Wha-? Bisexuality is real???

[PricelessT]

Another issue I didn't bring up was the idea of a guy who enjoys taking it up the ass with a strap-on administered by his girlfriend. As controversial as my stance might be - I would suggest that still qualifies as heterosexual sex.

A lot of people, including a lot of heterosexual people, consider that heterosexual sex...since it's between a man and a woman. It's not as though anal sex is "a gay act."

 

[BuckyDuckman]

While I appreciate your views bringing something different to the topic, they don't hold up with regard to science or generally people's experiences (according to the vast majority of research). When studying sexuality, scientists and other researchers generally distinguish between sexual orientation (what they generally view as the enduring sexual attraction), sexual behavior (what sexual act someone might have engaged in) and sexual identity (how someone views their sexuality). If they did not, then the vast majority of those who identify as gay or lesbian would be termed "bisexual," since, according to various studies, the vast majority of those who identify as gay or lesbian have engaged in sexual activity with the opposite sex...due to peer pressure or heteronormativity (trying to be heterosexual because society generally treats heterosexuality as the norm and every non-heterosexual sexuality as abnormal) or curiosity, which is often due to heteronormativity.

Agreed. Defining one's sexuality requires more than observing their behavior. I'm well aware of L/G friends whom either experimented with heterosexual sex or lived a lie due to whatever pressures they felt (family, religious, et. al.)

I'm not suggesting a new, all encompassing system for defining one's sexuality.

However, I AM publicly lobby for straight, gay and lesbian people to acknowledge the existence of bisexuality as it's own classification. Straight people often charge male bisexuals as being in closet, suggesting they're actually gay and just won't admit it. I truly enjoy sex with men, but I know I'm not gay. Just as "lesbian until graduation" is so often applied to female bisexuals. And, as for our gay/lesbian friends, they'll reject their bisexual brothers and sisters as "untrustworthy" or "confused."

PricelessT - I would say you're generally right. I would say we're in general agreement. Additionally, please allow me to applaud you for not picking the low hanging fruit I've purposely dangled out there - I anticipated a backlash from the gay and lesbian community against the concept of bisexuality as its own sexual alignment. Instead, you reasonably pointed the gaps in what I was suggesting as being overly narrow. They were, as an exercise to encourage deeper thought.

I take this topic personally. I'm a happily married, heterosexual appearing man who enjoys sex with other men, too. I say "heterosexual appearing" because most people, in their black and white view of the world, wouldn't guess that I enjoy sex with other men, too. Some may call me "closeted" because I don't advertise my sexual practices, but then, I don't advertise my bank balance or earnings, either. People who pay attention would see how supportive I am of the LGBT community because that's MY community, too. Some have noticed that part of me. Most of my straight friends see that part of my personality as me being open minded. A very few of my LGBT friends have figured out, "You're not really straight, are you?" I think it's funny that I can't think of a straight friend who has figured that out.

I truly resent the push I feel from both ends of the spectrum that I need to choose one side of the fence or the other. In my world view? There's no fence. We're all people.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Another issue I didn't bring up was the idea of a guy who enjoys taking it up the ass with a strap-on administered by his girlfriend. As controversial as my stance might be - I would suggest that still qualifies as heterosexual sex.

A lot of people, including a lot of heterosexual people, consider that heterosexual sex...since it's between a man and a woman. It's not as though anal sex is "a gay act."

Again, we're in agreement. I would agree anal sex is not, inherently, a gay act. However, surely you know lots of guys who would say otherwise. If you don't, you're not paying attention. There are a lot of pinheads out there!

 

[speakerfrank]

Labels Part Deux.

So by the rational posted here, A gay man who has always affirmed he is gay but has never consummated his sexuality with another man, marries a woman and has children because that is what his social and religious affiliations demand, is by definition straight?

I am sorry, but I cannot accept the act of sex being what determines your sexual orientation. You are what you know you are. having sex with someone outside of your orientation does not change your orientation.

