Why do women stay in abusive relationships?

[Stella_Omega]

I love how people who have experienced "emotional abuse" call themselves survivors.

Take off the scare quotes. Emotional abuse is pretty damn abusive, even if bystanders can't see the scars.

 

[Chiara_searches]

I love how people who have experienced "emotional abuse" call themselves survivors.

Really? And why is that?

Yes, FJ, why is that?

Take off the scare quotes. Emotional abuse is pretty damn abusive, even if bystanders can't see the scars.

I agree with Stella. Well said.

 

[ImOnIt]

removed because I changed my mind

 

[minx1]

I love how people who have experienced "emotional abuse" call themselves survivors.

That seems somewhat narrowminded and smacks of how some people dont view mental illness as a bona fide illness.

Take off the scare quotes. Emotional abuse is pretty damn abusive, even if bystanders can't see the scars.

So true.

Having been through both I have never called myself a survivor. I dont identify with that time anymore and it is so long ago in my past that I dont see it as something that defines me.

But personally I reckon people who walked in those shoes; who have gone through abuse of any description and come out of it at the other end, can call themselves whatever they choose.

If they see themselves as survivors, its probably because they have.

 

[Felix_Jones]

It's a matter of scale.

Doesn't survival imply some sort of serious threat to one's existence? I'm thinking a person in Japan who watches as their house is being engulfed in a wave of flaming garbage wondering if he's next certainly deserves the term much more than some chick whose husband calls her fat.

It seems like the word is losing its meaning, its grave implications. It's being psychobabbled into irrelevance.

 

[FurryFury]

I strongly disagree with you about this. I've survived all kinds of things that didn't involve flooding or fires but nearly destroyed, killed me or made me want to kill myself, anyway. I understand you probably haven't been around such things enough to understand, or empathize. Good for you not going through that much damaging stuff. Hopefully you haven't inflicted it in that ignorance either. Reguardless, your remarks about this make me extremely angry.

I am a survivor in the best sense of the word. It's not the first thing I bring up with people. It's the strongest and truest self definition I have. No one else gets to legitimately decide if I deserve it or not.

FF

It's a matter of scale.

Doesn't survival imply some sort of serious threat to one's existence? I'm thinking a person in Japan who watches as their house is being engulfed in a wave of flaming garbage wondering if he's next certainly deserves the term much more than some chick whose husband calls her fat.

It seems like the word is losing its meaning, its grave implications. It's being psychobabbled into irrelevance.

 

[Felix_Jones]

I strongly disagree with you about this. I've survived all kinds of things that didn't involve flooding or fires but nearly destroyed, killed me or made me want to kill myself, anyway. I understand you probably haven't been around such things enough to understand, or empathize. Good for you not going through that much damaging stuff. Hopefully you haven't inflicted it in that ignorance either. Reguardless, your remarks about this make me extremely angry.

I am a survivor in the best sense of the word. It's not the first thing I bring up with people. It's the strongest and truest self definition I have. No one else gets to legitimately decide if I deserve it or not.

FF

Please allow me to refer you to my first post on this matter....emotional abuse...I'm not saying that if you had some crazy disease, or a bullet wound you're not deserving of the term. Shit, if some dude is beating you senseless on a regular basis, I think it applies there as well.
But daddy not paying attention to the fact that mommy didn't care does not constitute a level of danger that would imply survival.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a matter of scale.

Doesn't survival imply some sort of serious threat to one's existence? I'm thinking a person in Japan who watches as their house is being engulfed in a wave of flaming garbage wondering if he's next certainly deserves the term much more than some chick whose husband calls her fat.

It seems like the word is losing its meaning, its grave implications. It's being psychobabbled into irrelevance.

I would say that the scale you expect from the word is your expectation-- not actually implicit in the meaning of the word at all.

I have a similar knee-jerk reaction when I see the word "Slut" being used in the casual way so many people do. To me, there are some very specific and hideous connotations to that word-- but the truth is, more people don't care about my worries, they use it in a different way-- and it's a useful word, when used that way

Words don't become irrelevant when layers of meaning are added to them. They become more relevant.

But daddy not paying attention to the fact that mommy didn't care does not constitute a level of danger that would imply survival.

a child neglected by both parents will have a tough time surviving. Even if the organism keeps breathing, it may well be missing a number of higher functions, jettisoned because they take energy that is necessary for basic survival.
Go to any war area, or really dismal slum. You will find lots of human-looking creatures that did not survive as human beings.

