Banned cartoons

[BlackShanglan]

I remember feeling this way about the children's book "Little Black Sambo." It's a really difficult call. On the one hand, it is filled with stereotypes of the most distasteful sort. On the other hand, it is otherwise a very good children's book. What do you do with the thing? It occupies a very odd cultural position. By the time someone would be old enough that I would feel right giving it to him/her with the explanation that people used to think differently about other races, that person would be a great deal too old to read it as a child.

Shanglan

 

[TheEarl]

They don't show Speedy Gonzalez any more? That's a travesty!

Enid Blyton is a good example of this. Most of her books have shady foreigners and God Bless The Empire and Gollywogs as the bad guys in the toy box. If a man's described as having a dark or swarthy complexion, then you know he's gonna turn out to be a bad guy.

A couple of years ago, they tried a new print of some of her books with the gollywogs replaced by monkeys. No-one bought them and the run was stopped pretty sharpish. Thank God.

The only case of this where I do approve is the renaming of one of Agatha Christie's books to 'And Then There Were None.' It may not have been the author's original choice, but it's a hell of a lot easier to recommend 'And Then There Were None' to a friend than 'Ten Little Nigger Boys.'

The Earl

 

[Weird Harold]

I remember feeling this way about the children's book "Little Black Sambo."

That was one of my favorite stories as a child -- and one of may favorite restaurants as well, until the civil rights movement made both "unacceptable."

When the Sambo's Restaurant chain changed it's name it quickly went out of business. At the same time, there were several "sanitized" versions of the story released, but they too quickly failed. The story is just not the same without the cultural context and it IS a traditional Indian fairy tale preserved by the British colonials, after all. It's only "offensive" because of the connection of "sambo" as a racist epithet.

Perhaps I'm truly as weird as people claim, but I always thought of "little black sambo" as a hero figure and proof that race was no bar to brains or heroism and considered it a positive image of other races in spite of it's "racist stereotypes."

Of course, Brer Rabbit was a childhood hero as well and the difficult dialect just made it more fun to read aloud. I never considered the dialect as "racist" any more than I considered other regional dialects to be "racist." I read stories in New Englander dialect as avidly as I read the Uncle remus stories.

 

[BlackShanglan]

It's only "offensive" because of the connection of "sambo" as a racist epithet.

Were we looking at the same illustrations?

 

[Weird Harold]

Were we looking at the same illustrations?

Depends on which version you had.

The Golden Books version that Sambo's Restaurant gave away was pretty stereotypically racist, but that's not where Ifirst encountered the story -- I first encountered the story in a collection of folk tales that had something like one woodcut per story and the sngle illustration for that story was decidely East Indian rather than the blackface caricature of the Sambo's REstaurnat/Golden Book version.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Depends on which version you had.

The Golden Books version that Sambo's Restaurant gave away was pretty stereotypically racist, but that's not where Ifirst encountered the story -- I first encountered the story in a collection of folk tales that had something like one woodcut per story and the sngle illustration for that story was decidely East Indian rather than the blackface caricature of the Sambo's REstaurnat/Golden Book version.

Hmmm. The book I read was published quite some time ago, not from a restaraunt. It was in the children's lit collection of the local university. It's been years ... wish I could find it again.

Shanglan

 

[Weird Harold]

Hmmm. The book I read was published quite some time ago, not from a restaraunt. It was in the children's lit collection of the local university. It's been years ... wish I could find it again.

Shanglan

Sambo's hs been out of business since the late sixties/early seventies, but their Golden Book Edition of "Little Black Sambo" is/was probably the most numerous version of the story. It also came AFTER the connotation of "Sambo" as a derogative term for Blacks and the illustrations reflected that stereotype.


My first exposure to the story was in a collection of folk tales of my grandmother's that must have been published sometime in the late 19th century or early 20th century. I have no idea what happened to it after her death, but I suspect one of my cousins has it --whoever has it, I hope they're taking good care of it because it is probably extremely valuable now.

