentality (or lack thereof)."

amen, mathgirl. a few weeks ago, i got a feedback note on
"make me die a little," part 1, advising that the reader had
voted the story a 1 because the characters were smoking
hash, and he disapproved of drugs. another know-it-all
gave it a one because, he said, the grateful dead's classic
"dark star" was written and played by crosby stills and
nash--- "a rookie mistake," the reader remarked and i
should "do my homework." go figure.

coaster12345aol.com

 

[MathGirl]

f'back

I love the feedback in which a perfect stranger tells me about his -------- inch ---------, hairy ---------------s and says he wants to ---------- my --------------.

Well, what sort of comments should a writer of dirty stories expect?

 

[Goodguy2]

Who cares

Seriously, who cares what they say? I really only listen to people I respect as writers or are actually "paid" editors in the world of literature. I really wonder a lot of the time what "credentials" people here have that give them the right to pass judgement. Half the time I think they should be passing something else.

One problem with internet sites is anyone can make one up and post whatever they want and say they have been published. IMHO, a writer has not been published until said writer has actually received "payment" from a publishing company for what they have written.

Now, please don't think I am knocking writers here. This is a great place to practice your craft and get some notice. A stepping stone. But, don't take it too seriously when you get a response from someone that isn't favorable.

GG2

 

[MathGirl]

moderation

Ohhhhh, GG2, you are so .................. moderate. sigh

 

[KillerMuffin]

A reader is a reader is a reader is a reader. A reader by any other name would still smell as sweet.

I agree that the production end of Lit has little professional value. However, the readership end of it has quite a bit of value. Cash value for those of us who don't recognize anything else. It's a good place to build up a fan base to market to. My pathetic little website has had 10,000 unique hits and just under 100 people sign onto the list service in two and a half months of operation directly from Literotica. Not bad for a substandard site that's been up about two and half months.

I call this advertising opportunity for someone who intends to build up a consumer base to sell pornographic novels to.

Readers are fabulous people and I adore the hell out of them. From Mr. You Suck! right on up to the college professor who wants to debate hick vernacular with me.

 

[coaster12345]

" My pathetic little website has had 10,000 unique hits and just under 100 people sign onto the list service in two and a half months of operation"

great, killer! but what's the link to it?

coaster12345@aol.com

 

[KillerMuffin]

Hit the www, darlin.

Geocities hell, but someday soon I'll have my own domain.

 

[Jeannette_Savage]

A reader is a reader is a reader is a reader. A reader by any other name would still smell as sweet.

I agree that the production end of Lit has little professional value. However, the readership end of it has quite a bit of value. Cash value for those of us who don't recognize anything else. It's a good place to build up a fan base to market to. My pathetic little website has had 10,000 unique hits and just under 100 people sign onto the list service in two and a half months of operation directly from Literotica. Not bad for a substandard site that's been up about two and half months.

I call this advertising opportunity for someone who intends to build up a consumer base to sell pornographic novels to.

Readers are fabulous people and I adore the hell out of them. From Mr. You Suck! right on up to the college professor who wants to debate hick vernacular with me.

How do you advertise? I have been trying to funnel readership from this site to my first novel, and the editors won't allow me to even put up my book cover as an image (which I have all the rights to). HOW?

 

[KeithD]

Wow, you pulled up a seventeen-year-old thread to ask a long-gone mod a question? Such faith and resilience.

The answer is that, if you are a Literotica author, which you appear to be, you can advertise your novel here: http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?t=569279&page=89. (You can see there what others do with marketplace book advertising). You also can link it in your story page profile.

 

[Cockhole]

Spot on!

I find this entire post very fascinating and very indicitive of how distant we can be from our readers.

Voting is a reader-given thing. Readers give votes based on their own criteria--and it can be mystifying. Why does Tawny T consistently do better than Dixon Carter Lee when DCL is the better writer? Answer this question and you'll see why your stories don't do as well as some that you consider more poorly written.

You see, the average voter does not apply "writing" criteria toward a 5 vote. Some do, some are writing-interested writers or have worked with writing and that's what they judge by. Of the 500,000 unique hits a day I would guess that writing-interested writers and writer-friendly people comprise maybe about 500 of those and that would be a stretch.

Analyze your audience. 1. What brought you to Literotica in the first place? Your interest in writing or your interest in reading something to get off to? 2. Of all of the thousands of writers that post here at Literotica, how many of them do you see asking for feedback to improve their writing (either here or in stories or profile)? 3. Judging by the advertising, the writing quality of the average story with more than 500 votes on the top lists, and by the average story written, what is more important to the readers? Writing quality or sex?

In every pornographic story there is a tension between pornography and writing quality. The more pornographic you get, the more writing quality suffers. Why? Pornography is necessarily expository. Exposition is only fabulous in non-fiction. The successful stories have discovered the perfect balance between the two. The ones that appeal to the readers the most. They get an enjoyable sexual experience with the porno (not erotica) and they get an enjoyable reading experience with the writing.

Your criteria, while the mainstream in nearly every other part of the writing world, will be in the vast minority here. People judge stories with their genitalia first, their love of good writing second. Why? You can get off to a hack porno story and not get off to a well written erotic one. If you would give it a 4 or a 5 for writing quality, you should also check to see if you could cum to it.

Yes, there is voter fraud. No one disputes that. I just don't think it's nearly in as much abundance as people seem to think. I believe the main problem isn't with the 1-bandit. I think it lies with not catering to your audience. Quite frankly, we can write for ourselves and write what makes us happiest all we want, but that's not going to impress the reader who thinks it was okay, but I didn't cum, here's a 3. It was okay, but it wasn't hot, here's a 2. I came here to get off, you wasted my time, here's a 1. S/he doesn't care why you write. S/he only cares about what s/he reads.

Excellent. As a writer, what you have so eloquently described is exactly what I try to do when writing my stories. Part of of my motivation is that I enjoy writing, the other part is making my writing enjoyable to the reader. There is give and take.