4 poems not doing so well....

[SEVERUSMAX]

....is it just the content? It tends to be controversial.

 

[Liar]

....is it just the content? It tends to be controversial.

Um... what poems?

Links, perchance?

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

Um... what poems?

Links, perchance?

In my sig

 

[Liar]

In my sig

Ah. Got it.



Ok, so they get low ratings?

Here are some things that may be a reason for that, that I can see:

1. They don't look like poems use to look, which might confuse readers. For instance your "20 Wasted Minutes" is a fairly regular rhyming couplet. But you have no line breaks. If it was formatted like this is would look more like readers expecrt a rhymed poem to look like:

These 20 wasted minutes, waiting for a date,
make me think that I should, like Franklin, charge for my time a rate.
It's rude and inconsiderate for you to make me wait.
In the time that I've spent waiting, I could drink or masturbate!

2. Except for the rhyming elements, I can't see anything about them, form, style or language wise, that makes them different from how you'd write the same message in prose. These could be letters, forum posts or paragraphs in a story.

3. Controversial content? I dunno... I don't find them controversial at all, compared to many I've seen here. So no, I don't think that is a factor.

 

[annaswirls]

Hi! I would not consider the content controversial, as Liar said. Just keep writing and reading and listening to suggestions (Liar made some great ones!) and your poems will grow. It is sometimes difficult to make the transition between poetry and prose. I found this when I tried to venture over to story land!

There are a few places here in the poetry forum where you can ask for suggestions before submitting the poem. "Not for the thin skinned" and "Poetry in Progress."

If you enjoy the work as it is and do not wish to change, then that is cool too. Just try not to worry too much about the votes, they are fickle little things!

All the best,
~as

 

[My Erotic Trail]

What is it that you mean when you say, 'not doing so well?'

lack of reads? comments? votes? rating? compared to?
<grin ...just curious!

 

[champagne1982]

....is it just the content? It tends to be controversial.

I'm sorry if my comments here aren't very favourable to your poetry, SEVERUSMAX, but I can't go ahead and ignore what I see as an unvocalized request for feedback.

It is about the content of your poetry submissions, in fact. It's not a matter of them being controversial, though, it's simply about some not very well-presented content. You have syntax difficulties, passive tense, forced rhyme and a glaring spelling error in one of your pieces.

If you don't care to correct and edit before you post, I think your audience is being more than courteous when they decline to vote you lower than your own expectations. Since a reader cannot comment without leaving a vote on this site, even though you can vote without commenting, could explain why you haven't gleaned many comments, either.

Besides, poetry, as a rule, doesn't get many views or reads anyway.

 

[WickedEve]

I read Mein Liebling when it was first posted. The first line--or sentence--is interesting:

Mein Liebling, you have respected my wishes often and kept your hair long and red for me.

Oh, I see your poem now has a comment from your sub. Knowing that one person appreciates it may be enough. Yes?

 

[Senna Jawa]

....is it just the content? It tends to be controversial.

In my opinion your four posted poems are simply poor and deserve two 1s and two 2s.

To keep you company in your misery let me add that five of my poems have scored between 1.33 and 1.67, and a whooping 11 poems (eleven) have scored exactly 1.00. This 16 poems, voted on for a total of 24 times, make for a nice collection. A time ago I posted on this forum all my poems which scored, at the time, under 2.00 (or something like this), and asked what did these poems have in common. Nobody knew . And for a good reason. A poem which now has score 1.5, based on two votes, used to have score 5.00 based on three votes.

The Literotica "anti-fraud" computer program erases votes in a totally irrational way hence this happened to many of my poems, though possibly not in equally drastic way--some poems went from 5.00 to 1.00 but fewer votes were involved. It's even somewhat fun because a great majority of my poems had score 5.00 at one time or another (never based on more than 5 votes). But at any one time only one fourth, and these days more than one fifth (but under one fourth), have score 5.00, based mostly on just one vote for each.

Oh my, it's been a long time since I mentioned trivia last time. I have 55 poems which are not rated at all (most of them have been posted for a few years). What about you guys?

 

[Sabina_Tolchovsky]

Why do you consider this poetry? and that's not meant to be an ass hole statement, it is meant to ask a serious question...have you thought of why you consider it poetry? is it poetry because you threw some rhyme into it? Because you deem it so? ...have you read much poetry?
My suggestion is that if you want to write effective poetry you read more of it, you study some form, even if you don't ultimately use it. Study imagery and metaphor...make the reader feel and challenge them to think...

all it made me think was that I needed to feel a bottle of lighter fluid in my hand...
sorry if that offends you...

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

So it's not typical poetry. Big deal. Well, at least I know what you think. I can live with that. I'm more of a prose writer most of the time, anyway. And if you can't feel the emotions expressed in my love poem or be made to think by the satire intended in much of the verse, that's your problem.