 

[stickygirl]

Not wishing to put words into BD's mouth but it's looks like there are two issues here that are getting confused.
1. Most people agree that a person's sexual status: gay, bi, straight is determined not necessarily by their sexual practices, but by their preference and/or sense of sexuality, thus "I am gay, but I feel socially bound to get married to a woman and have kids" is gay.
2. The problem that bisexual people are deemed as unreliable or that their sexuality is undeclared ( because of social stigma ) is a problem created by certain gays and lesbians.

So if gay men are criticising bisexual men for not coming out of the closet through embarrassment then, hang on, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black, given the illustration of a gay man, married with kids shown above?!
If bisexual men or women are having a problem with bigoted, narrow minded gays and lesbians ( and yes, they do exist and are very vocal ) then that needs to be individually addressed. Whitewashing hetero men who have experimented; or gay men, socially oppressed by a hetero society, is not the solution because it only attacks the symptom not the cause.
I've had my gender status questionned by gay men who thought I was sissy, and though it was done out of concern that I was confused, it was a wee bit patronising. Trans women have long been barred from the Chicago Womyns' Event because they are not regarded as 'born womyn, always womyn' yet trans men, who ID as men are allowed in. These are only parallel problems, not what you are questioning here, but nevertheless it does confirm that there are elements in the Gay and Lesbian community that try to impose and police what is 'acceptable' to their doctrine.

So BD - is your gripe really that bisexual men and women are only deemed unreliable by certain gays and lesbians because hetero folk are more likely to judge a person by their character, not so much by their bisexuality? Surely that is how we all ought to "judge" a person - by their character. A bisexuality label isn't going to convince one way or another.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

2. The problem that bisexual people are deemed as unreliable or that their sexuality is undeclared ( because of social stigma ) is a problem created by certain gays and lesbians.

If bisexual men or women are having a problem with bigoted, narrow minded gays and lesbians ( and yes, they do exist and are very vocal ) then that needs to be individually addressed.

Whitewashing hetero men who have experimented or gay men, socially oppressed by a hetero society, is not the solution because it only attacks the symptom not the cause.

These are only parallel problems, not what you are questioning here, but nevertheless it does confirm that there are elements Gay and Lesbian that try to impose and police what is 'acceptable' to their doctrine.

Yep - those ARE my points. Most straight people I know who frown upon bisexuality also frown on being gay or lesbian. At least those narrow-minded, bigoted straights are consistent. Stickygirl correctly points out my "sin." I'm calling out bigots in both communities by whitewashing experiments in sexuality as branding them bisexual. (Whether that's accurate or not.) It's sort of the "the one drop rule."

As for gay/lesbian people who choose to view bisexuals as "confused," I think they're as guilty of being narrow minded as the straights.

 

[haurni]

Okay, I think I see your point now. You're saying that many people who identify as either gay or straight could be considered bi on the basis of their behaviour (rather than their self-identification) and therefore they shouldn't get stuck up about bi as an identity (or if it even exists).

It would probably be better for us as a society to treat bi as the default position. The current reality, sadly, is based on reactionary and exclusionary points of view - if you aren't a, you must be b. But your position is interesting as a sort of thought experiment, i.e. considering the percentage of the population that have only ever had contact with partners of one sex.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Okay, I think I see your point now. You're saying that many people who identify as either gay or straight could be considered bi on the basis of their behaviour (rather than their self-identification) and therefore they shouldn't get stuck up about bi as an identity (or if it even exists).

It would probably be better for us as a society to treat bi as the default position. The current reality, sadly, is based on reactionary and exclusionary points of view - if you aren't a, you must be b. But your position is interesting as a sort of thought experiment, i.e. considering the percentage of the population that have only ever had contact with partners of one sex.

Yeppers!

(I added the emphasis to "thought experiment.")

