Brexit

[oggbashan]

Donald Trump: "I'm surprised at how badly it's all gone," I gave Theresa May "ideas on how to negotiate... she didn't listen"

It's complicated; it's very complicated, you know?

It looks like 'Hotel California', or 'The Terminal'.

President Trump doesn't understand that the British Prime Minister isn't the Head of State*, doesn't have executive powers, is 'first among equals' and can be removed by her own political party.

When her party is split, has no majority in Parliament except with the help of the DUP, it's negotiating with her own so-called supporters that is impossible.

As for the whole of Parliament? The Liberals and SNP do not want Brexit and the Labour Party changes its stance frequently. There is no consensus for any particular outcome.

Note* Perhaps he does because he has met the Queen. But the rest? Unlikely.

 

[BotanyBoy]

It looks like even 'no solution' is no option.

I think the last little bit of goodwill within Europe to Britain is quickly deteriorating; I don't expect much of a helping hand from our side. Hope not...

What goodwill??

Britain is just a cash cow to the EU.

All they want is to fuckin' milk it as they see fit.

The whole reason so many in the UK wanted to leave in the first place.

From what I've heard it seems the Uk needs to give the EU the finger and not a god damn penny more.

Fucking shame the British let the EU fuck them dry for as long as they have.

 

[oggbashan]

It looks like even 'no solution' is no option.

'Not Leaving' is no option, 'Deal' is no option, 'No Deal' is no option... What are they hoping for; for Europe to grant all of their wishes, and even to solve their own contradictions? I think the last little bit of goodwill within Europe to Britain is quickly deteriorating; I don't expect much of a helping hand from our side. Hope not...

Perhaps it's election-time; it seems unlikely that the current politicians are going to tackle this Gordian Knot. Have a delay of the decision, elect new troupes, and make them start from the beginning, every option open to start with.

'No Deal' has been ruled out by the UK Parliament yesterday but that is only advisory, not mandatory. If the EU does not agree an extension, No Deal might still happen on 29 March.

 

[Polranny]

Yep pretty much, I would only add: that a general election should have been held before article 50 was invoke, so that we could take the time to work out and discuss an exit strategy and return a government with a working majority to carry out this plan.

The majority left from the Cameron election had no mandate and the May election had no majority under either of those conditions article 50 should never have been invoked.

We’re in this mess due to staggeringly embarrassing incompetence.

Woof!

Time has virtually run out. Bottom line is we are at the mercy of the European Union leadership if we get a an extension but we are stuffed if we don't.
All future posts should be lodged in a cleft stick

 

[oggbashan]

This afternoon the House of Commons overwhelmingly rejected the so-called 'Peoples' Vote' - a second referendum on Brexit.

 

[DeYaKen]

I doubt that all EU countries will support the extension; one veto is enough, and there is enough backbiting within the EU to expect one country to rebel and say no, just to show it can. What do the bookies say; Romania, Hungary, Poland, Italy?

Well, that will depend on how much they want Britain out with no deal. So far there is no appetite in the EU for that. Poorer countries like Romania, Hungary and Poland are likely to support an extension as that would also put off the day when the EU has to reduce the grants they give out to these countries.

 

[tallladiesman]

Well, that will depend on how much they want Britain out with no deal. So far there is no appetite in the EU for that. Poorer countries like Romania, Hungary and Poland are likely to support an extension as that would also put off the day when the EU has to reduce the grants they give out to these countries.

Many Romanians work in the UK. There were lots of Polish but a lot of them have headed home as the Polish economy is growing faster than the UK. Not many from Hungary have emigrated. The Hungarian PM is a head case , he's the most likely to pull the plug

 

[DeYaKen]

'No Deal' has been ruled out by the UK Parliament yesterday but that is only advisory, not mandatory.

Bit like the referendum then. Strange thing is that magically became mandatory but decisions by the governing body of the land don't.

Theresa May can make Parliament vote on the same deal as many times as she likes but offering the people a second vote is "a betrayal of Democracy"

Anyone else see double standards being applied here?

 

[oggbashan]

Bit like the referendum then. Strange thing is that magically became mandatory but decisions by the governing body of the land don't.

Theresa May can make Parliament vote on the same deal as many times as she likes but offering the people a second vote is "a betrayal of Democracy"

Anyone else see double standards being applied here?

Double standards seem to be adopted by all parties at Westminster and the Speaker. For just one example, Labour was for a 'peoples' vote' and changed its mind yesterday.

The reason that the vote on the delay isn't mandatory is because the decision on the delay depends not on a vote in Parliament, but the agreement of all EU countries. The UK can ask. Whether it gets? And under what conditions?

 

[DeYaKen]

Double standards seem to be adopted by all parties at Westminster and the Speaker. For just one example, Labour was for a 'peoples' vote' and changed its mind yesterday.

The reason that the vote on the delay isn't mandatory is because the decision on the delay depends not on a vote in Parliament, but the agreement of all EU countries. The UK can ask. Whether it gets? And under what conditions?

No the reason it is not mandatory is that they weren't voting on a bill to be written into law. When they voted on triggering Article 50 they were voting on a bill and the leaving date was written into law. Unless someone tables a bill to change that we will supposedly leave on 29th March. However, there are so many other things that should have been done, but haven't, that date is looking extremely unlikely even without a deal. It is true to say that an extension is dependent on the EU but even if they offer it parliament will still have to change the law before we can take advantage of any extension. Bozzer and Mogger, now have two obstacles to getting their way. They can vote down Theresa May's deal and wait, but if the EU offers an extension they will have to vote down the law change so we leave with no deal by default.

The Irony I see is that the referendum was not mandatory but everyone treats it as if it was whereas the leaving date is mandatory and everyone is acting as if it isn't.

