Author tantrums

[Euphony]

Or maybe it's simply being polite????
Offering a warning, knowing that the content may irritate some of the readers....
I see it less of a tantrum, and more as. "If you're not into this kink. Don't read it."

Cagivagurl

It's usually about the tone.

Combative (like earlier example) suggests things about an author while a more "friendly reminder/make use of the tags to be sure you have a pleasant time" says something completely different.

I don't want readers squicked for their own sake and as not to introduce noise into already fragile feedback data here.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Combative (like earlier example) suggests things about an author while a more "friendly reminder/make use of the tags to be sure you have a pleasant time" says something completely different.

But it still takes away from the story no matter the tone.

We all lament the fact that lit does not give us the best tools to advertise here. We only get 35 characters for title, 60 for blurb and ten tags. But if a reader can't tell by category, title, description and tags generally what he's in for, how much coddling does he need?

I know what the ultimate argument is: "I have a 30k word story with multiple characters kinks and scenes and somewhere around the 19k mark I snuck in two gay men kissing and I just don't have enough description and tag space to warn that so that no one gets that far, nopes out and 1-bombs me." Well, your story is going to get 10k hits say, and of those it will get say 50 votes, and of those 50 votes 2 or 3 will no doubt go no-homo on you, skip to the end and score you a 1. Who cares? Not only does a warning in this case blatantly try to protect the score, but for such little pushback I can argue that it's actually paranoid about a bad score. A couple of 1s. Who cares?

On top of that, the majority who did read to the end and enjoyed your story, you actually spoiled that scene for them which downgraded their overall reading experience that little bit. The disclaimer penalizes the readers who actually like the work because of some paranoia over a handful of wet noodles who might not. Gotta keep that score up, dammit.

Which is proved by ...

I don't want readers squicked for their own sake and as not to introduce noise into already fragile feedback data here.

The disclaimer protects the score. Plain and simple.

 

[Plathfan]

The poor thread quickly derailed from "author tantrums" to "author's notes."

They really like their disclaimers...

 

[NoTalentHack]

TV does this for the exact same reasons that writers do here: to keep away the hate mail.

Except that we don’t. Not all of us, anyways. For me, it's about basic empathy for my readers.

Look, if I cared overmuch about my scores or receiving nasty comments, I wouldn’t have 30-odd stories in Loving Wives, and/or I wouldn’t post my non-LW stories on the same account. I’m not saying don’t put a little value on scores; they’re a fun bit of bragging rights, after all. But there are SO many different reasons for a score to go up or down that, unless there’s a huge variance e between how I thought a story would rate and how it actually did, I don’t concern myself much about them.

What I do concern myself with is not wasting my readers’ time or exposing them to something they might find personally offensive or harmful.

I think hard about what category to post in. I use all 10 tags every time, both to attract potential readers and wave off the ones that want to avoid certain types of content. I’ll post a content warning at the top in the case of particularly upsetting material, e.g. suicide, raceplay, etc. And, yes, I sometimes warn potential readers that are following me from LW that this story is in a different category, because I want them to not stumble into a bad time for them just because they’re following me.

Some examples:

AI Era: Medusa’s Daughter:

For the people following me from... basically anything else I've ever written, this is a wild divergence. It's in Mind Control, but it could easily have gone in Erotic Horror instead. Check the tags. You have been warned.

Grace Restored:

For the people following me from Loving Wives, this story is in NonConsent/Reluctance, and it's there for a reason. You have been warned. But it's still one of my stories. Which... again, you have been warned.

In Vitro Veritas:

If you're following me from my stories in Loving Wives, please be aware that this story is in the Fetish category and set your expectations accordingly. It has some similar themes to a few other stories I've written, but is more extreme in content.

CW: Cuckqueaning, Breeding, Infertility, Humiliation

The Last Snowfall:

CW: Depression, suicide

If you are depressed, suicidal, or are worried that you may hurt yourself, please do not read this story.

This world is better with you in it. If you need to talk to someone, please call the National Suicide Prevention Helpline at 800-273-TALK.

Under Penalty of Law:

For the folks looking for my usual angstfests, this ain't one of them. It's just a silly, sweet little bit of smut. Don't worry, I'll be back to the misery mines soon!

CW: mild raceplay

In each case, other than The Last Snowfall, I’m not saying “don’t read if this might bother you,” I’m saying "be aware, if you’re deciding what you want to read.” To me, that’s no different from picking the right category, putting appropriate tags on, and setting a description.

