Are abusive comments really that common here?

[lance gt]

I have been slammed for my lesbian porn or when I a female POV.... yet. I think it would be a cheap shot. Sometimes, I wish I had chosen a more gender neutral pseudonym for the reader's sake, to make it easier for them to suspend disbelief. I used to bristle when I would see a call for submissions from women only, until it occurred to me, "Why NOT encourage more women to write more porn?"

I read recently that more women buy gay erotic romances than men. I found that interesting, just as I find it interesting when I stumble across a female writer who writes gay guy erotica.

But if writers can't think outside their experiences, we'd never have sci/fi, would we?

So true Bucky. I get told in comments that the sex is hot, the romance is perfect, my characters are like real women and so on. I can never figure out why a woman, pure lesbian or not, wouldn't enjoy reading stories like that, regardless of the gender writing them.

I strive to be good at whatever genre I write in and present a story a reader can get into and find believeable. I have thought of writing under a female nom de plume, just to avoid the distaste of men writing lesbian.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

So true Bucky. I get told in comments that the sex is hot, the romance is perfect, my characters are like real women and so on. I can never figure out why a woman, pure lesbian or not, wouldn't enjoy reading stories like that, regardless of the gender writing them.

I strive to be good at whatever genre I write in and present a story a reader can get into and find believeable. I have thought of writing under a female nom de plume, just to avoid the distaste of men writing lesbian.

I was in an LGBT class last semester, and it's kind of interesting that you say that you feel ostracized because you write lesbian porn. It was the same attitude that caused a lot of trans-phobia during the women's movement. There was a lot of literature and feeling from lesbians against transwomen.

I think that it's kind of the same thing in your case, just a feeling of male intrusion that can be distasteful. In my class there were a lot of LGBT folk, and I was surprised to learn that even lesbians will watch and read gay erotica. Why? Because it feels friendlier, and more even then most lesbian porn. In the memorable words of one of my fellow students,

"Gay porn is the one erotic medium where straight men haven't decided to fuck it up."

And she's kind of right. Women are objectified in straight porn and lesbian porn, false stereotypes are spread (all women are bi, slut shaming, etc.) but gay porn has a kind of equality that is really refreshing.

And the lesbian porn made for lesbians is usually pretty expensive and hard to find.

By the way, Can you imagine how hard it must be to be trans? Hate from all sides

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I was in an LGBT class last semester, and it's kind of interesting that you say that you feel ostracized because you write lesbian porn. It was the same attitude that caused a lot of trans-phobia during the women's movement. There was a lot of literature and feeling from lesbians against transwomen.

I think that it's kind of the same thing in your case, just a feeling of male intrusion that can be distasteful. In my class there were a lot of LGBT folk, and I was surprised to learn that even lesbians will watch and read gay erotica. Why? Because it feels friendlier, and more even then most lesbian porn. In the memorable words of one of my fellow students,

"Gay porn is the one erotic medium where straight men haven't decided to fuck it up."

And she's kind of right. Women are objectified in straight porn and lesbian porn, false stereotypes are spread (all women are bi, slut shaming, etc.) but gay porn has a kind of equality that is really refreshing.

And the lesbian porn made for lesbians is usually pretty expensive and hard to find.

By the way, Can you imagine how hard it must be to be trans? Hate from all sides

The thing is, most lesbian porn is made by men for the consumption of other men. It has very little to do with actual lesbianism and features few genuine lesbians. It appeals to male fantasies and those of some bi-females.

Real lesbian porn would be unrecognizable to most men who think they enjoy lesbian porn.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

The thing is, most lesbian porn is made by men for the consumption of other men. It has very little to do with actual lesbianism and features few genuine lesbians. It appeals to male fantasies and those of some bi-females.

Real lesbian porn would be unrecognizable to most men who think they enjoy lesbian porn.