Respecting other people would mean respecting their self-identification. I respect those of the transgender community and accept them at their word without them altering their bodies to fit their identity. If you're a trans-man, okay, be a trans-man and use the guy's bathroom, because it has to feel creepy as hell using the woman's bathrooms all the time because your body parts don't fit your internal setting.

 

[stickygirl]

I don't think there should be a default at all - I'd say another person's sexuality is none of your damned business, unless they chose to tell you, which in my case I'm happy to do. We're all happy to out ourselves here because it's a sex site, but if you go making assumptions about something that are both personal and private, you're likely to cause understandable offense. It's an assumption you cannot make.

We have one default and it already causes offense, so why swap one bad assumption for another?

 

[TomBoner]

I'd say another person's sexuality is none of your damned business, unless they chose to tell you ...

What if I happened to end up naked with a lesbian in my bed and she didn't tell me she was a lesbian because she thought it might be awkward?

...

OK ... sorry for the interruption. Just putting my version of whacko humor to a test here.

...

And for all the lesbians who have dreamed of getting naked with me in bed, just tell me first so I can set my expectations accordingly!

 

[BuckyDuckman]

What if I happened to end up naked with a lesbian in my bed and she didn't tell me she was a lesbian because she thought it might be awkward?

...

OK ... sorry for the interruption. Just putting my version of whacko humor to a test here.

...

And for all the lesbians who have dreamed of getting naked with me in bed, just tell me first so I can set my expectations accordingly!

Tom - you're a nut.

 

[PricelessT]

Respecting other people would mean respecting their self-identification. I respect those of the transgender community and accept them at their word without them altering their bodies to fit their identity. If you're a trans-man, okay, be a trans-man and use the guy's bathroom, because it has to feel creepy as hell using the woman's bathrooms all the time because your body parts don't fit your internal setting.

I wonder how often transmen get in trouble for going into the men's bathroom if they don't physically pass as men. Because, and you likely know this, transwomen often get in trouble for entering the women's bathroom if they don't physically pass as women.

Oh, and regarding our posts above on this page, again I appreciate your thought-provoking views. And, yeah, I definitely know that anal sex is often assumed as a gay male act, even though many heterosexuals engage in it and it's now rampant in heterosexual porn (which has contributed to an increase in anal sex among heterosexuals). So many people, even some gay men, think that all gay men engage in anal sex, even though research shows that anal sex is one of the least performed sex acts among gay men and that gay men often engage in other sexual acts instead of anal sex. It's similar to how people assume that all lesbians engage in oral sex.

 

[haurni]

I don't think there should be a default at all - I'd say another person's sexuality is none of your damned business, unless they chose to tell you

In an ideal world, this would be the case, just as nobody would care if you are trans or intersex or genderqueer or whatever.

I wonder how often transmen get in trouble for going into the men's bathroom if they don't physically pass as men. Because, and you likely know this, transwomen often get in trouble for entering the women's bathroom if they don't physically pass as women.

I've seen women go into men's bathrooms in clubs when the line for the other facilities is too long and they can't wait. Nobody reacts much, but that's the double standard for you. A man going into a woman's restroom raises concerns about privacy and sexual assault, whereas the reverse is not true (and of course the same issue gets raised about non-passing transwomen). I suspect that a non-passing transman in the men's wouldn't raise much concern, though I might worry about his safety simply because of possible transphobic reactions.

 

[Dyslexicea]

Let me start out by defining my orientation which is same sex, I'm a lesbian but what makes me a lesbian has nothing to do with the fact I have sex with other women. As I've stated before "Having sex with other women doesn't make me a lesbian, I have sex with other women because I am a lesbian. If I was asexual I'd still be a lesbian."

I'm not a gold star lesbian although I have not been with a man/boy since before I was sixteen. I have never ever had a real crush on a man/boy nor have I had a true sexual attraction to any man or men in general, don't take this to mean I was sexually abused as a child, I was not ever sexually or mentally abused as a child and the little sex I did have with boys was consensual. I assure you, although I'm of mixed race, men find me attractive, so my lack of desire for men has nothing to do with their lack of desire for me, at time men can be overbearing in the ways they express that attraction.