And if it's supposed to save my scores? LOL no. Of the two of those stories I've posted on another site, they both got Recommended Reads from the staff there and plenty of favorites. Here? Low 4s, baby, in the case of all five stories.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Some authors want to maximise their scores. Some authors want prospective readers to have a good time, including helping them avoid reading stories that they'll just regret reading.

Both of those lead to much the same course of action, but it seems unkind to assume the former is the only possible motivation for that action.

I wrote a story about seeing a loved one slowly dying, because I had things I wanted to say about that situation. I figured some readers would also appreciate that story, but it's also very obviously the kind of thing that would be upsetting for some. I don't want to be the asshole who ruined somebody's day because My Precious Words Are For Everybody.

Yes, tags exist, but so does the concept of UX. For warning purposes, tags are slightly better than sticking a warning in a filing cabinet in a disused lavatory behind a sign that says "beware of the leopard", but not enough so that I'm willing to wash my hands of it.

Did that warning help my score? Almost certainly. Was that why I included it? Absolutely not.

 

[MyBareTorso]

I haven't come across any, but I've been tempted to write my own a few times.

You're not alone!

 

[MyBareTorso]

Except that we don’t. Not all of us, anyways. For me, it's about basic empathy for my readers.

Look, if I cared overmuch about my scores or receiving nasty comments, I wouldn’t have 30-odd stories in Loving Wives, and/or I wouldn’t post my non-LW stories on the same account. I’m not saying don’t put a little value on scores; they’re a fun bit of bragging rights, after all. But there are SO many different reasons for a score to go up or down that, unless there’s a huge variance e between how I thought a story would rate and how it actually did, I don’t concern myself much about them.

What I do concern myself with is not wasting my readers’ time or exposing them to something they might find personally offensive or harmful.

I think hard about what category to post in. I use all 10 tags every time, both to attract potential readers and wave off the ones that want to avoid certain types of content. I’ll post a content warning at the top in the case of particularly upsetting material, e.g. suicide, raceplay, etc. And, yes, I sometimes warn potential readers that are following me from LW that this story is in a different category, because I want them to not stumble into a bad time for them just because they’re following me.

Some examples:

AI Era: Medusa’s Daughter:



Grace Restored:



In Vitro Veritas:



The Last Snowfall:



Under Penalty of Law:



In each case, other than The Last Snowfall, I’m not saying “don’t read if this might bother you,” I’m saying "be aware, if you’re deciding what you want to read.” To me, that’s no different from picking the right category, putting appropriate tags on, and setting a description.

And if it's supposed to save my scores? LOL no. Of the two of those stories I've posted on another site, they both got Recommended Reads from the staff there and plenty of favorites. Here? Low 4s, baby, in the case of all five stories.

I really like this approach...I do it too. I know many have railed here against extensive intros/warnings, but I like them as a reader and author. It's good to know a little of what you're in for on Literotica, and I enjoy communicating with the readers in this way. I find it does prompt less negative feedback brought on by distaste or disappointment. Just my thoughts...

 

[ElectricBlue]

I can recall a couple, but naming them would just create drama.

I will say that the louder the departure, the smaller the chances that they'll actually stay gone.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Actingup]

Warnings are fine, even if I don't think they actually work that often. I've put them at the top of my non-LW content that my regular readers might find unpleasant and had them blatantly ignored, to the point where I said "This is not in LW," and had commenters say, "it's great to see a story like this in LW!" before.

What I think doesn't work is the tantrum-y, trolling warning + insult. "This story contains cuckolding content," is fine; some readers will still 1-bomb it and insult, but that's the nature of the site. "This story contains cuckolding content, and if you can't handle that, it's not my fault you're a weak-minded pussy that can't handle strong women," is 100% going to get people piling on who'd otherwise skip past.

The profile listed by OP is someone who, glancing through their stories, received a good rating on their hotwife story in E/V, did one in Loving Wives with just a skosh of humiliation/not-quite-gay content (which did remarkably well at 4.56 for a hotwife story), then decided he could get away with the full-on disrespect content he'd edged towards previously (breaking agreed-upon rules, insulting the husband, etc.), and got his wrist slapped for his troubles. Instead of dealing with the lower rating on that story (still a 4.14, a perfectly acceptable one) and the people who told him they didn't like the content/him for writing it, and getting a worse rating on the following one, he threw a fit.

