Your political leanings.....

[A Desert Rose]

I don;t think I said that. All I said is that conservative tend to be less open-minded about things like gay marriage or alternative sexual lifestyles... to be honest, I think gay marriage is pretty silly myself, especially when the law grants equal rights to partnership contracts, but that's beside the point... I know I shouldn;t paint views in black and white, but when it comes to politics, it's about choosing general directions... that may be somewhat black and white...



My point is that conservative, at least in my country, tends to meddle with that individual liberty by imposing THEIR values on the society as a whole.
But to be honest, I don;t really understand what you mean by 'politically, fiscally and socially conservative'...

BTW, I am not trying to attack you on your views, it's just that I sometimes get a little over-excited about politics... and I don;t mean that in a fetish kind-of-way...


Wolf

And I am not trying to pick a fight with you either. I never said you called conservatives homophobes or bigots.... I never attributed those words to you. They are mine. But when you say that your take on conservatives is that they are less tolerant of alternative lifestyles, I took that to the next step and I used those words.

The bottom line is that conservatives believe in as little government intervention in the individual's life and life style choices as possible and that is what I believe in, too. The individual is supreme... and deserves to live his life as he finds the way that best suits him. And again, these are my words and my opinion alone. Other conservatives may have other definitions, just as not all people who claim to be liberal, all believe the same way either.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Ah, that is what I was getting at.



However, I believe there was a time when you could identify yourself with political party and that said something about yourself. Politics has evolved to a game of who owes whom a favor and how do I promote myself even further that it doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Party lines seem grey and politicians dont' seem to mirror the beliefs and values of their consituents unless there is personal gain for them. Being a poltician is a job, after all and I suppose those in office want to excel within that position for personal gain.

Have to agree with you, and I don't think it is exclusively a US phenomena. For the majority, even those who become involved in politics for all the right reasons, there seems to be a quickening to the corruption level, and a forgetting why they became involved and what it is our democratic system is suppposed to really do. From what I have seen in the US, Australia, and the UK, the parties vary little to each other, grease each others palms, and glory in the public image they imagine promotes them as saints and matyrs. Few are willing to stick to their principles, often because party pressure and the corruption of power and money cuts through their weak resolve very quickly....a few opt for the independent ticket at the risk of losing their position. It has become a profession rather than a vocation or public service.

Catalina

 

[catalina_francisco]

I still don;t understand why the majority of votes in this poll is conservative...

Perhaps there is some confusion about the word. To some, conservative may imply 'leaving things the way they are, let it be etc...' I don;t know exactly about the US, but in my country conservative is exactly the opposite... it means a strong emphasis on religion, family values, tradition etc. with little or no room for alternative lifestyles...
Under a conservative government we would never have had such 'liberal' achievements as abortion, gay marriage etc.... all these are reflections of sexual liberty, IMO... BDSM has never been a political topic, as far as I know, but the general acceptance of this lifestyle would be a lot easier under liberal, progressive politics...

I am sure there are very kinky and open-minded people even within the conservative movement, but in general they would have a lot of difficulties to come out for their sexual preferences...

Wolf

Same understanding of conservative in Australia. They infiltrate every facet of the citizen's lives and sadly most have become so used to it they no longer realise how much control and eye over everyone's life the conservative governments have. For instance, in Australia under conservative rule, if my mother deposits money into my bank acount she is asked by bank staff for reporting to the government why she is depositing it in my account and what it is for, and told she may be contacted further about it if necessary. Remember here, neither of us has been in trouble with the law, not even a speeding or parking fine, and she is a very frail elderly lady. That to me is not keeping out of people's lives and letting them live in peace. It not only goes against most of what I believe in, but seems accompanied by the hypocratic style of 'Do as I say, not as I do in secret and hope never gets discovered.' Seems to me a driving force of conservatism, at least in Oz is let's go back to the good old days...definately not progressive in thought or action.

Catalina

 

[phoenix1224]

I think many of you are confusing the word 'conservative' with the term 'right wing'... Right wingers, just like left wingers, want too much control over our lives... just in different ways...

Right wingers typically believe a person should be completely subserviant to the government... never questioning what they do or say... They're the ones who try to meddle in people's private lives... Noising in on our sex lives, questioning our religious beliefs because they don't coincide with theirs, or trying to quash what we have to say because they don't like it...

While the left wingers on the other hand, typically believe that the role of government is to act as babysitters... Making it law to wear setbelts in our cars, or helmets on motorcycles, etc... They would love nothing more than to tax the hell out of us to fund every social program under the sun...many of which would be better suited to be funded and run by charitable organizations...

Right wingers would love to take away our First Amendment rights, while left wingers would love to take away our Second Amendment rights... They're both extremists... just on opposite ends of the political spectrum...

Conservatives on the other hand, while believing in traditional values (and what's wrong with traditional values anyway?), believe in pulling in the reins of government (hence the term 'conserv'ative)... Less taxes, smaller government involvment in our private lives, less government spending, etc. are all goals of conservatives...

