Bashing Your Bishop!

[Guest]

So! Should we allow 'Gay' Bishops? I say a definate no. Ban ALL bishops. In my view, religion has been the biggest scouge of humanity since the year dot. It has been the cause of more misery, persecution, torture, murder, genocide attempts, corruption, child abuse, and other evils than anything else in existance, and continues to be so.

Tv, your original post was a disguised incitement as far as I can make out. Now you want to get into the existence of god. As the thread author you need to be more specific re. a discussion you want others to join. Me? Well, we've had plenty of talk on aspects of religion and belief in god or gods.

Perdita

 

[Guest]

I couldn't resist this, please bear with me. This is a snippet from the script of one of my favourite episodes of Bottom: "Culture"

Eddie (Ade Edmonson) and Richie (Rik Mayall) have sat down to play a game of chess, without the pieces. They are using frozen prawns, a bottle of Daddie's sauce is the king, etc, etc. Richie doesn't know the rules of chess. Eddie is attempting to explain...

[Eddie sighs heavily.]

Richie: Now how does the racehorse move again?
Eddie: It's not a racehorse, it's a knight.
Richie: Where's the knight then?
Eddie: Well he must have fallen off.
Richie: He's not much of a knight then, is he?
Eddie: Look, just put it back please.
Richie: All right, all right... And that one's called a rook.
Eddie: Yes.
Richie: Why, does it nest in trees?
Eddie: No, it's a castle.
Richie: But it's called a rook.
Eddie: Yes, some people call it a rook.
Richie: Well which people? Blind ones?
Eddie: [thinks] Yes.
Richie: Oh I see, I see, right. ...But the castle can move, you say?
Eddie: That's right.
Richie: Even though it hasn't got any legs.
Eddie: Yes.
Richie: Pfft, hahaha. It's not very likely, is it Eddie. [holds up a
sausage] And this, this is also a bishop, you say.
Eddie: Yes.
Richie: And he bends sideways.
Eddie: Correct.
Richie: Well, there's no surprise there. Wonder what the Church is coming
to these days. Right, let me get this sorted out. Now the bent
vicar stands next to the queen. [holds up cactus with crown] And
the queen goes in every direction.
Eddie: That's right.
Richie: And they let children play this, you say? I mean, it's pretty
strong stuff, isn't it Eddie? You know, knights taking prawns, and
apparently if a prawn goes all the way he turns into a queen!
Eddie: Shut up Richie and play the game!

It's fucking hilarious to watch!

If anybody wants to read the full script, let me know.

Lou

P.S. I now hand this thread back to the topic.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Re: Re: Bashing Your Bishop!

Tv, your original post was a disguised incitement as far as I can make out. Now you want to get into the existence of god. As the thread author you need to be more specific re. a discussion you want other to join. Me? Well, we've had plenty of talk on aspects of religion and belief in god or gods.

Perdita

I agree completely.

That first post made me want to reply: Hey, judaism is the source of all evils - they control the financial and production machine of the country and are suffocating our culture. Let's ban all jews - we can put them in an oven and turn on the gas.

To answer your question, TV:

If there is a God, is he the greedy, murdering bastard portrayed in the bible as leading Moses and his crowd on a forty year journey of rape, pillage and genocide? Or is he the merciful, all-forgiving father figure I've been taught to believe?

It's up to you to decide. It's up to me to decide. It's up to each and every one to decide. And I'm not going to let you or anyone else decide it for me.

I'm still all for banning stupidity, though.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

If there is a God, is he the greedy, murdering bastard portrayed in the bible as leading Moses and his crowd on a forty year journey of rape, pillage and genocide? Or is he the merciful, all-forgiving father figure I've been taught to believe?

Any sensible help appreciated.

I believe we are at the mercy of our own free will, the fate of being humans and the ability to understand that we aren't meant to have all the answers.

If God ,whoever he or she is, was to make everything right, how perfect a world it would be.

 

[CharleyH]

I couldn't resist this, please bear with me. This is a snippet from the script of one of my favourite episodes of Bottom: "Culture"

That was hilarious, thanks Lou

Edit: My opinion of religion can be found in Abstruse's sig. line

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Edit: My opinion of religion can be found in Abstruse's sig. line

What am I? Free advertising for your fan club???

 

[CharleyH]

What am I? Free advertising for your fan club???

Apparently my PR Rep

 

[Teenage Venus]

Tv, your original post was a disguised incitement as far as I can make out.

One of the things I was taught in my continuing struggle to be a writer, is the importance of having a 'grabbing' title.

