Author tantrums

[AwkwardlySet]

Warnings (and appropriate tags) are not just fine, they are necessary. Ironically, they are more important for readers than for authors.

Tantrums are also not a big deal and they are to be expected. It takes (a long) time to get to know and actually understand how this place works. It takes time to adjust and to know what to expect. I imagine that all of us started with a different image of Literotica compared to the one we have now. It's all perfectly normal, but yeah, as others mentioned, having a thick skin helps a lot.

 

[SamBomb]

Saying what is involved seems cool, saying don't read it if offends you or you can't handle makes you sound like a dick.

 

[intim8]

I will say that the louder the departure, the smaller the chances that they'll actually stay gone.

Putting so much energy into announcing that you don't care is a tell.

 

[SimonDoom]

Warnings (and appropriate tags) are not just fine, they are necessary. Ironically, they are more important for readers than for authors.

I wouldn't go quite that far. I try to use tags effectively but I almost never include warnings.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I wouldn't go quite that far. I try to use tags effectively but I almost never include warnings.

I navigate by tags most of the time so yeah, they are enough for me, but I believe many readers (and some authors) don't give enough importance to tags. For authors, it's always good not to get that "cuck shit!" comment or an angry and undeserved 1* just because some reader didn't pay attention to tags that they detest.
I also believe that warnings and tags are even more important for readers because it gives them the means to avoid stories that are unlikely to interest them. With Literotica's output of 150+ stories each day on average, being able to sift efficiently through such a massive amount of new (and old) content is of great importance, in my opinion.
So yeah, I deem tags and warnings necessary. Well, anything that helps one to navigate through so much content that is unsorted by length and quality is important in this case. Every little bit helps.

 

[SimonDoom]

I navigate by tags most of the time so yeah, they are enough for me, but I believe many readers (and some authors) don't give enough importance to tags. For authors, it's always good not to get that "cuck shit!" comment or an angry and undeserved 1* just because some reader didn't pay attention to tags that they detest.
I also believe that warnings and tags are even more important for readers because it gives them the means to avoid stories that are unlikely to interest them. With Literotica's output of 150+ stories each day on average, being able to sift efficiently through such a massive amount of new (and old) content is of great importance, in my opinion.
So yeah, I deem tags and warnings necessary. Well, anything that helps one to navigate through so much content that is unsorted by length and quality is important in this case. Every little bit helps.

I write with myself in mind as a reader. I don't value disclaimers and warnings and too much information at the beginning of a story as a reader, so I don't use them as an author. Different strokes.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I practically always put that disclaimer in my stories. Because otherwise Anonymous complains that the girl is smoking/peeing/drunk?

Just how jam-packed epic is your story that you can't just add 'smoke, pee, drunk' to the tags?

I navigate by tags most of the time so yeah, they are enough for me, but I believe many readers (and some authors) don't give enough importance to tags. For authors, it's always good not to get that "cuck shit!" comment or an angry and undeserved 1* just because some reader didn't pay attention to tags that they detest.
I also believe that warnings and tags are even more important for readers because it gives them the means to avoid stories that are unlikely to interest them.

No, if a reader is determined to avoid certain things and is too lazy to make one extra click to check the tags for gay or pee or cuckold or whatever, that's on him. He is not owed an extra warning. So the real reason for the warning is to protect the score, and if the score means that much to you, then it's about you and not the reader. Not a great way to introduce yourself to the reader. As I stated above ...

3 ~ It tells the reader "I don't care about what you get out of this. This is about me and what you think of me and if you're not willing to affirm my writing experience, just move along. You're no good to me"

The writing experience is merely the means to creating a reading experience. If one announces off the top that the reading experience was a lower priority, why should we read something potentially so self-serving? It may not be the message that one intends to send, but that is the vibe whether you realize it or not, and many readers do pick up on that.