 

[Felix_Jones]

I would say that the scale you expect from the word is your expectation-- not actually implicit in the meaning of the word at all.

I have a similar knee-jerk reaction when I see the word "Slut" being used in the casual way so many people do. To me, there are some very specific and hideous connotations to that word-- but the truth is, more people don't care about my worries, they use it in a different way-- and it's a useful word, when used that way

Words don't become irrelevant when layers of meaning are added to them. They become more relevant.

a child neglected by both parents will have a tough time surviving. Even if the organism keeps breathing, it may well be missing a number of higher functions, jettisoned because they take energy that is necessary for basic survival.
Go to any war area, or really dismal slum. You will find lots of human-looking creatures that did not survive as human beings.

Okay, I understand examples do not constitute proof, but look at words like 'talent, or 'project' or 'art' even 'engineer"...the more things that are implied through their meaning the more diluted they become, no? I guess that's what I'm hinting at when I say that the word 'survivor' is heading down the same path.

And the second part: that's a bit of too-dry humour using Pearl Jam lyrics. It was meant to be more of a glib dismissal of the term "emotional abuse" than to be taken literally. My bad.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay, I understand examples do not constitute proof, but look at words like 'talent, or 'project' or 'art' even 'engineer"...the more things that are implied through their meaning the more diluted they become, no? I guess that's what I'm hinting at when I say that the word 'survivor' is heading down the same path.

Well, you can become a language denier, I guess. It hasn't done me any good, but maybe you'll be more successful.

And the second part: that's a bit of too-dry humour using Pearl Jam lyrics. It was meant to be more of a glib dismissal of the term "emotional abuse" than to be taken literally. My bad.

Glib dismissal of emotional pain is not a good way to win friends and influence neighbors. Your bad indeed.

 

[Felix_Jones]

Well, you can become a language denier, I guess. It hasn't done me any good, but maybe you'll be more successful. Glib dismissal of emotional pain is not a good way to win friends and influence neighbors. Your bad indeed.

Really? I have hordes of friends, and we rip each other like crazy. We make drunken song lyrics about people's tragedies.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Really? I have hordes of friends, and we rip each other like crazy. We make drunken song lyrics about people's tragedies.

Which means nothing to anyone except your drunken friends.

 

[FurryFury]

I disagree with you. Regardless of how much your try to make emotional pain sound like it's nothing. I strongly disagree with you.

Please allow me to refer you to my first post on this matter....emotional abuse...I'm not saying that if you had some crazy disease, or a bullet wound you're not deserving of the term. Shit, if some dude is beating you senseless on a regular basis, I think it applies there as well.
But daddy not paying attention to the fact that mommy didn't care does not constitute a level of danger that would imply survival.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Okay, I understand examples do not constitute proof, but look at words like 'talent, or 'project' or 'art' even 'engineer"...the more things that are implied through their meaning the more diluted they become, no? I guess that's what I'm hinting at when I say that the word 'survivor' is heading down the same path.

And the second part: that's a bit of too-dry humour using Pearl Jam lyrics. It was meant to be more of a glib dismissal of the term "emotional abuse" than to be taken literally. My bad.

Just some simple basic research, such as this, touches on many reasons why you are wrong about emotional abuse. Systematically tearing a person apart can cause physical manifestations, such as alcoholism, PTSD, and, in one study, increased gynecological problems for women victims. People who have pulled through the emotional and physical scars of emotional abuse are, in fact, survivors.

Setting aside the fact that emotional abuse can have those physical manifestations, comments pointing out that emotional abuse creates human shells, not humans are absolutely right. Children raised without certain connections simply develop differently and most often not for the better.

What also struck me is that in a community like these boards, where it is generally recognized that we all define things for ourselves, whatever label someone chooses to use for themselves should be acceptable. I think that's the point Minx implicated.

What I went through was not continuous and systematic enough to be called "abuse," which is why I questioned using the word parenthetically because for me it was more manipulation. I don't call myself a "survivor." But I have known others who are survivors of emotional abuse and your lack of realization that emotional abuse really occurs makes me worry about you. In fact, a blindness to the feelings of others is a criterion many emotional abusers exhibit. I don't mean to imply that you are such a person; instead I hope that you can think beyond what the "norm" is for you and your friends and perhaps grow as a human.