 

[Boota]

I love the old banned cartoons. Especially the ones from WWII where they had Bugs and Daffy kicking the shit out of the buck-toothed, pop bottle eyeglass wearing Japanese soldiers. That stuff is so politically incorrect now that it is beautiful. Myself, I enjoy the subversive. And the further we regress the more I like it. The fact that Archie Bunker was acceptable in the 70's, but not in the year 2005 shows how far we've fallen. Everyone is so fucking sensitive.

 

[Pure]

Those are good questions, Colly. I remember 'Little Black Sambo,' and it was certainly racist. OTOH, the 'cleaned up' (current disney) versions
are somehow also offensive.

It's quite difficult to say the appropriate limit on 'free speech.' Canada has a law against 'hate' speech/literature, and it's created a number of problems, and been rarely used. For one thing, a prosecution gives the hater,e.g. a nazi, more publicity and a public forum.

So it looks like the old tales will go by the board. It's a related question whether a current book should have a *character* who says racist or sexist things (like 'women are so unreliable'). The PC folks want that stopped also. You may remember 'All in the Family'; some liberals did not like the racism, *even though* the author clearly meant to make fun of the racist.

 

[BooMerengue]

This is one of my favorite sites to start my Christmas shopping. (and b'days, etc). I make sure my grandkids are exposed to this literature.

ALA American Library Assoc.


Peace

 

[rgraham666]

You may remember 'All in the Family'; some liberals did not like the racism, *even though* the author clearly meant to make fun of the racist.

One of the distinguishing marks of fanatics of all types is that they have no, I repeat, no, sense of humour.

'Life is a serious business, goddamit. And you have to take control of it before it turns on you and bites.' This is their credo.

This makes humour one of the best weapons to use against them. Used properly, you can have them foaming inside of five minutes.

It's fun.

 

[TheEarl]

This is one of my favorite sites to start my Christmas shopping. (and b'days, etc). I make sure my grandkids are exposed to this literature.

ALA American Library Assoc.


Peace

From that site:

The following books were the most frequently challenged in 2003:

1. Alice series, for sexual content, using offensive language, and being unsuited to age group.

Please don't tell me that someone tried to ban Alice in Wonderland. That's just disturbing.

2. Harry Potter series, for its focus on wizardry and magic.

The evil demon who dares to practise Devil-spawned witchcraft! I can understand this one, if the horrific flood of spells isn't stopped, then we could have teenagers everywhere turning into wizards!

3. "Of Mice and Men" by John Steinbeck, for using offensive language.

<snickers>

7. "It's Perfectly Normal" by Robie Harris, for homosexuality, nudity, sexual content and sex education.

You're trying to get a book banned because it talks about sexual education? You want to deprive your child and leave them in the dark, then that's fine. Doesn't mean you should inflict that on everyone else.

9. "King and King" by Linda de Haan, for homosexuality.

For homosexuality? The big gay book must be stopped!


That is truly shocking. God bless the Banned Books Week for publicising that.

The Earl

 

[TheEarl]

And now just reading the list of 100 most challenged books from 1999-2000. Even ignoring the entries from sex-ed books, it's shocking.

6. Of Mice And Men - John Steinbeck
27. The Witches - Roald Dahl
41. To Kill A Mockingbird - Harper Lee
47. Flowers for Algernon - Daniel Keyes

Flowers for Algernon!?! These people are fucking philistines!

When there are people in this world who are seeking to ban Roald Dahl, there is a lot more wrong to worry about than an Axis of Evil.

[/vitriol]

The Earl

 

[KarenAM]

The thing about banning isn't what gets banned, but simply the ability to do it. This applies no less in literature or cartoons than it does in efforts to control what positions people use when having sex, or how much skin they may reveal when they take a walk. Banning and censorship is about power, nothing else.

