About the Border Wall

[KeithD]

Tell it to Israel. Their border wall, in conjunction with other legislative enactments, has cut their illegal immigration to near zero.

Have you bothered to look at the comparative topography? Or considered what constitutes the separate issues. Obviously not. If you want to be blind to circumstance, I'll note that the Berlin Wall didn't work out very well physically and it was a PR disaster.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

Then why all the beef about voter ID?

Why are the welfare peddlers SO insistent on keeping and gaining as many illegal immigrants as possible and demonizing anyone against that idea as a xenophobic Nazi?

Current US political parties only go on multi year campaigns for 2 reasons....money and or votes.

Last time I checked the only border jumpers with money/valuables are carrying for the cartels.

This has been covered dozens of times. It would stop legal citizens from voting.

 

[BotanyBoy]

This has been covered dozens of times. It would stop legal citizens from voting.

No it wouldn't it would make a rather small number of legal citizens go fill out some extra paperwork every few to several years, something the vast majority of functioning adults participating in our society already do anyhow.

That's not the same as stopping legal citizens from voting.

Not anymore than requiring ID for a protest permit or gun purchase is stopping free speech or the right to bear arms.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Tell it to Israel. Their border wall, in conjunction with other legislative enactments, has cut their illegal immigration to near zero.

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...-fence-israel-cut-illegal-immigration-99-per/

Not an example worth imitating.

 

[HisArpy]

Have you bothered to look at the comparative topography? Or considered what constitutes the separate issues. Obviously not. If you want to be blind to circumstance, I'll note that the Berlin Wall didn't work out very well physically and it was a PR disaster.

The topography thing is a nonstarter. Israel's wall is in the desert. Guess what the border in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas is?

Israel's wall is only 157 miles long because it's a tiny country. That doesn't mean it isn't working.

Egypt has a wall too. Betcha didn't know that. It's a real wall too, not just a fence and goes so deep underground that smugglers have a hard time getting underneath it. that wall seems to be working.

Spain has a border wall/fence too. It works.

The Berlin Wall is a different critter. It was intended to keep people in. In that aspect it worked well. The reason it came down is because the people behind the wall tore it down.

There's a good article on border walls. It's actually a good read and has lots of information most people don't know.

http://hir.harvard.edu/article/?a=14542

Then there's this:

https://mida.org.il/2017/02/21/israels-border-fence-worked/

We need to do more than erect a barrier. We need to change the legislative landscape which allows illegal immigrants free and unfettered access to privileges which only citizens should have. The wall is only the first step. And, as we saw during the meeting between Schumer, Pelosi, and Trump, the D's are unwilling to do ANY of the things necessary for security of the country.

 

[HisArpy]

Not an example worth imitating.

Tell it to Egypt. And Spain. And Hungary. And...

 

[Luk]

Why would they agree to anything when 45 gave them everything? Poor Timmy. Just can't get out of his own way.

 

[CandiCame]

Tell it to Egypt. And Spain. And Hungary. And...

I didn't know any of those places had a boarder wall, and I still don't know about Egypt and Hungary because Spain was the first one I checked, because it seemed the weirdest to me, and literally everything I googled was, "Here's why Spain's boarder wall was a waste of time and money and doesn't work and was stupid to build".

This article talks about how people not only stormed the wall, 4x more people arrived by sea.

I think they're all gonna say the same thing.

Oh, no, this one is different, it spells out how the walls can be called a success if you don't give a flying fuck about them using human corpses as masonry to prop up that ideology and how it's just chock full of human rights violations and murder.

 

[Luk]

Many losers have brought up other walls being effective and they were stupid too.

 

[KeithD]

The topography thing is a nonstarter. Israel's wall is in the desert. Guess what the border in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas is?

Yep, you haven't looked at the topography of the U.S. southern border. I sort of knew you hadn't. The problem of building a wall across that has only been in the news for a couple of years.

The stupidity of building a wall that ends on a sea coast at each end and can be flown over and is so remote in places you can take your sweet time digging under has been available to wall planners for centuries.