Everybody hopes that readers will enjoy their stories at least to some degree, but a warning comes from a desire for readers to not not-enjoy it. It's very defensive writing and it tells us that the writer was writing scared. The best stuff is written fearless. This doesn't mean that the story will be bad (but often it is), but it really starts off on a bad foot. Often a story with a warning will be written with shame for its own kinks and/or depravity once you read it through. The warning can be a really good way to tell that. I could provide links but I'm not about to shame anyone.

 

[forgotmyantidepressants]

Learning how to accept criticism is a skill unto itself. Like all skills, it takes practice.

 

[Bazzle]

Just how jam-packed epic is your story that you can't just add 'smoke, pee, drunk' to the tags?

If you come at the story from the "new" list you have to open it to see the story and get the tags?

 

[SookieHaze7]

Meh. My first work here was a silly story about a wife who has sex with Santa Clause. I put it in the LW section since that made sense even though I could've put it in fantasy since she was having sex with a fictional magical creature. I was honestly surprised at some of the reaction to such an innocuous story on a website that is dedicated to erotica.

I've been a reader on this site for almost as long as it has existed, but I never once read the comments section before I began submitting works last December. The anonymous attacks, both on my story and the ad homs, were mostly petty and sometimes irrational. Fortunately, there were more than enough positive comments to balance them out.

Maybe it's because I'm a successful writer outside of Lite, but I don't base my self-esteem on what anonymous strangers say on the internet. I saw no reason to throw a fit over it. When people strike out like that, they're usually in pain or feel powerless in their real life. I'm certainly not going to get my panties in a bunch over that. Honestly, I feel as sorry for them as I do for the authors like the one mentioned in the OP.

I also received some negative comments on that Santa story that weren't anonymous, but I took those seriously. Even though user names are basically anonymous too, using them shows that you're willing to stand by your comments, and I respect that. While I truly appreciate the support of people who like my works, I seek out the ones that might help me improve my writing. I read the comments for feedback, and that means taking the good with the bad.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

I write with myself in mind as a reader. I don't value disclaimers and warnings and too much information at the beginning of a story as a reader, so I don't use them as an author. Different strokes.

I am sure you know how unlikely it is that you are anywhere near being the average reader.

No, if a reader is determined to avoid certain things and is too lazy to make one extra click to check the tags for gay or pee or cuckold or whatever, that's on him. He is not owed an extra warning. So the real reason for the warning is to protect the score, and if the score means that much to you, then it's about you and not the reader. Not a great way to introduce yourself to the reader. As I stated above ...

You keep insisting on this theory of yours.
I don't think that giving warnings is just about protecting scores. It's useful for readers as well if you just put in a warning such as "This story has abundant watersports content." Tags aren't enough sometimes because they can't convey how much of a certain content a story has. For example, I don't mind reading a story with minor gay male or bisexual content as long as the story is interesting, or as long as it contains some other themes that I like. But if there is a considerable amount of such content then I have no interest in reading such a story. Literotica tags have nothing in them that marks them as major or minor.

But for the sake of the argument, let's say that it's just about protecting scores. Whether one likes it or not, scores are important here. They are one of the major parameters by which readers sift through stories on this website. Having a good score increases the likelihood of a reader clicking on my story and giving my story a proper chance rather than abandoning it at the first spot they dislike. You can claim that people who care about scores just want to stroke their egos as much as you want, but there are objective reasons for caring about them.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

If you come at the story from the "new" list you have to open it to see the story and get the tags?

Exactly. You have to open the story in both cases. Warnings are just another means to an end.

 

[Melody_Lightdraft2]

I just came across this hissy-fit author profile, for 'Coopser':

"Binned this site off. It’s absolute dogshit. I’ll leave votes and comments on for the trolls to feel good about themselves lol
Write and rant whatever you want. I’ll never read it."

Coopser's five stories (all written in 2023) scored pretty well (all in the 4s), but three of them were posted in Loving Wives... perhaps not the kindest place to learn your skills? Anyway, I'm not here to give him a kicking despite his invitation, but just to ask if there have been any epic tantrums/departures over the years that eclipse this?