It seems to me that none of you are getting anywhere. It's really funny that so many of you bi people want to blame us, lesbians/gays for your problems.

If it wasn't for the lesbian/gay community being out and vocal about our orientation and sexuality we'd still all, including bisexuals, be considered deviant, psychologically disturbed people. If in the past we've failed anyone it isn't you bisexuals, it's been the LGB part that has failed the T, which thank god is changing and it didn't change because of us, it changed because of those who are Trans coming out, being vocal and telling the world their stories.

If you expect me as a lesbian to treat you just like I would another lesbian, giving you the same chance at having a relationship as I would a lesbian than become visible, get the hell out of the closet. The day you can take me home to your parents, grandparents, sisters, brothers, friends or even coworkers and say this is my girlfriend and I think I could fall in love with her and spend the rest of our lives together is the day I'll give you a chance. Staying in the closet, pretending to the rest of the world your straight while seeking a relationship with someone of your own sex is, in my opinion, being dishonest and untrustworthy.

As far as so many of you contending lesbians and gays believe a person who claims to be bisexual is really lesbian/gay in hiding is at least for almost all of the lesbians I know, which is a large number, bullshit and most of those who do believe that are older, coming out when that was a common belief but even among that group it's a minority opinion. I do realize it's a more common belief among gays but that is changing also. Who's to blame, the out of the closet gay man or the closeted bi man who hides his bisexuality from everyone but the guy he's fucking, in many cases even from his wife. If you hide in the closet don't blame someone else for misperceiving your true orientation or for even believing bisexuals don't exist.

 

[sensualpilgrim]

What the Greeks think

This is pretty funny when we look back at the Greeks' attitude. The classical Greeks have no problem with homosexual or bisexual behavior. However, one must understand that they consider man-on-man love to be just that, a behavior. Not genetic. The whole idea of sexual behavior as somehow divided into different groups would be utter foreign to them. Having sex with men or women wasn't an issue, the question of who's top or bottom, on other hand, is a big issue. So is producing children. The Greeks live in a society where small wars, famines, and plagues is very real and normal fact of life. Then there are shipwrecks and other deaths. Plus, most deaths of women are result of childbirth, so the father is often the single parent. So the men are expected to be strong and manly to be able to fight off the invaders and to resist diseases and to produce many children that can survive to adulthood, and to provide for them. So the people expect men to fuck mostly women. When a man want to have sex with another man, he is expected to be the top, the one doing the deed. To take it like a girl was considered disgusting, unmanly. Youths are different story because they're not ready for adulthood and need a mentor to open doors into the society and to learn how to be a good citizen. That was an acceptable behavior. Some people had wondered in the past how the gays were able to reproduce. The answer's easy, most are actually bi. And I'm sure that most who called themselves gay have some experience with women, which will result in children.

Only in the last 30 years, did the gays adopted the anti-gay idea of gay behavior as being part of their nature (the sole difference is the cure is not needed, as apart from the Christians who think it is a disease). Before the 80's, most gays defended their choice as a freedom of choice, that is, they choose their behavior because they like it, which is closer to the Greek understanding.

 

[PricelessT]

I assure you, although I'm of mixed race, men find me attractive

Dyslexicea, why did you bring up "mixed race." I don't mean offense by asking (and I debated with myself on whether or not to ask), but I wonder why you mentioned it...considering that a lot of men, including white men, are romantically/sexually attracted to people of "mixed race" (and I put the wording in quotation marks this second time because scientists generally think that all people are mixed with more than one race and often state that race doesn't exist in the way people usually define the term; they state that the biological differences defined by the term race are better defined by what they call "clines").

On a side note, and I mentioned this before on this forum: I'm a lesbian.

 

[haurni]

It's really funny that so many of you bi people want to blame us, lesbians/gays for your problems.

