Are these types of women less desirable for writing?

[yowser]

Most of my characters are atypical body types, in most respects. The female lead in Cape Cod Capers had an unusual reaction to fitness training:

"Your body is taut -- very strong looking. Do you work out or something?" I asked.

"I run and cycle a lot. I started lifting weights about five years ago because I wanted to lose some weight. But my thighs got bigger not smaller, to my surprise, and I decided I liked the looks of them that way more."

 

[MetaBob]

Nia devastates, despite not being superhuman like some other female characters on Lit. (I think) I'm getting close to finishing that book.

 

[SimonDoom]

I did a search and found 122 stories that use "muscular women" as a title or text and 89 stories that use it as a tag. So there is some precedent, and there is some audience. Fetish appears to be the most popular category, and some of the stories have done quite well.

Go for it.

 

[MrPixel]

Also have to consider there are two camps here - fit, firm and buff, and body builders. Different looks altogether.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Also have to consider there are two camps here - fit, firm and buff, and body builders. Different looks altogether.

There was a fascinating series of photographs of athletes, showing how different "fit" can look in different sports, and even for different people within the same sport:

https://www.boredpanda.com/athlete-body-types-comparison-howard-schatz/

 

[tenyari]

To the possible question the title itself poses, since I myself don't have a list of sample stories as so many others here do...

I think the answer might be yes.

But it goes way beyond just that.

There are two ways to look at this - any story that focuses on these physical characteristics enough to be searchable based on them is likely to be fetishizing them.

But it's also true to say that in stories that are NOT seeming to be fetish based, you can usually find that they in fact are - but a very predictably repetitive fetish.

The amount of times I have read a story where anywhere from one to all of the females are blond, busty (cup size floating over her head like a video game character), 18-20, blue eyes, pale, and basically a WWII era German's wet-dream... is just... boring.

And they usually have names that I would get if I did a google search on 'popular names for white girls on spring break'...

That basically is THE FETISH of an absurd number of stories. And before one rolls their eyes too much at the writers, look at their ratings and view counts...

Deviate away from busty blonds named Mindy and Candy and no one's gonna read your version of MacBeth, even if it is better than the original.

Even if you otherwise have good character depth, a writer looking for view counts knows it's best to toss in a Bouncing Booby Becky somewhere.

Writers who do deviate from that too much are either going to hard-turn clamp onto some other fetish and ride it like a rodeo competition, or be more muted in how they describe characters so that the reader can visualize Booby Becky somewhere...

It's sad, but yeah.

If you want these muscular women because that IS your fetish, then you're probably better served that someone who just wonders why they aren't finding them - since as I noted people aren't going to tag a story for 'amazon muscle women' unless their writing to a kink for that.

 

[TheRedChamber]

There was a fascinating series of photographs of athletes, showing how different "fit" can look in different sports, and even for different people within the same sport:

https://www.boredpanda.com/athlete-body-types-comparison-howard-schatz/

This is really fascinating. It's probably also interesting that, of the ladies, I only really find the gymnasts and swimmers to have particularly attractive bodies - those sports requiring extreme height, weight or muscle don't really do anything for me (and I suspect I'm not alone), even though I'm not against larger bodies generally, the Olympians seem to extreme.

There are two ways to look at this - any story that focuses on these physical characteristics enough to be searchable based on them is likely to be fetishizing them.

But it's also true to say that in stories that are NOT seeming to be fetish based, you can usually find that they in fact are - but a very predictably repetitive fetish.

The amount of times I have read a story where anywhere from one to all of the females are blond, busty (cup size floating over her head like a video game character), 18-20, blue eyes, pale, and basically a WWII era German's wet-dream... is just... boring.

And they usually have names that I would get if I did a google search on 'popular names for white girls on spring break'...

That basically is THE FETISH of an absurd number of stories. And before one rolls their eyes too much at the writers, look at their ratings and view counts...

Deviate away from busty blonds named Mindy and Candy and no one's gonna read your version of MacBeth, even if it is better than the original.

