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Angels or Assholes?

Are most people basically good or basically bad

  • I believe most people are good

    Votes: 18 36.7%

  • I believe most people are bad

    Votes: 5 10.2%

  • I believe it’s more complicated than “good or bad”

    Votes: 25 51.0%

  • Other of your choice (gum, porn, etc)

    Votes: 1 2.0%
  • Total voters
    49
This is some pretty heavy philosphical shit for a lit thread.

/Captain Obvious
 
I'm apparently not the only one who thinks it, but I'm one of the people who believes people are assholes. To elucidate a little:

People are people, and neither inherently good nor evil.
Click to expand...

This I don't agree with. A person is a person and can be either good or evil; in a group, however, people become idiots afflicted with peer pressure, mob mentality and all that good stuff. The violence at the West Ham/Millwall game a few weeks ago? That's pretty much my point in a nutshell.

I realise I'm ebbing rather close to a Rorschachian view of the world (another example I was going to use was the Kitty Genovese thing), and that's not really a good thing, but treating the world as good or even neutral gets you screwed when you come up against somebody who's selfish, nasty or any number of other things.
 
MisterSir said:
I'm apparently not the only one who thinks it, but I'm one of the people who believes people are assholes. To elucidate a little:



This I don't agree with. A person is a person and can be either good or evil; in a group, however, people become idiots afflicted with peer pressure, mob mentality and all that good stuff. The violence at the West Ham/Millwall game a few weeks ago? That's pretty much my point in a nutshell.

I realise I'm ebbing rather close to a Rorschachian view of the world (another example I was going to use was the Kitty Genovese thing), and that's not really a good thing, but treating the world as good or even neutral gets you screwed when you come up against somebody who's selfish, nasty or any number of other things.
Click to expand...

While I am prone to agree with due to cynicism (I have been known to say that the IQ of a group varies in inverse proportion to the size of its' membership), the idea still stands. For every example of groups of people being absolute idiots, you can likewise find group doing far greater good than any individual can do. That is the concept behind charity after all. Many people get together and give what amounts to small help individually, and that help is pooled to produce great effect.

And, no, treating the world as good or neutral does not wind up with you being screwed so long as you keep both eyes open and understand that each person you deal with is an individual, and thus capable of evil. But treating the world as evil will most certainly cause you to lose out on much of the good.
 
jenniferbaby said:
What confuses me is when people honestly believe they are good when all their actions point to the contrary. I wonder if it's something in their brain that keeps them from truly seeing themselves, perhaps the same thing that makes them unkind.
Click to expand...

We all self-deceive, to one extent or another. Some of us are more conscious of it than others. The most crooked people I have known in my life were so crooked that they sincerely believed they were honest.
 
SimonBrooke said:
We all self-deceive, to one extent or another. Some of us are more conscious of it than others. The most crooked people I have known in my life were so crooked that they sincerely believed they were honest.
Click to expand...

I think at some point it shifts into mental illness, surely. Where's the line of demarcation between arsehole and sociopath?
 
Aquila1 said:
I think at some point it shifts into mental illness, surely. Where's the line of demarcation between arsehole and sociopath?
Click to expand...

Now THAT is a very interesting question, and one on which I have spent many an idle pondering-hour over the years. It hasn't got me anywhere yet, of course ;)
 
Stag of Oberon said:
and now i suspect someone will have to post the clinical definition of sociopathy, or whatever the current term is.

I think it's defined by an inability to connect with other people on an emotional level. A failing to have any sympathy or empathize with the plights of others.

Sounds like an asshole, right? maybe even a potential murderer?

Yet i have known a couple (who self-describedly fit that description at least), who are basically good people, and who go out of their way to help people even though they are utterly unphased and emotionally flatlined in the face of someone else's suffering.

They each had their own philisophical reasons for helping others, and they both claimed that they were basically assholes. One of them actually managed a soup kitchen at a shelter for a while.

Wierd.

by the by, i've had the misfortune in my youth of doing volunteer work for a park ranger who was a complete and utter asshole. While i can agree that diffent demographics may have greater or lesser concentrations of asshole people with asshole behavior, I don't think there is even one profession, or any other deliniation of people, that are in someway blessed to not have assholes in their midst.
Click to expand...

"assholes in their midst"...is that the sequel to 'Gorillas in the Mist'? (couldn't help myself) :D

And I would hope that nobody would be silly enough to try and define a sociopath. I imagine it's a very broad spectrum.:)
 
I vote good.

My perspective is that not everyone views the world the same, but most generally do what they think is right. Through that, most people do good.

They've done what's right by them, can't expect more than that.
 
Aquila1 said:
I think at some point it shifts into mental illness, surely. Where's the line of demarcation between arsehole and sociopath?
Click to expand...

Good question. Not the point of the thread though, and I'm resisting the urge to do anymore hijacking.

I answered more complicated. I think each individual view of the world skews things a lot. I also think that Newton's Third Law comes into play here. For every good act done there is an equal and opposite (evil) act somewhere else in the world. In other words, the scales stay balanced. So some people encounter more good and others more bad, but it's all equal in the end.

God I hope I got the right Law in there. :confused:
 
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I voted more complicated.

SimonBrooke said:
We all self-deceive, to one extent or another. Some of us are more conscious of it than others.
Click to expand...

Lit has really pointed this out for me. Quite frequently I see a post and think to myself, “What an ass!” Shortly thereafter, I realize I have made the same sort of post in a different context.

So for all you assholes on Lit, thanks! :D
 
:D=good

:devil:=evil

Shit, that was easy.:rolleyes:


EDITED AFTER SOME MORE THOUGHT:
Sorry, I guess some of those who post here might think I've got it backwards, so I guess it wasn't as easy as I thought!:eek:
 
Last edited:
DVS said:
:D=good

:devil:=evil

Shit, that was easy.:rolleyes:


EDITED AFTER SOME MORE THOUGHT:
Sorry, I guess some of those who post here might think I've got it backwards, so I guess it wasn't as easy as I thought!:eek:
Click to expand...

Wanna get really complicated? Try looking at a Satanist's definition of good and evil. And, most likely, not what you are thinking.
 
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