where did you first hear the terms for BDSM?

[JMohegan]

Bottom's up?

Haha, there you go!

Well, being a Brit by origin, the ''first'' association is with the ass, and there's nothing wrong with a good behind.

Being a fan of the bard, when I hear Bottom, the ass, I think of a guy with a donkey head, stupid drunk on love in the forest.

 

[ecstaticsub]

I first heard BDSM terms in fiction and porn. When I first heard them my feeling was it was pure fantasy and no one lives like that in reality. Then I met my dominant who and we spent months just chatting about life, sex, and BDSM.

We use the terms dominant and submissive because 90% of our relationship is simple power exchange. The other 10% is what I consider top/bottoming activity-spanking, bondage, non-sexual sensation activities.

 

[where]

I hear you.

Heh, one day I'll find a lable that fits me and I can wear with pride.

To me, I find the word "bottom" degrading. Worse than slave. A slave with no value. And Top makes me think of a circus for some reason. But whatever floats your boat. I'm not a fan of PYL/pyl either.

I like PYL/pyl because I have no fucking clue what I am, so that fits. I really don't much like 'bottom' either. and like lizzie says it has connotations of passivity to me.

"Slave" is obnoxious because of the comparison to the real, non-consensual ones. "Submissive" just sounds weak and simpering. "Dominant" of course sounds strong and forceful, but "Dom" just sounds totally ridiculous.

yup. the use of slave really grates with me. I frequently have to bite my tongue when slave chime in on stuff around non-consent etc. Sub/missive is ok I suppose, as is Dom/inant. I fucking hate Domme though. it's a stupid made up word that is meaningless. if a man can be a dom or dominant, so can a woman.

maybe that should in fact be dominator?

 

[JMohegan]

maybe that should in fact be dominator?

Control freak works for me. If people want to be polite about it, they can refer to me as a "guy with control issues." But the bottom line is: if I'm not in control, I'm not playing.


Ha! Look at that. A firm & forceful use for the word bottom.

 

[eastern sun]

Though I understand the reasons, I'm kind of sad to see the term "slave" rejected here. If someone can't comfortably i.d. as "slave" within a BDSM context, where can s/he?

Are you suggesting that people should not take on that sexual identity at all?

 

[JMohegan]

Though I understand the reasons, I'm kind of sad to see the term "slave" rejected here. If someone can't comfortably i.d. as "slave" within a BDSM context, where can s/he?

Are you suggesting that people should not take on that sexual identity at all?

I'm saying I find application of the term in a consensual context obnoxious, for the reason given.

But my control issues don't extend to other people's relationships. As long as it is consensual, I'd vote for letting people call themselves whatever they want. If the term gets you off, makes you feel grounded, whatever.... rock on.

 

[00Syd]

The worst term they embraced was "Master," because it's so fucking pretentious. (Though, somewhat ironically, its overuse now makes it sound pedestrian.)

"Slave" is obnoxious because of the comparison to the real, non-consensual ones. "Submissive" just sounds weak and simpering. "Dominant" of course sounds strong and forceful, but "Dom" just sounds totally ridiculous.

I actually agree with all of this. And I think that that's why the neutral quality of top and bottom is so appealing for a lot of people.

 

[00Syd]

I fucking hate Domme though. it's a stupid made up word that is meaningless. if a man can be a dom or dominant, so can a woman.

Oh yeah, word. That always seemed so strange to me, too.

 

[BiBunny]

I think Domina is worse than Domme. But that's just me.

 

[ownedsubgal]

yup. the use of slave really grates with me. I frequently have to bite my tongue when slave chime in on stuff around non-consent etc.

i've never gotten this argument against the use of the term slave. slavery is not defined by lack of consent, it's defined by ownership and control. lack of consent is the default context in which most people think of slavery, making it sort of a connotation, but the reality is that consent has nothing to do with it.

btw...i do not identify with "slave" in a BDSM context at all...in my mind that denotes the Leather community, and means something entirely different from what i understand slavery to be.

i agree on the word Domme...they've pretty much stopped using the word "actress," because so many female actors found it incredibly offensive. hopefully Domme will go that same route.

 

[callinectes2]

The worst term they embraced was "Master," because it's so fucking pretentious. (Though, somewhat ironically, its overuse now makes it sound pedestrian.)

"Slave" is obnoxious because of the comparison to the real, non-consensual ones. "Submissive" just sounds weak and simpering. "Dominant" of course sounds strong and forceful, but "Dom" just sounds totally ridiculous.

Ha Ha! You have summarized why all labels are BS, yet the topic comes up on Lit pretty often.

 

[callinectes2]

I like PYL/pyl because I have no fucking clue what I am, so that fits. ?

It also has the advantage of not offending anyone when you don't know what their preferred label is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Though I understand the reasons, I'm kind of sad to see the term "slave" rejected here. If someone can't comfortably i.d. as "slave" within a BDSM context, where can s/he?

Are you suggesting that people should not take on that sexual identity at all?

"Slave" hits a lot of hot, wet, buttons for me, and I cheerfully own my inconsistency because I love that one even though...

 

[JMohegan]

I actually agree with all of this. And I think that that's why the neutral quality of top and bottom is so appealing for a lot of people.

This reminds me of the time I made a partner memorize that old Cole Porter song, and sing it to me. Very entertaining.

Ha Ha! You have summarized why all labels are BS, yet the topic comes up on Lit pretty often.