And it seems to me that showing those old, racist and sexist cartoons to kids would be a good way to introduce them to the whole subject of racism and sexism, as well as history. Just as it sickens me to see those old films of the Holocaust, I hope they never stop showing them, because we dare not forget the horror of the Nazis if we want to avoid repeating it. If kids today saw how unfairly blacks and orientals were stereotyped not that many years ago, they might be more likely to recognize the current attempts to stereotype Arabs and Muslims today.

And then, God forbid, they might start questioning authority and thinking for themselves. Can't have that, now can we?

 

[Weird Harold]

And it seems to me that showing those old, racist and sexist cartoons to kids would be a good way to introduce them to the whole subject of racism and sexism, as well as history. Just as it sickens me to see those old films of the Holocaust, I hope they never stop showing them, because we dare not forget the horror of the Nazis if we want to avoid repeating it.

It depends on the context they're shown in, really.

I don't think adding racist propaganda films to the Saturday Morning TV/Automated Babysitter lineup would be any more approprite than showing concentration camp films would be. They were designed and produced to teach and incite hatred, not expose it and when presented as entertainment and without the historical context, they are still quite effective in doing what theywere produced to do.

Those old cartoons do need to be seen, just as the evidence of the Holocaust needs to be seen, but in context and with commentary as the ToonHeads episodes do.

 

[KarenAM]

Quite so, Weird Harold. I should have made that clear but didn't. Thanks for coming to my rescue before I made a fool of myself.

 

[BlackShanglan]

My favorite was the school district challenging "1984." The irony gods must be howling.

Shanglan

 

[minsue]

My favorite was the school district challenging "1984." The irony gods must be howling.

Shanglan

. .

 

[SlickTony]

Bre'r Rabbit is a traditional Gullah folk tale.

I hadn't considered it, but it's entirely possible that the expression "Please don't throw me in dat brier patch!" might become too obscure ot understand, if it doesn't pass from the vernacular altogether.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I'm pretty much equally against all forms of moron/censor. Christians trying to ban "Brave New World" for its sexual references and african-american friendly folk trying to ban "Huckleberry Finn" (yes, I reveled in the irony of both of those 90s attempts at a high school I was going to).

However, I was a bit confused on the cartoon list. I remember Cartoon Network or CN having marathons and late-night shows and everything showing old rare or controversial cartoons. They've even launched the whole Adult Swim thing to air cartoons that are out of the age group of most of their other works and I remember them talking about getting a new cable network a while back in order to feature only the old cartoons from the 70s and earlier.

Tex Avery, Songs of the South, the WWII propaganda cartoons. All of these I first saw these were on CN.

Comedy Central has also made its own attacks on censorship in the very small number of cartoons it publishes. The show South Park's sole purpose and point is finding new ways to push against all forms of PC and censorship. Haven't they done cripple-fights, ultra racist Asian characters, depiction of God has some weird platypus who only allows Mormons into Heaven, and everything else under the sun?



Yeah, whenever people start raising fuss over this must never be seen or that must never be accessed, because "it's for the children", I get a bit pissed off and I have often been an advocate for some form of ultra online database where every work ever created can be exhibited so that rare books, rare cartoons, rare movies are not lost to posterity. However, I wonder if we're not demonizing CN for crimes they did not commit. (Hey, they were my first experience with Johnny Quest and that counts for a lot in a boy's quasi-youth).

 

[R. Richard]

I remember feeling this way about the children's book "Little Black Sambo." It's a really difficult call. On the one hand, it is filled with stereotypes of the most distasteful sort. On the other hand, it is otherwise a very good children's book. What do you do with the thing? It occupies a very odd cultural position. By the time someone would be old enough that I would feel right giving it to him/her with the explanation that people used to think differently about other races, that person would be a great deal too old to read it as a child.

Shanglan

I have some news for you. In the South of India there live CAUCASIANS who are as black skinned as any African. Becuase of the very hot, very sunny climate of the Southern plains of India. most of the poor dirt farmers wear only a loin cloth and truban as they work their fields. Thus they have skin so black that it shows blue highlights. However, they are still CAUCASIANS because they are of the same race as the people in Northern India who are MUCH lighter skinned CAUCASIANS.