 

[champagne1982]

So it's not typical poetry. Big deal. Well, at least I know what you think. I can live with that. I'm more of a prose writer most of the time, anyway. And if you can't feel the emotions expressed in my love poem or be made to think by the satire intended in much of the verse, that's your problem.

There you go. Why would you feel the need to attack the people behind an honest opinion, rather than try to understand where that opinion comes from? Not one poster on this thread attacked YOU, personally, yet you bluster forth and tell us all that the flaw is with us, your audience, rather than with YOU, the performer.

How very mature of you. You didn't even thank, WickedEve, Liar or annaswirls for their kind comments.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

There you go. Why would you feel the need to attack the people behind an honest opinion, rather than try to understand where that opinion comes from? Not one poster on this thread attacked YOU, personally, yet you bluster forth and tell us all that the flaw is with us, your audience, rather than with YOU, the performer.

How very mature of you. You didn't even thank, WickedEve, Liar or annaswirls for their kind comments.

Actually, I was replying to a certain comment that made no sense to me. Contrary to what they said, it DID come off as an "asshole question".

And if I was annoyed enough to not read all of the posts and thank the posters, well, here it is. Thanks for your comments, which WEREN'T personal. Unlike some.

I just found it patronizing and condescending how this particular poster commented. Not to mention a bit presumptious to assume that everyone felt the same way. Honest, constructive criticism is fine. The previous poster didn't seem to have much in the way of that.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

And I didn't attack anyone. I simply dismissed their disregard and lack of openness to the thoughts and feelings intended.

 

[champagne1982]

And I didn't attack anyone. I simply dismissed their disregard and lack of openness to the thoughts and feelings intended.

I read your statement that we all had a problem as an attack. Since you say that was not your intent, I apologize for saying it was even though an attack is what I believe had happened.

I also believe you've been blinded by the unkind remark at the end of ST's reply and can't see the advice she offers because of it.

Please, read more poetry and when you do, read carefully and try to interpret the words at a deeper level than for what they say on the surface.

Good luck.

 

[WickedEve]

since my posts seem to be often ignored, i'm going to remove it and stick it up my ass. oh yeah, that feels good.

 

[Liar]

And if you can't feel the emotions expressed in my love poem or be made to think by the satire intended in much of the verse, that's your problem.

*shrug* You asked why your poems didn't score well. The reply from most here seems to be: Because they don't communicate their feeling very well. They just tell it. Which makes most readers see the feeling, not share or even undertand it. Blaming the reciever for the failure to communicate is an easy way out.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

I read your statement that we all had a problem as an attack. Since you say that was not your intent, I apologize for saying it was even though an attack is what I believe had happened.

I also believe you've been blinded by the unkind remark at the end of ST's reply and can't see the advice she offers because of it.

Please, read more poetry and when you do, read carefully and try to interpret the words at a deeper level than for what they say on the surface.

Good luck.

Ah, so when I say something that sounds harsh, it's an attack, but someone else is not. I get it.

You can believe that it was an attack if you wish, but beliefs are nothing more than guesswork. Same thing with interpretation. Not all poetry has to have a "deeper level" or "hidden meaning" to "communicate well", as some of you put it. Sometimes a spade is just a spade, and, to use Occham's Razor, "the simplest explanation" tends to be true. In other words, sometimes one should simply say "screw subtility, I have something to say, and don't want others parsing it 300 ways to Sunday". That doesn't make me superficial. It just makes me concise.

It reminds me of why Sean Connery's character said that he quit writing in "Finding Forrester". People were constantly reinterpreting his work. "Now, what did he REALLY mean?"

It's clear that you didn't think that my poetry is all that good, for some reason. Aside from a lack of "deeper levels", I fail to see that you have included an adequate explanation as to why. Therefore, I must conclude that it is mostly a subjective and visceral dislike. So be it. My labeling it how I see it shouldn't have me dismissed as "petulant" and immature.

As for making "lemonade from lemons", well lemonade should have some value to it. Aside from vague, unsubstantiated claims of non-existent spelling errors, passive tense, "forced rhyme", and syntax problems, there was little effort to be constructive or helpful. Now the formation of the lines, being perhaps packed too closely together, would be a valid criticism. My slave noted that, and suggested a new formula. THAT was constructive.

The only possible sense that the "forced rhyme" comment meant was that perhaps it was an awkward rhyme. That concern occurred to me, but I noted several poems with similar styles that have done well enough, not to mention lyrics.

Most of my stuff was meant as satire. I don't often write poetry. I tend to write prose. My poems were meant as a critique of certain accepted dating and relationship norms that made no sense. It wasn't meant to have a "deeper level" or a "hidden meaning". It was meant to provoke a reaction and make people rethink certain things. Subtility would have ruined that. Apparently, you can't grasp that, and THAT's what I meant by it being "your problem".