The art of critique is a fine line, point in question my error over POV, (I should have run the story through AutoCrit, that would have highlighted it.) But as a serious author you have to gave as well as take. Four years of creative writing classes have helped, you have to learn from your mistakes.

 

[SimonDoom]

I am sure you know how unlikely it is that you are anywhere near being the average reader.

Probably. But I don't care. I have enough appreciative readers that what I'm doing seems to be working.

I've had some readers over time who complained about twists in the story, but I don't look back on it and wish that I'd warned everybody about the twist. That would take away the fun of surprise, one of the pleasures of reading.

 

[Plathfan]

Four years of creative writing classes

You could've earned a PhD in comparative literature in that time.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

If you come at the story from the "new" list you have to open it to see the story and get the tags?

Yes, you do. Shortcoming of the site but so what? I addressed this in my post already. If you need to hold the hand of lazy readers to make sure that they AVOID your story, you do you. What you are saying is "Here is my story. If you judge it as good, go ahead and judge me, but if you judge it as bad, go away." And therefore what you are telling the reader is that you are afraid that there might be something judged as bad in it, so there probably is. Such a lack of confidence in one;s work is not good advertising.

Don't be a scaredy-cat. Tell me why I should read this, not why I shouldn't.

 

[SimonDoom]

Yes, you do. Shortcoming of the site but so what? I addressed this in my post already. If you need to hold the hand of lazy readers to make sure that they AVOID your story, you do you. What you are saying is "Here is my story. If you judge it as good, go ahead and judge me, but if you judge it as bad, go away." And therefore what you are telling the reader is that you are afraid that there might be something judged as bad in it, so there probably is. Such a lack of confidence in one;s work is not good advertising.

Don't be a scaredy-cat. Tell me why I should read this, not why I shouldn't.

I kind of agree that when you publish a story you are releasing the story to the world, giving up control, and there's something a little unseemly about trying to shape and control your readership so you get only positive feedback. Accept that some won't like it. They don't have to. They're under no obligation to you to skip your story and not give it the negative review they think it deserves.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I don't think that giving warnings is just about protecting scores.

It largely is, yes. Just that, protecting scores. The rest of the reason is avoiding criticsim.

 

[Erozetta]

I think the only disclaimers I've used involved a warning of domestic violence, suicide, and mutually enjoyed pain infliction. Don't think I told them to click back, just an "If you're sensitive to these things, proceed with caution."

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I kind of agree that when you publish a story you are releasing the story to the world, giving up control, and there's something a little unseemly about trying to shape and control your readership so you get only positive feedback.

I think that what's really happening here is a disconnect between the writing experience and the reading experience and it takes a while for any writer to understand the zen of this, no matter what level they are at. I'm sure that there are some classic writers in history who never really grasped it themselves.

The writing experience is a wonderful thing. It's a joy, a high, but what really needs to be understood is that it is only a means to an end, that end being creating a reading experience. I feel that most writers (usually unwittingly) become indulgent in the writing experience and truly want to share the joy of their personal writing experience. And as genuinely well-intentioned as that may be, it's not really possible. Only the author can experience the writing experience (of a particular story) and that experience ends when the submit button is clicked.

The relationship between the writing experience and the reading experience is a handshake, and once those hands shake, it's all about the reading. The writing experience ends but it's the reading experience that lasts forever. How your work is interpreted is how it will stand the test of time. You can't change that. To attempt to is vain. The writer rarely realizes this (in these cases that we see on lit) but it is absolutely true. So we see all these writers trying to manipulate the reading experience by telling the reader how to read the piece - or to not read it at all, but you can't because only the writing experience itself creates the reading experience. One cannot separate the disclaimer from the story. The reader opens it up and the first thing that they read is "you might not enjoy this." If the writer doesn't have full confidence in what he wrote, why should the reader bother to read? It's a really bad signal to send.

