Where is the love in BDSM?
- Thread starter Natalie Nessus
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SierraMoon
Being me
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i was in a BDSM relationship with a friend of mine. We didn't have the love and caring that we should have had. We missed out on so many of the good things that come with having a love between a Dom and sub. He and i had respect for each other, and trust too, but not anything near love.
Now i am in an LDR with my Sir, and we have a loving, trusting relationship, and we haven't even met in r/l yet. Already, we have so much more than i had with my ex Dom, and i haven't even had the pleasure of feeling his hand on me. After finding this kind of affection with Sir, i could never go back to a relationship like i had before!!
So, i believe that love completes the Dom/sub relationship, i believe it is the glue that holds it together. IMHO
Now i am in an LDR with my Sir, and we have a loving, trusting relationship, and we haven't even met in r/l yet. Already, we have so much more than i had with my ex Dom, and i haven't even had the pleasure of feeling his hand on me. After finding this kind of affection with Sir, i could never go back to a relationship like i had before!!
So, i believe that love completes the Dom/sub relationship, i believe it is the glue that holds it together. IMHO
From my standpoint as young and not fully formed, emotionally, I cannot imagine myself ever being capable of giving the amount of trust necessary to ensure a healthy D/s relationship and not giving my heart in the process. I attach quickly and strongly. Yeah, I'm a leech. 
I think I would enjoy playing with a partner irregularly, and I would not need nor desire love for that, merely respect and mutual need. The classy "one night stand." But for any sort of lasting relationship, I haven't found myself able to commit part of the way. All or nothing.
Excellent thread to bump up, MissT, and very thought-provoking!
I think I would enjoy playing with a partner irregularly, and I would not need nor desire love for that, merely respect and mutual need. The classy "one night stand." But for any sort of lasting relationship, I haven't found myself able to commit part of the way. All or nothing.
Excellent thread to bump up, MissT, and very thought-provoking!
MissTaken
Biker Chick
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Just a quick thought:
The thread title could feasibly read, "Where is the love in sex?"
Perhaps the responses would be the same.
For me, and perhaps me alone, sex and BDSM are ways in which love and affection are expressed. The relationship is not identified by BDSM, but by love and affection.
So, first comes love
Then comes BDSM.
I do however believe and have had very lovely relationships with "fuck buddies" before engaging in BDSM.
Is love necessary to have good sex or good BDSM?
No.
However, a loving and respect in any relationship is what gives that relationship longevity and sex, BDSM or not is an expression of that love. Growing together emotionally as well as sexually is what breathes life into that relationship.
I can have sex without love.
I can submit without love.
I prefer to not do either, but as circumstances have had it, that hasn't always been the case. I have done both and enjoyed it.
Now, in truth, in my experience, BDSM gives a Dominant a a means by which to demonstrate love. His care, teaching, instructions, directions, his willingness to please his submissive requires more thought than in most vanilla relationships.
As such, I have never felt as cherished or cared for as I do when in a loving BDSM relationship. Does that negate love in vanilla relatinships? Certainly not. We are all unique individuals and have a variety of needs, wants, desires, dreams, and fantasies.
Love is love and when found, there is nothing greater.
And yes! I am a romantic!
The thread title could feasibly read, "Where is the love in sex?"
Perhaps the responses would be the same.
For me, and perhaps me alone, sex and BDSM are ways in which love and affection are expressed. The relationship is not identified by BDSM, but by love and affection.
So, first comes love
Then comes BDSM.
I do however believe and have had very lovely relationships with "fuck buddies" before engaging in BDSM.
Is love necessary to have good sex or good BDSM?
No.
However, a loving and respect in any relationship is what gives that relationship longevity and sex, BDSM or not is an expression of that love. Growing together emotionally as well as sexually is what breathes life into that relationship.
I can have sex without love.
I can submit without love.
I prefer to not do either, but as circumstances have had it, that hasn't always been the case. I have done both and enjoyed it.