The wall idea is a dumb nonstarter both in physical security terms and PR and, obviously, you are being just as dumb.

 

[cowslinger64]

There's a good article on border walls. It's actually a good read and has lots of information most people don't know.

http://hir.harvard.edu/article/?a=14542

Then there's this:

https://mida.org.il/2017/02/21/israels-border-fence-worked/

We need to do more than erect a barrier. We need to change the legislative landscape which allows illegal immigrants free and unfettered access to privileges which only citizens should have. The wall is only the first step. And, as we saw during the meeting between Schumer, Pelosi, and Trump, the D's are unwilling to do ANY of the things necessary for security of the country.

First of all... what an idiotic, colossal waste of money.. This wall is about trumps ego and the morons that worship at his feet.



Even Fox News makes more sense than you.. and I'm surprised to see it on their site.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tru...ill-actually-cost-according-to-a-statistician


Trump's border wall -- how much it will actually cost according to a statistician


Construction

Size of the wall: 1,150 miles long; 40 feet high; 10 feet deep into the ground; 1 foot wide

Total volume of material: 11.2 million cubic yards

Materials: Approximately $8.7 billion in concrete (97 percent of the materials); approximately $3.6 billion in steel (3 percent of the materials)

Labor: Approximately $12.3 billion (given the labor costs on the original 654 miles of barriers we can assume a conservative 1:1 ratio of materials to labor)

Land acquisition: About 60 percent of the border is privately owned land. While the federal government has the power to take privately owned property for public purposes, it must provide “just compensation.” Based on previous purchases from the 2006-2009 wall construction, the cost at most would be $300,000 per mile acquired, or approximately $200 million altogether.

In total, the actual physical cost of the wall would be about $25 billion. That sounds like a ton of money. But it isn’t just one person paying for it – the entirety of the U.S. taxpayer base would collectively foot the bill.


The Trump administration wants to enforce border security with a combination of a physical wall and natural barriers that would protect the estimated 1,933 miles-long border between the United States and Mexico. Many different cost estimates have been thrown around, from as little as $8 billion to as much as $70 billion, with anywhere from $150 million per year to $750 million per year in maintenance.

=======

I've read other estimates that were much higher.. and try not to forget that the wall is NOT an impenetrable barrier.

 

[CandiCame]

Yep, you haven't looked at the topography of the U.S. southern border. I sort of knew you hadn't. The problem of building a wall across that has only been in the news for a couple of years.

To be fair I kinda brought up in my rant a few of those things like the government not owning the land and it fucking up ecosystems that would kill endangered animals and shit.

Like if they do this I'll never not be pissed about it. If the government seizes private land, destroys ecosystems, costs us a fortune, all for something that we all know is bullshit and will NEVER work properly and will take a million fucking years and just is fucking stupid, I'll just... I'll be pissed.

Edit: Sorry, typos

 

[ryan8558]

So is the rise in the defense budget to account for the wall our military is going to build?

 

[Luk]

I love how no one has been able to answer the OP's question. There's no fucking way that wall gets built.

 

[phrodeau]

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scie...al-challenges-building-border-wall-180962072/

What Geology Has to Say About Building a 1,000-Mile Border Wall

The southern U.S. border alone contains desert, wetlands, grasslands, rivers, mountains and forests—all of which create vastly different problems for builders.

Can these hurdles be overcome? Smithsonian.com asked two scientists, a geophysicist and a hydrogeologist, which geologic factors the wall’s builders should take into account first if they are to execute this ambitious project.

…Grounding in bedrock is a key feature when building a megastructure, says [field geophysicist Mika] McKinnon. For something as extensive as a 1,000-mile wall that stands upwards of 20 feet tall, builders will need to anchor the whole thing beneath the surface to the underlying rock if they want it to stay upright.

The problem is, getting to bedrock can be a doozy. Great swaths of the border feature a hefty layer of loose sediments—dirt, soils, sand—laying atop the bedrock. In some regions the bedrock is hundreds if not thousands of feet down. “Some places the bedrock will be too deep—you'll never be able to reach the bedrock in an affordable fashion,” says McKinnon.

