You don’t protect my freedom

[possum123]

If people on this forum gave as much thought about their posts as they do all of the extra bullshit they have in their posts this forum would be much better.
Do they think all of the pics, quotes, and other shit makes their dumbass post sound any better?

 

[KingOrfeo]

If people on this forum gave as much thought about their posts as they do all of the extra bullshit they have in their posts this forum would be much better.
Do they think all of the pics, quotes, and other shit makes their dumbass post sound any better?

Sometime they do make it better.

 

[possum123]

Sometime they do make it better.

You are right.
The bullshit stuff usually sounds much better than their post.

 

[PayDay]

Weeellll . . . maybe some form of democratic socialism as distinct from social democracy, but only if we get there by very gradual stages, so we can deal with unintended consequences as they arise; and private enterprise is never eliminated or marginalized entirely; and we're not ideologically locked in to one model of "socialism" but will readily experiment with different ones to see what works best, e.g., nationalization and state planning v. dirigisme v. worker management of autonomous businesses (like in the Spanish Revolution). There should be no "theology of the final goal," i.e., a vision of socialism as something that is to come after capitalism.

For once, I agree with the bold, as anyone is entitled to a political opinion.

...but the bold is the exact opposite of what is happening now. Government has become an endless array of arised problems, mostly due to tax to pay for socialist programs.

...and instead of solving problems, they just keep making more on 'whims of the electorate' with no end in sight.

I think most in this thread would say there is a vast amount of prudent planning missing in government.

For instance, Hilary failed at universal healthcare because it was finacially unsustainable, so non-planners waited until they had a shady enough of a majority to squeeze it through, consequences be damned.

 

[KingOrfeo]

...but the bold is the exact opposite of what is happening now. Government has become an endless array of arised problems, mostly due to tax to pay for socialist programs.

Which programs are "socialist"? Is Medicare "socialist"? Are food stamps "socialist"? Are public schools "socialist"? Is the Interstate Highway System "socialist"? Is the Defense Department "socialist"? Is any tax-funded public service "socialist"?

If so, so much the better for socialism.

...and instead of solving problems, they just keep making more on 'whims of the electorate' with no end in sight.

The "whims of the electorate" have very little to do with policymaking, that's all the work of career pols/bureaucrats/policy analysts. The voters just get presented with a limited menu of choices periodically; to the extent the pols need be concerned about that, they do of course formulate policy with public opinion taken into account, but they are not ruled by it and should not be.

And, what you might call the "Food Stamp Vote" is electorally negligible and always has been (always, in all republics in human history). (The "Social Security & Medicare Vote," not so negligible.)

I think most in this thread would say there is a vast amount of prudent planning missing in government.

So they might, but it ain't necessarily so.

For instance, Hilary failed at universal healthcare because . . .

. . . of "Harry and Louise."

 

[KingOrfeo]

You are right.
The bullshit stuff usually sounds much better than their post.

Sometimes it's not bullshit stuff.

 

[PayDay]

Sometimes it's not bullshit stuff.

Truth. Orf just post dumped his (and others like his) political opinion. I disagree, and I'm not really replying to it, but it's there for reference.

 

[PayDay]

Which programs are "socialist"? Is Medicare "socialist"? Are food stamps "socialist"? Are public schools "socialist"? Is the Interstate Highway System "socialist"? Is the Defense Department "socialist"? Is any tax-funded public service "socialist"?

If so, so much the better for socialism.

Longterm cost. The DoD is under funded. Food stamp fraud accounts for like 1/3 of food stamp spending, Medicare is crushed for the most part thanks to auto over enrollment if you don't qualify for the ACA, Highway systems are funded by fuel and vice taxes and are going broke due to poor planning.

ACA costs are unsustainable. You're mixing municiple and state responsibilities with Federal Government.

The "whims of the electorate" have very little to do with policymaking, that's all the work of career pols/bureaucrats/policy analysts. The voters just get presented with a limited menu of choices periodically; to the extent the pols need be concerned about that, they do of course formulate policy with public opinion taken into account, but they are not ruled by it and should not be.

Then you don't know, in my opinion, what you are looking at. The democrats named it their 'election program'I dunno what the republicans call their's.

And, what you might call the "Food Stamp Vote" is electorally negligible and always has been (always, in all republics in human history). (The "Social Security & Medicare Vote," not so negligible.)

I would never disparage the value of any legal and legit vote, nor would I label it, you have me all wrong.

So they might, but it ain't necessarily so.

. . . of "Harry and Louise."