I remember having a discussion on a forum years ago (can't remember if it was this one or not) - the basic gist was whether 'large boobs' was ever a fetish and the basic idea was that, since men are, on average, programmed to like large breasts it was part of normal sexual attraction and couldn't really be described as a fetish, unless it was taken to a ridiculous Lola Ferrari style level of massiveness and to the exclusion of other characteristics. It's probably fair enough to say the Nazi's had a collective Aryan fetish. But I'd argue that a lot of the stories aren't really fetishizing busty, blonde, blue eyed girls so much as it's very easy to essentially write 'she was the perfect embodiment of the media-approved ideal woman.' It's only when the male MC turns up on the second date with some tinted contact lenses and a bottle of hair dye that it really comes across as a specific fetish.

For writing I think 'fetish' is a bit different from in real life - it's often the unique selling point of whatever story - so a story that takes place exclusively in a gym and features a muscle-bound woman/women is going to feel like a fetish story (even if it's in a different catagory). But fetishes can also be about types of sexual activities or about the MCs own body or character then you can stack them so a story could have 'muscle woman', 'bondage', 'small penis humiliation', 'outdoor sex', 'group sex' etc. The problem is the more you have the more you narrow down your prospective audience, so it's very easy to just to cop out and go with the standard beauty or as you say, leave descriptions deliberately vague.

 

[lovecraft68]

I did a search and found 122 stories that use "muscular women" as a title or text and 89 stories that use it as a tag. So there is some precedent, and there is some audience. Fetish appears to be the most popular category, and some of the stories have done quite well.

Go for it.

Fetish is the fit for anything that strays from the porn norm in both activity and appearance. Its a fun category with the kind of open minded readership I expected to be across the board when I started here...I was wrong.

 

[SimonDoom]

This is really fascinating. It's probably also interesting that, of the ladies, I only really find the gymnasts and swimmers to have particularly attractive bodies - those sports requiring extreme height, weight or muscle don't really do anything for me (and I suspect I'm not alone), even though I'm not against larger bodies generally, the Olympians seem to extreme.



I remember having a discussion on a forum years ago (can't remember if it was this one or not) - the basic gist was whether 'large boobs' was ever a fetish and the basic idea was that, since men are, on average, programmed to like large breasts it was part of normal sexual attraction and couldn't really be described as a fetish, unless it was taken to a ridiculous Lola Ferrari style level of massiveness and to the exclusion of other characteristics. It's probably fair enough to say the Nazi's had a collective Aryan fetish. But I'd argue that a lot of the stories aren't really fetishizing busty, blonde, blue eyed girls so much as it's very easy to essentially write 'she was the perfect embodiment of the media-approved ideal woman.' It's only when the male MC turns up on the second date with some tinted contact lenses and a bottle of hair dye that it really comes across as a specific fetish.

For writing I think 'fetish' is a bit different from in real life - it's often the unique selling point of whatever story - so a story that takes place exclusively in a gym and features a muscle-bound woman/women is going to feel like a fetish story (even if it's in a different catagory). But fetishes can also be about types of sexual activities or about the MCs own body or character then you can stack them so a story could have 'muscle woman', 'bondage', 'small penis humiliation', 'outdoor sex', 'group sex' etc. The problem is the more you have the more you narrow down your prospective audience, so it's very easy to just to cop out and go with the standard beauty or as you say, leave descriptions deliberately vague.

In 2008 a stone-carved figurine of a woman was found in a cave in Germany, estimated to be 35,000 years old. Its curves are highly exaggerated. It seems reasonably safe to me, based on the evidence, that the male obsession, or fetish, if you will, regarding female curves goes back a long way.

That's not to say it's every man's ideal. I'm a runner, and I find women with runners' physiques sexy, too.

"Fetish" means different things to different people, but to me it means putting a heightened emphasis on something, or exaggerating it, in a way that stimulates an erotic effect. Noting a woman's curvy body in a story isn't especially fetishistic, but going out of one's way to emphasize the size and shape and appearance of a woman's breasts, or her muscles, or her hair, or her feet, could be.

For me, personally, I like a certain element of exaggeration in an erotic story--pushing the envelope, in one way or another. The trick is to balance the exaggeration with just enough realism. Everybody strikes that balance in a different way, and what I've found over time is that my ideal balance isn't always the same as others, and I sometimes have readers who tell me, "This was too much. You lost me." I don't sweat that much anymore, because I enjoy writing the balance that I strike, and I have readers who like that balance as well. I write for myself and for them, not for my critics.

My advice for erotic authors is to take the leap and indulge your kinks and fantasies and see what happens. If you're into muscled women, write about muscled women.