You see, writing is explaining. The story explains what happened. The reader wants to find out what happened. The writer explains this in a story. if one tries to explain what is about o be read or how to read a particular piece, what one is saying is that the story doesn't explain it well enough. If writing is in effect explaining, and it's not explained well enough, then logically we may say that it is not written well enough. So when a story starts with a content disclaimer "this story contains xyz, and these certain things are going to happen so bear that in mind, blahblah," or "this story is only for people who like xyz, the rest of you buzz off," not only is it quite snobby, it also admits to the reader before anything even begins that it may contain flaws. Now, nobody's perfect and no story is flawless, but this does not excite the reader at all. And what are we supposed to do with our opening paragraphs? Excite, and grab the reader, entice them to continue. These disclaimers do the exact opposite. They dissuade people from reading.

 

[StillStunned]

I think that what's really happening here is a disconnect between the writing experience and the reading experience and it takes a while for any writer to understand the zen of this, no matter what level they are at. I'm sure that there are some classic writers in history who never really grasped it themselves.

The writing experience is a wonderful thing. It's a joy, a high, but what really needs to be understood is that it is only a means to an end, that end being creating a reading experience. I feel that most writers (usually unwittingly) become indulgent in the writing experience and truly want to share the joy of their personal writing experience. And as genuinely well-intentioned as that may be, it's not really possible. Only the author can experience the writing experience (of a particular story) and that experience ends when the submit button is clicked.

The relationship between the writing experience and the reading experience is a handshake, and once those hands shake, it's all about the reading. The writing experience ends but it's the reading experience that lasts forever. How your work is interpreted is how it will stand the test of time. You can't change that. To attempt to is vain. The writer rarely realizes this (in these cases that we see on lit) but it is absolutely true. So we see all these writers trying to manipulate the reading experience by telling the reader how to read the piece - or to not read it at all, but you can't because only the writing experience itself creates the reading experience. One cannot separate the disclaimer from the story. The reader opens it up and the first thing that they read is "you might not enjoy this." If the writer doesn't have full confidence in what he wrote, why should the reader bother to read? It's a really bad signal to send.

You see, writing is explaining. The story explains what happened. The reader wants to find out what happened. The writer explains this in a story. if one tries to explain what is about o be read or how to read a particular piece, what one is saying is that the story doesn't explain it well enough. If writing is in effect explaining, and it's not explained well enough, then logically we may say that it is not written well enough. So when a story starts with a content disclaimer "this story contains xyz, and these certain things are going to happen so bear that in mind, blahblah," or "this story is only for people who like xyz, the rest of you buzz off," not only is it quite snobby, it also admits to the reader before anything even begins that it may contain flaws. Now, nobody's perfect and no story is flawless, but this does not excite the reader at all. And what are we supposed to do with our opening paragraphs? Excite, and grab the reader, entice them to continue. These disclaimers do the exact opposite. They dissuade people from reading.

I disagree with you a lot, but I think you're absolutely right here.

 

[SimonDoom]

These disclaimers do the exact opposite. They dissuade people from reading.

I think doing it the right way, as SamBomb described above, is fine. Just don't tell your reader what to do.

 

[Bazzle]

It largely is, yes. Just that, protecting scores. The rest of the reason is avoiding criticsim.

Actually...I'm never avoiding criticism of my work for the lack of writing skills.
I've given it to all the reviewers on here.
I don't want criticism of the content because it's not their kink?
I publish in Fetish which is so broad it could literally cover toes to fingers and everything in between. That's why I put warnings on?

 

[Katie_Mae]

Tags advertise what a story is and why you might way to read it. Content warnings warn people away from content they may find upsetting or whatever and thus may not want to read.
Even if you want to use tags as a warning against, you can't always, some tags are banned and adding them will have the tag removed on publishing. I think death is one of those, because death is allowed, but erotic death (snuff) isn't.
Film and TV have been using content warnings a long time, not sure that writing should be much different.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Film and TV have been using content warnings a long time, not sure that writing should be much different.

TV does this for the exact same reasons that writers do here: to keep away the hate mail.