Sediments, particularly in clay-rich materials, can take on water, swelling like a sponge in a bowl of water. The resulting cycles of swelling and shrinking during wet and dry periods can crack the very foundation of structures. And these types of soils are common in many states where the border wall will be built, including Texas and parts of New Mexico.

Dirt can also eat up the wall’s support system. Soils that are naturally acidic or have high chloride levels can rapidly degrade iron-rich metals, says McKinnon. These soils could “corrode any, say, nice big metal rebar that you're putting in there to stabilize your foundation,” she says. Other soils have a high amount of sulfates, a compound found in the common mineral gypsum that breaks down both metals and concrete. Sulfate-rich soils are common in what’s known as the Trans-Pecos soils along the border in the southwestern arm of Texas.

“You're going to encounter hundreds, if not thousands, of different types of soils along [such a lengthy] linear pathway,” says [ICF senior hydrogeologist Gary] Clendenin. (In fact, there are over 1,300 kinds of soil in Texas alone.) And many of those soils aren’t going to be the right type to build on top of. At that point, would-be wall-builders have two options: Spend more time and money excavating the existing soils and replacing them with better dirt—or avoid the region altogether.

One thing they can’t always avoid, though, are regions at risk of earthquakes and floods. Rivers run along a sizeable portion of the U.S.-Mexico border, which can create a very real danger of flood.

Earthquakes are also relatively common in the western U.S. Depending on the build, some of these tremblors could cause cracks or breaks in the wall, says McKinnon.

Even if all the proper surveys are completed and the boxes checked, success isn’t guaranteed. “There are just so many things that have to be done before you even shovel out the first scoop of dirt,” says Clendenin.

Despite all of our modern surveying tools and careful planning, the earth will still surprise you, adds McKinnon. “This part that you thought was boring and simple and easy to predict is actually totally complicated,” she says. “Look at any major excavation for a subway system, any major bridge construction, any large tower complex; all of them had intense surveys beforehand, extensive design phases, and still had to modify while building.”

After the announcement of Trump’s Executive Order, McKinnon took to Twitter to leave a foreboding reminder of the consequences of underestimating the Earth. “Earth doesn’t forgive sloppy,” she wrote. She added in an interview: “Ignore geology at your peril."

 

[Luk]

Don't forget about the stretch that Cards Against Humanity purchased so 45 couldn't build on that land.

 

[CandiCame]

Don't forget about the stretch that Cards Against Humanity purchased so 45 couldn't build on that land.

Not to keep bringing up Native shit but NATIVE SHIT.

 

[Kirkrapine]

Not to keep bringing up Native shit but NATIVE SHIT.

If the troops want to operate there, what can the Indians do to stop them?

 

[CandiCame]

If the troops want to operate there, what can the Indians do to stop them?

What a depressing fucking question.

That has been asked for centuries.

Edit: I guess I had hoped that just once, just one fucking time in human history white folks might decide not to be dicks.

 

[SgtSpiderMan]

No it wouldn't it would make a rather small number of legal citizens go fill out some extra paperwork every few to several years, something the vast majority of functioning adults participating in our society already do anyhow.

That's not the same as stopping legal citizens from voting.

Not anymore than requiring ID for a protest permit or gun purchase is stopping free speech or the right to bear arms.

Holy smokes! You’ve been busted for lying about that before, but it didn’t stop you from doing it again.

 

[JohnnySavage]

Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man

 

[Luk]

Great point. Democrats do not want open borders. Hard for anyone to argue that they do.

Bot is way too gottdamn willfully ignorant to understand that basic fact.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Holy smokes! You’ve been busted for lying about that before, but it didn’t stop you from doing it again.

He's almost Trump-ian in his denial of reality.

 

[Adre]

How many Republicans have illegals cleaning their homes and mowing their lawns? Will The Wall change this? Fucking hypocrites.

 

[Luk]

He's almost Trump-ian in his denial of reality.

Rob, the PC term is "alternate reality". We don't want to trigger the Trumplican, do we?