We dont' talk about breasts enough

[MissTaken]

Pure, while I realize my post wasn't black and white with clarity, if you are going to argue with me, argue the point I am trying to make.

Which is this:

The link between breast bondage and cancer is inconclusive in that there is suggested evidence either way. One of the issues with the search was that sites about breast binding which leads to breast reduction are the sites with the most glaring warnings about a risk of cancer. Sites about breast binding for pleasure, mention it and some refute the evidence. Two different types of binding and several different of POVs concerning the risk.

And no, my little monchichi, I am not going to redo the search to produce the links.

You either find ME credible in my statement or you don't.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Just to be CRYSTAL CLEAR.

I love breast play. I love the fact that i've got generous hoo-has to do it with. I certainly hope that Sir will enjoy binding them up when He gets around to it

The ONLY thing i have a problem with is people throwing misinformation around regarding cancer and generous hoo-has

Let the safe breast bondage commence (with the help of MissTs wonderful link YAYYY)

*throwing Sir the rope*

~anelize

 

[DVS]

hoo-has and generous hoo-has? That's a new one on me. No, not the hoo-has themselves, but the term.

I know what you mean, just have never heard them called that. Does it come from what is said, when someone sees them?

MAN #1 "WOW! look at the bizonkers on that one!"

MAN #2 "Hoo Ha!"

Well, maybe not.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

*giggling*


I just remember giggling almost uncontrollably when my dad would say it in his thick south boston accent when he didn't think i could hear him *snicker.*

~anelize





the things we remember *shaking head*

 

[DVS]

the things we remember *shaking head*

My dad wasn't a talker. He would just look in silence.

 

[Pure]

Hello Miss T,

I take it no one is now saying that size (other than from obesity) is an issue with cancer. Nor that blows or 'abuse' to breasts causes cancer. Jarring Joe has nothing to say.

OK, you meant 'bondage' and say there's evidence linking it to breast cancer.


[Added 5/20/03 9:15 am edt: It occurs to me that you may mean that there's evidence of *breast reduction* leading to cancer. (And you're apparently speculating about breast injuries leading to necessary surgery for breast reduction.) There is, of course, medical literature on this reduction issue, as well as the question, Does augmentation lead to cancer. Breast reduction, of course, as studied, is for generally for treatment of hypertrophy, excessive size.

My search of medical articles at 'breast reduction' sites explicitly dealing with the cancer issue generally yielded NO reports of evidence that breast reduction leads to greater cancer risk, and a good deal of evidence that it noticeably reduces cancer risk; possibly for the simple reason that there's less glandular tissue. I can post these url's and articles if anyone is interested.]


Miss T said:
The link between breast bondage and cancer is inconclusive in that there is suggested evidence either way. One of the issues with the search was that sites about breast binding which leads to breast reduction are the sites with the most glaring warnings about a risk of cancer. Sites about breast binding for pleasure, mention it and some refute the evidence. Two different types of binding and several different of POVs concerning the risk.

And no, my little monchichi, I am not going to redo the search to produce the links.

You either find ME credible in my statement or you don't.


I did look at some links, including Susan White's well known essay. None of the 'safe bondage' sites (I visited) linked bondage and cancer.

So, my friend I find you VERY intelligent, well-informed, generally credible and believe somewhere you saw something mentioning the possibility of a link between (damage from) binding and cancer [Added: likely because of breast reduction]. At the same time, it can be said that no one has here produced or cited any medical evidence or even a link to a well researched 'bondage' info site or essay which links bondage-damage, other bdsm-related abuse or physical trauma generally to breast cancer. [Added: and there's virtually no evidence linking breast reduction or augmentation to breast cancer.]

Though I'm not a biologist, I think it's plausible reasoning that all kinds of tissue damage can occur, but that that's without intracellular effect. People get bruised, burned, bones broken etc. They lose limbs to diabetes. Toes to frostbite or gangrene. Yet, based on my limited review, these events are not linked with cancer. Why? They do NOT involve changes at the intracellular level, in the DNA [within cells of the remaining healthy tissue].

One does find some viruses and prolonged irritations, esp from certain nasty chemicals--like asbestos in the lungs, tobacco smoke in the mouth--causing pre-cancerous and dangerous changes, presumably through an effect on the mechanism of cell replication. Some sunburns, esp. repeated, set up dangerous situations and liabilitities to cancer. Yet asbestos, tobacco smoke, repeated applications of benzene and sunburn are not normal ingredients in bdsm.

This, of course, is not to say that there's no *unsafe* bondage. That's been covered in some detail. Too tight or too prolonged bondage does produce damage, and should be avoided. By the same token, if a guy ties off his balls long enough, they may die and have to come off, but that is NOT to say that his binding renders him liable to testicular cancer.

Best regards

 

[Pure]

Size again: Hoo-haas, headlights, Anelize, and all,

I did come across a passing reference to the issue of size and cancer in a journal article. (The article generally dealt with evidence of DECREASED risk of cancer following breast reduction.)

========
Cancer following breast reduction surgery in Denmark.

Boice JD Jr, Friis S, McLaughlin JK, Mellemkjaer L, Blot WJ, Fraumeni JF Jr, Olsen JH.

