DVS
A ghost from your dreams
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2002
- Posts
- 11,416
I don't see it the same way as the article does. While I do say they have the right to protest peacefully, I see their peaceful protesting as going over the line, in some areas. Some of the protests have actually stopped access to some shops, so those shop owners complain that their rights are being violated. The protesters inhibit shoppers from the area.
I'll let them have a sit-in or whatever, but when they filter into the streets and bridges, so normal city traffic is affected, that affects innocent people trying to get to work, etc. And if the city says you can't camp out, and they camp out anyway, what else is there to be done but remove them with force. They were told to leave or else, and they decided to pick the or else.
Those who were pepper sprayed were not being peaceful as reported. They were out in the street and had their arms locked together. That is resisting. I don't know if I would have sprayed as much as what I saw one policeman spraying, but pepper spray isn't going to hurt anyone. I've been sprayed in the eyes in training. It's uncomfortable but it's suppose to be. It is a tool police use to get mobs to disperse when they won't. I'm sure they were warned ahead of time that if they didn't move, they would be sprayed.
Because the protesters were locking arms, police would have been seen as being too rough if they had to pry the protester's arms apart. When you have to physically touch someone, their resisting causes police to step up their methods in order to keep control of a situation. So, as long as police can control the crowd from a distance, everybody is more likely to stay safe.
The closer you have to get to active protesters, the more likely someone is going to get hurt. That's why pepper spray is used. It's an uncomfortable, burning feeling that causes mucus membranes to produce overloads of fluid, but it hurts less than a baton. Even baton use is controlled. You can't just hit someone anywhere you want for fear of causing physical harm.
On the elderly lady who was sprayed, all you hear is that an elderly lady was sprayed. You don't know if she was an active protestor or an innocent bystander. If she was an active protestor, police don't check the age of people, if they are trying to gain control of a situation. If an elderly person is one of a resisting group and the group is sprayed, that elderly person will be sprayed. If she was just an innocent bystander, she has a case. If she was an innocent bystander, why was she anywhere near the area? Stay the fuck away or you can be hurt.
I saw people holding cameras just inches from the faces of police, while they were trying to do their job. I don't know if these people were media or just idiots with cameras, but the policeman I saw was trying to see past the camera. If the person holding the camera had been a protestor, I think they would have been restrained.
But because media has the right to show what's going on, it seemed to me that the policeman was trying to do his job, in spite of the camera in his face. If this person was media, he should have been arrested. He literally had his camera just a couple inches from and right in the policeman's face. That's too close to focus any camera.
Telling a story is almost always one sided. And you can always make it look like the other side is at fault. I always try to be fair, when I see something. Video can easily be edited to look like one side or the other is unnecessarily escalating the situation.
I don't know who is wrong and who is right. I'm guessing a little of both. But, only when the complete scene is shown...why the pepper spray was used on the protestors sitting in the street, why the elderly lady was sprayed, etc. will we be able to make a good judgement on what happens.
I do think some campus police can sometimes overstep any training, but sometimes campus police aren't trained as well as city police. I think our major U. S. city police departments have sufficient training.
Police have a tough job, because they are ALWAYS watched and ALWAYS accused of being too severe. There are strict rules when dealing with escalation that tell them what to do, when and how far to go. They don't enjoy getting rough with people. The police I know would much rather be somewhere with their feet up, drinking coffee and eating doughnuts.
I'll let them have a sit-in or whatever, but when they filter into the streets and bridges, so normal city traffic is affected, that affects innocent people trying to get to work, etc. And if the city says you can't camp out, and they camp out anyway, what else is there to be done but remove them with force. They were told to leave or else, and they decided to pick the or else.
Those who were pepper sprayed were not being peaceful as reported. They were out in the street and had their arms locked together. That is resisting. I don't know if I would have sprayed as much as what I saw one policeman spraying, but pepper spray isn't going to hurt anyone. I've been sprayed in the eyes in training. It's uncomfortable but it's suppose to be. It is a tool police use to get mobs to disperse when they won't. I'm sure they were warned ahead of time that if they didn't move, they would be sprayed.
Because the protesters were locking arms, police would have been seen as being too rough if they had to pry the protester's arms apart. When you have to physically touch someone, their resisting causes police to step up their methods in order to keep control of a situation. So, as long as police can control the crowd from a distance, everybody is more likely to stay safe.
The closer you have to get to active protesters, the more likely someone is going to get hurt. That's why pepper spray is used. It's an uncomfortable, burning feeling that causes mucus membranes to produce overloads of fluid, but it hurts less than a baton. Even baton use is controlled. You can't just hit someone anywhere you want for fear of causing physical harm.
On the elderly lady who was sprayed, all you hear is that an elderly lady was sprayed. You don't know if she was an active protestor or an innocent bystander. If she was an active protestor, police don't check the age of people, if they are trying to gain control of a situation. If an elderly person is one of a resisting group and the group is sprayed, that elderly person will be sprayed. If she was just an innocent bystander, she has a case. If she was an innocent bystander, why was she anywhere near the area? Stay the fuck away or you can be hurt.
I saw people holding cameras just inches from the faces of police, while they were trying to do their job. I don't know if these people were media or just idiots with cameras, but the policeman I saw was trying to see past the camera. If the person holding the camera had been a protestor, I think they would have been restrained.
But because media has the right to show what's going on, it seemed to me that the policeman was trying to do his job, in spite of the camera in his face. If this person was media, he should have been arrested. He literally had his camera just a couple inches from and right in the policeman's face. That's too close to focus any camera.
Telling a story is almost always one sided. And you can always make it look like the other side is at fault. I always try to be fair, when I see something. Video can easily be edited to look like one side or the other is unnecessarily escalating the situation.
I don't know who is wrong and who is right. I'm guessing a little of both. But, only when the complete scene is shown...why the pepper spray was used on the protestors sitting in the street, why the elderly lady was sprayed, etc. will we be able to make a good judgement on what happens.
I do think some campus police can sometimes overstep any training, but sometimes campus police aren't trained as well as city police. I think our major U. S. city police departments have sufficient training.
Police have a tough job, because they are ALWAYS watched and ALWAYS accused of being too severe. There are strict rules when dealing with escalation that tell them what to do, when and how far to go. They don't enjoy getting rough with people. The police I know would much rather be somewhere with their feet up, drinking coffee and eating doughnuts.
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