Brexit

[hashtag45]

just venting? that uasually doesnt happen about genuine matters?

Oh if anything good comes form gove/johnsson/farage vanity project, its that TTIP is now seriously fucked.

What's TTIP?
Nevermind, I found it.

I didn't know about that aspect

 

[hobbit.]

What's TTIP?

seriously? ask Ogg.. he has all the answers.

or you could google TTIP.

 

[Liar]

To be honest, this is the first time I've paid really close attention to a British vote. The vote in 2011 was nothing compared to this, in my mind, and it turned out the way I thought it would. I was not only surprised by this vote, I'm even more surprised by the reaction to it. You would think Leave voters committed murder.

I wasn't refering to any vote 2011. (Was there even an election that year?) I was thinking of the riots. Like Occupy Wall Street, but with bricks and steel pipes.

 

[hashtag45]

seriously? ask Ogg.. he has all the answers.

or you could google TTIP.

you answered before seeing my edit. See above

 

[zipman]

I don't see that as a lie, but I also don't for a minute think that "lie" was central to the vote.

Considering that they admitted that the 350 million a week wouldn't necessarily be going to the NHS, I think it is most certainly a lie.

And from most accounts I have read the economics of it were a big deal. When you factor in that ages 50+ voted heavily in favor of leaving and they are the ones with the greatest healthcare costs, I don't see how you can say it wasn't central to the vote.

 

[toubab]

I wasn't refering to any vote 2011. (Was there even an election that year?) I was thinking of the riots. Like Occupy Wall Street, but with bricks and steel pipes.

There was some kind of referendum about how MP's are elected, or something, I think. It was somewhat obscure to most of us on this side of the pond.

 

[hobbit.]

you answered before seeing my edit. See above

I know I answered before your edit, but since brexit won and consigned generations of lives as yet unborn to dimminshed hopes with vastly reduced life chances, take it up with Ogg.

BTW he/she/it still hasnt explained his EU fuck ups reasoning.

 

[toubab]

Considering that they admitted that the 350 million a week wouldn't necessarily be going to the NHS, I think it is most certainly a lie.

And from most accounts I have read the economics of it were a big deal. When you factor in that ages 50+ voted heavily in favor of leaving and they are the ones with the greatest healthcare costs, I don't see how you can say it wasn't central to the vote.

Perhaps I'm too used to US politicians, but I saw no promise the money would go to the NHS.

 

[hobbit.]

There was some kind of referendum about how MP's are elected, or something, I think. It was somewhat obscure to most of us on this side of the pond.

you seriously need to look up TTIP.

 

[Liar]

Considering that they admitted that the 350 million a week wouldn't necessarily be going to the NHS, I think it is most certainly a lie.

And from most accounts I have read the economics of it were a big deal. When you factor in that ages 50+ voted heavily in favor of leaving and they are the ones with the greatest healthcare costs, I don't see how you can say it wasn't central to the vote.

Not to mention that the 350 million number was way off

 

[Sean]

Perhaps I'm too used to US politicians, but I saw no promise the money would go to the NHS.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClzF73VWAAAQ-qG.jpg:large

 

[toubab]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClzF73VWAAAQ-qG.jpg:large

Hadn't seen that. Only had seen the bus.

 

[stickygirl]

If we'd have had a ballot paper with two questions "Do you think the EU is a economic nightmare that sucks the blood from rich countries, gives it to unelected fat europigs who fuck up our laws and interfere with everything we hold dear?" and "Do you think it's in our best interests to leave or are you just pissed off with life generally?" then we'd still be in.

 

[hobbit.]

If we'd have had a ballot paper with two questions "Do you think the EU is a economic nightmare that sucks the blood from rich countries, gives it to unelected fat europigs who fuck up our laws and interfere with everything we hold dear?" and "Do you think it's in our best interests to leave or are you just pissed off with life generally?" then we'd still be in.

We didnt though.

care to expand your views in another thread though?

which laws did the EU fuck up/ maternity rigts? working time driective?

numerous health and safety issues?

minimun wage?

tribunal rights?

 

[hashtag45]

I know I answered before your edit, but since brexit won and consigned generations of lives as yet unborn to dimminshed hopes with vastly reduced life chances, take it up with Ogg.

BTW he/she/it still hasnt explained his EU fuck ups reasoning.

My personal opinion?

Initially, I was quite excited about the entire turn of events, given that I'm a bit skeptical about the entire EU thing.
In theory the EU looks like a great concept, and there are many advantages that come with it. Unfortunately, it also enables politicians (whose loyalties lie mainly with the 0.01%), to take decisions behind closed doors, without input from their constituents. We're moving towards an increasingly neofeudalistic society.

But after seeing the upset manner in which you and a few other brits. reacted, and after reading your guys' and ogg's posts, it just occurred to me:
- things might be a lot more complicated than that. Given that my understanding of politics is not that great either
- easy for someone like me or others to be cool about it. I no longer live in Europe, so I won't be directly affected by any changes.

 

[Sean]

We didnt though.

care to expand your views in another thread though?

which laws did the EU fuck up/ maternity rigts? working time driective?

numerous health and safety issues?

minimun wage?

tribunal rights?

I've been doing my CPC all week. Walked in Friday morning and the instructor had his head in his hands. "Dunno whether I should bother teaching the driver's hours module today."

