Wheatless diet?

[midwestyankee]

Take this with a grain of salt, but...I have a horse with EPSM, which is essentially an inability to digest sugar and starch. Since most horses who don't live on a huge farm are fed mostly grain, this is a problem.

We didn't know what was wrong with her for a long time. She lost weight, her muscles were wasting away, and she was lame. I eventually read something about it on the Interwebz, and we tried changing her diet. In a couple of months, she was back to normal.

Anyway, the upshot of this is that as we were trying to help her get better, I read quite a few things that said to stay away from corn products, as they promote inflammation, at least in the joints, and that was a problem for poor horsey, since she was lame at the time. I have NO IDEA if this is even true or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

No idea if it's at all related, but I've read more than one persuasive piece making the argument that the widespread use of high fructose corn syrup is at the root of many of our widespread health problems that seem to have magically ballooned over the last forty years.

 

[FurryFury]

I just got the book Wheat Belly by Dr. William Davis from the library. I'm highly skeptical that "everyone" is allergic to wheat and that every disease is from wheat. However, I do believe that we have been totally fucked over by the way foods have been processed and researched so that it's addicting and stuff.

I think, cutting back on breads can't be a bad thing but it turns out some wheat is in a lot of things. Which means I probably need to make my own.

I suspect the best way to proceed is to do a very basic diet, and only add one more thing in at a time and see how it affects you. That's assuming you can tell how things affect you. My girl with ADHD generally can't tell even when it's very obvious to me.

I also got, It's Starts With Food by Dallas and Melissa Hartwig. They REALLY pissed me off. Advising people to mostly eat MEAT and veggies, maybe a little fruit but NO beans or starches and stressing that a vegetarian or vegan diet is the source of all badness. What utter crap.

 

[FurryFury]

Now that makes sense to me. I've been working on cutting it out of my diet.

No idea if it's at all related, but I've read more than one persuasive piece making the argument that the widespread use of high fructose corn syrup is at the root of many of our widespread health problems that seem to have magically ballooned over the last forty years.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Netzach, I meant that the antibiotics/hormone discussion in animal food products is not directly relevant to this specific discussion we are having about wheat, although it certainly is worth discussing in a larger topic of public health in the agricultural food industry. I simply do not want to cause a digression in discussion and I will not.

In regards to Bt cotton and similar modifications in wheat, I personally would appreciate a more "natural" product, but if you presented me with "pesticide laden product A" or "genetically altered product B with much less pesticide", I may be inclined to select the latter. Of course, it is possible that Organic Product C is "better", but I don't know if the demand for food in the world would tolerate all plant products being produced Organically (not to mention they simply COULDN'T grow them in sufficient quantities that way in some regions). I'm not trying to say we should all just sit idly on the bandwagon hoping nothing bad happens to us. I'm saying that I don't believe these alterations are the most substantial part of the issue. And I think energy should be focused into finding a better solution instead of simply casting aside all less-than-ideal options and idolizing a gold standard. And, of course, I don't give a shit what you buy for yourself to eat

BiBun, where in the world are you that the horses are being fed mostly grain?! I'm glad you've managed to get your horse on a better diet. As far as I know, the reason to avoid corn in a PSSM horse is purely because corn is predominately starch (which is also why it's a good idea to avoid high amounts in general in horses). If corn causes increased inflammation in horses, I don't know anything about it so I can't really say yay or neigh (hah) for certain. But I KNOW the high starch content is particularly important for a EPSM animal!!

 

[bhndblueyes88]

No idea if it's at all related, but I've read more than one persuasive piece making the argument that the widespread use of high fructose corn syrup is at the root of many of our widespread health problems that seem to have magically ballooned over the last forty years.

That shit doesn't even make food taste any better than sugar -__-

 

[BiBunny]

BiBun, where in the world are you that the horses are being fed mostly grain?! I'm glad you've managed to get your horse on a better diet. As far as I know, the reason to avoid corn in a PSSM horse is purely because corn is predominately starch (which is also why it's a good idea to avoid high amounts in general in horses). If corn causes increased inflammation in horses, I don't know anything about it so I can't really say yay or neigh (hah) for certain. But I KNOW the high starch content is particularly important for a EPSM animal!!

I worded that wrong. I should've said that unless there's plenty of open pasture, grain is usually used as for supplemental feeding to make up for what the horses don't get out of grass, hay, etc. My bad.