International Epidemiology Institute, Rockville, MD 20850-3127, USA.

Intuitively, breast tissue mass should be directly related to a woman's risk of breast cancer, simply because having more cells at risk would seem to increase the potential for malignant transformation. However, studies attempting to link breast size with breast cancer risk have been inconsistent. Limitations include crude measures of breast size, the inability to distinguish glandular from adipose tissue, and the confounding influence of co-factors such as obesity.

========

 

[Netzach]

I've seen the cancer risks alluded to, here and there for too-tight bondage and breasteses whacking.

Smoking'll do that too, you know. And my sub does that, much to my annoyance.

We both have a fatal case of being alive.

My point is, even if there's some inherent risk in an activity doesn't mean people don't/won't do it.

 

[JarringJoe]

I stand corrected

OK, ladies, I stand corrected on my statement about large breasted women being especially susceptible to breast cancer. The thought is something I picked up from my late mother-in-law, and my slut now tells me that Momma was wrong. Nonetheless she and her sisters went through girlhood fearful that having 36s and 37s did not bode well for them.

Nonetheless, both of us agree that her breasts shall remain off-limits for any physical play (other than erotic touching and kissing etc) as a part of foreplay. Yep, I hear the posters who say that many things are inherently dangerous but fun nonetheless and thus should be enjoyed. The inescapable fact is that my sub must be stung really hard in order for her to truly enjoy being spanked or beaten (and I mean to the point of incurring bruises or other visible marks. Let's be realistic: breast cancer is far more prevalent than butt cancer, and I simply do not wish to put my lover at risk by doing something to her that has even a remote chance of causing her serious trouble. So I guess her lovely bottom is going to have to have all the fun!

In terms of breast play, she DOES enjoy bunching them up and having me or another dom fuck her there. A great sensation for both of us, and a visual delight when my cum spurts forward to land on her face and open mouth. My point, kiddies, is that one can enjoy your sluts boobs without slapping them around.

 

[Pure]

// one can enjoy your sluts boobs without slapping them around.//

and you can enjoy your slut without slapping her around, too.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Re: I stand corrected

My point, kiddies, is that one can enjoy your sluts boobs without slapping them around.

Yep, that was MissTaken's point too. Safe Breast BONDAGE.

Now where was that rope??

~anelize










oh, and Pure, please dump your PM box

 

[JarringJoe]

True writes: "and you can enjoy your slut without slapping her around, too."

True, pure, very true, and I would no more "slap my slut around" than I would hit a kid or anyone else. At least one of the earlier postings did refer to slapping bare breasts (and no, I am not going to scroll back and find it). The only "slaps" my slut ever receives are in the context of spanking her ass, something she relishes to the point where she will deliberately misbehave so that she will be chastised, and especially when we have another couple or guy over.

I suggest that this discussion has gotten circular: some of you desire to involve the breasts in S&D play; others of us do not. Futher, I do not feel that anyone is going to be persuaded to change his or her mind.

I suggest further that breasts can be incorporated into all sorts of sex play that do NOT involve B&D or S&M -- for instance, ordering one's slut to contrive a way to display them, bared, in an unconventional setting. My slut was elevated the "accidentally unbuttoned blouse" to a virtual art form, for she knows that she makes me proud of her when she gives others an unimpeded look at her 36Cs. Exhibitionism might be a little off the sujbect for a B&D board, but it is something we enjoy in the context of a master/slut situation.

 

[Pure]

Hi Jarring,

There are several issues on the table. Only one is 'tastes'.

//I suggest that this discussion has gotten circular: some of you desire to involve the breasts in S&D play; others of us do not. Futher, I do not feel that anyone is going to be persuaded to change his or her mind. //

On tastes, it's not going to change, of course. On the matter of facts, those able to learn about the effect of different things on the 'health' of the breasts may do so, as you have, in fact, done regarding the vulnerability of large breasts.

Some of course do not learn, but that doesn't mean a factual issue is not involved. Some motorcyclists do not learn of the likelihood of head injuries, and go 'bare.' Maybe you call it a 'taste' to go bare, but the facts--the effects of an accident on an unprotected head-- will assert themselves in that event.


I like your ideas for other 'uses' of breasts.

//I suggest further that breasts can be incorporated into all sorts of sex play that do NOT involve B&D or S&M -- for instance, ordering one's slut to contrive a way to display them, bared, in an unconventional setting. My slut was elevated the "accidentally unbuttoned blouse" to a virtual art form//

It's puzzling why you see humiliation as NOT involving S & M. (I'm assuming something is going on more than the sheer fun of public or semi public exhibition.)

I appreciate your contribution to the thread, and willingness--not too common-- to correct a mis-statement.

J.

 

[MissTaken]

// one can enjoy your sluts boobs without slapping them around.//

and you can enjoy your slut without slapping her around, too.

And of course,

the converse is also true

adding the word "safely."

 

[s'lara]

And of course,

the converse is also true

adding the word "safely."