Thus, as unlikely as it may seem, little black Sambo is a CAUCASIAN!

 

[BooMerengue]

I'm pretty much equally against all forms of moron/censor. Christians trying to ban "Brave New World" for its sexual references and african-american friendly folk trying to ban "Huckleberry Finn" (yes, I reveled in the irony of both of those 90s attempts at a high school I was going to).

I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the white folks were the ones trying to get Huck Finn banned, and the blacks stepped in and said "Oh no! Thats the way it really was and we want our kids to know it!"

Anyone know for sure?

 

[Weird Harold]

Tex Avery, Songs of the South, the WWII propaganda cartoons. All of these I first saw these were on CN.

Song of the South is a Disney Copyright and I've never seen a Disney Copyrighted animation on the Cartoon Channel -- Disney saves those for the Disney Channel and ToonDisney.

The only thing I've seen is one Government owned Donald Duck propaganda cartoon on a ToonHeads episode about cartoons go to war.

Yeah, whenever people start raising fuss over this must never be seen or that must never be accessed, because "it's for the children", I get a bit pissed off and I have often been an advocate for some form of ultra online database where every work ever created can be exhibited so that rare books, rare cartoons, rare movies are not lost to posterity.

I've said several times on this thread that cartoons designed, produced, and distributed as weapons of war are NOT entertainment and should not be treated as entertainment. They should be preserved and available, but they should be kept in their proper context as documentary exhibits and surrounded by intelligent and rational commentary.

That isn't censorship "for the sake of the children," thats just common sense handling of dangerous weapons and should apply to unrestricted adult viewing as well as children.

That position does NOT apply to films books or cartoons that simply reflect the mores of their time. It only applies to productions which were designed, produced and distributed with the express purpose of creating hatred and racism as a tools for winning the war.

For example, Cecil B Demille's Birth of a Nation is a blatantly racist, pro-klan perversion of a documentary, but it is NOT a film designed and produced to generate hatred and racism -- it simply reflected the views of the director and much of his audience; at the time it was made, the KKK was a very powerful political movement with membership in the millions. It's seldom shown today without some commentary about the racist attitudes it contains, but it's still an important piece of film history that should be preserved.

It's not a movie that would do well in general circulation today but it is a valuable movie to film historians and students of film.

We like to think that we're too sophisticated for crude WWII era propaganda to be effective, but we're not -- not as a general rule. Those WWII cartoons are still "dangerous weapons" that should be carefully handled and controlled.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that the white folks were the ones trying to get Huck Finn banned, and the blacks stepped in and said "Oh no! Thats the way it really was and we want our kids to know it!"

Anyone know for sure?

All I know was it was white folk at my school that were for the banning and some blacks stepped in and went, "dude, read the f-ing thing, it was on our side back then."

 

[Remec]

When we were little, we had a huge book called something like "Stories from Uncle Remus," but it was basically the stories from Song of the South.

I think the main reason it's not available anymore, or the cartoon shown, is the "tar baby" part, and b'rer rabbit and b'rer fox. The tar baby, for obvious reason, and the others because they're told in that old patois that's stereotypical of the thinking at the time.

My mother had the hardest time reading that book to us.

The Uncle Remus book is what "Song of the South" is based on, if I remember correctly. The tales certainly predate the movie, that's for sure. I have...packed away somewhere...an old boardgame of my mother's that was all about moving your pieces through the various stories and places that Remus mentioned.

And what is so obvious a reason for the tar baby bit being a cause for unavailability? Br'er Fox' idea of a way to catch Br'er Rabbit was an ingenious bit of psychology...using Br'er Rabbit's temper as a way to ensnare him...as was Br'er Rabbit's pleading for the mercy of not being "thrown into the briar patch" a similar way of capitalizing on Br'er Bear's gullibility and Br'er Fox' cruelty.