What "liberal" means

[GothTalk]

You can't win this....just not smart enough.

Ad hom isn't an argument and makes this a rather obvious projection of your own insecurity.

I'm all for small govt, less regulation and more freedoms(which is just keeping the very good freedom we already have).

Since the fuck when were you a Libertarian????

Being a progressive democrat is the opposite of all those things.

Cut the military budget way down(you new "Repubs" should be for this)

Always have been.

Now how do you feel about doing that to social, especially equity programs Mr.Libertarian???



I'm betting we don't get a direct response to that..... we all know why.

and start providing education to our citizens so they can get jobs and can build on a sense of achievement and growth....the best way I know if taking those at risk for poverty, drugs, crime out of it.

Ahhhh so you aren't in favor of minimal government, you're in favor of minimizing government YOU don't like.

Not the same thing.

I suppose you're not very keen on my private ownership of belt fed machine guns and grenade launchers either???

How about my "hate" speech and religious exemptions from vaccine mandates???

You support those right Mr.Libertarian???

How about a private citizen making a TRILLION dollars mor than the 2nd richest guy in the world and not giving you a fucking penny of it???

 

[pecksniff]

Bottom line is "liberalism" is never going to be "Authoritarianism that leftist approve of."

American liberalism as defined in the OP is not "authoritarianism leftists approve of."

 

[pecksniff]

So if you're a Libertarian then why are you a Democrats and so supportive of their authoritarian policies and a big centralized totalitarian government???

Social democracy ain't that.

 

[GothTalk]

American liberalism as defined in the OP is not "authoritarianism leftists approve of."

No, leftist opinion on what liberalism is, is in OP. thus the 2nd rate citation from a left wing biased source.

"Authoritarianism leftist approve of" is the contemporary Democrat definition of liberalism.


The actual definition of liberalism is in post #2.

 

[GothTalk]

Social democracy ain't that.

Of course it is.

Just because you vote for it doesn't make it somehow more liberal.

Again, words have meanings. Liberal =/= approved of by the left or the majority.

Learn your words.

 

[pecksniff]

Of course it is.

Not in any country where social democracy exists. Those countries rank pretty high on the Democracy Index. Some of them rank higher than the U.S.

They also rank high on the Index of Economic Freedom. What's good enough for the Heritage Foundation and WSJ ain't good enough for you?

 

[GothTalk]

Not in any country where social democracy exists. Those countries rank pretty high on the Democracy Index. Some of them rank higher than the U.S.

Democracy is not a synonym of liberty.

No matter how many times you try and lie that it is, it is not.

They also rank high on the Index of Economic Freedom. What's good enough for the Heritage Foundation and WSJ ain't good enough for you?

Economic freedom is only one aspect of liberty and is also not liberalism in and of itself.

Being able to participate in economic activity freely is liberal.

Not being able to keep the fruits of that activity because democracy has enslaved you to the degenerates and incompetents of your society, is not.

 

[pecksniff]

Economic freedom is only one aspect of liberty and is also not liberalism in and of itself.

Being able to participate in economic activity freely is liberal.

Not being able to keep the fruits of that activity because democracy has enslaved you to the degenerates and incompetents of your society, is not.

I doubt you'll find many people in social democracies who feel enslaved to degenerates, etc. That's not what they think of when they fill out their tax forms or whatever. If they did, they could change the system -- these are real democracies, after all -- but, they don't.

 

[GothTalk]

I doubt you'll find many people in social democracies who feel enslaved to degenerates, etc. That's not what they think of when they fill out their tax forms or whatever. If they did, they could change the system -- these are real democracies, after all -- but, they don't.

What they feel doesn't change the fact that they are.

Facts don't care about feelings.

I never questioned that they are real democracies. I'm saying democracy =/= liberalism.....in spite of your suggestion that it is.

 

[pecksniff]

What they feel doesn't change the fact that they are.

Facts don't care about feelings.

I never questioned that they are real democracies. I'm saying democracy =/= liberalism.....in spite of your suggestion that it is.

Democracy =/= authoritarianism, in spite of your suggestion that it is.

 

[GothTalk]

Democracy =/= authoritarianism, in spite of your suggestion that it is.

I never suggested that it was.

So yea.....that doesn't really work.

 

[pecksniff]

I never suggested that it was.

So yea.....that doesn't really work.

Well, whatever democracy is, it is something more important and has more value than what you call "liberalism."

 

[GothTalk]

Well, whatever democracy is, it is something more important and has more value than what you call "liberalism."

I understand that you reject the founding principles and values of the USA (classical English Liberalism), this is why I consider you and those like you un-American.

