misogynists and misogyny

glBock

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Since so many people, most of them women, claim a lot of men to be misogynists, I figured it might be a good idea to try giving that subject some rational treatment here.

At first, I meant to claim being a proud misogynist towards certain women, but now that I learned the correct definition of that term for the first time, I retract and say it differently: I am proud to despise a certain category of women. Those women, who deserve it. And there are plenty of those around, as I found out by experience.

Fortunately I am not alone with my assessment; on one of my earliest threads here, at least one woman vehemently agreed with me, regarding the sheer exploitation some women here practice. And I have come to know quite a few women, who cannot stand feminists either. Nor most of the baloney associated with that #MeToo movement.

I wrote this several times earlier already, and I don't mind writing it again: IMHO what started out in the 1960s as a highly positive idea and concept, called "women's liberation" then (a bit of a misnomer, unfortunately), has morphed into feminism with time; an attitude I find most contemptible.

The only thing I saw wrong with "women's liberation" then was limiting the liberalization aim to women only. IMHO, men deserved to be liberated just as well, from role models that made no sense, and which were counter-productive to love and meaningful and satisfying relationships.

I still believe today that – had men and women fully embraced gender liberation – the silliness of feminism would never have developed.

One rational book I know deals with many aberrations with feminism; it was written by a woman, in fact a medical doctor. Who drew a lot of flak for writing it starting in 1971. The author is Esther Vilar, and the full text of the book can be found here (of the 1998 edition): http://www.naturalthinker.net/trl/texts/Vilar,Esther/The_manipulated_man.pdf

Esther's claim is the opposite of what feminists claim: in modern "civilized" societies, women call the shots and dominate men, up to enslaving them, in those relationships where domination plays a role. She also has an explanation for why so many men support feminism: because it is the only ideology on earth, which believes in male roles that macho men would like to think they are able to occupy.

Vilar's book explains many of the phenomena we can observe here on Lit. All examples for instance, of women assuming privileges for themselves, which go well beyond what men can rely on. In my experience, the women here, who do not rely on feminine privileges, are very rare. I was fortunate to meet some of them, and I appreciate my luck wholeheartedly.

In my experience the main difference between women, who are at heart "Esther Vilar-type" women, and what I call real women, is the amount of sex drive the two different kind possess. Real women need sex as much as men, so the idea of monetizing their pussies never enters their minds.

That is the heart of the problem, I find. Whether a woman grew up thinking of sex as a pleasure and desirable, or whether she listened to mom's advice, or her parents' advice, to use and deploy her sexuality for gainful returns.
 
Is this a personal? Seems like playground material to me.

Do you feel in charge of classifying posts posted here?

Instead of trying to contribute something to a conversation on the subject I raised? I see the term "misogynist" used so many times on the Personals forum, mostly in forms of accusations, that my sense was: "it may pay to look into it more deeply"
 
"Chivalry is dead... and women killed it."

-Dave Chapelle

It could well be, Chris.

On the other hand, if you look at the "dedication" section of Esther Vilar's book (Right up front), you see that she dedicated her book not only to you and me, but also to a few women. And those women would not mind a bit of chivalry, I am ceratin.
 
Since so many people, most of them women, claim a lot of men to be misogynists, I figured it might be a good idea to try giving that subject some rational treatment here.

At first, I meant to claim being a proud misogynist towards certain women, but now that I learned the correct definition of that term for the first time, I retract and say it differently: I am proud to despise a certain category of women. Those women, who deserve it. And there are plenty of those around, as I found out by experience.

Fortunately I am not alone with my assessment; on one of my earliest threads here, at least one woman vehemently agreed with me, regarding the sheer exploitation some women here practice. And I have come to know quite a few women, who cannot stand feminists either. Nor most of the baloney associated with that #MeToo movement.

I wrote this several times earlier already, and I don't mind writing it again: IMHO what started out in the 1960s as a highly positive idea and concept, called "women's liberation" then (a bit of a misnomer, unfortunately), has morphed into feminism with time; an attitude I find most contemptible.

The only thing I saw wrong with "women's liberation" then was limiting the liberalization aim to women only. IMHO, men deserved to be liberated just as well, from role models that made no sense, and which were counter-productive to love and meaningful and satisfying relationships.

I still believe today that – had men and women fully embraced gender liberation – the silliness of feminism would never have developed.