Where I found the corn thing in relation to EPSM (aside from, duh, don't feed grain, of course) was in regards to what types of fats to use to supplement the EPSM horse's diet. A lot of people use oil of some type, mixed in with a low-starch type feed (which, of course, you know ). That's what we do with my mare. I found lots of recommendations against the use of corn oil as supplemental fat because of the supposed inflammatory properties. My mare was in such bad shape when we figured out what was wrong with her that we didn't want to take any chances with something that might make the problem even worse than it already was, so we stayed away from corn oils.

Again, I have no idea if it's even true. It's just something I read and thought I'd throw out there.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

I worded that wrong. I should've said that unless there's plenty of open pasture, grain is usually used as for supplemental feeding to make up for what the horses don't get out of grass, hay, etc. My bad.

Where I found the corn thing in relation to EPSM (aside from, duh, don't feed grain, of course) was in regards to what types of fats to use to supplement the EPSM horse's diet. A lot of people use oil of some type, mixed in with a low-starch type feed (which, of course, you know ). That's what we do with my mare. I found lots of recommendations against the use of corn oil as supplemental fat because of the supposed inflammatory properties. My mare was in such bad shape when we figured out what was wrong with her that we didn't want to take any chances with something that might make the problem even worse than it already was, so we stayed away from corn oils.

Again, I have no idea if it's even true. It's just something I read and thought I'd throw out there.

Ahhh okay that makes more sense. I'm honestly not sure. I would definitely say that if it's an economic choice of "grain over oil" or "corn oil", still go with the corn oil. However in regards to the advantages of one oil over the other, I'm not sure. I'd have to look into it and I'm probably not going to find the time with the long list of things i have to look into I can put it on the list, though!

 

[BiBunny]

Ahhh okay that makes more sense. I'm honestly not sure. I would definitely say that if it's an economic choice of "grain over oil" or "corn oil", still go with the corn oil. However in regards to the advantages of one oil over the other, I'm not sure. I'd have to look into it and I'm probably not going to find the time with the long list of things i have to look into I can put it on the list, though!

Oh, I agree. We were/are able to feed her low-starch feed plus non-corn oil, and it works, so we don't tinker with it. Before we started the EPSM diet, we thought we were going to have to put her down, so the change was nothing short of miraculous!

But, yeah, I have no idea if the supposed inflammatory properties of corn,--as a starch, as an oil, anything--are real, but it was just something that occurred to me while reading the thread.

And don't add it to your list. You're working your tail off already!

/horsey hijack

Sorry about that.

 

[knot_sweet]

Honestly, the amount of artificial chemical crap in just about everything these days is pretty scary.

And the medical profession can't ever agree with the nutritionists. First it's 'dairy bad, eat margarine and soy'. Now it's 'dairy good, butter still bad, eat marg'. But I can't tell how eating something as heavily processed as margerine can possibly be better for you than butter.

For a while it was 'red meat bad'...now it's 'red meat two-three times a week'.

Lactose intolerant, gluten intolerant etc etc etc...it's enough to make your head spin

All I know is eat less processed food, eat fruit and veg that are in season to avoid cold storage /preservative/ pesticide laden products (snap frozen and tinned aside), avoid the chemical laden 'diet' foods and hope for the best.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I just got the book Wheat Belly by Dr. William Davis from the library. I'm highly skeptical that "everyone" is allergic to wheat and that every disease is from wheat. However, I do believe that we have been totally fucked over by the way foods have been processed and researched so that it's addicting and stuff.

I think, cutting back on breads can't be a bad thing but it turns out some wheat is in a lot of things. Which means I probably need to make my own.

I suspect the best way to proceed is to do a very basic diet, and only add one more thing in at a time and see how it affects you. That's assuming you can tell how things affect you. My girl with ADHD generally can't tell even when it's very obvious to me.

I also got, It's Starts With Food by Dallas and Melissa Hartwig. They REALLY pissed me off. Advising people to mostly eat MEAT and veggies, maybe a little fruit but NO beans or starches and stressing that a vegetarian or vegan diet is the source of all badness. What utter crap.

Right-- which is one way to cut one's diet back, simply trying to avoid all of those other foods...

Personally, I would be very happy to live on mostly meat and veggies I've always been mostly carnivorous. As it is, I'm going to try living on mostly veggies- and meat. And legumes.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Honestly, the amount of artificial chemical crap in just about everything these days is pretty scary.

And the medical profession can't ever agree with the nutritionists. First it's 'dairy bad, eat margarine and soy'. Now it's 'dairy good, butter still bad, eat marg'. But I can't tell how eating something as heavily processed as margerine can possibly be better for you than butter.