I like "switch." An apt descriptor, plus the bonus association with a fine striking implement.

 

[JMohegan]

I think Domina is worse than Domme. But that's just me.

If I were female, I'd be tempted to go with "Goddess." For some reason, that particular absurdity has a certain appeal.

 

[BiBunny]

If I were female, I'd be tempted to go with "Goddess." For some reason, that particular absurdity has a certain appeal.

One of my PSO characters uses "Goddess." I did it because it makes me laugh. If I'm topping, I just stick with "Miss" if the bottom absolutely must use a title. I'm still 20 years too young to be "Ma'am."

 

[Stella_Omega]

This reminds me of the time I made a partner memorize that old Cole Porter song, and sing it to me. Very entertaining.


I like "switch." An apt descriptor, plus the bonus association with a fine striking implement.

I always think of that little rectangle on the wall near the door.

 

[where]

]

Though I understand the reasons, I'm kind of sad to see the term "slave" rejected here. If someone can't comfortably i.d. as "slave" within a BDSM context, where can s/he?

Are you suggesting that people should not take on that sexual identity at all?

I'm cool with people calling themselves whatever they want. I still dislike the term.

I think Domina is worse than Domme. But that's just me.

why does the term have to be gendered though? it isn't for submissives.

i've never gotten this argument against the use of the term slave. slavery is not defined by lack of consent, it's defined by ownership and control. lack of consent is the default context in which most people think of slavery, making it sort of a connotation, but the reality is that consent has nothing to do with it.

btw...i do not identify with "slave" in a BDSM context at all...in my mind that denotes the Leather community, and means something entirely different from what i understand slavery to be

precisely. and even if in your relationship you are under that kind of control, it is still fictitious compared with what 'real' slaves undergo.

as an illustration, your (using 'your' generically) master decides he's bored of you, and decides that you are going to be sold to some guy 300 miles away. this not only means you and your children have to uproot, but you then discover that your new master is HIV+ and prefers to have anal bareback.

My guess is that any 'slave' will suddenly discover a degree of agency and get the fuck out of that relationship.

I wonder what real slaves would think about pampered western women playing at slavery and saying that non-consent is not an issue, as they get raped every day of their lives against their consent (because as you say, consent does exist within a slave's life, it just means it isn't taken into consideration), often kept in line with threats of violence, not just against their own person, but against their families.

 

[BiBunny]

why does the term have to be gendered though? it isn't for submissives.

It doesn't. I was just bitching about a word that annoys me, LOL.

 

[midwestyankee]

Heh, one day I'll find a lable that fits me and I can wear with pride.

Hmmm...what's coming to mind resembles a clothing label and it reads "100% Kinky."

To answer Stella's original question: I think I first encountered the terms in reading porn or reading about porn in literary journals/articles. Much of what I know about the practices that happen under the bdsm umbrella I have learned here and in the various books I've read since first developing a personal interest. SM101, The Loving Dominant, and The New Topping Book are three that come to mind.

 

[eastern sun]

I wonder what real slaves would think about pampered western women playing at slavery and saying that non-consent is not an issue, as they get raped every day of their lives against their consent (because as you say, consent does exist within a slave's life, it just means it isn't taken into consideration), often kept in line with threats of violence, not just against their own person, but against their families.

Wow. When you put it like that it makes me hate myself. Maybe I should change. Fundamentally. Maybe I'm deep down wrong to play this game. It seems morally indefensible.

 

[FloggingMolly]

Maybe I'm weird, but I honestly don't care. You're welcome to call yourself what you like, as am I. No jugdement, no BS from me. If you suddenly decide that 'yellow' is how you identify, sure, go for it. After all, what I define it as is probably different to what you think of it as anyhow.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Wow. When you put it like that it makes me hate myself. Maybe I should change. Fundamentally. Maybe I'm deep down wrong to play this game. It seems morally indefensible.

That's the Starving Children In China argument. It's a good one-- but you can't get send your spaghetti to China, can you?

You can support anti-global slavery efforts while you enjoy a lifestyle that has a superficial similarity to some of the things people think of when they think of "slavery."

 

[rinka]

I just want to know why people use "sub" where I would use "bottom," and "dom" where I would say "top." It doesn't matter if it's fantasy, it's the usage that I wonder about.

I ask because there are assumptions that go along with those words that worry me quite a bit, as I'm sure you know.

Top and bottom speak to a set of overall tendencies which may include some but not necessarily all power exchange practices. Dominant and submissive sound like writ-in-stone personality traits, and most people assume that's what those words mean.

Sure, some bottom-type folk learn that they are not actually submissive after a while, but to begin with that and have to overcome the first impression just adds one more hurdle to the burden of self discovery.

Maybe dominant and submissive have become more generic because you can easily put or imply sexually in front of it.

"I am (sexually) dominant/ submissive." It stands more by itself whereas top/bottom relates more to each other, maybe.

Just throwing it out there, English isn't even my first language and I haven't been around very long either.

 

[eastern sun]

That's the Starving Children In China argument. It's a good one-- but you can't get send your spaghetti to China, can you?

You can support anti-global slavery efforts while you enjoy a lifestyle that has a superficial similarity to some of the things people think of when they think of "slavery."

What I, in fact, feel most deeply ashamed of is the fact that I get turned on whenever I read accounts of gang rape in the Congo, white slave rings in Russia, forced marriage in south Asia and sex crimes in NYC. I have often used the newspaper to masturbate.