I've heard this said before and have accept it as fact. I don't doubt the validity of the claim. However, I am curious how real lesbian porn would be different. Would it be in the set-up, the seduction? Would it be different in the sexual activities? (I can't imagine how, given the breadth of what I've seen two women do to each in the lesbian porn I've watched.) Would it be different in how it's shot or lit, perhaps fewer close-ups on body parts banging together and more shots of the whole person?

It's not an easy thing for me to reason out. As a bi-guy, I'll watch straight, bi-guy, or gay porn and I perceive little differences. Of course, all of the above was produced primarily by guys for guys, leaving me empty to imagine lesbian porn made for lesbians.

 

[sr71plt]

That's a surprise. I hadn't thought that most lesbian stories (or do you mean specifically porn, not the broader span of erotica?) were written by men. Is this really true? Is it true of stories posted to Lit.?

 

[Darkniciad]

That's a surprise. I hadn't thought that most lesbian stories (or do you mean specifically porn, not the broader span of erotica?) were written by men. Is this really true? Is it true of stories posted to Lit.?

Considering the number of those on the toplist that are ( claimed to be )written by men, despite a large contingent of "male writers get a 1" voters in the category, and the number of same in the recent submissions, contest winners, etc. I'd say so -- at least on Lit.

When you take that, and the Alexa demographics of the visitors into account, you can assume that many of those who don't report a gender are likely male as well, which further boost the numbers.

 

[lance gt]

Going by my own experiences, I tend to be accepted by a wide range of women readers, some lesbian, some bi, some straight. Like other genres, there tends to be cliques of those who don't care who writes it, as long as it's good and those who won't accept anything unless it's a female writer. Therein lies my thoughts posted before about posting under a female name instead of Lance.

I have had many comments that say I capture it nicely and others that say it could never happen. I try to remember that these are opinions expressed and not necessarily by lesbians, if they come as anons.

I stay away from lesbian porn movies, because there's truly no reality to them. Real lesbian porn is more balanced between the emotion and the interaction sexually. I watch my neighbour's daughter and her girlfriend when they're over and I see first hand how they act. I get so much info from them as well in how to get two women to come together. I don't always get it right, but I come damn close.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Therein lies my thoughts posted before about posting under a female name instead of Lance.

Surely you've consider performing the test of posting a single story under a gender neutral name or a female nom de plume?

(please, someone pick-up on the "Airplane"-esque element of my response!)

 

[sr71plt]

Considering the number of those on the toplist that are ( claimed to be )written by men, despite a large contingent of "male writers get a 1" voters in the category, and the number of same in the recent submissions, contest winners, etc. I'd say so -- at least on Lit.

When you take that, and the Alexa demographics of the visitors into account, you can assume that many of those who don't report a gender are likely male as well, which further boost the numbers.

Right. I had just been looking at the category "new" list. Four claimed females, three claimed males, three nondeclared. I would agree, then, that most of these were probably male writers. I knew that most GM writers were women; it just comes as a surprise that most lesbian writers here might be male.

 

[lance gt]

Surely you've consider performing the test of posting a single story under a gender neutral name or a female nom de plume?

(please, someone pick-up on the "Airplane"-esque element of my response!)

I have and don't call me Shirley. I wrote one and it's doing pretty well so far. I want to see how the feedback does and what comments it gets. I'm not going to complain about a 4.6 avg score per chapter, but I know I was heavily 1 bombed with no comments to support them.

 

[lance gt]

Right. I had just been looking at the category "new" list. Four claimed females, three claimed males, three nondeclared. I would agree, then, that most of these were probably male writers. I knew that most GM writers were women; it just comes as a surprise that most lesbian writers here might be male.

I look at the lists of authors I'm added to when I'm faved and a great deal of the writers are women, or at least have female names. Some noted names I see are Baby-Lez, Colleen Thomas, Julia Juilia etc. that appear often.

As for demographics of readers, it runs the gamut from one side to the other, male and female.

 

[PapaMIdnite]

That's the thing with free speech: we all have it.