Staying in the closet, pretending to the rest of the world your straight while seeking a relationship with someone of your own sex is, in my opinion, being dishonest and untrustworthy.

As far as so many of you contending lesbians and gays believe a person who claims to be bisexual is really lesbian/gay in hiding is at least for almost all of the lesbians I know, which is a large number, bullshit and most of those who do believe that are older, coming out when that was a common belief but even among that group it's a minority opinion. I do realize it's a more common belief among gays but that is changing also. Who's to blame, the out of the closet gay man or the closeted bi man who hides his bisexuality from everyone but the guy he's fucking, in many cases even from his wife. If you hide in the closet don't blame someone else for misperceiving your true orientation or for even believing bisexuals don't exist.

The attitudes of both gays and straights are responsible for why bisexuality is seen as something 'not real' - because they think bis are wimping out about their 'real' orientation. Hell, bi people were probably confused about the same thing ("I can't be gay! but I'm not straight...! wtf?"). We're victims of binary thinking. The relative invisibility (and low numbers) of proudly bi folks who insist that they aren't being wishy-washy is probably our own fault though and we should no doubt have started making more noise earlier. As you say, though, things are changing. Attitudes are shiftin among straights, gays and bis, and we are coming out of the closet.

 

[Dyslexicea]

Dyslexicea, why did you bring up "mixed race." I don't mean offense by asking (and I debated with myself on whether or not to ask), but I wonder why you mentioned it...considering that a lot of men, including white men, are romantically/sexually attracted to people of "mixed race" (and I put the wording in quotation marks this second time because scientists generally think that all people are mixed with more than one race and often state that race doesn't exist in the way people usually define the term; they state that the biological differences defined by the term race are better defined by what they call "clines").

On a side note, and I mentioned this before on this forum: I'm a lesbian.

Since you asked I'm going to hijack this thread for my own use.

I suppose I brought up mixed race for the same reason you added your side note as a means of identity. Maybe it was my way of coming out to those who I interact with on the LGBT board. I don't really want to get into my life as someone of mixed race who is identified as black because that is how many others identify me. I'm slightly less than 75% European heritage, the slightly less being First Nation(Native American) the remainder of my heritage is African. My skin is not white, although my features are mostly European and my light skin color does give me some advantages but I do understand what being not white is like in America. I self identify as mixed race not black because doing otherwise would ignore all of my Father's heritage and half of my Mother's heritage.

As far as how many in academia define race matters little, it's how people define race that effects all of us. In America the default race is white, although white isn't a race it really signifies those of European heritage, I could use the term Caucasian which would be more correct but many whites reject people of the Middle Eastern and North African heritages who are Caucasian as being white.

One last point, being desired by white men doesn't mean they're likely to settle in a long term relationship. I believe the attraction to those of us of mixed race is much more sexual than it is romantic for most white men, I won't say that about white lesbians, the one I call my stud happens to be white and she asked me to marry her and we have a really wonderful life together.

I hope I've answered your question.

 

[robertreams]

If there were persons behind a curtain giving blowjobs, and their sexual identity was unknown, everyone who could cum would come.

We all know that the main sexual organ is the brain, so if you hink you are turned on, you are, If you think you are not, you're not. That doesn't mean that you wouldn't cum from manpulation by a machine, or by loving hands you thought were the sex you like, but weren't.

Like the writer above, I have no desire to set up housekeeping with a man, or kiss him. But I'll suck his dick and probably fuck him if he wants.

So what percent bi am i? lol

I truely believe if there were 100 times more fucking and sucking in our society, there would be much less violence. and probably very few wars. Ergo, porn is good!

 

[Dyslexicea]

If there were persons behind a curtain giving blowjobs, and their sexual identity was unknown, everyone who could cum would come.

If you're speaking of sex in general, which would include those of us who don't have penises, at least for me, I'd have to desire the person behind the curtain to be sexually simulated and I think that holds true for most women and I'd also guess most men.

