What do you believe a collar represents

[Arden]

You know, I'm really tired of hearing how much more profound the collar than the marriage. I'm really tired of hearing how much deeper a commitment and how much more thought through and eternal.

I'm content to call bull dookie bull dookie, so sue me.

There are plenty of people whose collars mean less to them than my engagement ring does to me. There are plenty of people whose wedding rings mean nothing at all. There are plenty of people whose engagement rings mean big rock.

I tend to agree with almost everything you said here.

First, to not ruffle feathers, I want to say that I consider being collared the most beautiful expression of committment between two persons in the realm of BDSM. I'm not talking about play collars, but collars that express complete and absolute devotion to each other!

*******************************************************************

But damnit, I'm also a realist...

Looking at it from another angle... the posts here made me think of the following possibilities. Keep in mind that I'm speaking only of 'real', truly devoted relationships. Not play-oriented collarings.

1) How many Dominants use the collar of eternal devotion as an excuse to never have to make a loving, legal committment to marriage? They might want an easy out if something goes wrong with the relationship. (No, everyone doesn't have to get married... and granted, some cannot in most of the US states if you are of the same sex)

2) What if you spend many years of your life as a collared submissive or slave, serving their every desire, your personal income going into the pot as if you were married. One day, your Dominant dies prematurely. What have you got left? The collar gives you no legal benefits. You're on your own.

If your Dominant was married before, and has a surviving spouse or children, you get nothing. Not even social security payments. Are you in his/her will as a benificiary? Does he/she even have a Will? Even Wills can and will be contested by surviving family... especially if they know of your type of relationship, and frown upon it.

3) You spend a decade or two of your life with your beloved Dominant. Suddenly, you're 60 years old, and your Dominant replaces you with a younger woman/man. What have you got left? Not much. The collar that once meant so much to you won't trade for enough $ to place a deposit on a cheap apartment. If you gave up a career to serve him or her, you may not have enough social security benefit hours on file to collect your OWN SS benefits. You've put decades of your life into the relationship; emotionally, monetarily, physically... and suddenly find yourself out in the cold rain, wondering what happened to your life.

Yes, I know some Dominants and their submissives are purely 'service-oriented'. That's another story completely.

Thinking that a collar has more meaning than a marriage certificate poses many potential problems. These problems can affect any of us if we live unaware of the ramifications. Yes, I understand that many posters here are in their 20s and 30s, and don't want to look this far ahead. As an older person here, I see complete and utter devotion as being one thing, but being ignorant as unforgivable.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Thinking that a collar has more meaning than a marriage certificate poses many potential problems. These problems can affect any of us if we live unaware of the ramifications. Yes, I understand that many posters here are in their 20s and 30s, and don't want to look this far ahead. As an older person here, I see complete and utter devotion as being one thing, but being ignorant as unforgivable.

I tend to agree with you. It was one of the reasons I married Catalina. Not because I think it puts more or less value on the collaring but because it gives my SO a legal base in case something happens to me.

But to me the collaring has deeper meaning then the marriage.


Francisco.

 

[Netzach]

Catalina:

If I had a dime for every time I have heard:

"My collar is much deeper than ANY wedding band"

"The collar goes deeper than wedding bands"

That's different from "My collar means more to me than my marriage, or the opition of marrying"

You know that. Nor would many people say nothing were I to assert that my wedding ring will be more meaningful than the BDSM relationships that will never approach its sanctity and depth. But I've heard that and heard a lot of it.

Nor even would most people say nothing if I were to say "My wedding band is more meaningful than all those people who just don't GET marriage like I do" or something to that effect.

 

[Netzach]

As for what a collar means and why I don't have a symbolic one on my partner, for me it's the most serious symbol denoting *ownership* I can think of when used symbolically.

It would, were I to collar, denote that that person has become, for me and for him/her a property-object. I don't understand the use of collars as an added thing in relationships that are primarily romantic in nature. I do understand their use in relationships that are primarily ownership in nature.

There would be little romance to it, but the most risk and forethought I could imagine. That kind of collaring would be a contract signed in blood, leaving me the right to tire of it and throw it aside should I have the whim, the person in the collar no say whatsoever.

I had that relationship, briefly, not in its permanent, commited phase, but for as long as I could make it work with someone who emerged as having a lot of problems, manipulative, and uncommited in the end. Were I to replicate the experiment with someone who honestly wanted that kind of situation, I can't say I would not (or would) flourish.