I dunno what this means---^

 

[BotanyBoy]

Longterm cost. The DoD is under funded. Food stamp fraud accounts for like 1/3 of food stamp spending, Medicare is crushed for the most part thanks to auto over enrollment if you don't qualify for the ACA, Highway systems are funded by fuel and vice taxes and are going broke due to poor planning.

I know, CUT TAXES!!!.....but only for the ultra rich who need tax breaks the least.....

RIGHT???

That's how republicans take care of bills and responsibilities.....cut taxes = answer for everything and de-regulation is the cure-all silver bullet to their problems.

 

[possum123]

I know, CUT TAXES!!!.....but only for the ultra rich who need tax breaks the least.....

RIGHT???

That's how republicans take care of bills and responsibilities.....cut taxes = answer for everything and de-regulation is the cure-all silver bullet to their problems.

How about we cut all pay and expenses for politicians until they balance the budget?

 

[oggbashan]

How about we cut all pay and expenses for politicians until they balance the budget?

I would like that for the EU, including all administrators, until they produce audited accounts for the last decade.

Then FIFA...

 

[PayDay]

I know, CUT TAXES!!!.....but only for the ultra rich who need tax breaks the least.....

RIGHT???

That's how republicans take care of bills and responsibilities.....cut taxes = answer for everything and de-regulation is the cure-all silver bullet to their problems.

What? I was referencing the DoD being one of the few government agencies that ALWAYS follows the cost cutting reccomendations of the GAO.

I dunno wtf you are talking about.

 

[PayDay]

I would like that for the EU, including all administrators, until they produce audited accounts for the last decade.

Then FIFA...

The EU looks like a can of worms to me right now.

It is voluntary, right? I mean any country could just walk and do self solvency (basically) anytime? Is there consequences to anything but the EU for doing that?

 

[PayDay]

How about we cut all pay and expenses for politicians until they balance the budget?

Totally possible. All someone has to do is write an amendment that "politicians cannot be paid" and get it sponsored. It would also have to repeal the 27th amendment, maybe...

 

[BotanyBoy]

How about we cut all pay and expenses for politicians until they balance the budget?

Yep...admin too. It would be a clear cut "You're not doing your job...no money till you do, if we don't get results soon everyone is going to be SO fired." move....but that would never happen.

Take away these pigs gravy and they are likely to start air strikes against American neighborhoods....

What? I was referencing the DoD being one of the few government agencies that ALWAYS follows the cost cutting reccomendations of the GAO.

I dunno wtf you are talking about.

I am mocking the RW'ing and their problem solving....."NO MONEY? We'll fix that, cut rich people a break...IT'S THE ONLY WAY!!" LOL

And from a monetary standpoint the DoD is still a the most over bloated albatross of a military that has EVER EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.......ALL FUCKING TIME BRO!!

"The DoD is underfunded" LMFAO!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA

 

[oggbashan]

The EU looks like a can of worms to me right now.

It is voluntary, right? I mean any country could just walk and do self solvency (basically) anytime? Is there consequences to anything but the EU for doing that?

The EU is held together by treaties. Internal trade between EU countries is significant, and that is why the EU started as a free trade zone. The Eurozone - the EU countries using the Euro as their currency - complicates matters because countries have to coordinate their monetary policies.

If any country leaves the EU, it would probably have a negative impact on their trade. For some that could tip the balance between a slight improvement in their economy and a full blown recession. For Eurozone countries it would mean re-establishing a National currency that might be damaged by currency traders' doubts.

There is a lot that is good about the EU, and a few things that are not-so-good or even bad. The bureaucracy and regulation are sometimes draconian. Individual countries' responses to EU directives vary. The UK, Germany and the other Northern European countries tend to implement every directive. France's government says it will, but in practice French institutions and businesses ignore any directive they don't like until they are caught out, and then implement the mininum. Southern European countries tend not to notice any EU directives.

If the UK were to leave, the impact on the rest of the EU might be greater than on the UK. Germany would become the overly dominant EU nation and be even more unpopular with other EU countries than they are now. They would also have to provide much more money to prop up Eurozone countries and the EU generally because the UK is a major funder of the EU.

The reason that the EU accounts aren't audited? Because some EU countries don't want to admit that they have misspent or misappropriated EU funds. Those countries don't give the EU the financial information necessary to make the books auditable.

 

[possum123]

And from a monetary standpoint the DoD is still a the most over bloated albatross of a military that has EVER EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.......ALL FUCKING TIME BRO!!

"The DoD is underfunded" LMFAO!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA

All a person has to do is work at any place that builds war toys and they will quickly learn how over funded the DoD is. If not they should be fired for stupidity.

For each war ship built there is enough waste to build 10 more exactly like it without paying a single cent more.