One rational book I know deals with many aberrations with feminism; it was written by a woman, in fact a medical doctor. Who drew a lot of flak for writing it starting in 1971. The author is Esther Vilar, and the full text of the book can be found here (of the 1998 edition): http://www.naturalthinker.net/trl/texts/Vilar,Esther/The_manipulated_man.pdf

Esther's claim is the opposite of what feminists claim: in modern "civilized" societies, women call the shots and dominate men, up to enslaving them, in those relationships where domination plays a role. She also has an explanation for why so many men support feminism: because it is the only ideology on earth, which believes in male roles that macho men would like to think they are able to occupy.

Vilar's book explains many of the phenomena we can observe here on Lit. All examples for instance, of women assuming privileges for themselves, which go well beyond what men can rely on. In my experience, the women here, who do not rely on feminine privileges, are very rare. I was fortunate to meet some of them, and I appreciate my luck wholeheartedly.

In my experience the main difference between women, who are at heart "Esther Vilar-type" women, and what I call real women, is the amount of sex drive the two different kind possess. Real women need sex as much as men, so the idea of monetizing their pussies never enters their minds.

That is the heart of the problem, I find. Whether a woman grew up thinking of sex as a pleasure and desirable, or whether she listened to mom's advice, or her parents' advice, to use and deploy her sexuality for gainful returns.

God forbid women would want any of the things feminism has fought for ... you know, like voting. Or reproductive rights. Or sexual agency. Or equal pay ... etc etc. Clearly we're just meant to be here to gratify your desire for someone with a sex drive commensurate to your own. How silly of us.
 
Blah, blah, blah. Who cares what you think? And why is this in the personals? I do have a dislike for people who lump others into a certain category. I don't like labels. That being said... There is a definition of a misogynist.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/misogynist

It's a person who hates, dislikes, mistrusts or mistreats women. Your posts come across very much like that.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck.

I do not think all men or even most men are like that. A few probably are. I do know men and women who seem to think that men are superior. These people are around my parent's age. Not all people of that age do think that. Has to do with the way they were raised. And some people are very stubborn, set in their ways, or whatever. That makes no never mind to me either. They don't rule my world. They're off in their own world and don't have much longer on this earth.

Me? I rule my own world.
 
God forbid women would want any of the things feminism has fought for ... you know, like voting. Or reproductive rights. Or sexual agency. Or equal pay ... etc etc. Clearly we're just meant to be here to gratify your desire for someone with a sex drive commensurate to your own. How silly of us.

Kim, I did not really expect you to understand my post. Feminists in my view, have acquired a view of the world, which differs from reality, And once you lose reality, you are stuck with whatever crap your ideology demands of you.

Have you never bothered to read (and understand) my applauding comments on what was called (falsely) "Women's Liberation"? Of Course not, because you feminists have dealt gender liberation a fatal blow. All in the interest of touting this #MeToo aberation and oher bullshit.

I am glad that a sufficient number of real women exist, it makes them all the more precious, now that some have drifted into feminism.
 
Kim, I did not really expect you to understand my post. Feminists in my view, have acquired a view of the world, which differs from reality, And once you lose reality, you are stuck with whatever crap your ideology demands of you.

Have you never bothered to read (and understand) my applauding comments on what was called (falsely) "Women's Liberation"? Of Course not, because you feminists have dealt gender liberation a fatal blow. All in the interest of touting this #MeToo aberation and oher bullshit.

I am glad that a sufficient number of real women exist, it makes them all the more precious, now that some have drifted into feminism.

If you actually read anything other than stuff that confirms what you already think (like, even the Wiki entry on feminism), you'd understand that 'you feminists' are actually a hugely diverse range of people who have a wide range of understandings of what feminism 'is' (although pretty much all would agree with the things I listed previously).

I have no idea what you think feminism 'is'. I don't understand how anyone can be opposed to a movement that seeks to make sexual assault and harassment visible, and thus hopefully prevent (or at least lessen) it - this seems very far from 'bullshit' to me.
If men needed liberating, they were perfectly welcome to sort that out themselves. I don't see why men's liberation should be the job of a movement that was clearly based around women's liberation.

Your definition of 'real women' seems to be solely based around their sex drive. I'm all for sex - I probably have way more of it that you imagine - but I don't think that makes me a 'real woman'. I don't even know if such a thing could exist.
 
……….

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's usually a duck.
…..

You may not be old enogh, Jada, to know who became famous for using this aphorism, and for wreaking havoc on the country you are a citizen of.