CLOUDY:

The one thing I lack to be 'religious' is that elusive quality, 'FAITH'. I agree with Abs regarding her comments. Unfortunately, from my own experience of being brought up in an environment where everyone seemed to be brainwashed religious Christian fanatics, and what I missed out on because of it, I do have to question it.

The only bits of the bible quoted were those that fitted in with the teaching. When I questioned things like EXODUS, I was quite cruelly punished. (I won't go into that.)

I do try to apply logic to everything. (Whether that is good or bad is debateable.) I did feel a need for something to believe in. In my little, uneducated way, I could not get my head round the basic concepts taught. ie: Forsake Mammon - and you will gain everything you want in Heaven. It sounds hypocritical to me.

Nor can I grasp the teaching that if you kill all non-believers (by suicide bombs or whatever), your place in Heaven is assured.

I listened to one 'failed' suicide bomber saying he had been promised by his 'Holy Leader', that if he killed Christians, he would have all the wealth and nubile females he could desire in his after-life.

My puzzlement is not so much in the concept of religion, as how it has been/is taught by its leaders. In my view, Comunism is a fine concept too, but never works for the same reasons.

I can not get round why I should lose my baby, which would have had all the love I could give her. What sort of God could be so cruel?

Maybe it was silly of me to post a thread on here, as serious subjects seem taboo.

 

[cloudy]

I don't think serious subjects are taboo...it's just that this particular one has been done over and over and over. You are new, and of course, haven't seen them.

Okay....what I believe...

I follow a very old way of life, spiritually. It's not so much a "religion" as a way of looking at life, etc.

I believe there is a creator. Some may call that creator "God" - it's just a name, and it doesn't matter. Faith, to me, is just a matter of looking around me, seeing the world with fresh eyes, and seeing beyond the day to day problems we all have.

I understand it's hard to have faith after a personal tragedy, but in my case, mine has never wavered because I still see evidence of small miracles and hope all around me.

I don't believe you have to follow "rules" set in stone to be rewarded at a later time, and I also don't believe someone has to go to a building at a set time every week to listen to how they're going to hell, to be rewarded for living a good life. The most sincere form of worship is solitary.

I don't expect to understand why some things happen and others don't. The very nature of a creator tells me that I won't ever understand.

I guess it's more of an acceptance of things....of life. Not resigned acceptance, but acceptance that what is, is, and it's my job to make the best of what I'm handed, not whine and expect someone else to fix it.

I guess what gives me peace in what I believe is going outside at dawn, saying a private prayer, and knowing that it's been heard as long as it's offered humbly and sincerely.

I'm not Christian, although there were attempts to raise me that way. But, like you, I question too much sometimes.

Like I said, it's very, very hard for me to explain, and probably nothing I've said makes much sense, however you may find something that fits with your own thoughts once you step outside the realm of "accepted" religions.

Two cents, maybe worthless, but mine.

 

[lewdandlicentious]

So! Should we allow 'Gay' Bishops?

I say a definate no. Ban ALL bishops. In my view, religion has been the biggest scouge of humanity since the year dot. It has been the cause of more misery, persecution, torture, murder, genocide attempts, corruption, child abuse, and other evils than anything else in existance, and continues to be so.

Ban ALL bishops, and all those above and below them, I say. Anybody agree?

Frankly my dear, I don't give a fuck!!!

I don't believe in religion!

Hi Lauren.

What she said!

Call me a TWAT, and my day will be complete!

OK, you're a TWAT!

Anything to oblige dear!!!

 

[matriarch]

The essential difference is between 'faith' and 'organised religion'.

Faith is a very personal and individual thing. It can be a belief in the beauty and intrinsic stability of nature, or a faith in an old man with a white beard sitting on a cloud.

Whichever faith (or none) is followed by you, that faith(or lack of it - although I believe that every being 'believes' in something) is totally personal, and should not be the subject of ridicule or hatred by another.

Organised religion is a completely different thing. At its basest it smacks of control. You must, you must not. You will, you will not. For some, this rigidity, this sense of ruling is essential.

All a matter of choice.
And personal, to boot.

For the record, my oldest and dearest friend - a woman - is an ordained Anglican priest in the Church of England. I took great personal and emotional pleasure at being present at both her ordinations, and licensing ceremonies each time she takes up a new parish. The delight comes from seeing the glow of joy on the face of someone who is doing something and being something that is intensely personal and fulfilling to her, whether I believe in what she is doing, or not.

Her choice.

And one of my most intense 'religious' experiences was watching the sun come up over the ancient stones at Avebury (http://www.sacredsites.com/europe/england/avebury.html) - ironically, the parish now watched over by my friend. In the middle of one of the biggest prehoristic religious sites in the UK. The perfect comibation.

My two-haporth.