I would just pay attention to the critic who has a reason behind the critic and who a least hints at that reason, and to the rest... yeah, well. There are dickheads that slams others as a way to boost their needy ego. And they also have the right to free speech

 

[soflabbwlvr]

That's a surprise. I hadn't thought that most lesbian stories (or do you mean specifically porn, not the broader span of erotica?) were written by men. Is this really true? Is it true of stories posted to Lit.?

I was referring specifically to porn videos, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the same pattern exists regarding Lit. stories, also.

 

[TxRad]

Surely you've consider performing the test of posting a single story under a gender neutral name or a female nom de plume?

(please, someone pick-up on the "Airplane"-esque element of my response!)

Years ago, I wrote the same basic story twice. I posted it under my name and under a "female" name. My score, 4.35, the "female" score, 4.63. Comments were very similar except for the "men don't know shit about lesbian sex" I received.

So you do the math on male verses female when writing lesbian stories.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Years ago, I wrote the same basic story twice. I posted it under my name and under a "female" name. My score, 4.35, the "female" score, 4.63. Comments were very similar except for the "men don't know shit about lesbian sex" I received.

So you do the math on male verses female when writing lesbian stories.

I'm willing to bet that nearly any type of story, with the possible exception of gay porn (and even then, I doubt it), will probably score higher if the reader thinks a woman may have written it.

(Side note: Thanks Lance for picking up the reference)

 

[sr71plt]

I'm willing to bet that nearly any type of story, with the possible exception of gay porn (and even then, I doubt it), will probably score higher if the reader thinks a woman may have written it.

(Side note: Thanks Lance for picking up the reference)

I wouldn't write off Gay porn either. If you go to the marketplace, you're likely to find the GM e-books that are best-seller are by female authors.

 

[sr71plt]

I was referring specifically to porn videos, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if the same pattern exists regarding Lit. stories, also.

Apparently so, as a brief scan of lesbian titles here indicates.

 

[lovecraft68]

Changing direction a bit on this thread I am going to mention something that occurs to me whenever I see threads about nasty comments and what to do about them.

There are always the same schools of thought. Ignore them, laugh at them, delete them, don't get upset by them etc....

I'm beginning to wonder if the way an author handles comments are simply an extension of their R/L persona.

Another words, my theory is to just leave them there and not give a shit, I think they're funny and don't care. In R/L I have a pretty much Teflon personality as in nothing anyone says to me gets to me.

I wonder if the people who are really bothered by crappy remarks here, are the type that are pretty thin skinned in R/L as well.

Or perhaps, its because they take their writing so seriously they can't laugh at or shrug off some dingbats remark.

Just a thought.

 

[lovecraft68]

I agree with Stella.

There are tons of guys posting over in the GLBT and fetish threads, I think a Bi-sexual category would be well received.

But it has been brought up many times, both to the owners and publicly in threads and they don't seem to have any interest.

To me, it is most likely that they would consider GM the place to put it.

Let's face it, this is the double standard of Gay/Lesbian. Bi-sexual women are a staple of porn and does not seem offensive no matter where it is placed (except maybe GM)

Two men however, gets a lot of squick factor almost anywhere but GM. So the BI section would most likely only really apply to bi-men, because no one cares about bi-women being involved in a story.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

That's the thing with free speech: we all have it.

I would just pay attention to the critic who has a reason behind the critic and who a least hints at that reason, and to the rest... yeah, well. There are dickheads that slams others as a way to boost their needy ego. And they also have the right to free speech

And youre not obligated to go apeshit over comments you luv or hate.

 

[Stella_Omega]

But if writers can't think outside their experiences, we'd never have sci/fi, would we?

That depends on how you define "their experiences" because if you read a sampling of SciFi from different eras it's very obvious that each generation's authors are speculating from their own experiences and assumptions and not taking any alternate experiences or assumptions into consideration.

Although most every writer is shocked and hurt to hear that opinion expressed...