I'll share an almost-secret with you: it was the junior senator from Wisconsin, Joseph McCarty. Whose brain eventually ended up drenched with alcohol, after he had imparted his own kind of stamp on your society

And McCarthy-ism apparently never dies completely.
 
Kim, I did not really expect you to understand my post. Feminists in my view, have acquired a view of the world, which differs from reality, And once you lose reality, you are stuck with whatever crap your ideology demands of you.

Have you never bothered to read (and understand) my applauding comments on what was called (falsely) "Women's Liberation"? Of Course not, because you feminists have dealt gender liberation a fatal blow. All in the interest of touting this #MeToo aberation and oher bullshit.

I am glad that a sufficient number of real women exist, it makes them all the more precious, now that some have drifted into feminism.


I'm not Kim but it's very difficult to read your rambling posts. Most of the time if you do have a point, you seem to fail to make it. And again... Who really cares what you think? It's just your opinion.
 
You may not be old enogh, Jada, to know who became famous for using this aphorism, and for wreaking havoc on the country you are a citizen of.

I'll share an almost-secret with you: it was the junior senator from Wisconsin, Joseph McCarty. Whose brain eventually ended up drenched with alcohol, after he had imparted his own kind of stamp on your society

And McCarthy-ism apparently never dies completely.


Way to use obscure words there, Bock! I was born in 1959 and I am well aware who he was. What does that have to do with anything in today's world? And why are *you* so concerned what goes on in *this* society? You don't even live in this country.

Again, if you had a point, you failed to make it.
 
Way to use obscure words there, Bock! I was born in 1959 and I am well aware who he was. What does that have to do with anything in today's world? And why are *you* so concerned what goes on in *this* society? You don't even live in this country.

Again, if you had a point, you failed to make it.

I think his point is 'look at how clever I am to know who originally said that'.
 
If you actually read anything other than stuff that confirms what you already think (like, even the Wiki entry on feminism), you'd understand that 'you feminists' are actually a hugely diverse range of people who have a wide range of understandings of what feminism 'is' (although pretty much all would agree with the things I listed previously).

I have no idea what you think feminism 'is'. I don't understand how anyone can be opposed to a movement that seeks to make sexual assault and harassment visible, and thus hopefully prevent (or at least lessen) it - this seems very far from 'bullshit' to me.
If men needed liberating, they were perfectly welcome to sort that out themselves. I don't see why men's liberation should be the job of a movement that was clearly based around women's liberation.

Your definition of 'real women' seems to be solely based around their sex drive. I'm all for sex - I probably have way more of it that you imagine - but I don't think that makes me a 'real woman'. I don't even know if such a thing could exist.

Kim, I like many other people, sometimes tend to overdo it with my words. Of course I realize the few positive items achieved over the last five or so centuries. Not exclusively via feminism, BTW.

And I am also aware of how stupid it is, to claim a universal definition of a "real woman" . I am even Ready to admit that your Kind of femisnm may include an embracing of inter-gender sex.

But I still maintain that you are unprepared to recognize how resonable people in the world view feminism; quite differenly from you own convictions.
 
Kim, I like many other people, sometimes tend to overdo it with my words. Of course I realize the few positive items achieved over the last five or so centuries. Not exclusively via feminism, BTW.

And I am also aware of how stupid it is, to claim a universal definition of a "real woman" . I am even Ready to admit that your Kind of femisnm may include an embracing of inter-gender sex.

But I still maintain that you are unprepared to recognize how resonable people in the world view feminism; quite differenly from you own convictions.

A lot of 'reasonable people' who have a negative view of feminism are, in fact, doing feminism. They just don't realise it.

I have absolutely no idea what "your Kind of femisnm may include an embracing of inter-gender sex" actually means - are you saying that feminists can be heterosexual? Really? :rolleyes: You could just say 'heterosexual', instead of 'inter-gender sex', which is one of the clumsiest phrasings I've seen in a while (and that's saying something).
Also, I wasn't actually referring to sexual orientation.
 
Way to use obscure words there, Bock! I was born in 1959 and I am well aware who he was. What does that have to do with anything in today's world? And why are *you* so concerned what goes on in *this* society? You don't even live in this country.

Again, if you had a point, you failed to make it.

Explaing all that to you, Jada, would be a task well beyond my capabilites. Because it is not my Impression that you are willing to learn much. In case you care to understand what this has to do with today's world, I recommend reading some papers and magazines. Written by so-called "enemies of the people", according to a shihead in DC.
 
