What to do when the Majority can't handle a Minority of One

[Lizzie_Borden]

Not being on the New York Best Seller list is a form of censorship.

Ok, I'm not an author and that made me lol

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

PS: Stella, easternsun, Netzach, thanks for the history lessons etc.

Good stuff, especially for someone like me who generally doesn't much thought into why it's now ok to like what I like.

I really should appreciate it more.

 

[Epmd607]

Wow, someone's spent a lot of time on all the wikipedia discussion pages defending Total Power Exchange as a creation on a chat board in the 90s. It's an impossible exchange, a didact's fantasy. What's the exchange?

To give something you need to get something. To gift something you need to possess something completely. To become a slave under TPE guidelines first you must own your freedom and accept the responsibility that comes with being radically free. There is no human being that has that kind of mastery over the crisis that comes from recognizing your own freedom. They can't give everything.

The exchange can't happen, only the games, pretend. 19.5hrs/6.2 days a week master/slave play. Even if there existed someone as radically free to become a slave, there doesn't exist someone who could accept that 'gift'. Bloved couldn't accept that gift, that's why his partners leave him, he hasn't mastered anything. Allegedly he was such a failure he drove one to nervous breakdown.

 

[Epmd607]

Bobby Wulf's spammer's delight up in the BDSM talk. Glad I don't frequent this board. Peace out kiddies, apparently you're under attack from this uneducated sociopath.

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

Bobby Wulf's spammer's delight up in the BDSM talk. Glad I don't frequent this board. Peace out kiddies, apparently you're under attack from this uneducated sociopath.

No! Stay!

Please?

 

[BLoved]

There is only one thing to do when the majority persecute you ...

Believe in yourself.

 

[Etoile]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/somerandomcrap/Kittens/cute_baby_kitten.jpg

 

[Lizzie_Borden]

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/somerandomcrap/Kittens/cute_baby_kitten.jpg

Can I take that one home, please?

 

[Adakgirl]

Wow! I've been missing so much lately. Don't you false voting, frenzy feeding mobsters, of this persecuting, kangaroo court BDSM forum, understand?

This poster has no intention of looking outside himself, he is terrified of thoughts and ideas which may lead him to any type of personal growth. That's why he needs those high votes on his stories so very badly...he has no other way to gauge if he is really alive or dead. When you stop learning from others because you refuse to listen...you can't live. When you refuse to learn about yourself from others, you are dead to all but yourself. In my opinion, his man has a mental illness and is delusional as hell...as far as I can tell.

delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are

delusions of persecution - a delusion (common in paranoia) that others are out to get you and frustrate and embarrass you or inflict suffering on you; a complicated conspiracy is frequently imagined

Persecutory delusion: These are the most common type of delusions and involve the theme of being followed, harassed, cheated, poisoned or drugged, conspired against, spied on, attacked, or obstructed in the pursuit of goals. Sometimes the delusion is isolated and fragmented (such as the false belief that co-workers are harassing), but sometimes are well-organized belief systems involving a complex set of delusions

A famous quotation by Bertrand Russell gives his interpretation of megolamania:

"The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved. To this type belong many lunatics and most of the great men of history."

 

[Etoile]

Excellent post, Adakgirl.

 

[Adakgirl]

Here kitty kitty kitty puuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrr

 

[Etoile]

Here kitty kitty kitty puuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrr

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a4/somerandomcrap/Kittens/kitten.jpg

 

[sb2009]

I hope there is room next to Keroin and Chy for me

I feel like the person at a party who interrupts a really intense conversation about Cinema by saying "So, I totally loved Transformers! It was so cool!"

 

[FloggingMolly]

I hope there is room next to Keroin and Chy for me

I feel like the person at a party who interrupts a really intense conversation about Cinema by saying "So, I totally loved Transformers! It was so cool!"

Yup, me too

 

[Homburg]

Holy Shit! Total Power Exchange did NOT begin with that faggot Jon Jacobs. Michel Foucault is the source material for all 'playing at' within BDSM. Jacques Derrida gave us 'the gift' in The Gift of Death, Responsibility to the Other. Fuck that nonsense vanity shit from wikipedia.

So I'm a coupla pages behind, but I still want to give a big round of applause for this post.

--

Theres not one person driving the wrong way down the motorway! THERES FUCKING THOUSANDS OF THEM! THOUSAAAANDS!

*snort*

Brilliant

 

[WriterDom]

There is only one thing to do when the majority persecute you ...

Throw a thread starting tantrum? Delete and repost your stories weekly? Well, that's two.

 

[unsettled]

Wow! I've been missing so much lately. Don't you false voting, frenzy feeding mobsters, of this persecuting, kangaroo court BDSM forum, understand?

This poster has no intention of looking outside himself, he is terrified of thoughts and ideas which may lead him to any type of personal growth. That's why he needs those high votes on his stories so very badly...he has no other way to gauge if he is really alive or dead. When you stop learning from others because you refuse to listen...you can't live. When you refuse to learn about yourself from others, you are dead to all but yourself. In my opinion, his man has a mental illness and is delusional as hell...as far as I can tell.



I absolutely agree Adakgirl, social or mental disorder...

On a side note, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread because this is a very informed and logical group of trolls... Sorry sorry I meant contributors and I am severely lacking that in my everyday life.

 

[stirbird]

I'm interested in the "historical" dimension of this discussion.

A lot of people have wondered where the idea of submission as "a gift" came from, with the new kind of power it offers to submissives.

Is Wulf really the Father of "the Gift"?