 

[hobbit.]

My personal opinion?

Initially, I was quite excited about the entire turn of events, given that I'm a bit skeptical about the entire EU thing.
In theory the EU looks like a great concept, and there are many advantages that come with it. Unfortunately, it also enables politicians (whose loyalties lie mainly with the 0.01%), to take decisions behind closed doors, without input from their constituents. We're moving towards an increasingly neofeudalistic society.

But after seeing the upset manner in which you and a few other brits. reacted, and after reading your guys' and ogg's posts, it just occurred to me:
- things might be a lot more complicated than that. Given that my understanding of politics is not that great either
- easy for someone like me or others to be cool about it. I no longer live in Europe, so I won't be directly affected by any changes.

this wont just effect Europe, it wil also effect America.sosme would say badly some would say so what. In essence though a small group of people have effected the destiny of the world for their own ideology, Gove, johnson farage. all have played a part in fucking the world over.

 

[hobbit.]

I've been doing my CPC all week. Walked in Friday morning and the instructor had his head in his hands. "Dunno whether I should bother teaching the driver's hours module today."

itll be simpler in future. brrake, accelerator, clutch, bus stop - victims of driver fatigue, it was the drivers fault. driving excessive hours? no way M'laud, the driver should have reported his fatigue.

 

[oggbashan]

...

But after seeing the upset manner in which you and a few other brits. reacted, and after reading your guys' and ogg's posts, it just occurred to me:
- things might be a lot more complicated than that. Given that my understanding of politics is not that great either
- easy for someone like me or others to be cool about it. I no longer live in Europe, so I won't be directly affected by any changes.

It is very complicated and the politicians on both sides didn't make the decision easy by telling lies, half-truths and yelling at each other.

There is a difference between being unhappy with the EU as an organisation and being unhappy with Europeans. The EU made it very clear that what David Cameron had been offered was the totality of any changes that MIGHT be made, and even those could be reduced by interpretation of the treaties.

What many people wanted was for a sensible improvement in the EU to make it more effective and more responsive to democracy. It was clear that was not being offered. The EU was going to carry on with its policies of ever closer union.

Some of those voting didn't understand or care about the complexity of the issues. But I think many thought long and hard before making a difficult judgement to vote Remain or Leave.

The turnout was high. The number of newly registered voters, especially younger voters, was a significant improvement on recent elections. People KNEW it was an important decision, more important than a General Election of a government that could be changed in a few years.

IF, as the Labour Party and most of the Conservative Party thought it would be an easy win for Remain, the closeness of the polls was a nasty shock, and the result has been an even nastier shock. The Remain camp had all the big hitters of the main parties. The Leave camp had Farage who was an embarrassment, not a help.

But the UK has decided for uncertainty, for a leap in the dark, and whatever people voted they are worried about what comes next.

But the hurt and the anger generated by the campaign is going to take years to heal.

 

[hobbit.]

It is very complicated and the politicians on both sides didn't make the decision easy by telling lies, half-truths and yelling at each other.

There is a difference between being unhappy with the EU as an organisation and being unhappy with Europeans. The EU made it very clear that what David Cameron had been offered was the totality of any changes that MIGHT be made, and even those could be reduced by interpretation of the treaties.

What many people wanted was for a sensible improvement in the EU to make it more effective and more responsive to democracy. It was clear that was not being offered. The EU was going to carry on with its policies of ever closer union.

Some of those voting didn't understand or care about the complexity of the issues. But I think many thought long and hard before making a difficult judgement to vote Remain or Leave.

The turnout was high. The number of newly registered voters, especially younger voters, was a significant improvement on recent elections. People KNEW it was an important decision, more important than a General Election of a government that could be changed in a few years.

IF, as the Labour Party and most of the Conservative Party thought it would be an easy win for Remain, the closeness of the polls was a nasty shock, and the result has been an even nastier shock. The Remain camp had all the big hitters of the main parties. The Leave camp had Farage who was an embarrassment, not a help.

But the UK has decided for uncertainty, for a leap in the dark, and whatever people voted they are worried about what comes next.

But the hurt and the anger generated by the campaign is going to take years to heal.

fuck your mealy mouthed platitudes. pleae explain your comment about EU fuck ups.

its getting easier for you with every post that moves away from your original context.

 

[Ishmael]

fuck your mealy mouthed platitudes. pleae explain your comment about EU fuck ups.

its getting easier for you with every post that moves away from your original context.

English must be your second language.

Ishmael

 

[hobbit.]

English must be your second language.

Ishmael

what is your point? is ESOL bad?

 

[toubab]

you seriously need to look up TTIP.

What does that have to do with 2011?

 

[hobbit.]

What does that have to do with 2011?

thats for you to decide.

 

[stickygirl]

We didnt though.

care to expand your views in another thread though?

which laws did the EU fuck up/ maternity rigts? working time driective?

numerous health and safety issues?

minimun wage?

tribunal rights?

None of the above and I think the UK introduced a number of human rights laws into the EU. I was playing devils ad ( badly ) for an alternate ballot.
I made my mind up with the power of logic, not knee-jerk and Gove and Boris finally convinced me to stay in the In. Besides, there's good chance my contract won't be renewed - depends on when the changes happen