And lets not forget effing NE...

[tickledkitty]

Please! Don't quote the troll.

Sometimes you just gotta do it.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

My new book: GIRLS ARE FROM VENUS, ROB IS FROM URANUS.

 

[Kev H]

Hmmmmmmmm so lemme get this straight... lets remove the gay part of the equation for the moment. No single parents because they are not good enough to raise a child on their own......

so does that mean that we should outlaw women from having children without a man in their lives that is going to be there permanently? And what about divorce... if they children either stay with one parent or the other.... should the children be removed because there is not two parents there...?

See here is the thing, when you make sweeping legislation in order to disenfranchise one group of people you have a tendency to fuck others in the process.

I agree that any broad brush--especially in this case--could harm more than the target, but as an intellectual exercise, let's consider the other side for a moment (fairly).

Understand that many religious supporters are not intentionally evil, but here's how it begins. The basic underpinning of faith: that an ideal world of God-fearing Christians would best propagate themselves (their culture) with the nuclear family as its standard. Now be fair--there's been, from their experiences over the last 80 years, the majority of people from these kinds of home, and they want that for their children and grandchildren. An ideal standard that they feel is at the root of America's success as a society (until the late 50s, and I hear many blame Dr Spock--not the Vulcan one).

So, in a twist of (il)logic, they take this faith in the stability of the holy marriage, and apply it to our societal woes, in a web they see as unraveling. Crime is up, social distress is up, poor judgment it up, divorce, teen pregnancies, etc. Much of this comes from the crumbling foundations of a solid way of doing things. Right or wrong, they don't think "piss on the gays." But they see it as yet another wounding of the natural order (how God meant it to be--I mean, get this: he created Adam and then Eve to be his mate, not Johnson). They are equally worried about divorce (most churches spend efforts playing marriage councilor), out-of-wedlock birth rates (hence the unrealistic drive for abstinence), child abuse (many churches provide support structures like orphanages, notably the Catholics), and other related societal woes.

It's quite easy to convince a Christian that the more leeway is given (more deviations from the norm), the greater our problems become, the more the fabric of our society comes undone because they see this to be true. It's not that they want people to feel inferior or worse--it's quite the opposite. They want people to begin feeling better about themselves and they will by adhering more closely God's ideals.

Now, the very basis of their thought process may be wrong, but it's their faith, and you cannot argue against faith. Faith which underlies this movement to "correct the course."

I'm guessing that few people are open-minded and flexible and willing enough to see and even sympathize with both sides of this struggle--it's truly sad that faith and rights/self-worth must clash, but this seems to be the trap we've stumbled into (note Mat's comparison to Europe as proof that it doesn't have to be this way, that coexistence is possible, but America is already in this pit).

In the case of gay marriages bans, have confidence that the courts will overturn it, because these days they side with the legal aspects over the religious when forced to choose. But understand, that this will cause just as much distress among some Christians--once again, not because they hate gays, but because they feel they are being forced to watch the destruction of their culture. Of the values that were responsible for this great nation and their way of life.

You know those Christians are wrong; I know they are wrong, but they don't. You cannot prove to them that allowing gay marriages throughout the nation, as well as the same adoptive rights, will not further destroy a once-healthy system (and mandate from God). They've seen the progression from good to bad to worse, they've seen the handwriting on the wall. So, in the interest of civility and compassion, how do you keep their world from shattering while you keep them from prohibiting yours?

 

[rgraham666]

Actually, crime is down. But thanks to the 'liberal' media people think it's up.

They also think about half a dozen black men are responsible for all that crime too.