Like the writer above, I have no desire to set up housekeeping with a man, or kiss him. But I'll suck his dick and probably fuck him if he wants.

So what percent bi am i? lol.

I don't find this funny at all. Your attitude is exactly why so many lesbians and gays don't trust bisexuals!

I truely believe if there were 100 times more fucking and sucking in our society, there would be much less violence. and probably very few wars. Ergo, porn is good!

Bullshit violent people have sex and it doesn't make them any less violent.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

If there were persons behind a curtain giving blowjobs, and their sexual identity was unknown, everyone who could cum would come-

If you're speaking of sex in general, which would include those of us who don't have penises, at least for me, I'd have to desire the person behind the curtain to be sexually simulated and I think that holds true for most women and I'd also guess most men.

As a man, I would suggest you're guilty of over romanticizing sex for a lot of men. I won't qualify it and say "most men" only "a lot of men." I know too many men who will fuck any woman willing to have them. Additionally, I've been to too many adult theaters, gloryholes and baths and have seen too many men of all different walks of life ready, willing and needful of someone else to participate in their orgasm. As further evidence of my position: there's a reason why prostitutes, strip clubs, phone sex lines and massage parlors that feature happy endings stay in business, because some guys want the thrill of an orgasm for whatever reasons they have. And there's enough guys willing to pay for those things that those businesses A) remain open and B) flourish.

Bi, gay or straight, there are lots of guys willing to do exactly as Robertreams suggests - stick their dick through a hole in the wall and let their imaginations take over. Take it from someone who has enjoyed being on both sides of those holes in the wall.

Like the writer above, I have no desire to set up housekeeping with a man, or kiss him. But I'll suck his dick and probably fuck him if he wants.

So what percent bi am i? lol

I don't find this funny at all. Your attitude is exactly why so many lesbians and gays don't trust bisexuals!

@Robertreams - my brother, I find your comment funny as hell and I'm shaking my head and offering my own rueful "damned if you do, damned if you don't" laugh in return.

Why? Because I GET it! I understand completely how not fitting in feels. I understand completely how "I'm not normal" feels. I understand completely how "My family and friends would hate me if they knew about this" feels.

Here's what else I understand: "None of my gay friends will accept me because they're afraid I'll ditch them for a skirt." And: "Most of my straight friends would automatically brand me as 'gay' if they knew I liked to suck dick."

I understand how it feels to want to scream at the top of your lungs:
"BUT I'M NOT GAY!"

I also understand how it feels to want to scream:
"BUT I'M NOT STRAIGHT!"

Here's what else I truly WANT to believe. I want to believe that Dyslexicea can relate to how it feels not fitting in. I want to believe she can relate to being condemned by straight society at the same time she points out your behavior as being one of the reasons why ". . .many lesbians and gays don't trust bisexuals!"

Yep, you're right, Dyslexicea, many lesbians and gays don't trust us. Want to know why? BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE ARE GUILTY OF BEING BIGOTS!

Anyone who tells me I'm not really "gay" because I don't enjoy kissing a man on the mouth or because I can't really imagine setting up housekeeping in a romantic way with another man - they're probably right. I'm not "really" gay, am I?

Anyone who tells me I'm not really straight because I enjoy putting another man's dick in my mouth, guess what? They're probably right, too. I'm not "really" straight.

I'm bi. B I S E X U A L. Doesn't make me untrustworthy. Doesn't make me incapable of maintaining a loving, monogamous relationship with another person. I'm no more or less likely to cheat on my partner than any other person. (Although it's funny to remember how the religious right would have us believe that gay & lesbian shouldn't be allowed to marry because they struggle with monogamy.)

Here's what else: I actively support the LGBT community. I participate in boycotts on the principle of the matter. I'm a member of the ACLU. As much as I can in my conservative corner of the world, I vote for politicians who are pro-LGBT. I've investigated workplace harassment complaints as the lead investigator where sexual identity and sexual preferences were the key issues. I've hired (and fired) people who were straight, gay, and trangendered without their sexuality or gender ever being a concern. I can't, however, recall hiring or firing a self-professed bisexual person. Funny how the bi-people of the world remain in hiding.