 

[PayDay]

I am mocking the RW'ing and their problem solving....."NO MONEY? We'll fix that, cut rich people a break...IT'S THE ONLY WAY!!" LOL

And from a monetary standpoint the DoD is still a the most over bloated albatross of a military that has EVER EXISTED IN THE HISTORY OF EVER.......ALL FUCKING TIME BRO!!

"The DoD is underfunded" LMFAO!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA HAHAHAHAHA

Partisan has warped your mind.

 

[PayDay]

The EU is held together by treaties. Internal trade between EU countries is significant, and that is why the EU started as a free trade zone. The Eurozone - the EU countries using the Euro as their currency - complicates matters because countries have to coordinate their monetary policies.

If any country leaves the EU, it would probably have a negative impact on their trade. For some that could tip the balance between a slight improvement in their economy and a full blown recession. For Eurozone countries it would mean re-establishing a National currency that might be damaged by currency traders' doubts.

There is a lot that is good about the EU, and a few things that are not-so-good or even bad. The bureaucracy and regulation are sometimes draconian. Individual countries' responses to EU directives vary. The UK, Germany and the other Northern European countries tend to implement every directive. France's government says it will, but in practice French institutions and businesses ignore any directive they don't like until they are caught out, and then implement the mininum. Southern European countries tend not to notice any EU directives.

If the UK were to leave, the impact on the rest of the EU might be greater than on the UK. Germany would become the overly dominant EU nation and be even more unpopular with other EU countries than they are now. They would also have to provide much more money to prop up Eurozone countries and the EU generally because the UK is a major funder of the EU.

The reason that the EU accounts aren't audited? Because some EU countries don't want to admit that they have misspent or misappropriated EU funds. Those countries don't give the EU the financial information necessary to make the books auditable.

Excellent info, thanks for the civility

 

[domroger]

I would like that for the EU, including all administrators, until they produce audited accounts for the last decade.

Then FIFA...

FIFA first .

 

[BotanyBoy]

All a person has to do is work at any place that builds war toys and they will quickly learn how over funded the DoD is. If not they should be fired for stupidity.

For each war ship built there is enough waste to build 10 more exactly like it without paying a single cent more.

Or be in the military....plenty of pissing money down the drain for shitz n giggles (to get someone rich) on that end too.

That's not to say there isn't grand waste in a bunch of other gubbmint programs too....our HC system? Omg we are getting SUPER ULTRA RIPPED THE FUCK OFF!! Because D v R bickering and derp.

2.7 Times what MSRP UHC would cost and we aren't even getting it that good....for what we pay we should have the most KICK ASS STATE OF THE ART UHC EVER....and still have enough left over to run an entire fleet of F22's and super subs.

But that isn't good enough for libs...nope...we just aren't spending enough!!

R= cut taxes to pay bills derp...

D= throw good money after bad derp...

Partisan has warped your mind.

Says the guy claiming the DoD is underfunded LOL

 

[oggbashan]

FIFA first .

That would be good, but very unlikely.

 

[PayDay]

Says the guy claiming the DoD is underfunded LOL

You don't know what you are looking at.

 

[possum123]

Or be in the military....plenty of pissing money down the drain for shitz n giggles (to get someone rich) on that end too.

That's not to say there isn't grand waste in a bunch of other gubbmint programs too....our HC system? Omg we are getting SUPER ULTRA RIPPED THE FUCK OFF!! Because D v R bickering and derp.

2.7 Times what MSRP UHC would cost and we aren't even getting it that good....for what we pay we should have the most KICK ASS STATE OF THE ART UHC EVER....and still have enough left over to run an entire fleet of F22's and super subs.

But that isn't good enough for libs...nope...we just aren't spending enough!!

R= cut taxes to pay bills derp...

D= throw good money after bad derp...



Says the guy claiming the DoD is underfunded LOL

When I worked for the Corps of Engrs. we used to dig big holes every 4 years to put all of the things we had bought the 4 years before so we could buy more in the next 4 years. Then it was time to dig some more big holes.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You don't know what you are looking at.

Then educate me and tell me how the most well funded military entity (The US DOD) that has ever existed in the entire recorded history of our species......is underfunded.

Tell me how this branch of our government, which has a bigger annual budget than most of the planet COMBINED, is underfunded....I gotta hear this.

When I worked for the Corps of Engrs. we used to dig big holes every 4 years to put all of the things we had bought the 4 years before so we could buy more in the next 4 years. Then it was time to dig some more big holes.

I'm not even getting into what I saw in my 4 1/2 years in Iraq....but it was mother fuckin' heart breaking and continues to be so, I have no doubt.