Mat

 

[Guest]

Frankly my dear, I don't give a fuck!!!

I don't believe in religion!

------------------------------

What she said!

------------------------------

OK, you're a TWAT!

Anything to oblige dear!!!

What he said. All of it.

Lou

P.S. My hero

 

[Randi Grail]

If there is a God, is he the greedy, murdering bastard portrayed in the bible as leading Moses and his crowd on a forty year journey of rape, pillage and genocide? Or is he the merciful, all-forgiving father figure I've been taught to believe?

As I see it: Neither. You're pitching extreme argumetns against each other here, and that's not helping a sensible discussion.


What is this thread about? Religious philosopy? The existance of a god? A crusade against organised religion? As for now, I don't quite know what to reply to.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Two cents, maybe worthless,

Not to a begger.

I think you made your viewpoint clear, and I respect it.

I guess I believe in 'something', but not 'God'. Maybe just the 'holisticness' of nature - and in the universe as whole. Sure, I pray at times, but to what! (Sometimes it may be to a moss-covered stone, sometimes a star above.) Sometimes I get comfort, sometimes I don't.

I guess that as this is just a re-run of other threads I should let it fade into obscurity.

Many thanks

And thanks for the other replies.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Maybe it was silly of me to post a thread on here, as serious subjects seem taboo.

Ok, if you want a serious discussion thread, start a new one and make up your mind on what you want to discuss.

Did you want to talk about sexual tendencies of Catholic clergies as you brushed in the first part of your first post? Did you want to talk about banning Catholicism as you suggested in the second part of your first post? Did you want to talk about banning all organized religion as your first and second posts suggest? Did you want to talk about the righteous or sadistic nature of [the Christian] God as mentioned in your third post? Did you want to talk about the righteous or sadistic nature of God in all religions? Did you want to talk about the existence of God as is suggested by the first part of your fourth post? Did you want to talk about the way children and brought up in Catholicism or other organised religious as is suggested by the second part of your fourth post? Did you want to talk about the leaders of the Catholic Church or of other organized religions as is suggested by the third part of your fourth post? Did you want to talk about religious hypocrisy in general as one would take from your fifth post?

You have been raised by Christian fanatics; does that mean all Christians are fanatics or that their fanatism has anything to do with organised religion?

A Catholic bishop has sexually abused children of his parish; does that mean all clergies of all religions are child molesters or that their crimes have anything to do with organised religion?

A would-be murderer says his 'Holy Leader' promised him Paradise if he killed non-believers; does this mean that there is any organised religion that advocates the killing of non-believers, or even of any human being? Nevermind the fact that there are no holy men in Islam - we all know that is what you were talking about.

Everyone should be free to make their own religious (or non-) choices - that was the point of my first post. You can have all the views you want and discuss all you want, but when you say "let's ban" choice, you are wrong.

 

[Teenage Venus]

Ok, if you want a serious discussion thread, start a new one and make up your mind on what you want to discuss.

I guess that as this is just a re-run of other threads I should let it fade into obscurity.
Many thanks

And thanks for the other replies.

 

[jeanne_d_artois]

I'm a professional

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is to confirm that

JEANNE D'ARTOIS

has been ordained as a minister of the
Universal Life Church, Modesto, California.

Date of Ordination: 6/6/2004

by Kevin Andrews, Pastor
www.ulc.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your request for ordination has been processed, and you are now an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church in Modesto, California! Please record the above date of ordination for your records, as you may need this information in the future to fill out the various forms of the clergy. If you were ordained previously, the above date will constitute a valid date upon which you
were RE-ordained. Ordination is for life, without price, and without question of your specific beliefs. You do NOT need to pay any tithe, donation, or offering of any kind, now or in the future.


Ordinations are individually reviewed and forwarded to Universal Life Church International Headquarters in Modesto, California, where it will be recorded in the permanent church records.


As a minister, you are authorized by the church to perform the rites and ceremonies of the church (except circumcision), including weddings, funerals, baptisms and blessings, subject to the laws of your country, state, or locality. Prior to conducting any civil ceremony (such as marriages), you should know and comply with the laws pertaining to your area of jurisdiction.


You are entitled to all privileges and courtesies normally offered to members of the clergy.


Your commitment is to always do the right thing. It is your
responsibility to peacefully and sincerely determine the right course of action, and to avoid infringing on the rights of others. You alone are responsible for your actions as a minister.

***

So now I will pronounce as a Minister. I don't have a Bishop. Bishops are Church managers and part of the hierachy of a Church's organisation. What personal traits a Bishop has have the same impact as if he/she is a senior manager in any other organisation. If those led cannot accept those personal traits it becomes difficult for the Bishop/manager to do the task effectively.