I guess it's because we can't be trusted, right?

I truely believe if there were 100 times more fucking and sucking in our society, there would be much less violence. and probably very few wars. Ergo, porn is good!

Bullshit violent people have sex and it doesn't make them any less violent.

Yeah, and haters are going to hate, too. Aren't they?

 

[stickygirl]

BD, I'm not sure what proportion of bi, gay, straight men frequent glory holes, massage parlours and prostitutes but I'm scratching my head to figure out why you're citing the way those men get their rocks off as evidence that bi's aren't being trusted. You're right, if those men are in relationships, they can't be trusted. What has that got to do with bisexuality?
If you're saying the lesbian and gay community point to those practices as the reason bi's can' t be trusted, then I'd agree, it's BS, but I don't know that they do.

The gripe that gays and lesbians have is not that bi's have uncontrollable sexual urges but that when a relationships breaks up, it's often because the bi has taken up with someone of the opposite sex. When that happens, the jilted partner, instead of questioning the reason their relationship ended might have been because they 'spent too many hours at work' or 'never did a thing to help out in the house' or 'was a bully', they can tell their supportive gay or lesbian friends "that bastard/bitch" went off with a goddam woman/man. Their own short-comings as a partner can be overlooked by pointing to a more convenient lie: "fucking bisexuals can't be trusted".

The type of bigotry to which you refer isn't limited to bisexuals, it's in human nature to pick an easy scapegoat to deflect attention from the real issue. It's unfair and it's lazy thinking.

There are plenty of people on Lit who claim to be in open relationships and have threesomes every weekend, but Lit represents only a tiny fraction of the population. I don't think I'm romanticising here, but to refer to the glory hole boys in this argument is surely a disservice to bisexuals who do stay in monogamous relationships. Do bisexuals need to prove their sexuality by continual practise of it - if they do, that's pretty sad.

 

[stickygirl]

However, this just in on my Tumblr Dash
https://24.media.tumblr.com/a3db82dc1185eceefcfad997a4c65f93/tumblr_n39mokzGaS1r9ee4eo1_1280.png

 

[TomBoner]

^^^ See there! I knew you had material you could be posting on my GLBT Humor thread!

Mornin' sticks. Happy Friday!

 

[BuckyDuckman]

BD, I'm not sure what proportion of bi, gay, straight men frequent glory holes, massage parlours and prostitutes but I'm scratching my head to figure out why you're citing the way those men get their rocks off as evidence that bi's aren't being trusted. You're right, if those men are in relationships, they can't be trusted. What has that got to do with bisexuality?

I wrote about gloryholes, prostitutes, etc., because I felt Dyslexicea was over romanticizing the sex drive of many men. It felt as if she wanted to dismiss Robertreams' comment "If there were persons behind a curtain giving blowjobs. . ." as invalid. That was an unfair dismissal and I expanded on his thought to demonstrate just how goofy some men (bi, straight or gay) can be about sex. It had nothing to do with how trustworthy bi people are or are not. I hope that clears things up.

If you're saying the lesbian and gay community point to those practices as the reason bi's can' t be trusted, then I'd agree, it's BS, but I don't know that they do.

No, I wasn't suggesting that. Nor do I think that's why any one in the lesbian and gay community would consider a bisexual person untrustworthy.

The gripe that gays and lesbians have is not that bi's have uncontrollable sexual urges but that when a relationships breaks up, it's often because the bi has taken up with someone of the opposite sex. When that happens, the jilted partner, instead of questioning the reason their relationship ended might have been because they 'spent too many hours at work' or 'never did a thing to help out in the house' or 'was a bully', they can tell their supportive gay or lesbian friends "that bastard/bitch" went off with a goddam woman/man. Their own short-comings as a partner can be overlooked by pointing to a more convenient lie: "fucking bisexuals can't be trusted".