I was listening to an audiobook on publishing last week, and one chapter in it was about the mindset needed to succeed as a writer. The number one thing the speaker discussed was being able to let criticism that's about the reader and not about your work roll off your back. If they're complaining about a structural thing that doesn't work, or maybe a clumsy metaphor or sentence construction, sure, that's worth paying attention to. But "I hate *insert genre/theme here* stuff" is all about them, not you, and you need to treat it as such.

Look, we all laugh at the guy with the raging fixation about shaved pussies, for example, because that's a "him" thing; if you're secure in your abilities and yourself, laughing off the folks who don't like any of your preferences needs to be just as easy. Flouncing with a "pithy" insult, or, worse, continually ranting on the forums that anyone who doesn't like the type of content you do is a misogynist or a weak man is just... sad. Like, beyond fragile. Don't do that shit.

I agree with this 100%. I had a look through the stories in the profile, and to be honest I was surprised at how highly they scored - he obviously connected with a lot of the themes that the audience was looking for, even if the writing was pretty ordinary. But that's a minor issue - his reaction on picked up on a few things suddenly becomes the narrative (cough... which I guess is what I'm doing).

 

[Actingup]

Meh. My first work here was a silly story about a wife who has sex with Santa Clause. I put it in the LW section since that made sense even though I could've put it in fantasy since she was having sex with a fictional magical creature. I was honestly surprised at some of the reaction to such an innocuous story on a website that is dedicated to erotica.

I've been a reader on this site for almost as long as it has existed, but I never once read the comments section before I began submitting works last December. The anonymous attacks, both on my story and the ad homs, were mostly petty and sometimes irrational. Fortunately, there were more than enough positive comments to balance them out.

Maybe it's because I'm a successful writer outside of Lite, but I don't base my self-esteem on what anonymous strangers say on the internet. I saw no reason to throw a fit over it. When people strike out like that, they're usually in pain or feel powerless in their real life. I'm certainly not going to get my panties in a bunch over that. Honestly, I feel as sorry for them as I do for the authors like the one mentioned in the OP.

I also received some negative comments on that Santa story that weren't anonymous, but I took those seriously. Even though user names are basically anonymous too, using them shows that you're willing to stand by your comments, and I respect that. While I truly appreciate the support of people who like my works, I seek out the ones that might help me improve my writing. I read the comments for feedback, and that means taking the good with the bad.

It's hilarious that some people got upset over a light-hearted Christmas story like that. I couldn't resist finding (and reading) the story and looking at some of those comments - oh dear! But as you say, enough sensible people jump in to defend to balance them out. It is a bit mean though that something that is imaginative, funny, and well written gets marked down so much because some readers can't cope with it.

 

[Actingup]

The poor thread quickly derailed from "author tantrums" to "author's notes."

They really like their disclaimers...

I'm good with that. I now understand that the author's notes can function as a preemptive tantrum (if done poorly), can moderate and enhance reader expectations and reactions (if done well), and therefore can make the experience better for everybody (the usual case) and reduce the chances of a full-on author explosion later (for misunderstood geniuses).

Also, just want to note this comment from @Erozetta :

I think my tantrum last year was justified.

Kinda sucks to have someone go from being blocked for harassing you in PMs to then harassing you on the board. It got compounded with people saying "It's a porn site, you can't expect any better behavior from the patrons." Which is a sentiment I vehemently disagree with.

The vast majority are adults behaving like adults who *checks notes* are, in fact, perfectly capable of behaving in a respectful manner toward other human beings. The ones who choose not to deserve to be called out for it.

Totally, and thanks for saying this. I don't want to imply that things shouldn't be called out. I also know that calling something a tantrum can be a way of cruelly disenfranchising somebody with a legit issue. The example I quoted at the start of the thread falls on the 'tantrum' side of things for me, but often it will be more subjective or clearly fall on the 'not tantrum' side of things.

 

[SamBomb]

I never once did this, except a note that everyone was 18 in an early story.

I don't see the need. None of this thread has given a great reason to do it.

 

[Erozetta]

Also, just want to note this comment from @Erozetta :


Totally, and thanks for saying this. I don't want to imply that things shouldn't be called out. I also know that calling something a tantrum can be a way of cruelly disenfranchising somebody with a legit issue. The example I quoted at the start of the thread falls on the 'tantrum' side of things for me, but often it will be more subjective or clearly fall on the 'not tantrum' side of things.

I deleted my account, lol. It was a tantrum, and I can freely admit that it was an emotionally charged overreaction. I should've just blocked people. (But the harassment issue let me know that even if you block someone and can't see their posts, they can still see yours and comment on them and you have a constant option to see what the blocked person has said. Block should mean neither of you know of the other's existence until the person who did the blocking unblocks the person again.)