Last I heard, the going "ideal" was to avoid cooking with excess fats in general, vegetable oils are better than butter, and butter is better than trans-fats (which are SUPER EVIL). There's some margarine-type spreads out there now that don't contain trans-fats, but, like you, I'm skeptical. And, you know, I like my butter and EVOO just fine, thank you.

 

[graceanne]

People use the word "allergy" really, really, really, really broadly most of the time, but it's not meant to be a broad term. Intolerance and allergy are not the same thing. Allergies are immune reactions.

My old roommate used to say that she was "allergic" to Percocet because it made her sick to her stomach. Every time she said it, I wanted to kick her. Allergy =/= side effect

/personal soapbox

Very true. I'm gluten intolerant, it gives me the runs. I carpool with this girl who's full out celiac, she one time snuck a small piece of a fortune cookie, because she wanted to know how it tasted, and had a major allergic reaction. THAT'S an allergy. lol

Take this with a grain of salt, but...I have a horse with EPSM, which is essentially an inability to digest sugar and starch. Since most horses who don't live on a huge farm are fed mostly grain, this is a problem.

We didn't know what was wrong with her for a long time. She lost weight, her muscles were wasting away, and she was lame. I eventually read something about it on the Interwebz, and we tried changing her diet. In a couple of months, she was back to normal.

Anyway, the upshot of this is that as we were trying to help her get better, I read quite a few things that said to stay away from corn products, as they promote inflammation, at least in the joints, and that was a problem for poor horsey, since she was lame at the time. I have NO IDEA if this is even true or not, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

I think corn is a huge reason for many of America's health problems, obesity especially. I know corn makes me sick, like NOW. I don't know if I have a full blown allergy or a severe intolerance, but a can of pop (loaded with corn syrup) is enough to ensure I spend the rest of the night worshiping the porcelain god, and the next day I can barely walk my joints are so sore. Corn is never worth a cheat for me, the consequences are too severe.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

There's a pretty big difference between "corn" and "corn syrup", though. Worst effect I've heard of from plain ol' corn (in people not allergic) is lumpy shit

 

[knot_sweet]

Last I heard, the going "ideal" was to avoid cooking with excess fats in general, vegetable oils are better than butter, and butter is better than trans-fats (which are SUPER EVIL). There's some margarine-type spreads out there now that don't contain trans-fats, but, like you, I'm skeptical. And, you know, I like my butter and EVOO just fine, thank you.

Thankyou bhndblueyes88 - that info is appreciated. Er, what in the name of food groups is EVOO ?

 

[CutieMouse]

Thankyou bhndblueyes88 - that info is appreciated. Er, what in the name of food groups is EVOO ?

Extra Virgin Olive Oil.

[hijack]

HOWEVER... not all olive oils are the same - even those marked virgin or extra virgin. Because labeling laws allow olive oil to be marked "virgin/extra virgin", even if it is the dregs (often combined from multiple sources), instead of first cold pressed stock. The further from first cold press you get, the fewer benefits the oil offers.

I won't buy olive oil unless the label says it's a first press / cold press process. If the back of the label lists more than one county (or country) of origin, it doesn't come home with me.

[/hijack]

 

[graceanne]

There's a pretty big difference between "corn" and "corn syrup", though. Worst effect I've heard of from plain ol' corn (in people not allergic) is lumpy shit

Not that big, as corn syrup is just really refine corn.

And corn, like off the cob, makes me bleed anally. If I eat a lot, I throw up and I bleed from my stomach, too. Enough corn could probably get me back in the hospital and on prednisone. No thank you.

 

[midwestyankee]

Extra Virgin Olive Oil.

[hijack]

HOWEVER... not all olive oils are the same - even those marked virgin or extra virgin. Because labeling laws allow olive oil to be marked "virgin/extra virgin", even if it is the dregs (often combined from multiple sources), instead of first cold pressed stock. The further from first cold press you get, the fewer benefits the oil offers.

I won't buy olive oil unless the label says it's a first press / cold press process. If the back of the label lists more than one county (or country) of origin, it doesn't come home with me.

[/hijack]

I think I may have isolated your problem with men.

 

[Netzach]

I just got the book Wheat Belly by Dr. William Davis from the library. I'm highly skeptical that "everyone" is allergic to wheat and that every disease is from wheat. However, I do believe that we have been totally fucked over by the way foods have been processed and researched so that it's addicting and stuff.

I think, cutting back on breads can't be a bad thing but it turns out some wheat is in a lot of things. Which means I probably need to make my own.