The type of bigotry to which you refer isn't limited to bisexuals, it's in human nature to pick an easy scapegoat to deflect attention from the real issue. It's unfair and it's lazy thinking.

Wow, I think you truly hit the nail on the head with that! I would agree, when most people stray outside an otherwise committed relationship, it's often for other reasons. Straight people will make similar charges against bisexual people. "He left me for a man!" Maybe he did. Maybe he woke up and realized he was leading a lie. I know that happens. But I would suggest he was probably always gay and had been living in denial. If he's truly bisexual, I would suggest he got tired of her crap and checked out of the relationship before he decided to on another partner of either sex.

Do bisexuals need to prove their sexuality by continual practise of it - if they do, that's pretty sad.

Not at all. Maybe some do, of course, and I would agree: that's sad. How a person chooses to relate to their bisexuality is an open concept. I can give examples but anecdotal evidence isn't very reliable:

There's my friend who is on her third marriage. Her marriages each fell apart for reasons other than sex. One of her marriages (though never recognized legally) happened to be to a woman. She always knew she was bisexual. We dated in college and she very forthcoming about her sexuality, "I go both ways and I don't share my men with my women or vice versa." During those free-loving days of youth, she choose partners based on attraction and wasn't exclusive to any of them. However, once the stability of adulthood arrived, she became a serial monogamous going from a MF marriage to a FF marriage to a MF marriage. Each marriage last at least five years (longer, I believe) and included children. She remains a dear friend to me and a wonderful example of someone who has never allowed society to tell her whom she could love.

Another friend self-identified as bisexual though he was married to a woman. Again, kids were involved along with years of what turned into a troublesome marriage. I didn't meet him until he was married, so I don't know how he lived his younger life. But we were friends when his marriage fell apart. It had nothing to do with his sexuality. After his marriage dissolved, he began dating (and ultimately marrying) a man. He's exclusive to his husband but still self-identifies as bisexual. As he has told me, "If I cheat on my husband, I'm as likely to do it with another man as I am another woman."

I have yet another friend who has found herself, quite accidentally, inside a very serious lesbian relationship that I believe will lead to marriage. She lived the first 26 years of her life convinced she was as straight as they come. She loves sex with men. She had a reputation as an easy lay. I've know her long enough to see her relationship dissolve because she was dating jerks (or she was a jerk to them, whichever). One drunken night in her youth, she slept with a girl. Only once, according her. Her reaction? "I didn't hate it." She has a dear friend who has always identified as lesbian. Between MF relationship, things progressed with her friend until they began dating. Now they live together and have set-up housekeeping together. Why? Because she's in love. It's cute how in love she is. But, if you ask, she'll tell you, "I'm not a lesbian, but my girlfriend is!" She loves everything about her girlfriend, but doesn't believe she'll take up with another girl if this relationship doesn't work out.

And then there are bisexuals like me. I enjoy having sex with men. I'm in a committed MF marriage and I'm no more attracted to another man than I am attracted to that cute girl behind the counter at Starbucks. I struggled with my sexual identity for years. I wasn't straight, because straight people don't have sex with same gender people, do they? I knew I wasn't gay, because I loved women too much. But what was I? Slightly bent? Made wrong?

While in the Army, I had a gay roommate. I came out to him as bisexual, not as a pass, but as a kinship issue. He wasn't alone in being different. For the record, this was before "Don't ask/don't tell" and back when being gay or bisexual could get someone kicked out of the Army. "Different" oriented people found each other and that was when I first felt the sting of being rejected because I wasn't gay enough not because of my inability to love, because I was able to love too much? I don't know. I still don't. But I know how it feels to be rejected because of my sexuality. I resent it when straight people dismiss my LGT brethren. I resent it, too, when my L/G brothers and sisters dismiss MY identity. In a way, that hurts even more.