 

[Tzara]

The original statement in this thread is

4 poems not doing so well....

....is it just the content? It tends to be controversial.

which does not clearly indicate a question. Presumably the concern is that the poems are either not receiving many votes and/or that those votes are low.

To echo others' responses to this: (1) I do not find the content controversial. (2) What I do find is that the poems are uninteresting. They do not say anything that I find novel or interesting, nor do they say what they do say in an interesting way.

In some ways the most interesting thing about the poems is their form. As Liar previously pointed out, the poems read as if they were written as end-rhymed poems, but are written out as if they are prose poems. For example:

Slapping

If slapping is not abuse, then tell me, for a fact, what do else
should I call it, when you say I can't strike back?​

would "normally" (conventionally) be presented as

Slapping

If slapping is not abuse,
then tell me, for a fact,
what do else should I call it,
when you say I can't strike back?​

or, as Liar suggested, as a rhymed couplet

Slapping

If slapping is not abuse, then tell me, for a fact,
what do else should I call it, when you say I can't strike back?​

There is, of course, no rule that says it must be written in the conventional form, but I don't see any reason why it isn't. The "prose-like" form merely makes it harder to read with the embedded meter and rhyme.

This poem is also a good example of some of the problems others have talked about. I am not an English major, but "what do else should I call it" certainly looks like garbled syntax to me. Either "what else do I call it" or "what else should I call it" would be better grammatically.

This poem also shows a strained line (both for rhyme and meter), "then tell me, for a fact" where "for a fact" seems to be there purely to initiate the rhyme with "back" at the end (slant rhyme, at that) and to rhythmically extend the line to more closely match the others.

Finally, the poem doesn't say anything interesting to me and, worse, doesn't say anything in an interesting way. Why is the current form somehow more trenchant than saying "slapping is abuse because I cannot slap back"? There is a bit of rhyme and a bit of metrical presentation, but the result ends up being rather sing-song and the statement of the poem seems at least tautological, if not banal.

I would make similar comments about the other poems. Of the four, "Mein Liebling" is the most interesting, both in terms of form and content. The opening line, as Eve has pointed out, has some interest, particularly "kept your hair long and red for me," which evokes an image rather than making a statement.

I hope that some of these comments help explain at least my reaction to your poems and suggest why perhaps they are "not doing so well."

 

[Liar]

My poems were meant as a critique of certain accepted dating and relationship norms that made no sense. It wasn't meant to have a "deeper level" or a "hidden meaning". It was meant to provoke a reaction and make people rethink certain things. Subtility would have ruined that. Apparently, you can't grasp that, and THAT's what I meant by it being "your problem".

Ah, but I don't think subltelty is the issue.

No hidden meaning? You just said the hidden meaning - to challenge certain accepted convetions (your love poem does the same too, in a way). This is not stated explicitly in the poems, and thus something that we as readers have to figure out. Granted, it's not hard to figure out, which imo is good. But the fact remains, this macro perspective (to use a fancy term) is nothing you mention in the poem.

The thing is... other than to type down those things as straight on statements, you dont do much else to enhance the experience for the reader. They are neutral in expression and mood, whereas the mesage you try to deliver, is not.

In order to serve it's purpose, the poem must do more than just tell the reader stuff. We're told stuff a squillion times every day. It must make the stuff interresting to register, and it must make the reader empathise with the stuff it tells. Now I only register that mr Serverus said this and said that. It doesn't do anything extra to make me understand what you mean and why you mean it.

"20 Wasted Minutes" I think is on the right track. The style and language and the rhyming makes it start to sound like an annoyed rant. Which is a feeling you would wish to have the reader experiencing. But you could have gone so much further with that, exaggerated the style a bit more, described interresting details from the impatient wait... Something to illustrate the increasing annoyment.


Hmm, I hope that made sense. I feel a migraine coming on...

 

[minsue]

One of the problems here may be a simple culture clash, as often seems to happen when prose writers on Lit venture into poetry. The comments on the stories, both on the PCs and especially on the AH, are far more of the stroking nature (be it egos or other areas ). The comments on poetry, especially when opinions are asked on the poetry boards, are honest and attempting to help someone improve on their work.

Personally, I appreciate the honest critiques (even more when they come with suggestions), but I've heard from many on the AH who do not. It seems that a large population of writers on Lit have come to expect nothing but praise. Anyone who does not like their work is immediately labeled a "troll". Sad, really.

The responses you've received here are honest, helpful replies to your request. Nothing more.

 

[SEVERUSMAX]

The original statement in this thread iswhich does not clearly indicate a question. Presumably the concern is that the poems are either not receiving many votes and/or that those votes are low.