Now, in truth, in my experience, BDSM gives a Dominant a a means by which to demonstrate love. His care, teaching, instructions, directions, his willingness to please his submissive requires more thought than in most vanilla relationships.
As such, I have never felt as cherished or cared for as I do when in a loving BDSM relationship. Does that negate love in vanilla relatinships? Certainly not. We are all unique individuals and have a variety of needs, wants, desires, dreams, and fantasies.
Love is love and when found, there is nothing greater.
And yes! I am a romantic!
Richard49
The Gentleman Dom
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MissTaken said:
Now, in truth, in my experience, BDSM gives a Dominant a a means by which to demonstrate love. His care, teaching, instructions, directions, his willingness to please his submissive requires more thought than in most vanilla relationships.
I have never read a truer statement !!!!
I just got call from R
I posted about it on the bionic thread
Justina123
Really Really Experienced
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Has anyone here experienced where being "in love" can mess up a d/s relationship?
Just curious... in the last month or so, Sir has told me a couple of times he is falling in love with me and I have noticed a lot more kissing, affection, etc... which thrill me. On the other hand, there have been times when I wanted him to be harsher, meaner, more firm, if you know what I mean, as has been normal for him, but he seems to be getting quite soft towards me...
I am in love with him, but I do not want being in love to change the Dom/sub dynamic in our relationship!
I certainly don't want to knock my increidble blessings...Am I rambling here? Can anyone help me make more sense? ha.
-justina
Just curious... in the last month or so, Sir has told me a couple of times he is falling in love with me and I have noticed a lot more kissing, affection, etc... which thrill me. On the other hand, there have been times when I wanted him to be harsher, meaner, more firm, if you know what I mean, as has been normal for him, but he seems to be getting quite soft towards me...
I am in love with him, but I do not want being in love to change the Dom/sub dynamic in our relationship!
I certainly don't want to knock my increidble blessings...Am I rambling here? Can anyone help me make more sense? ha.
-justina
Ebonyfire
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Love and romance
are not the same thing, and people do themselves a disservice when they lump them together.
Sex and love are not the same thing either.
D/s and love are not the same thing either.
I prefer to live my life without romantic expectations. Expectations are a trap in that you project your needs and desires on to someone else, and let's face it, it is usually a dismal mistake.
I believe in love, but I do not believe in the concept of "being in love." I have posted this before, but I felt like saying it again.
If you love, love without conditions or strings.
Just my thoughts. YMMV.
are not the same thing, and people do themselves a disservice when they lump them together.
Sex and love are not the same thing either.
D/s and love are not the same thing either.
I prefer to live my life without romantic expectations. Expectations are a trap in that you project your needs and desires on to someone else, and let's face it, it is usually a dismal mistake.
I believe in love, but I do not believe in the concept of "being in love." I have posted this before, but I felt like saying it again.
If you love, love without conditions or strings.
Just my thoughts. YMMV.
justina,
Yes, I understand what you're saying and I know what it feels like. On another thread, I said that love ought to be emphasized when it enriches, rather than diminishes. I like my dominance to be decidedly unloving, the majority of the time. It's more exciting to me and that is what I desire in sex (read: BDSM).
All I can say is to be honest with your partner and clarify that you know he loves and cares for you, and so he doesn't need to express it all the time...especially during times when you'd much prefer to keep that love unspoken and get on with more, errr, exciting things. We are all multifaceted people; one expression of ourselves is not always appropriate. Let him know your needs and how you need them fulfilled, and I'm sure he'll oblige. Best wishes!
Quint "Yes, the doctor is in...the doctor of loooooove"
Yes, I understand what you're saying and I know what it feels like. On another thread, I said that love ought to be emphasized when it enriches, rather than diminishes. I like my dominance to be decidedly unloving, the majority of the time. It's more exciting to me and that is what I desire in sex (read: BDSM).
All I can say is to be honest with your partner and clarify that you know he loves and cares for you, and so he doesn't need to express it all the time...especially during times when you'd much prefer to keep that love unspoken and get on with more, errr, exciting things. We are all multifaceted people; one expression of ourselves is not always appropriate. Let him know your needs and how you need them fulfilled, and I'm sure he'll oblige. Best wishes!