Many people would find it difficult to accept a Bishop or manager who practises some act that those led find abhorrent. The problem is not with the Bishop as a person, but as a leader.

Until there is more general tolerance, appointing someone to a position of authority without the support of those led will be difficult.

Jeanne DD

 

[minsue]

Re: Re: Bashing Your Bishop!

To be serious for a sec, (I can do that once in a while ). Humans need a source of spirituality, in one form or another. Since the begining of time humans have been worshiping some form of deity, either in the form of what they understood, ex..the sun, moon, seasons etc. or an unnamed God/goddess.

It's in our nature to express our spirituality or our lack of it.

My two worthless cents.
~A~

Not all of us, hun

 

[cantdog]

Re: Re: Bashing Your Bishop!

To be serious for a sec, (I can do that once in a while ). Humans need a source of spirituality, in one form or another. Since the begining of time humans have been worshiping some form of deity, either in the form of what they understood, ex..the sun, moon, seasons etc. or an unnamed God/goddess.

It's in our nature to express our spirituality or our lack of it.

My two worthless cents.
~A~

I am as spiritual as anyone; more than most. It is vital, especially now, when science is so pervasive.

If there were more spirituality in religion, it would serve us better. But whether or not you participate in religion, you must certainly address the spiritual. Life does not solely consist of the objective and measurable, but also of the subjective and of the interpersonal, neither of which comes with meters that all can read.

In the scientific, objective world, you use the true as a criterion. In the other two spheres, you use truthfulness. There may be no meter for it, but you need to develop a faculty for weighing truthfulness just the same.

The study of the spiritual is cast in testimony, using terms which vary from culture to culture. You judge by the truthfulness of the testimony how the working of the spiritual parts of the life of mankind goes forward. Neglect of it leaves you with no rudder, no reason to reject things on a basis of their lack of compassion, lack of quality, or any other immeasurable, unquantifyable, but clearly important basis.


cantdog

 

[Teenage Venus]

I am as spiritual as anyone.......

We all worship SOME 'God', be it a heavenly one, or Mammon. I hope each one of you, whatever your preferences, practice tolerance.

LOVE POEM

To me each bird, star, sunset’s splendour,
Each evening - sings of MY God’s love.
ASKING – not telling – men to surrender
To loving kindness with each other.

Surrender to songs of God’s spirit
Of wisdom – and all forgiving love.
Asking us to feel, listen, know
God’s gracious glory in each moon-glow.

When resting a while from life’s stresses,
Basking in refreshing breezes
Of wonderous tenderness.
See YOUR God as kindness. Gentleness.

Soaring, soothing spirit of healing,
Shangrila of happiness and feeling.
I hitch my soul to heaven’s skies
To soar in peace to paradise.

There is ahead a greater magical mosaic of life.
When my creator, calls on me to leave earth’s strife,
And - maybe - share in a chorus of endless caresses,
I will pray YOUR God is as tolerant as mine, blessing you each day.

Peace and happiness to all.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

We all worship SOME 'God', be it a heavenly one, or Mammon. I hope each one of you, whatever your preferences, practice tolerance.

So, we're not banning all bishops and burning all jews anymore? Damn...

 

[CharleyH]

You can have all the views you want and discuss all you want, but when you say "let's ban" choice, you are wrong.

Lesbian choice is the wrong answer?

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Here's my thoughts on the whole religion debate

I believe that <sounds of scuffle as common sense jumps mouth and pins it to the ground>

Oh no you don't. Sorry folks, nothing to see here. Nothing to see here at all.


P.S. I do have a religion but I believe too much in the idea of religion being personal to tell you what it is. And no it's not satanism. You can't be satanist if you are Satan.

 

[Teenage Venus]

So, we're not banning all bishops and burning all jews anymore? Damn...

The temptation is always there Maybe if they learn tolerance of those with diffent views to their own, and follow their religion - rather than what many of their leaders instruct - those evil thoughts lurking will diminish from mine and others' minds.

 

[destinie21]

A very constructive comment. Tells me a lot. I like to know peoples thoughts and reaction wnen religion is mentioned. It sorts the sheep from the thinkers. (Just my view.)

(Just my view) Call me jaded if you like and if you're outside of my range of hearing call me out of my name even but whenever people say "I like to know peoples thoughts and reaction " what it really comes down to is I want to foist my own opinion on you to show you just how wrong yours is but don't worry I'll use my wit and smarty pantsness to make it seem as though it's all in the spirit of discussion then if I'm petty I may attack you personally. See in regards to religion it's pretty damn hard to tell someone I disagree with your whole belief system and what you use to discern right from wrong but hey don't worry I still love ya.