Is Jon Jacobs really considered the Father of TPE?

If not, how did these ideas evolve? Are they purely a product of this internet culture?

Well, if you're interested in history and read a lot of it, you realize that people have been people a very long time. By that I mean that there was bdsm, tpe, masters/slaves (not so sure about submission as a gift) thousands of years ago. These things have always been a small (meaning not all people share these interests) but significant part of being human. Nobody contemporary invented these practices or emotions. It's all been done before, and for centuries.

What is new is that in most historical cultures this sort of thing was either taken for granted or else it was something you couldn't talk about freely.

I'm very interested in master/slave relationships, not so interested in the historical origin of words that describe realities that are as old as humanity. But I'll try to answer your questions. I was around when TPE happened. (Actually, JJ referred to it more often as APE--or absolute power exchange--but I think people didn't like the acronym. Since "TP" is my acronym for what I wipe my butt with, I don't like the other acryonym. TP exchange? No, not into that kink!! ) Anyway, my take was that TPE/APE/whatever was used because at that time in that particular subculture the terms "master" and "slave" had very different connotations than they do now, some of them quite negative (and false/community-practice engendered). You couldn't just casually say "master" or "slave" without being lambasted by very prejudiced (and largely fantasy-based) objections. So... TPE/APE it was. It just gave people a way to talk about the realities of modern sexual slavery without actual calling it by those emotion-triggering words.

TPE was actually Steven Davis's invention, not Jacob's. In his attempt to counter jj on asb, he had to distinguish himself and his ideas as distinct from his arch-enemy's so he purposfully ignored APE and tried to redefine his understanding of it as TPE.

I remember when wulf stumbled upon that newsgroup and was a rank newbie. No, he is not JJ. He started the little lambs thing very early in his asb career to distinguish himself and get attention there. It was quite successful at the start. Newbie subs lapped it up! He also didn't invent "submission as a gift." That concept and phrase had been floating around (as Stella correctly mentions) for many years before he even found the internet. He just glommed onto it and made it his own.

One other historical nugget. I laughed hard when the first article Etoile quoted claimed that ASB came into existence in 1988. It was written by good ol' spetrum--quite the ass-kisser that one, if I remember correctly!--who arrived on asb in '89 or '90. I remember his newbie days too--so '88 was probably ancient history to him, lol) What actually happened in 1988 or thereabouts was the the public door to the interent was opened and non-college people could suddenly access it and came flooding through the gates in droves. ASB was around years, perhaps decades before that. It was started as a joke, but then some kinky people started taking it seriously and made it their "home." But I guess something comes into existence only at that point where you first discover it.

I could be misremembering some of this. It was a long time ago and I've done my best to forget that particular past for personal reasons. So, those who were there (I'm sure there are some of you lurking--or not--in here), correct me if I'm wrong. Just don't ask me about ssbb. I stopped reading asb long before the spam started and the need to move to a different branch of the newsgroup tree became mandatory, although some of my friends do remember that time--and even helped to engineer the move.

 

[eastern sun]

But I guess something comes into existence only at that point where you first discover it.

Ain't that the truth! Though I have never questioned the fact that the master/slave realities are as old as humanity, it never occurred to me to ask how the internet might have been involved in the modern evolution of these terms and ideas, even though I can see that the process is still underway. (I guess I thought that these terms had sprung full-grown from the mind of Zeus, or something.)

With Etoile's posts of the asb links, the (relatively brief, but loaded) history of the internet suddenly opened up before me. I felt like I was standing on the edge of learning something new . . . (and I am)

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I'm off to read more Derrida.

 

[Stella_Omega]

One great thing about all of this is discovering the ASB archive. I've been browsing them off and on. I remember how much more effort goes into writing a letter than posting a comment to a forum, and it shows. There are some wonderful essays and stories tucked away in google's memories. Is that the only archive extant?

(I noticed that wulf got kicked off a list for people trying to kick smoking as well, for the same kind of behavior.)

 

[rosco rathbone]

Good lord, a stirbird sighting.

 

[Etoile]

One quick word on usenet history: the alt hierarchy wasn't created until the Great Renaming of 1987, so quoting 1988 isn't too far off. There may have been a community of people elsewhere who then moved to asb, but asb itself was not around till about 87/88.

I would also disagree that the doors were flung open beyond the college level that early. 99% of the world had no idea that archie, gopher, wais, etc existed. The doors didn't really open until Internet in a Box came out in the early 90s. But that has nothing to do with BDSM.

 

[Stella_Omega]

The archives only goes back to 97... ten years of history are unrecorded, dammit, where are they!

 

[WriterDom]

(I noticed that wulf got kicked off a list for people trying to kick smoking as well, for the same kind of behavior.)

Well, he's still trying anyway. Everyone else must have been casual smokers.

 

[Etoile]

The archives only goes back to 97... ten years of history are unrecorded, dammit, where are they!

It's sad, isn't it?! I think at the time, people didn't realize how interesting it would be to read the prattle in the future. You can catch some of the old stuff on Google Groups (the current keeper of Usenet archives; previously it was DejaNews), but it's not like being able to read every single conversation that took place long ago. alt.binaries.* used to be THE place for porn, probably still gets a lot of traffic. I used to hang out all over usenet; the earliest posting I can find of my own is from 1997. Searching the archives, I see that I was posting in places like alt.possessive.its.has.no.apostrophe, alt.culture.cyber-psychos, alt.fan.naked.dancing.llama, and alt.adjective.noun.verb.verb.verb among others.