Quint "Yes, the doctor is in...the doctor of loooooove"
bunny bondage
just cruisin' through
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hey, where's this thread been hiding?
well, i know this probably sounds naive, and a little childish, and i'm sure there are a few out there who will say "bah, not even old enough to drink, doesn't know what she's talking about" but i'm going to say it anyway!
i have always believed in the stupid fairy tale of some dom in shining leather will come and whisk me away to his palace dungeon where we live happily ever after. for me (i know it's not for everyone) love is a must-have when it comes to subbing to someone. trust is the first thing, you see, and that is slowly built up over time, perhaps with a little kinky sex or just getting to know the person. after trust, then love can blossom. so i guess trust then love then submission is my formula for a good relationship. i am fortunate enough to be with a loving trusting man who i care deeply for, and yes, am simply head over heels in love with. i get all giddy and dreamy eyed when He's around, and i feel like sunshine jelly when i think of Him. i respect so many things about Him, and trust Him completly. if i were falling off a cliff, and the only way He could save my life was to fling Himself off, i know He'd do it. now, true, this situation is probably never going to arise, but i hope i've made my point. to me, love is the bond that helps you accept all the things about a person, and love must come from trusting them. er...i hope i'm making sense. you see, i'm at the universtiy right now in the computer lab while He prints off a copy of His old thesis paper. after this, we're going over to His office and we're going to make a little movie! (it's late, nobody's going to be around, this is the PERFECT time for a little "extra credit")
upon asking, He says He's almost done, so i guess i'll end here. i hope i made sense...erm, love is important to me! gotta have it!
well, i know this probably sounds naive, and a little childish, and i'm sure there are a few out there who will say "bah, not even old enough to drink, doesn't know what she's talking about" but i'm going to say it anyway!
i have always believed in the stupid fairy tale of some dom in shining leather will come and whisk me away to his palace dungeon where we live happily ever after. for me (i know it's not for everyone) love is a must-have when it comes to subbing to someone. trust is the first thing, you see, and that is slowly built up over time, perhaps with a little kinky sex or just getting to know the person. after trust, then love can blossom. so i guess trust then love then submission is my formula for a good relationship. i am fortunate enough to be with a loving trusting man who i care deeply for, and yes, am simply head over heels in love with. i get all giddy and dreamy eyed when He's around, and i feel like sunshine jelly when i think of Him. i respect so many things about Him, and trust Him completly. if i were falling off a cliff, and the only way He could save my life was to fling Himself off, i know He'd do it. now, true, this situation is probably never going to arise, but i hope i've made my point. to me, love is the bond that helps you accept all the things about a person, and love must come from trusting them. er...i hope i'm making sense. you see, i'm at the universtiy right now in the computer lab while He prints off a copy of His old thesis paper. after this, we're going over to His office and we're going to make a little movie! (it's late, nobody's going to be around, this is the PERFECT time for a little "extra credit")
upon asking, He says He's almost done, so i guess i'll end here. i hope i made sense...erm, love is important to me! gotta have it!
cellis
Saucy
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It is funny that I should come back to this...
In the beginning, before we really loved each other, He did not push as hard or as fast or as much as I would have liked Him to.
Now that I know how much He loves me, He pushes harder and more that He ever has.
I see our relationship growing and changing... I see the greater trust developing... yes there is need there... I need what He does for and to me... and He needs to be able to do it...
I don't know if love has anything to do with it... I just know that after a major crisis last fall, everything changed for the better.
In the beginning, before we really loved each other, He did not push as hard or as fast or as much as I would have liked Him to.
Now that I know how much He loves me, He pushes harder and more that He ever has.
I see our relationship growing and changing... I see the greater trust developing... yes there is need there... I need what He does for and to me... and He needs to be able to do it...
I don't know if love has anything to do with it... I just know that after a major crisis last fall, everything changed for the better.