I've heard this said before and have accept it as fact. I don't doubt the validity of the claim. However, I am curious how real lesbian porn would be different. Would it be in the set-up, the seduction? Would it be different in the sexual activities? (I can't imagine how, given the breadth of what I've seen two women do to each in the lesbian porn I've watched.) Would it be different in how it's shot or lit, perhaps fewer close-ups on body parts banging together and more shots of the whole person?

It's not an easy thing for me to reason out. As a bi-guy, I'll watch straight, bi-guy, or gay porn and I perceive little differences. Of course, all of the above was produced primarily by guys for guys, leaving me empty to imagine lesbian porn made for lesbians.

There would be more context. There would be a panorama of the room, for instance, a few closeups of the actor's faces, more whole- and half-body shots, and very importantly, more shots that show the actors making eye contact with each other, exchanging information.

And more shots of hands. Women, to make a sweeping generalisation, have a thing for hands and what hands do-- grasp, clench, flutter, hold each other.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Changing direction a bit on this thread I am going to mention something that occurs to me whenever I see threads about nasty comments and what to do about them.

There are always the same schools of thought. Ignore them, laugh at them, delete them, don't get upset by them etc....

I'm beginning to wonder if the way an author handles comments are simply an extension of their R/L persona.

As a comparative newbie to Lit, I well remember having the same reaction as the OP and I appreciated many of the same voices in this thread offering their opinion and guidance.

I think it's just surprising, especially if you start with something in LV. I have been part of various writer groups in the past (online and IRL), where the general tone was one of support and nuturing. (Which means the meanest shit was made out of earshot of the author, of course.) So, for the new submitter, I think they arrive with a romantic notion in the back of their minds and their heart on their sleeve.

Between participating in the forums and getting used to the comments - your skin gets thick quick.

...if you read a sampling of SciFi from different eras it's very obvious that each generation's authors are speculating from their own experiences and assumptions...

I agree. Good point, but my general contention still stands.

There would be more context. There would be a panorama of the room, for instance, a few closeups of the actor's faces, more whole- and half-body shots, and very importantly, more shots that show the actors making eye contact with each other, exchanging information.

And more shots of hands. Women, to make a sweeping generalisation, have a thing for hands and what hands do-- grasp, clench, flutter, hold each other.

Thanks, I was hoping someone would tackle those questions. And it's the answer I was expecting, so that means it must be the one true answer, right?

As for the hands thing - that's interesting. It help explains why I felt as if I had more appeal when I did magic professionally than later when I moved into radio.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

That depends on how you define "their experiences" because if you read a sampling of SciFi from different eras it's very obvious that each generation's authors are speculating from their own experiences and assumptions and not taking any alternate experiences or assumptions into consideration.

Although most every writer is shocked and hurt to hear that opinion expressed...

There would be more context. There would be a panorama of the room, for instance, a few closeups of the actor's faces, more whole- and half-body shots, and very importantly, more shots that show the actors making eye contact with each other, exchanging information.

And more shots of hands. Women, to make a sweeping generalisation, have a thing for hands and what hands do-- grasp, clench, flutter, hold each other.

This

I think you hit the nail on the head there... A lot of the GM stuff I read is just so focused on the genitals! You get descriptions of mouths, genitals, asses, and occasionally muscles, but just so little about hands!

I think eyes, too. I looked back on a piece of mine once and I noticed that whenever I was showing emotions I focused on the eyes, or where the eyes were looking

 

[lance gt]

This

I think you hit the nail on the head there... A lot of the GM stuff I read is just so focused on the genitals! You get descriptions of mouths, genitals, asses, and occasionally muscles, but just so little about hands!

I think eyes, too. I looked back on a piece of mine once and I noticed that whenever I was showing emotions I focused on the eyes, or where the eyes were looking

I think of it as paying more attention to inter-action, than the action itself. I focus more on how things are making them feel and what the action is doing, than the act itself. I'll say I put 30% into the action and 70% into everything else about the event.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Lets do this! Create a category for narcissistic writers with fragile egos. Scoring will be by how much readers REALLY like the story. And comments will come from a menu of templates: HER STORY IS BETTER THAN CHRISTMAS.