 

[minx1]

Systematically tearing a person apart can cause physical manifestations, such as alcoholism, PTSD, and, in one study, increased gynecological problems for women victims. People who have pulled through the emotional and physical scars of emotional abuse are, in fact, survivors.

I suffered both types of abuse (phsyical and emotional) with the one partner, both traumatic and equally detrimental in terms of their effect on my well being and physical and mental health. The physical abuse was terryifying.

But it was reading this Chiara that made me think about my own PTSD which I suffered from much later and didnt come about through any physical abuse, and was instead the end product of the emotional sort.

Out of those two awful periods in my life it was the PTSD that nearly killed me.
I guess If I was ever to consider myself a survivor, it would be when I think of that.

 

[Bandit58]

I love how people who have experienced "emotional abuse" call themselves survivors.

Would you prefer we called ourselves victims?

Until you have lived it (and I lived it for 23 years) you can't know what it feels like. It is real, it affects your whole life both during and afterwards. I am nine years out of that emotionally damaging relationship and it still has some effects on my current relationship. I think it always will. There aren't any physical scars, but the mental ones are just as real.

Signed ME (a SURVIVOR and proud to be one)

 

[unknooown]

As someone who struggled with severe anger and violence issues -- enough so that I was court ordered to see a psychologist twice a month until I turned 25 --, and has a past of being abusive, I can say there are several reasons why people stay with abusive partners.

First let me say that I cannot imagine a man or woman not realizing, or losing control. I mean yes obviously people lose control sometimes but not repeatedly -- because once you deliver those first few blows, or the first string of insults, or the first damaging mindgame, you know you're in new territory.

I guess first first I should say that some people simply do not act out in an abusive way, and some people do. The people that do don't have to, but I think they know deep down that it's in them and I do believe, at least sometimes, that it's a conscious decision to let one's guard down that allows the first episode. Once the first episode is out of the way it's almost easier -- you know you got away with it once, why stop now? You got the results you wanted.

Anyway, the reasons women stayed with me. I have money. I promised them things. I apologized. One girl called me out on not truly being sorry, I shrugged because what could I say, and she still didn't leave me for another few months. Some thought if they didn't misbehave I wouldn't lash out but in reality it rarely ever had to do with them.

At one point, when I was confusing abuse with BDSM (I knew I got off on the latter so I felt it was important for my sexual pleasure to be abusive in my relationships) I would seek out girls that I knew would stay. It's a sick thing to say but there's a type. Obviously these are generalizations but I was most successful with girls that wanted to help me, girls that didn't grow up with a father, girls whose fathers and brothers were controlling (possibly abusive, but I can't say for sure).

I was really troubled for a while, I'm not sure if I can say I'm not anymore because is it something you can outgrow? The label, I mean. I'm confident that it won't happen again. One of my exes told me she would always be a survivor and I would always be an abuser.

Sorry if I haven't made any sense. I'm 6 beers in and running on just a few hours of sleep from last night.

 

[Felix_Jones]

Would you prefer we called ourselves victims?

Until you have lived it (and I lived it for 23 years) you can't know what it feels like. It is real, it affects your whole life both during and afterwards. I am nine years out of that emotionally damaging relationship and it still has some effects on my current relationship. I think it always will. There aren't any physical scars, but the mental ones are just as real.

Signed ME (a SURVIVOR and proud to be one)

Maybe.

I'm probably being pedantic about the definition of the word. Don't you think that you must be living in a garden paradise when survival implies that you've been in a bad relationship? How would you describe living in a place where you're forced into bread lines for your very survival? Where the air and water are poisonous, where the police will beat you to death if you look at them funny, where any hint of trying to improve your lot is met with a column of Russian tanks. I don't describe myself or my family as survivors for having escaped it, to me it's extremist language that begs for sympathy.

 

[Chiara_searches]

Maybe.

I'm probably being pedantic about the definition of the word. Don't you think that you must be living in a garden paradise when survival implies that you've been in a bad relationship? How would you describe living in a place where you're forced into bread lines for your very survival? Where the air and water are poisonous, where the police will beat you to death if you look at them funny, where any hint of trying to improve your lot is met with a column of Russian tanks. I don't describe myself or my family as survivors for having escaped it, to me it's extremist language that begs for sympathy.