*an amen floats out followed by soft laughter*

 

[Pure]

Netzach said

//I've seen the cancer risks alluded to, here and there for too-tight bondage and breasteses whacking. //

Just for clarity, this statement *might* be read as "There are cancer risks from bondage and whacking, which I seen mentioned at certain sites."

That would not be accurate, afaik. But perhaps you should be read as saying, "Occassionally I've seen speculation [or assertions] about the possible risks of breast cancer from bondage or whacking."

That I've got no problem with. People speculate about the cancer risk of barbecued meat and margarine.

Quite simply no one has pointed to a shread of evidence of cancer risk from bondage or whacking, AND a good many articles discussing risks and causes of breast cancer, from genetics to (possibly) insecticides, have not mentioned trauma or injury as pathways to cancer. Further, breast surgery, which can involve serious cutting, is not linked with cancer in follow ups over several years.

This lack of cancer danger from injury, btw, holds also in my small survey on the topic of 'testicular cancer': there's no evidence such cancer arises from injury. E.g. cbt. My layperson's impression is that trauma and deep tissue injury are seldom or never causes of cancer (leaving aside toxic chemicals, breathed-in irritants, radiation, and so on.)

Best,
J.

 

[JarringJoe]

This might be a naive question for you sophisticates, but given that I have never been a "dom" in turns of breast bondage -- how does this rate on the "pleasure scale" for a sub when compared with, say, spanking or overall restraint?

I rummaged around in my memory this morning and I could recall seeing only one more or less serious demonstration involving breast bondage. This was at the Power Exchange, the San Francisco sex club, two or so years ago. My recollection is that the sub wore a sort of leather harness that severely confined her breasts, so that only her nipples and a small amount of the flesh surrounding them were visible. Her dom (another F) put clothes pins on the skin and pierced the nipples with needles. She stretched out the process for what seemed to be a very long period of time. The sub was gagged, so one could not hear any audible reactions. The dom would occasionally turned to on-lookers and invite them to fondle the sub's pussy and see how wet she was. (She was sopping, my fingers found.) My memory is that I found the display interesting but not all that arousing. Ditto for my slut, who opined that she'd "take a pass" on that particular pleasure.

At any rate, Pure and others, thanks for teaching me a few things about a phrase of B&D that had simply been off my conscious radar screen.

 

[Pure]

Great story Jarring J,

I rummaged around in my memory this morning and I could recall seeing only one more or less serious demonstration involving breast bondage. This was at the Power Exchange, the San Francisco sex club, two or so years ago. My recollection is that the sub wore a sort of leather harness that severely confined her breasts, so that only her nipples and a small amount of the flesh surrounding them were visible. Her dom (another F) put clothes pins on the skin and pierced the nipples with needles. She stretched out the process for what seemed to be a very long period of time.
[...]
(She [the sub] was sopping, my fingers found.)
[...]
My memory is that I found the display interesting but not all that arousing. Ditto for my slut, [....]

At the same time, a mistress with whom I've interacted herself got sopping wet from either doing or imagining such tortures. There is no greater power than having someone's delicate parts on the end of one's needle. The subjection to that power is presumably the reason for the sub's reaction you reported.

Perhaps fear of needles is a big deal for some, like your sub.

Speaking of breast torture, has anyone read _Aphrodite_ by Louys. I still recall reading that as a teen, my first encounter with serious breast torture; extremely powerful and erotic even though (because??) the torture, since it was a punishment, was taken to death.

J.

 

[Netzach]

I stand, or lean over corrected.

I did indeed mean that I have seen speculation, allusions rather than actual documented incidence of risk, to the extent that I'm convinced of a link between breast bondage /whackeroonie and the big C.

Personally, I do get wet pincusioning, tying up and especially (lightly) caning a nice pair.

 

[ammre]

My girls were feeling prominent in their hooters shirt (God i love taking off sports bras) so i figured i'd bump this.

 

[FungiUg]

My girls were feeling prominent in their hooters shirt (God i love taking off sports bras) so i figured i'd bump this.

"My girls"? *chuckle*

 

[MissTaken]

On needles

I have never done any piercing play, but a needle lightly drawn across breast flesh, bound or not, is very nice.

 

[concrete]

Okay, so apparently breast play and safety are boring topics. We have a number of short threads on the topic, it makes one wonder.

God gave me these two, lovely bulbous orbs and they are their own veritable playground.

So, rephrasing the question, what might you enjoy doing with a pair of "gifts" such as mine?

is this a trick question, or is this meat for go ?
In any case I'll play, ? how long does this game last??

 

[ammre]

Re: On needles

I have never done any piercing play, but a needle lightly drawn across breast flesh, bound or not, is very nice.

See play piercing has been smething i'm intrested in but something about the look of the needles you'd do it with, with the little plastic tips, looks too medical and sorta turns me off (me and hospitals are a big no no.)
I have seen corseting once (Piercing up the back or front of the torso and laging thread arround the edges of the needle to for a "corset") and that looked really intrestig though.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hmmmm, liking the look of the bruises from cane and teeth right now I thought perhaps others had some discussion they would like to add on breasts......LOL, and not meaning those who wish to profess their adoration of the female anatomy, though I am sure we can fit it in somewhere.

C