To echo others' responses to this: (1) I do not find the content controversial. (2) What I do find is that the poems are uninteresting. They do not say anything that I find novel or interesting, nor do they say what they do say in an interesting way.

In some ways the most interesting thing about the poems is their form. As Liar previously pointed out, the poems read as if they were written as end-rhymed poems, but are written out as if they are prose poems. For example:

Slapping

If slapping is not abuse, then tell me, for a fact, what do else
should I call it, when you say I can't strike back?​

would "normally" (conventionally) be presented as

Slapping

If slapping is not abuse,
then tell me, for a fact,
what do else should I call it,
when you say I can't strike back?​

or, as Liar suggested, as a rhymed couplet

Slapping

If slapping is not abuse, then tell me, for a fact,
what do else should I call it, when you say I can't strike back?​

There is, of course, no rule that says it must be written in the conventional form, but I don't see any reason why it isn't. The "prose-like" form merely makes it harder to read with the embedded meter and rhyme.

This poem is also a good example of some of the problems others have talked about. I am not an English major, but "what do else should I call it" certainly looks like garbled syntax to me. Either "what else do I call it" or "what else should I call it" would be better grammatically.

This poem also shows a strained line (both for rhyme and meter), "then tell me, for a fact" where "for a fact" seems to be there purely to initiate the rhyme with "back" at the end (slant rhyme, at that) and to rhythmically extend the line to more closely match the others.

Finally, the poem doesn't say anything interesting to me and, worse, doesn't say anything in an interesting way. Why is the current form somehow more trenchant than saying "slapping is abuse because I cannot slap back"? There is a bit of rhyme and a bit of metrical presentation, but the result ends up being rather sing-song and the statement of the poem seems at least tautological, if not banal.

I would make similar comments about the other poems. Of the four, "Mein Liebling" is the most interesting, both in terms of form and content. The opening line, as Eve has pointed out, has some interest, particularly "kept your hair long and red for me," which evokes an image rather than making a statement.

I hope that some of these comments help explain at least my reaction to your poems and suggest why perhaps they are "not doing so well."

Well, I don't recall making such a typo. But now some of the more recent comments, by you, Liar, and even minsue, are a bit more useful and understandable.

Frankly, I think that minsue is right about there about there being a "culture clash" of sorts, but I was thinking primarily in the sense that I approach poetry from primarily a satirist's mindset. Adhering to conventional rules is not generally my norm. I tend to carry that attitude over to poetry, and so following this formula or that formula is hard for me to consider. However, if advice is given more in the vein of the last few posts, then it is easier to accept or consider, not to mention credit the person proffering it with sincere intentions.

 

[matriarch]

I don't think its a matter of producing a poem in an accepted formula. It's more about paying attention to the natural rhythm of the words. Every poem has a rhythm of its own, when the meaning behind the words becomes clearer through emphasis and focus.

Many of my poems have been reformatted with the help of others to enhance the meaning. I was glad of their input.

At the risk of stating the obvious, poems do not get anything like the hits and responses as prose. Don't expect hit levels such as you get for even the least popular of your stories. My most popular story has 43000+ views. My most popular poem only 2000+. Just the way it is, poetry is not read anything like as much as the prose.

 

[Liar]

Adhering to conventional rules is not generally my norm. I tend to carry that attitude over to poetry, and so following this formula or that formula is hard for me to consider.

Well, what you originally asked was "Why do these poems not do well?", as in few wiews and low votes, I guess. Not "Are my poems good or bad and why?", which is another thing.

The answer to the first is, in part, because you don't follow the poem convention that most readers expect to see. There are genre expectations that, if followed, makes the piece better recieved most of the time.To break those genre conventions is risky business, and it takes something extra from a writer to pull it off. However, if the writer is skilled enough to get it right, the result can be pretty cool.

If you write a novel in the style of a grocery list, or a grocery list in the shape of a rap song, most people will not get the point. I have, and nobody did.

 

[champagne1982]

Ah, so when I say something that sounds harsh, it's an attack, but someone else is not. I get it. <snip> Apparently, you can't grasp that, and THAT's what I meant by it being "your problem".

You have declined to read for the meaning behind the words, again. If you had, you'd see that you really have no need to insult me. I even apologized (something I now withdraw).

I told you what I saw wrong with your poems and why I thought people weren't responding well to them. I conclude that you still haven't read my original reply, because, if you had, sure as fuck you wouldn't be telling me I have a problem. Instead, you'd be pulling your poems and spending some time editing them before asking anyone else to waste their time on your bullshit.

One more thing, the point in bullshit is that it comes from assholes, since we all have one, we can't complain about the stink from someone else's. Y'know what I'm sayin'? If you don't, oh well, then it's gotta be your problem since I firmly believe that I have communicated exactly what I want to say.