 

[SimonDoom]

Meh. My first work here was a silly story about a wife who has sex with Santa Clause. I put it in the LW section since that made sense even though I could've put it in fantasy since she was having sex with a fictional magical creature. I was honestly surprised at some of the reaction to such an innocuous story on a website that is dedicated to erotica.

I've been a reader on this site for almost as long as it has existed, but I never once read the comments section before I began submitting works last December. The anonymous attacks, both on my story and the ad homs, were mostly petty and sometimes irrational. Fortunately, there were more than enough positive comments to balance them out.

Maybe it's because I'm a successful writer outside of Lite, but I don't base my self-esteem on what anonymous strangers say on the internet. I saw no reason to throw a fit over it. When people strike out like that, they're usually in pain or feel powerless in their real life. I'm certainly not going to get my panties in a bunch over that. Honestly, I feel as sorry for them as I do for the authors like the one mentioned in the OP.

I also received some negative comments on that Santa story that weren't anonymous, but I took those seriously. Even though user names are basically anonymous too, using them shows that you're willing to stand by your comments, and I respect that. While I truly appreciate the support of people who like my works, I seek out the ones that might help me improve my writing. I read the comments for feedback, and that means taking the good with the bad.

I read Actingup's comment on your comment on your story, and I had to check it out. You should wear those insults like a badge of honor. Most of your readers liked the story. It was inventive and fun. And some of the negative comments were so much fun, like this one:

What a great story about a hypocrite who pretends to keep a naughty and nice reward list and flips the magic whore switch and fucks married women for sport. Don't trust a woman with dried jizz overspray and tinsel hanging from her pussy christmas morning.

And this one:

Yet another slut

And of course, this:

It wasn't Santa, it was Satan!

Go forward with your fantasies and don't give two fucks that some people don't share them.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Look, if I cared overmuch about my scores or receiving nasty comments, I wouldn’t have 30-odd stories in Loving Wives, and/or I wouldn’t post my non-LW stories on the same account.

Oh come now, you're heavily on record stating that you post in LW in no small part because you get a "fair shake" from the scores there (I might disagree but these are your own words) and you encourage others to do so. You also have waxed on many many times about how to score well in LW. You of all folks cannot deny that you post in LW in no small part because you score well there, or at least better than most. What was it you called yourself again, 'LW Expert' or something?

Look at me! I'm NTH and I can get Red Hs even in LW! You cannot deny this.

 

[Comshaw]

Warnings at the beginning of a story: I thought about doing this after getting a few nasty comments on a story or two, but then it hit me that those people are going to complain anyway so I'm wasting my time and energy trying to let them know they won't like my story.

Tags: Out of the 50 works I have on this site I might have 4 or 5 tags on a couple of stories. I've had some complaints about not tagging a story, but not many. I just don't use them and it hasn't seemed to hurt me much.

Comshaw

 

[NoTalentHack]

Oh come now, you're heavily on record stating that you post in LW in no small part because you get a "fair shake" from the scores there (I might disagree but these are your own words) and you encourage others to do so. You also have waxed on many many times about how to score well in LW. You of all folks cannot deny that you post in LW in no small part because you score well there, or at least better than most. What was it you called yourself again, 'LW Expert' or something?

Look at me! I'm NTH and I can get Red Hs even in LW! You cannot deny this.

Yeah, I do get red Hs there, even with stories that “shouldn’t,” at least by received wisdom here. That’s fun for me, but it’s not a thing I worry too much about; like I said before, bragging rights. I don’t obsess over scores, but for the folks that do, I try to reassure them. People can get red Hs in there, but the fear of not doing so shouldn’t dissuade them. Scores are relatively pointless, outside of contests. People will get a fair shake there, and the lower scores are part of that fair shake.

If I were score-obsessed, I wouldn’t post there at all. I’ve gotten higher scores in a number of different categories, so I know I could score higher elsewhere. Statistics work done by 8letters and others also clearly shows that if scores are what motivate people, LW ain’t the place to go. Could I score higher in there, too? Probably. It’s a bit of a moving target, but I enjoy watching trends in there, not because I care much about scores but because I find the sort of “metagame” interesting, in the same way that I’ll probably never play Hearthstone or Magic at more than a casual level again, but it’s fun keeping up with what’s going on.