Shadowsdream
Dream Maker
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Yes...over and over and over again.Justina123 said:
Love often softens the Domination and control when it is the Dominant that is in love....strengthens the need for Domination and control when it is the submissive in love...when they are in love with each other and the Domination softens while the submission deepens...well you see the conflict...confusion...loss rather than gain.
When the relationship ends the Dominant wonders why but the submissive knows exactly why. The relationship had begun to edge slowly and subtly back into the vanilla mindset.
...of course as always I am speaking of a relationship that BEGAN because of the needs both had and searched for...in BDSM.
Netzach
>semiotics?
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I'm soooooo with Eb.
Romance is overrated. Love is not the insipid fawning fumbling thing that gets us emotionally traumatized, it's expectation. Real love, true love, the kind that lasts, outlasts the relationship. It never changes or goes away, it's the thing that is between you, not the current issue of HOW things are between you.
I love everyone I've played with, and everyone I've ever had sex with.
I've only loved a few of them on a romantic level. Some deservedly, some mistakenly. And that's a transient thing, it's infatuation, it's not sustaining. After the madness, something else must arise, something of respect, and complete, selfless, acceptance of the other as the other. Of the individuality of that person, separate from you, as sacred.
Parents call this the ability to let go. I've met very few grown lovers with this ability or the ability to teach this lesson, this lesson that even small children seem to grasp better.
I don't think that kind of love, compassionate, respectful love, messes with the D/s dynamic in a relationship. For me it's necessary. Romance can bump it to the next level for me, but both flavors are good ones.
Romance is overrated. Love is not the insipid fawning fumbling thing that gets us emotionally traumatized, it's expectation. Real love, true love, the kind that lasts, outlasts the relationship. It never changes or goes away, it's the thing that is between you, not the current issue of HOW things are between you.
I love everyone I've played with, and everyone I've ever had sex with.
I've only loved a few of them on a romantic level. Some deservedly, some mistakenly. And that's a transient thing, it's infatuation, it's not sustaining. After the madness, something else must arise, something of respect, and complete, selfless, acceptance of the other as the other. Of the individuality of that person, separate from you, as sacred.
Parents call this the ability to let go. I've met very few grown lovers with this ability or the ability to teach this lesson, this lesson that even small children seem to grasp better.
I don't think that kind of love, compassionate, respectful love, messes with the D/s dynamic in a relationship. For me it's necessary. Romance can bump it to the next level for me, but both flavors are good ones.
lark sparrow
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Justina123 said:
It could be just another adjustment that needs to happen in all evolving relationships - like long-term D/s, being "in love" may offer it's own set of challenges, but I think if D/s is and remains at the heart of the relationship in terms of need it can merely be a bump in the road. I believe that romantic love and D/s can co-exist, although one is certainly not necessary for the other.
Justina123
Really Really Experienced
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From Shadowsdream:
Love often softens the Domination and control when it is the Dominant that is in love....strengthens the need for Domination and control when it is the submissive in love...when they are in love with each other and the Domination softens while the submission deepens...well you see the conflict...confusion...loss rather than gain.
When the relationship ends the Dominant wonders why but the submissive knows exactly why. The relationship had begun to edge slowly and subtly back into the vanilla mindset.
Oh, that is exactly what I have sensed starting, and I do NOT want it to! And I don't really think Sir wants it ito either, our relationship began firmly as Dom/sub, that has been the cement of the attraction, and we have been happily surprised to find that we enjoy each other in seemingly "vanilla" "day to day life" times too, but it's the D/s that is the foundation. We both enjoy s/m kinky play very, very much and do it often, but it's the Dom/sub personality, relationship, etc. that is the core and just part of who we are.
Quint said:
All I can say is to be honest with your partner and clarify that you know he loves and cares for you, ... <snip>Let him know your needs and how you need them fulfilled, and I'm sure he'll oblige. Best wishes!