Or it's language that seeks recognition so that we can all learn bad stuff (all kinds of bad stuff) happens in this world and we can try to do things to prevent it. The more we talk about things, the more we improve our and others' lots in life. Trying to silence someone by denying them their self-defined identification does nothing to improve things.

Perhaps think of it this way: brown is a color; there are many shades to brown; if you say raw umber and I say chocolate we are still talking brown, just approaching it from different angles, from different life experiences. I mean no offense to anyone by breaking it down to this simple analogy. But it's clear: we've never walked in your shoes; and you haven't walked in the shoes of others who survived emotional abuse. A simple analogy may assist in showing why it is appropriate for people to call themselves survivor.

The word "survivor" is defined as, among other things, one who endures disasters or hardships. Emotional trauma and abuse are hardships. The physical difficulties your people dealt with were a different kind of hardship. Both groups are survivors, for as I use the term, I would include your family in that category. You are free to not call your family survivors. Everyone else who has lived through difficulties is equally free to call themselves survivors.

 

[Felix_Jones]

Or it's language that seeks recognition so that we can all learn bad stuff (all kinds of bad stuff) happens in this world and we can try to do things to prevent it. The more we talk about things, the more we improve our and others' lots in life. Trying to silence someone by denying them their self-defined identification does nothing to improve things.

Perhaps think of it this way: brown is a color; there are many shades to brown; if you say raw umber and I say chocolate we are still talking brown, just approaching it from different angles, from different life experiences. I mean no offense to anyone by breaking it down to this simple analogy. But it's clear: we've never walked in your shoes; and you haven't walked in the shoes of others who survived emotional abuse. A simple analogy may assist in showing why it is appropriate for people to call themselves survivor.

The word "survivor" is defined as, among other things, one who endures disasters or hardships. Emotional trauma and abuse are hardships. The physical difficulties your people dealt with were a different kind of hardship. Both groups are survivors, for as I use the term, I would include your family in that category. You are free to not call your family survivors. Everyone else who has lived through difficulties is equally free to call themselves survivors.

It's a good analogy, and well written in my humble opinion. And I have neither the means nor the desire to silence anyone, like everyone here I'm just spouting opinions. Maybe it's that my definition of disaster and hardships leans toward something more disastrous and hard than emotional abuse.

 

[h_i_s]

Sometimes it is just easier to stay. For 'comfort reasons'... so as not to have to worry about 'rocking the boat', causing the next cycle to come full circle, once again.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It's a good analogy, and well written in my humble opinion. And I have neither the means nor the desire to silence anyone, like everyone here I'm just spouting opinions. Maybe it's that my definition of disaster and hardships leans toward something more disastrous and hard than emotional abuse.

You look at immediate physical outcome. if there are bruises and blood, you can tell, just by looking, that there was danger and damage.

But we are not our bodies alone. People have been known to suicide after enough mental abuse. You would have to admit that they did not survive.

Also, you are spouting opinions right in the faces of people who have shared their suffering-- telling them that they didn't suffer enough.

What I think is that you owe people an apology for that. But that's only my opinion.

 

[Etoile]

You look at immediate physical outcome. if there are bruises and blood, you can tell, just by looking, that there was danger and damage.

But we are not our bodies alone. People have been known to suicide after enough mental abuse. You would have to admit that they did not survive.

Also, you are spouting opinions right in the faces of people who have shared their suffering-- telling them that they didn't suffer enough.

What I think is that you owe people an apology for that. But that's only my opinion.

This.

 

[Curious_in_Cali]

You look at immediate physical outcome. if there are bruises and blood, you can tell, just by looking, that there was danger and damage.

But we are not our bodies alone. People have been known to suicide after enough mental abuse. You would have to admit that they did not survive.

Also, you are spouting opinions right in the faces of people who have shared their suffering-- telling them that they didn't suffer enough.

What I think is that you owe people an apology for that. But that's only my opinion.

Agreed. It would be a very sad day for humanity if our vibrancy and triumphs were only measured in meat and bones.

~You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body. C. S. Lewis~

 

[minx1]

~You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body. C. S. Lewis~

I love that.