I like posting in LW because I enjoy writing the types of marital drama stories that belong there, and I write them even knowing that some of them aren’t going to go over well scorewise. If they score well, great. If they don’t? Eh. I’ll still get tons of great comments and a chance to interact with folks that send feedback. That’s my primary reward, beyond writing the story I wanted to.

So, no. The reason for posting the occasional warning, for me, has nothing to do with ratings and everything to do with showing respect for the people who’ve been kind enough to hit the follow button.

ETA: And it was “Loving Wives SME” (subject matter expert), so not “I’m an expert at writing loving wives stories,” more “I’m an obsessive librarian-type when it comes to LW.”

 

[Cagivagurl]

It's usually about the tone.

Combative (like earlier example) suggests things about an author while a more "friendly reminder/make use of the tags to be sure you have a pleasant time" says something completely different.

I don't want readers squicked for their own sake and as not to introduce noise into already fragile feedback data here.

Sometimes... Tone is interpreted rather than implied. It is one of the things to easily get wrong.
The written word, can be easily misconstrued.

Cagivagurl

 

[madelinemasoch]

But for the sake of the argument, let's say that it's just about protecting scores. Whether one likes it or not, scores are important here. They are one of the major parameters by which readers sift through stories on this website. Having a good score increases the likelihood of a reader clicking on my story and giving my story a proper chance rather than abandoning it at the first spot they dislike. You can claim that people who care about scores just want to stroke their egos as much as you want, but there are objective reasons for caring about them.

Do stories with higher scores generally get more views? Is there data on that? That's the only way we can make heads or tails of this argument.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Do stories with higher scores generally get more views? Is there data on that? That's the only way we can make heads or tails of this argument.

There are too many variables - age of story, category etc.

A random selection of my stories for example:

14 months old, 4.85/356, 35k Views
36 months old, 4.82/488, 97k Views
48 months old, 4.77/212, 16k Views
96 months old, 4.80/372, 57k Views

So: similar scores, vast difference in view counts, over quite different periods. Four different categories, four quite different responses.

 

[Plathfan]

Do stories with higher scores generally get more views? Is there data on that? That's the only way we can make heads or tails of this argument.

What are called "views" are really just clicks, with no way to know how many people actually read the entire piece. A high score can attract more clicks, much like winning a contest or using a clickbait title and description, but sparking curiosity doesn’t guarantee readers will stick around.

A better measure of reader satisfaction might be the ratio of favorites to views or votes to views, along with the number of comments. Occasionally, you’ll come across a piece with a relatively low score but lots of comments, which makes you curious about what all the fuss is about.

If people spent as much time creating as they do tracking stats and reader preferences, we might have a few bestsellers by now, or even a Pulitzer winner.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Do stories with higher scores generally get more views? Is there data on that? That's the only way we can make heads or tails of this argument.

What data do you imagine anyone could have about this? I certainly didn't poll my own readers about whether they chose to read my stories due to high score or for some other reason. These are all impressions, of course, but I would say that they are very valid ones. When I was just a reader I used scores a lot. I really thought they were the measure of quality. And judging by what many other AH members said, judging by what I read from some commenters, and judging by my own experience as an author - when I witnessed a stark rise in daily views whenever any of my stories was in top 5 or 10 of the all-time Hall of Fame list, I'd say that scores are important to many readers.

 

[SimonDoom]

Do stories with higher scores generally get more views? Is there data on that? That's the only way we can make heads or tails of this argument.

I think you can confidently say that, all other things being equal, a story with a higher score will get more views. The problem is, all other things are not equal. There are too many factors.

I disagree with those who focus on "protecting" scores and concentrate too much on scores. Some of my most-viewed stories do NOT have the highest scores. They have other features that attract attention.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

Do stories with higher scores generally get more views? Is there data on that? That's the only way we can make heads or tails of this argument.

My last two stories would seem to counter that point. My first blush is the name and short description on my latest is more engaging than the one prior.

 

[Otto26]

I can understand and sympathize with the impulse to lash back at hurtful commenters. As authors we publish our works here. Readers get to pick and choose from thousands of stories and read them for free. They've put zero effort in and then they leave vicious comments that aren't at all constructive. Unless you're a particularly combative type of author that sort of thing hurts to varying degrees. Think of it as sharing a deep secret with a friend and having them recoil in disgust. And there's nothing the author can do to lash back at the people who were deliberately hurtful.

If they choose to slam the door behind them as they leave then that's fine. And if they come back to try again there's no shame attached. We're all just people trying to do the best we can.