I am an awful communicator but I do think this is very good advice that I'm gonna have to push myself to follow. Last weekend he told me "I'm falling in love with you. I am just so damn comfortable with you." It made alarm bells go off in my head, I don't want comfortable to equal bored or whatever. Many months ago he told me once that our relationship would only work 24/7 if we have MORE than just kinky sex and D/s in common, and I hope by saying that he is comfortable with me that he was saying that he is finding that our relationship DOES work on a day-to-day basis...
Uh, oh, here I go rambling again! I will stop...
-justina
Love often softens the Domination and control when it is the Dominant that is in love....strengthens the need for Domination and control when it is the submissive in love...when they are in love with each other and the Domination softens while the submission deepens...well you see the conflict...confusion...loss rather than gain.
When the relationship ends the Dominant wonders why but the submissive knows exactly why. The relationship had begun to edge slowly and subtly back into the vanilla mindset.
Oh, that is exactly what I have sensed starting, and I do NOT want it to! And I don't really think Sir wants it ito either, our relationship began firmly as Dom/sub, that has been the cement of the attraction, and we have been happily surprised to find that we enjoy each other in seemingly "vanilla" "day to day life" times too, but it's the D/s that is the foundation. We both enjoy s/m kinky play very, very much and do it often, but it's the Dom/sub personality, relationship, etc. that is the core and just part of who we are.
Quint said:
All I can say is to be honest with your partner and clarify that you know he loves and cares for you, ... <snip>Let him know your needs and how you need them fulfilled, and I'm sure he'll oblige. Best wishes!
I am an awful communicator but I do think this is very good advice that I'm gonna have to push myself to follow. Last weekend he told me "I'm falling in love with you. I am just so damn comfortable with you." It made alarm bells go off in my head, I don't want comfortable to equal bored or whatever. Many months ago he told me once that our relationship would only work 24/7 if we have MORE than just kinky sex and D/s in common, and I hope by saying that he is comfortable with me that he was saying that he is finding that our relationship DOES work on a day-to-day basis...
Uh, oh, here I go rambling again! I will stop...
-justina
bunny bondage
just cruisin' through
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Netzach said:
i would have had no idea what you were talking about until about half a year ago. i figured that love was something you felt for someone when you were in a relationship with them, and that was all. but after ending things with my ex, i find that we do still love each other, even though we're not "with" each other anymore. we've remained close friends and i doubt that will ever change. (just adding in my two cents)
FungiUg
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Nessus said:I think it is important, it is the glue to hold together.
It is the trust
Love is an emotion that someone feels. In a relationship, love is most often the cornerstone. But it's such a non-definate term. I love my car, I love my cat, I love my partner. I might enjoy tieing up my partner, but I won't tie up by cat. And I certainly won't fuck my car!
BDSM is an expression of fantasy, kink and yes, love. But it doesn't contain or rely on love. Rather, love can contain and express itself through BDSM. And through other means ("say it with flowers.")
ethereal~minx
challenge to your balance
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*stomping like a child* but Shadowsdream
Shadowsdream
Shadowsdream
Last edited:
psiberzerker
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I'd like to interject here that sex, and love are two diferent things. You can have one with out the other, or they can co-exist. Add in Ds, or SM, and people get confused. They don't always understand that you can have bondage without sex, and beat the people you love. Thus, the love polyhedron you here so much about.
Love is an axis that a relationship can revolve around, so is sex(Or other sensual persuits like SM), and Dominance is another. These can come together at points, but they're no the same thing, or even parralel. Other times, they may be skew, neither intersecting, nor parallel, and perhapse working against each other. Maybe that's why people call us kinky?
None of the ways a relationship can move, and grow are mutually exclusive, nor manditory for each other. We can interact in so many beautifull, or horrible ways. Sometimes there's even beauty in the horror, and vice versa (Kinda a yin/yang thing).
Love is an axis that a relationship can revolve around, so is sex(Or other sensual persuits like SM), and Dominance is another. These can come together at points, but they're no the same thing, or even parralel. Other times, they may be skew, neither intersecting, nor parallel, and perhapse working against each other. Maybe that's why people call us kinky?