 

[Netzach]

For instance, I do believe in strong family values, but that does not mean that everyone has to share MY idea of family values. Everyone is entitled to work their lives in the best way possible for themselves. Neither do I express or force my religious views to or on others, at Lit or anywhere else. We are all entitled to worship or not, as we so choose.

What I really am trying to say is that the greatest thing is the freedom of the INIVIDUAL to determine his own life and his own way of living it, unfettered by government dictates or societal ones. I believe in as little government involvement in my life (especially in my bedroom) as possible. And that is a large part of what makes me a conservative.

Thank you Wolf, for letting me ramble. I hope I made some kind of sense. ;-)

I wish most people who I would identify as conservative, and who I've seen identify themselves as conservative held the same viewpoints you do re: 'taint nobody's bizness if I do. That would rock!

What I often see being "conserved" is not this idea of personal liberty, but a reactionary, fantasy of what "America Should be" thst doesn't include recent immigrants, poor people, single mothers, people who work for a living from paycheck to paycheck, and anyone who isn't white, only we don't say that because it isn't polite anymore. Gays should not live in our counties. Christian values are "our" values. And everyone should simply agree with that if they don't want to be censored or censured.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Christian values are "our" values. And everyone should simply agree with that if they don't want to be censored or censured.

LOL, this reminds me of when I went for my divorce many years ago and had to sign legal documents and then place my hand on the Bible brought out from under the counter and swear all was true. In my usual way, I could not resist asking how that was going to prove I had told the truth. The clerk was stunned and answered it was true because I would swear on the Bible it was so. She couldn't deal with my asking how that worked if I had no belief in the Christian faith and/or the Bible. It threatened her safety zone of believing the hand on said book for swearing meant all was OK in the world.

Catalina

 

[RainingDeath0105]

As for my leanings, I have been a republican. Note the have been. I am having real issues with the way the current US administration is handling the country.

(Mah Second Post! Woo!)

Hey, dont feel bad; Bush is a rather crappy republican. He is left leaning in his politics, and right leaning in his morals. He is perhaps the worst republican president we have seen, because he really isnt acting all that.. republican.


Myself, I am an eco-freak . I believe in a strong military (somthing many green party members disagree with me on) and nuclear power (yet again, something many green party members disagree with me on ). We need a smaller government. We need stronger government control on corporations; especially corporations with overseas manufacturing plants.

*Grin*

 

[scooterbum]

sittin'

I am a total fence-sitting moderate.

i know a face-sitting moderate

 

[MissTaken]

Re: sittin'

i know a face-sitting moderate

Awwww YOU are so Bad, darlin!

 

[shyly curious]

I live in the U.S.A.
I am fiscally conservative.
I am pro-enviroment.
I am moderately socially liberal.
I am ex-serviceman.
I am homeowner.
I live in a rural small town.
I vote. EVERYTIME!!!
I am divorced.
I am baby boomer.
I am a motorcyclist.
I enjoy the outdoors, alot!!!
I am a craftsman / technician.
I am employed.
I do not hunt.
I do not believe in all gun laws.
I do not believe in all welfare programs.
I believe in self-determination.
I believe in being responsible for one's actions and words.

I cannot fit myself into just one catagory.

I vote for the person and the logic of their views.

The "system" sucks for how we get the candidates to chose from on election day.

The higher the office the worse the system sucks.

Small town politics may be silly at times, but there is real accountability for the official when he/she has to face the citizens at the local gas station or store.

And EVERYONE knows where they live.

Too bad the higher level officials do not face the same level of interaction with the citizens they represent.


be well all, shy

 

[catalina_francisco]

Interesting quote I came across:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was
no one left to speak out for me."

Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945


Catalina

 

[shyly curious]

... bump ...

 

[wolf2002]

A little off topic, but I'd really like to know...

I am trying to follow the 9/11 hearings on CNN, and they keep talking about the 'partisan vote'... could somebody explain this stupid Dutchman what that means?

Wolf

 

[shyly curious]

A little off topic, but I'd really like to know...

I am trying to follow the 9/11 hearings on CNN, and they keep talking about the 'partisan vote'... could somebody explain this stupid Dutchman what that means?

Wolf

well i will try to explain,

we have two basic political parties, the democrats, and the republicans.

in very simple terms,

when all the members of one party vote together, because they want to embarrass or thwart the other party, it is partisan.

when voting as a group, not because the issue or subject has merit, but to gain political power or leverage, it is partisan.

did that make sense?

be well, shy

 

[wolf2002]

did that make sense?

Perfect! Thanks for clearing that up, shy... I was confused cause 'partisan' also means something like 'freedom warrior'... now I understand the discussion...

Wolf

 

[dreaming_lilith]

Interesting quote I came across:

"First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was
no one left to speak out for me."

Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945


Catalina

I love that one. It is soooo hiting the nail on the head...

 

[catalina_francisco]

For all political dance lovers out there.

http://www.dancingbush.com/

Francisco.