However, I know that that person is not my fiance, it's clear enough, at least as things are and will be for a very long time. I don't feel a great void at the moment. In order to symbolically collar M, rather than for M to have a couple of collars that people know are mine, he'd have to have reached a point of near overhaul, the work I am doing with him on trust and obedience would have to have such enormous impact on him as to re-define who is is completely.

I don't expect such things to come before we decide that we want to be together and do this project (engagement ring)

 

[serijules]

I personally have never thought there to be any link or comparison between wedding rings and collars. To me, a marriage is a marriage, whether the people involved are into BDSM, live it as a 24/7 PE, are master and slave, etc....none of that impacts the marriage in any way to me. A marriage should be between two people that love each other as life partners and are equal as life partners, regardless of what level of BDSM plays into it. They may not be 'equal' in the D/s sense of the relationship, but in most other ways, they should be. That is a marriage in my eyes.

A collaring is the same way for me. The two people may or may not be married to one another or other people...it makes no difference. If one is collared to another, in the D/s sense there is a so-called power exchange, submission, ownership, etc. Those things are seperate from any equal role marriage that exists.

So to say one has more meaning than the other (in a general sense, not a personal one) is not something I agree with. To someone that is not married but is collared, I can see the collar being more meaningful to THEM than marriage, or vice versa. But both bonds are very seperate and special things, and only mean as much as the people involved in the relationship want them to.

Just my opinion on the matter, not sure if that makes much sense LOL

 

[Arden]

Just my opinion on the matter, not sure if that makes much sense LOL

In my opinion, you make perfect sense, serijules.

 

[D's mariposa]

A collar is most simply, a tool. It can be used to express a sentiment as deep as marriage, or more so. It can be used to reinforce a persons submission to a particular person in a relationship. It can be used as a form of commitment between two people. It can be used among two people not in a relationship to signify that for the scene they are doing, one is submissive to the other. In this case, it is both a reinforcement of the submission, and a switch to start or stop a scene. It can be used in a bdsm group situation to denote who in the room is sub and who is not. It can be used in a bdsm group situation as a hands off, saying "this person is taken."

Again it is a tool, like a hammer is a tool. A hammer can be used to drive a nail, pull a nail, seperate something or even a paper weight! Like a hammer, it depends on how YOU, as an individual, or couple, uses it.

 

[ownedsubgal]

You know, I'm really tired of hearing how much more profound the collar than the marriage. I'm really tired of hearing how much deeper a commitment and how much more thought through and eternal.

I'm content to call bull dookie bull dookie, so sue me.

There are plenty of people whose collars mean less to them than my engagement ring does to me. There are plenty of people whose wedding rings mean nothing at all. There are plenty of people whose engagement rings mean big rock.

Anyone old enough to remember Iggy and the Stooges in '69 will not assume a collar means ownership. There were probably fewer SM people than punks wearing them throughout most of the last 30 years.

The fashion trend of leather wristcuffs, collars etc. is really not so newfangled as to ever have had a purity of ONLY meaning "SM."

Signifiers change, people adopt them and the shed and lose meaning in ways that are actually quite interesting.

collars signifying SM, imo, is a bit newfangled. but there was a time when a collar meant only one thing, and that was that the person/creature wearing that collar was someone's personal property, such as a comb or pair of shoes. now, that's hardly a thought in most people's minds when they see a collar, including the minds of many in the so called lifestyle.

 

[Mastersprincess]

*bump* for my Master

 

[Master Bill]

Originally posted by Mastersprincess
*bump* for my Master

thank you my princess

 

[Richard49]

R had a what I guess you call a play collar
She would kneel and offer me the collar
and ask me to put it on her

As it slide over her head her face would take on
a look of bless and she would float into sub space

Cyndi never had a physical collar

 

[Pure]

As to collars and their meaning. A question:

Have they hit the 'high fashion' mags like Vogue? Become, to some, odd, striking accessories, like army combat shirts?

Does this affect their 'meaning'.?

 

[Etoile]

R had a what I guess you call a play collar
She would kneel and offer me the collar
and ask me to put it on her

As it slide over her head her face would take on
a look of bless and she would float into sub space

Cyndi never had a physical collar

Wow. I wish it were that easy to reach subspace! (I never have)

 

[s'lara]

Novel Idea - Searing Commitment

Now the collar in this lifestyle has symbolic and spiritual significance. We all acknowledge that.