None of the ways a relationship can move, and grow are mutually exclusive, nor manditory for each other. We can interact in so many beautifull, or horrible ways. Sometimes there's even beauty in the horror, and vice versa (Kinda a yin/yang thing).
ethereal~minx
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psiberzerker
it is not you personally~ it is, the words
it is also the first post i read after posting mine *smiling because~~GOD!!! i LOVE LIFE*
Your words provoke me on many levels~
[...that sex, and love are two diferent things...]
so many pieces to this one~ ...ARE two DIFFERENT things. is it that sex is a physical act only and love is something different? or what? what is the difference and can you prove it? how is it that ANYONE can say something so absolute or i guess, i should say~~ is it --is it proven in some way? i cannot fathom the distinction that makes any sense to me. please help.
sex without love. assuming the reader is the one engaging in the sex without love, is there joy in this?
[...and people get confused.] said with such conviction, -- people GET confused. that is absolute, definite, no bending on that one
will you create this for me with your words~ in a way that i will see it as i follow every line, please? [love polyhedron] *harmlessly whispering in your ear* i don't know how to fit what i've written into what you say is a polyhedron... because the only thing i know about that word is that it's a shape--i think *charming bit o'pertiness* ohkaaay my i'm feelin a bit silly~~
it is not you personally~ it is, the words
it is also the first post i read after posting mine *smiling because~~GOD!!! i LOVE LIFE*
Your words provoke me on many levels~
[...that sex, and love are two diferent things...]
so many pieces to this one~ ...ARE two DIFFERENT things. is it that sex is a physical act only and love is something different? or what? what is the difference and can you prove it? how is it that ANYONE can say something so absolute or i guess, i should say~~ is it --is it proven in some way? i cannot fathom the distinction that makes any sense to me. please help.
sex without love. assuming the reader is the one engaging in the sex without love, is there joy in this?
[...and people get confused.] said with such conviction, -- people GET confused. that is absolute, definite, no bending on that one
will you create this for me with your words~ in a way that i will see it as i follow every line, please? [love polyhedron] *harmlessly whispering in your ear* i don't know how to fit what i've written into what you say is a polyhedron... because the only thing i know about that word is that it's a shape--i think *charming bit o'pertiness* ohkaaay my i'm feelin a bit silly~~
psiberzerker
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In geometry, a polyhedron is a solid with many faces, sides, and axes. A shape of shapes, sort of. Like a cube.
Sex, and love are not mutually exclusive, they serve the same origonal purpose, to get people together for the purpose of making more. There's at least enought people around now that that evolutionary service is rapidly becomming moot, so they too are evolving into something new.
If you haven't noticed, sex feels good, it's fun, so it can exist for it's self, and our own personal enjoyment. Love is also something that feels good, but it doesn't always lead to a physical relationship. There can be platonic love just as there can be loveless sex.
Few people I've met really understand love so much as sex, it is neither quantifiable, nor something you can point too. As an abstract, people often see it in places where it just aint. I suspect that particular four lettered word is uttered nowhere so much as across a pillow. Basking in the afterglow of a little meat piston action, it's often easy to confuse the satisfied sensation of well being for love. One of the reasons why I like the euphemism "Making love", it forces people to marraige.
Sex, and love are not mutually exclusive, they serve the same origonal purpose, to get people together for the purpose of making more. There's at least enought people around now that that evolutionary service is rapidly becomming moot, so they too are evolving into something new.
If you haven't noticed, sex feels good, it's fun, so it can exist for it's self, and our own personal enjoyment. Love is also something that feels good, but it doesn't always lead to a physical relationship. There can be platonic love just as there can be loveless sex.
Few people I've met really understand love so much as sex, it is neither quantifiable, nor something you can point too. As an abstract, people often see it in places where it just aint. I suspect that particular four lettered word is uttered nowhere so much as across a pillow. Basking in the afterglow of a little meat piston action, it's often easy to confuse the satisfied sensation of well being for love. One of the reasons why I like the euphemism "Making love", it forces people to marraige.