As for Democracy, just like autocracy and anocracy, it is just a method by which we determine and set policy.

Those basic systems/structures of government are not inherently liberal nor authoritarian nor left or right. Those things are determined by the policies themselves and how they are implemented/enforced.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Shit talk from the rafters isn't refutation of anything Rob.

Where am I insisting that 2+2=5???

I'm the ones with the facts and citations on my side.

You've brought nothing but name calling and lies.

Fuck your fee fees, little goof.

You trot out dictionary definitions on a regular basis, then claim you exemplify those traits personally, when the exact opposite is generally true.

For example a real "liberal" wouldn't support summary justice, concentration camps and/or physical mutilation. You've gone on record as supporting all three.

 

[GothTalk]

Fuck your fee fees, little goof.

You trot out dictionary definitions on a regular basis,

I'm glad you understand I'm not the one trying to redefine terms for their political bias.

then claim you exemplify those traits personally, when the exact opposite is generally true.

Not at all, your dishonest mischaracterizations maybe but not my actual traits.

For example a real "liberal" wouldn't support summary justice, concentration camps and/or physical mutilation. You've gone on record as supporting all three.

Summary justice and physical mutilation are circumstantial. Nothing illiberal about self defense or defense of ones property. Liberalism only extends to the level of harm, your liberty ends where other peoples harm begins. So if you violently attack me there is nothing illiberal about summarily executing your attacker with extreme physical mutilation.

Never supported concentration camps, that's entirely your dishonest whackadoodle fantasy.

 

[Lazaran]

.
Emobo STILL hasn't addressed the verity of the OP.

Emobo has cried and ruined his eyeliner, but that's about it.

*nods* AND *chuckles*

 

[pecksniff]

I understand that you reject the founding principles and values of the USA (classical English Liberalism), this is why I consider you and those like you un-American.

Without democracy, liberalism, like authoritarianism, is something that happens to you, not something you get to choose. Only through democracy can you make any choices about your socioeconomic environment.

Democracy might not be synonymous with liberalism, but neither is it separable from liberalism.

 

[Rightguide]

When Professor Pecksniff calls the class to order with a pretense of education we can always be sure we're about to suffer a round of gaslighting in support of some existing or forthcoming narrative.

 

[Lazaran]

.
Emobo think's the United State's founding principles and values were based on "freedom".

POC, women, and ALL non-landed men would disagree.

Considering Emobo doesn't even know the history or current reality of Asians in the U.S., it isn't surprising that Emobo is clueless about the rest of U.S. history.

*nods*

 

[pecksniff]

.
Emobo think's the United State's founding principles and values were based on "freedom".

POC, women, and ALL non-landed men would disagree.

Well, based on "classical English liberalism." Which dates from a time when there were a lot of slaves and nonvoting subjects in the British Empire -- but which also dates (in any form more clearly articulated than Locke's or Smith's) from after American independence.

 

[WillJ8787]

Well, based on "classical English liberalism." Which dates from a time when there were a lot of slaves in the British Empire -- but which also dates (in any form more clearly articulated than Locke's or Smith's) from after American independence.

I'm sure they have a picture of Bobo next to "not liberal".

 

[WillJ8787]

Democracy is not a synonym of liberty.

No matter how many times you try and lie that it is, it is not.




Economic freedom is only one aspect of liberty and is also not liberalism in and of itself.

Being able to participate in economic activity freely is liberal.

Not being able to keep the fruits of that activity because democracy has enslaved you to the degenerates and incompetents of your society, is not.

He checks the synonym reference books hourly...chuckles.

 

[GothTalk]

.
Emobo STILL hasn't addressed the verity of the OP.

Emobo has cried and ruined his eyeliner, but that's about it.

*nods* AND *chuckles*

There is no verity of OP.

You can't refute the facts.

.
Emobo think's the United State's founding principles and values were based on "freedom".

Quite literally said differently.

You're dishonestly misrepresenting what I said, which is about your only option at this point.

.
Considering Emobo doesn't even know the history or current reality of Asians in the U.S., it isn't surprising that Emobo is clueless about the rest of U.S. history.

*nods*

More lies and race baiting.

This is all the typical left is worth these days.

 

[GothTalk]

I'm sure they have a picture of Bobo next to "not liberal".

WillJ, after having how he is not at all liberal and a liar about his support for liberty and civil rights.... can't say how I'm not liberal.

He checks the synonym reference books hourly...chuckles.

Stay mad that words mean things.

 

[GothTalk]

When Professor Pecksniff calls the class to order with a pretense of education we can always be sure we're about to suffer a round of gaslighting in support of some existing or forthcoming narrative.

WillJ and Laz too.