Lets take a neat little turn out of personal beliefs.

Branding is, in my mind, an extreme sort of marking. That being the case, what if branding replaced the collar to represent ownership? Specifically, what if it became de rigeur to be branded as opposed to just collared?

How many of us would lift our hair and willingly offer unmarked necks for the sizzling, white hot brand of a Dominant?

Would it be more significant? Would the intensity of what you felt have deeper meaning if the sacrifice of flesh was the end result of your commitment?

Just curious to see how some would answer this question given the difference of opinion i've seen on this thread.

i am betting the permanence of physical alteration would give most pause. The "He/She is my life, my world, my heart and soul" would have to be reconsidered in terms of facing a tangible but unremovable reminder of what may not be forever.

 

[FungiUg]

Re: Novel Idea - Searing Commitment

Now the collar in this lifestyle has symbolic and spiritual significance. We all acknowledge that.

No, we don't. Hell, I don't even acknowledge that BDSM is a lifestyle, let alone that collars have "symbolic and spiritual significance" (nice alliteration.)

Anything can have meaning. What meaning you attach to things is up to you. Many people in the "BDSM lifestyle" (if there is such a thing) attach significance to collars. Many do not.

 

[s'lara]

Re: Re: Novel Idea - Searing Commitment

No, we don't. Hell, I don't even acknowledge that BDSM is a lifestyle, let alone that collars have "symbolic and spiritual significance" (nice alliteration.)

Anything can have meaning. What meaning you attach to things is up to you. Many people in the "BDSM lifestyle" (if there is such a thing) attach significance to collars. Many do not.

i think you meant "No *I* don't." Careful, i made the mistake of speaking for others by saying "... we all acknowledge that." Don't make the same generalization ... smiles

If you don't consider it a lifestyle, that's up to you. Have fun on your own beaten path. But, lets be realistic. The collar is a generally accepted symbol of ownership by those who do live their lives in and around BDSM. Whether it has significance to you or not does not negate the fact that the collar is representative of a level of commitment between a Dominant and a sub/slave.

i am doubtful that you will, but if you care to, do a search on the history of the collar in BDSM. Unlike Pure, who has an amazing knack and patience for doing others research, i will not provide link after link, books or movies that explain the concept to you.

After all, you are entitled to your beliefs even if they do not coincide with the masses.

 

[FungiUg]

Re: Re: Re: Novel Idea - Searing Commitment

i think you meant "No *I* don't." Careful, i made the mistake of speaking for others by saying "... we all acknowledge that." Don't make the same generalization ... smiles

A hit! A veritable hit!

The collar is a generally accepted symbol of ownership by those who do live their lives in and around BDSM.

Actually, if you look at the historical influence, it's more associated with slavery. Now there is a strong element of slavery involved with BDSM, but there are also many proponents who object to slavery. As in any community/interest group -- different folks, different strokes.

Whether it has significance to you or not does not negate the fact that the collar is representative of a level of commitment between a Dominant and a sub/slave.

True. But... why do we need a thing to symbolise commitment? When what we are really after is the commitment itself?

(Not challenging your statement, just wondering if you have thought about it a step further.)

After all, you are entitled to your beliefs even if they do not coincide with the masses.

No, no, no! I want to conform! Really I do! Baaaa! Baaaa!

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Re: Novel Idea - Searing Commitment

Now the collar in this lifestyle has symbolic and spiritual significance. We all acknowledge that.

I acknowledge that it has symbolic and spiritual significance to others, and I respect that, just as I respect everyone's right to their own path through this lifestyle (if that's what they choose to call it). What has meaning and significance to me is my commitment and relationship with Him. IMHO, we need to be careful about speaking for the group as a whole about an issue such as this one.

i am betting the permanence of physical alteration would give most pause. The "He/She is my life, my world, my heart and soul" would have to be reconsidered in terms of facing a tangible but unremovable reminder of what may not be forever.

IMO, we can go on and on here about various ways of denoting ownership. A brand, a scar, a piercing, a collar, a pair of restraints, a tattoo, or a engagement ring/wedding band....and whether or not one has more "significance" than the other. I see the significance not in the outward trappings of what one is touched by...but in the inward connection that you have with each other. What matter the beautiful collar or lovely tattoo if you can't stay connected in the way that you wanted to? If the relationship between you is unsuccessful?