A lot of 'reasonable people' who have a negative view of feminism are, in fact, doing feminism. They just don't realise it.

I have absolutely no idea what "your Kind of femisnm may include an embracing of inter-gender sex" actually means - are you saying that feminists can be heterosexual? Really? :rolleyes: You could just say 'heterosexual', instead of 'inter-gender sex', which is one of the clumsiest phrasings I've seen in a while (and that's saying something).
Also, I wasn't actually referring to sexual orientation.

I am glad You'll be able to remember me for my "clumsiest phrasings", Kim. I wonder about YOUR abiity to come up with elegant phrases continually in language you learned only later in life.
 
Explaing all that to you, Jada, would be a task well beyond my capabilites. Because it is not my Impression that you are willing to learn much. In case you care to understand what this has to do with today's world, I recommend reading some papers and magazines. Written by so-called "enemies of the people", according to a shihead in DC.

Ha! I don't want you and your tortured prose to explain anything to me. Nor do I care what you think of me or what you think I know or don't know. What I do know is that *I* live in the Seattle area and our politicians are about as fucked up as they come. Meaning those in the Seattle area.

I really don't care to discuss politics though. I am not one who buys into the mainstream media. That's probably over your head. I'll just leave it at that.
 
I am glad You'll be able to remember me for my "clumsiest phrasings", Kim. I wonder about YOUR abiity to come up with elegant phrases continually in language you learned only later in life.

Isn't there a thread for Germans here? Perhaps you should stick to that. What you write does not translate well to English.
 
I am glad You'll be able to remember me for my "clumsiest phrasings", Kim. I wonder about YOUR abiity to come up with elegant phrases continually in language you learned only later in life.

There's a whole word - 'heterosexual' - that means what you were trying to say so I couldn't understand why you didn't just use it ... you'll need to forgive me if I just assumed you were trying to sound clever, given that lording your intelligence over everyone else on the boards is your standard practice.

You've also managed to deflect in respect to almost every single point I've made. I suspect you don't really want to 'discuss' the ideas in your original post at all.
 
There's a whole word - 'heterosexual' - that means what you were trying to say so I couldn't understand why you didn't just use it ... you'll need to forgive me if I just assumed you were trying to sound clever, given that lording your intelligence over everyone else on the boards is your standard practice.

You've also managed to deflect in respect to almost every single point I've made. I suspect you don't really want to 'discuss' the ideas in your original post at all.

If you really wanted to discuss the thoughts I have put on the table, you'd have to take them one by one and state, why and how your opinion differs. In rational and not polemic terms.

So far we only argued (and not constructively) About feminism, but my post contained a lot more food for thought, I believe.
 
If you really wanted to discuss the thoughts I have put on the table, you'd have to take them one by one and state, why and how your opinion differs. In rational and not polemic terms.

So far we only argued (and not constructively) About feminism, but my post contained a lot more food for thought, I believe.

Another obscure word and you just summed it up. It's all about what you believe. Why don't you just keep on believing that and leave the rest of us out of it? Nobody here or anywhere else is going to change your mind.

I just see this as trolling and a very lame attempt at that. You're a Johnny One Note. You keep harping about the same things and changing the wording around a bit. Get out and live a little!
 
If you really wanted to discuss the thoughts I have put on the table, you'd have to take them one by one and state, why and how your opinion differs. In rational and not polemic terms.

So far we only argued (and not constructively) About feminism, but my post contained a lot more food for thought, I believe.

Your points seems to be ...
- you don't hate all women at all, but you're not fond of feminists. I'm not going to argue with that (although I'm dubious about the idea that you actually like any women ... but I don't have actual evidence to support that, so I wouldn't state it as fact).
- feminism sucks. I think it's clear that I feel that, as a loose collection of approaches to a central problem, that's not the case. So that's just your opinion. I think based on a misunderstanding of the central aims of feminism, and of it's wide diversity.
- 'real women' aren't feminists. 'Real women' enjoy sex. You seem to imply that feminists don't enjoy (hetero)sex (although that's not an inevitable outcome of your logic - just what I think you are implying). There's no real evidence to support that claim - there's no standardised definition of 'real women', and feminists do enjoy sex, of all sorts. (I myself enjoy a lot of sex that, from the outside, probably seems not very feminist at all.)
 
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