 

[jsmiam]

If the body type is incidental and irrelevant, you hypothetically could leave it off altogether. You could let each readers imagination make the character attractive to them in their own mind. Nothing wrong with that.

But. Sounds like that’s not the case, and nothing wrong with that either. So mention muscles etc. in your title and subtitle/caption/description, etc.

Additionally you could add author’s notes at the top of the body of the story, which also help. A person who’s into it will be brimming with anticipation, and you’ll have given people who don’t like the topic plenty of advance notification and opportunity to back out of it.

It’s your story, write what you want.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The bell curve has a place here. Just as the average woman finds height, a deep voice, narrow waist and broad shoulders attractive physical attributes in men, the most popular standard of female beauty or desirability currently involves youth, a 1 / 0.7 / 1 bust/waist/hips ratio, higher voice, etc. That certainly doesn't mean that those outside that norm aren't attractive, but it does mean that the further ones strays from that, the less desirable the average person (in the context of this discussion, the average Literotica reader) will find the individual in question.

Rule 34 of course applies. Some people are going to find extreme muscular development in women a turn-on in and of itself, in the same way that others might find gross obesity, albinism or missing limbs sexually exciting. If the focus is on that factor, then it is probably fetish. No judgement and have fun, but it's not the norm.

On the other hand, if the story is crafted around a woman with a pretty normal life, views, hopes, etc, one with the usual boyfriend problems, one with a job, etc etc, but one who happens to body-build as a hobby, then it could very easily fit in Romance or Erotic Couplings or whatever.

As an example of this, in Sci-Fi, consider Larry Niven's 'Man-Kzin Wars' series. One of the female characters in that is Carlita, a very normal human woman with normal emotions, desires, etc, but who just happens to be from a planet called Jynx, one with gravity much higher than Earth. Growing up under heavy gravity, Jynxians are shorter than the human norm, more stocky and incredibly strong. The thing is, Carlita isn't at all freakish because her strength was just one part of her persona.

 

[MrPixel]

This is really fascinating. It's probably also interesting that, of the ladies, I only really find the gymnasts and swimmers to have particularly attractive bodies - those sports requiring extreme height, weight or muscle don't really do anything for me (and I suspect I'm not alone), even though I'm not against larger bodies generally, the Olympians seem too extreme.

I agree with this. Especially the "fascinating" part. Nearly all - both sexes - seem to have worked their musculature and fat distribution (when present!) to a degree so specific to their pursuit that current societal aesthetic ideals are summarily tossed out the window. I frankly can't get past that tiny Tara Lipiniski: 1) is so tiny, and 2) has no shape whatsoever. Startling, really. Her power-to-weight ratio has to be off the charts.

Omitted from this study are professional dancers, especially classic ballet. Just because it isn't an Olympic sport doesn't mean there isn't extreme athleticism involved. Typical attributes for females are shapely, muscular legs, firm rounded glutes, thin and long waists, and modest breasts. Guys have the legs and butts, thin waists and broad shoulders. With both, nothing is especially overemphasized because it would create balance challenges. As you cite, gymnasts and swimmers come close, but the current science-enhanced workout routines for both are starting to show in a trend away from balanced (in my view) body shapes, and near-total elimination of body fat, which softens the angular intersections of muscle groups.

 

[TheRedChamber]

I agree with this. Especially the "fascinating" part. Nearly all - both sexes - seem to have worked their musculature and fat distribution (when present!) to a degree so specific to their pursuit that current societal aesthetic ideals are summarily tossed out the window. I frankly can't get past that tiny Tara Lipiniski: 1) is so tiny, and 2) has no shape whatsoever. Startling, really. Her power-to-weight ratio has to be off the charts.

I looked at the Tara Lipiniski picture for a while before deciding it must just be a bad editing job - she's only listed as being a foot smaller than the hockey player next to her but her mouth only reaches his navel. I thought it might be connected with the fact that both of the guys next to her are wearing skiis/skates, but even so it doesn't add up visually.

For me it's the marathon runners (both male and female) that took me a while to get my head around - I guess the physics work out, weigh as little as possible so you don't require as much energy to move and then store only that amount of extra fat you need to completel the next race without collapsing.