Speaking strictly for myself, I suppose the bottom line for me is that I really don't care about fancy collars...I would just rather strive to serve to the best of my ability. I don't need something around my neck to prove that I'm doing that. All I need is to hear Him tell me. For me, it's that simple.

~anelize

 

[FungiUg]

Oooh, scary, someone else thinks the same way I do! I'd better quickly change my beliefs then!

Dammit Anelyze... you coulda posted that earlier. Then I could have pointed to your post and said "no, I am right!" to s'lara.

Although I'm having fun playing with her mind, anyway.

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Oooh, scary, someone else thinks the same way I do! I'd better quickly change my beliefs then!

Dammit Anelyze... you coulda posted that earlier. Then I could have pointed to your post and said "no, I am right!" to s'lara.

Although I'm having fun playing with her mind, anyway.

LOL

I am not posting on YOUR schedule oh Fungous One *grin*


I am who I am, or better yet, what is, is. *chuckle*

~anelize

 

[FungiUg]

LOL

I am not posting on YOUR schedule oh Fungous One *grin*


I am who I am, or better yet, what is, is. *chuckle*

~anelize

Anelize, otherwise known as "popeye" (I yam wot I yam), I do appreciate you posting, but... you're standing on my schedule!

 

[le_kinklet]

As submissive i view my collar with great importance, it is the ultimate gift for any submissive. At the same time, when a Dom/mes hands out a collar He/She should give it the same respect and to the person wearing it also, it is a symbol of ownership and one i cherish with all my heart, as those of you here that do know me will already understand that of me.

What it represents is my willingness to submit to my Dom/mes, that i will from that point in time, put myself in His/Her control, to be guided, taught and challenged with total understanding that W/we would know O/our limits and boundaries.

But in the same breath a collar does not give a Dom/mes the right to treat you like a doormat or even give you the right to be a doormat!

OOps!!!
thats my opion, some may see if differently!

 

[replicant]

collar = humiliation

It has been universally seen as a piece of equipment for which the Dominant shows his sub that he/she is of the same class as a dog. Lower than man.

Collaring in modern BDSM has become a symbol for ones undying devotion to their Master/Mistress. I personally think it looks ridiculous in most situations. Although, I do have a small fetish for my sub to dress in a fur collar with cat ears and matching tail. That is a different thing altogethe though.

 

[catalina_francisco]

collar = humiliation

It has been universally seen as a piece of equipment for which the Dominant shows his sub that he/she is of the same class as a dog. Lower than man.

Collaring in modern BDSM has become a symbol for ones undying devotion to their Master/Mistress. I personally think it looks ridiculous in most situations. Although, I do have a small fetish for my sub to dress in a fur collar with cat ears and matching tail. That is a different thing altogethe though.

Well honey I think you have missed the point in lots of areas from your postings. Personally speaking, I would be more humiliated, bored, and disgusted if Master expected me to dress in a fur collar with ears and tail as you suggest you do. Strange how you see that as acceptable, but not an honoured tradition that marks someone respectfully as belonging to another. I in no way am humiliated by my collar and wear it at all times...same collar, not a variety to disguise the purpose in different settings.

Catalina

 

[lark sparrow]

For Mistress and me, it is a sign of ownership, and if there is humiliation it is the kind we mutually enjoy and seek from our respective positions. Lower than Man, no... lower than Mistress as a submissive belonging and surrendered to Her, yes.

I should also say I do not have a physical collar at this time, though I have formally belonged to Her approaching two years. Her physical collaring of me is something we both look forward to and attach a great degree of commitment to. This is a personal and subjective meaning of course, and I recognize that there exist collars as fashion statements, as well as functional play collars - neither of which bother me. Even the (usually cyber) 'velcro' collars are amusing. A collar can and does have many meanings.

For us, that strip of leather around the neck symbolizes the 'final' commitment and will be done in a 24/7 setting only. On the other hand, it is 'just a strip of leather around the neck', as my commitment to Her is no less without the physical symbol... though when the time is right, it will bring us both an immense amount of perhaps corny joy, which is worth waiting for.

Oh, and as a P.S. we do plan on having a permanent marking of some sort somewhere along the way (on me), with or after the physical collaring... and yes, that does give both of our practical sides much pause, but it's part of what makes those (hopefully!) once in a lifetime experiences. We aren't rushing into either of these symbols.