I suspect the best way to proceed is to do a very basic diet, and only add one more thing in at a time and see how it affects you. That's assuming you can tell how things affect you. My girl with ADHD generally can't tell even when it's very obvious to me.

I also got, It's Starts With Food by Dallas and Melissa Hartwig. They REALLY pissed me off. Advising people to mostly eat MEAT and veggies, maybe a little fruit but NO beans or starches and stressing that a vegetarian or vegan diet is the source of all badness. What utter crap.

Vegetarian and vegan have been foisted off on everyone for a long time as the only way to be healthy. Some beans are more easily digestible than others (black and white yay, pinto, blerg) and some people will get sick without lean meat as their protein source. I never was overweight or miserable with food in my life until I hopped onto the compassion bandwagon and decided that chicken welfare trumped my own for a few years. (Actually it was more environment and food distribution issues for me, now I consider meat my favorite condiment.)

I love vegetarian food. Falafel, vegetable Indian everything...a lot of it does not love me.

If you do the "paleo" thing, it's still a lot of leaves with a bit of meat, not a pass to eat a cow every week.

 

[FurryFury]

This is what I do. I've been veggie my whole life because, due to the religion my parents were in at the time I was born I was raised that way.

No way is it not healthy, IF you actually eat veggies that are unprocessed instead of fast or convenience foods.

Honestly, the amount of artificial chemical crap in just about everything these days is pretty scary.

And the medical profession can't ever agree with the nutritionists. First it's 'dairy bad, eat margarine and soy'. Now it's 'dairy good, butter still bad, eat marg'. But I can't tell how eating something as heavily processed as margerine can possibly be better for you than butter.

For a while it was 'red meat bad'...now it's 'red meat two-three times a week'.

Lactose intolerant, gluten intolerant etc etc etc...it's enough to make your head spin

All I know is eat less processed food, eat fruit and veg that are in season to avoid cold storage /preservative/ pesticide laden products (snap frozen and tinned aside), avoid the chemical laden 'diet' foods and hope for the best.

 

[Ramrod325]

I think some people have a real gluten intolerance problem. I think it is ridiculous though to say that nobody should eat gluten. Some people are just health nuts and are getting relief from the placebo effect, if they get any relief at all. 95% of people don't have a gluten problem.

But remember, most health nuts don't walk around and spread their jungle rot to others.

 

[bhndblueyes88]

Not that big, as corn syrup is just really refine corn.

And corn, like off the cob, makes me bleed anally. If I eat a lot, I throw up and I bleed from my stomach, too. Enough corn could probably get me back in the hospital and on prednisone. No thank you.

Yikes, that is just...wretched xP


Personally, I always feel healthier eating a little meat every day. I feel like I have more energy, I get hungry MUCH less often than eating the equivalent protein in beans/tofu, and I just feel overall more satiated. As far as we know, we DID evolve as omnivores, so I see nothing wrong with eating a reasonable amount of meat every day.

Of course, there's the lovely discussion regarding eating insects...I think it sounds amazing in theory, but I still probably couldn't make myself do it

 

[Stella_Omega]

I just wanted to note here that the scales are showing a six pounds loss from the time I first posted here. That's six real pounds -- even allowing for fluids and stuff.

I can see them being not there and stuff!

That's mighty gratifying.

Dinner tonight was a half an acorn squash, a tilapia filet, a huge mixed greens salad. I don't miss the bread at all.

I can watch people eat cookies and pastries and not even care. Who would have ever thought!

 

[CutieMouse]

I think I may have isolated your problem with men.

Thankfully, it was one of The Men who loaned me the book that taught me how to buy prople olive oil.

So there!

 

[Loverskitten]

I just wanted to note here that the scales are showing a six pounds loss from the time I first posted here. That's six real pounds -- even allowing for fluids and stuff.

I can see them being not there and stuff!

That's mighty gratifying.

Dinner tonight was a half an acorn squash, a tilapia filet, a huge mixed greens salad. I don't miss the bread at all.

I can watch people eat cookies and pastries and not even care. Who would have ever thought!

Good job!

I can't seem to get into that no crap zone. I was super good over the summer when I lost like 20 lbs. but now that I only have 5-7. I can't seem to lay off the junk.

I remember being shocked that people were eating cupcakes and sweets around me and I had NO interest. Now it's all I want. I need rehab

 

[midwestyankee]

Thankfully, it was one of The Men who loaned me the book that taught me how to buy prople olive oil.

So there!

I want a book like that! I want to know what prople olive oil is so it can change my life forever.