Omitted from this study are professional dancers, especially classic ballet. Just because it isn't an Olympic sport doesn't mean there isn't extreme athleticism involved. Typical attributes for females are shapely, muscular legs, firm rounded glutes, thin and long waists, and modest breasts. Guys have the legs and butts, thin waists and broad shoulders. With both, nothing is especially overemphasized because it would create balance challenges. As you cite, gymnasts and swimmers come close, but the current science-enhanced workout routines for both are starting to show in a trend away from balanced (in my view) body shapes, and near-total elimination of body fat, which softens the angular intersections of muscle groups.

Ballet dancers are also generally expected to be beautiful as well as athletic, so even if more extreme body types were better for it, there'd still be pressure to keep 'balance'. (I'm not disagreeing with your point)

 

[NotWise]

Ballet dancers are also generally expected to be beautiful as well as athletic, so even if more extreme body types were better for it, there'd still be pressure to keep 'balance'. (I'm not disagreeing with your point)

Different directors, different choreographers will go for slightly different types. I've never heard of 'balance' being a factor in choosing body type. Height and hair color, yes. Body type and condition can vary a lot among students and amateur dancers, but at a professional level it might be difficult for dancers to stray very far from the stereotype.
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That's because of the extreme demands on their bodies imposed by classical ballet. I've written two stories with ballet dancers as main characters ("Valentine's for Cinderella" and "Watch Me!"), and as Mel said in the first of those, “. . . between classes, rehearsals and performances I work out at least six hours a day, five or six days a week most of the time. It’s what I do for a living.”

My youngest daughter danced professionally for more than six years. The wear-and-tear on her joints was part of the reason she moved on, but in season she was incredible to look at.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

One of the saddest mistakes in going to the ballet, in my experience, is getting a front-row seat. The dancers are immensely-talented athletes engaged in hard physical work. Instead of marvelling at the dancers floating gracefully and drifting lightly, one is immediately made aware of the illusion-murdering reality of the thumps of landing feet, panting breathing and the odor of sweat.

Far better for the viewer to sit further back, where distance allows the illusion to survive.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I have a tale about a college girl who plays softball. She's bisexual and a hardbody type. While she doesn't have bulging muscles, she's not what is typical of the male ideal: small breasts, hard muscles, and the kind of person who takes what she wants. While I have written several stories with her, I have published only one. I got pushback from one reader that he didn't like her or the other woman in the story. He said to enjoy a story. He had to like a person in the story to enjoy it. I suggest he, not noir then. LOL

I do like Terri, you see, she's based on my wife, Jo.

The story in question is Tomboy: Terri Hits a Homer

 

[MillieDynamite]

One of the saddest mistakes in going to the ballet, in my experience, is getting a front-row seat. The dancers are immensely-talented athletes engaged in hard physical work. Instead of marvelling at the dancers floating gracefully and drifting lightly, one is immediately made aware of the illusion-murdering reality of the thumps of landing feet, panting breathing and the odor of sweat.

Far better for the viewer to sit further back, where distance allows the illusion to survive.

Well, I love seeing a hard-bodied woman working out. The panting, the aroma of sweat and sex, I find appealing. Don't tell me when you are making love. You can't smell the sweat of her efforts be turned off, can you?

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Well, I love seeing a hard-bodied woman working out. The panting, the aroma of sweat and sex, I find appealing. Don't tell me when you are making love. You can't smell the sweat of her efforts be turned off, can you?

Different list, Millie. Thumping and panting is great in bed, not so much in ballet. Ballet is supposed to create the illusion of weightless grace.

 

[KatieTay]

Oh. hello! Thanks for the mention @Bramblethorn !
It's been years since I came onto this forum. Glad you like my stories, OP! @big9johnson

 

[Handley_Page]

Hello Lit authors community,


I have questions about women with muscles. I have read a lot of stories on Lit and most not all have been a stereo type slim woman with big boobs. Now I've read some with plus size woman. It feels as if there are some niche stuff for woman that don't fit the norm on here. Muscle or fitness model types in my opinion is a very sexy type of woman. I see them all over social media with many followers but barely find anything on here. Now maybe my search skills need some improving or they are not tagged well. I am not screaming for some affirmitive action type of equal time for all types of women or box checking. Can anyone recommend authors who have written about this niche of women? Also can I request some more of this type of woman be written about.


Thanks for listening to my questions and request.

See "Karen Black" by markelly. It's in 2 parts)
for what I think is the sort of thing you have in mind.
(https://classic.literotica.com/s/karen-black-ch-01)