Another irony is that the only reason they are getting the opportunity to push through a 'no deal' is because of the legal action by Gena Miller, an action they roundly condemned at the time.

 

[My I]

I say Britain SHOULD get out of the EU. The Muslims is slavering for the opportunity to bail you out.

 

[tallladiesman]

Speaker John Bercow has thrown the UK's Brexit plans into further confusion by ruling out another vote on the PM's deal unless MPs are given a new motion.





I don't think this is what May signed up for...
Mrs May brought most of this on her own head by bleating out brainless slogans,by clinging onto power at all costs, by putting party before country on every occasion and by not having any clear plan of what she wants or how to get it

 

[DeYaKen]

Speaker John Bercow has thrown the UK's Brexit plans into further confusion by ruling out another vote on the PM's deal unless MPs are given a new motion.





I don't think this is what May signed up for...
Mrs May brought most of this on her own head by bleating out brainless slogans,by clinging onto power at all costs, by putting party before country on every occasion and by not having any clear plan of what she wants or how to get it

That's the whole problem there has never been a plan. There has been a lot of pretence but never a plan. May doesn't negotiate she comes up with her idea and expects everyone to get behind it. That was why she originally tried to rule parliament out of the decision. Now that is coming back to bite her. Even at this late stage it has been a matter of trying to force her will on Parliament by repeatedly forcing a vote on HER deal while the deadline creeps ever nearer. Bercow has put a stop to that and rightly so, in my opinion. It is doing untold damage to the reputation of Parliament. As one member of the audience of Question time said, "Why is a second referendum betrayal of democracy but forcing parliament to repeatedly vote on the same question isn't?"

The chancellor has now admitted that we cannot leave on March 29th because they have wasted so much time that there is no longer enough time to pass the legislation necessary to leave.

 

[JackLuis]

What if there is no deal and the EU says "Enough!"?

The UK is making the US Congress look reasonable!

 

[DeYaKen]

What if there is no deal and the EU says "Enough!"?

The UK is making the US Congress look reasonable!

I wish that it was not the case but I have to agree. The current situation is ridiculous but that's what you get when you try to apply a binary decision of the people to something as complex as our relationship with the EU.

People voted the way they did for many different reasons and now MPs are trying to grapple with something they don't want to do.

 

[oggbashan]

What if there is no deal and the EU says "Enough!"?

The UK is making the US Congress look reasonable!

Then No Deal takes effect which would damage the EU and the UK.

 

[DeYaKen]

Then No Deal takes effect which would damage the EU and the UK.

This is true, the place it would damage most is the island of Ireland. A hard border would be inevitable. If the Uk doesn't insist on it, the EU will. Failure to do so leaves an open back door to the EU. Any country with a trade deal with the UK could move their products into the EU without paying tariffs.

 

[tallladiesman]

Is that possible? I thought there was a 'never again' law on the hard border?

That's what the backstop was for. And why the DUP oppose it. They want a wall from Newry to Derry. They want to pretend the rest of Ireland doesn't exist. Even if that means the rest of us have to eat grass. They will be ok they will retire to the house of lords when this is done.

 

[DeYaKen]

Is that possible? I thought there was a 'never again' law on the hard border?

I think you are referring to the Good Friday agreement. to which both the UK and the Republic of Ireland signed up. That is what it says, an agreement, not a law so yes it is perfectly possible to break it. Which ever side did break it could be held responsible for a flare-up in the violence in NI which is why everyone has been trying to avoid it.

 

[DeYaKen]

That's what the backstop was for. And why the DUP oppose it. They want a wall from Newry to Derry. They want to pretend the rest of Ireland doesn't exist. Even if that means the rest of us have to eat grass. They will be ok they will retire to the house of lords when this is done.

That is not true, or at least it is not the DUP's stated position. Their stated position is that they want contradictory things at the same time.

They want Brexit
They do not want a hard border.
They do not want NI to be treated any differently to the rest of the UK
They do want to have different laws from the UK
They do not want an Irish border in the Irish Sea.

There is absolutely no way they can have all these things at the same time but if they don't get them they will not give Theresa May the support that she paid £2 billion for.

 

[MutualMan]

So, I guess it's going to be a 'No Deal' Brexit. They'll leave it up to the EU, to make a decision and tell them to leave. At least, that would unite Britain again, as they will have a common enemy; the EU, with its unacceptable policies.

You could be right. We've spent the past 40 years blaming EU for everything.

 

[DeYaKen]

You could be right. We've spent the past 40 years blaming EU for everything.

For the next forty years, they will be telling us that Britain's problems are all caused by cleaning up the mess left from being in the EU. I wonder how long it will take for the British to realise that their problems are caused by their own Government in Westminster. The people that they elected.

 

[oggbashan]

The neighbor who called the police has been shown to be anti-Brexit and conducting a campaign against Boris.

The Police attended and found no cause for action.

However in the current febrile nature of UK politics I feel sorry for anyone living near Boris.

 

[oggbashan]

So, there were no sound recordings? It's not true?

It is probably true but a storm in a teacup. Boris and girlfriend are under a lot of stress at present so a row is not unexpected.

The neighbors' motives are dubious.

 

[DeYaKen]

Boris' stability is dubious. To me, that seems pretty relevant for the job he's trying to get.

It seems like he wants to become another unhinged American speaking leader, rejecting previously made agreements and becoming a partner who can never be trusted.

Ian Hislop reeled off a list of jobs from which Boris has been fired for either lying or deceiving his employers so in that respect at least there is a parallel.

He was fired as editor of the Spectator for having an affair with a junior member of staff then lying to cover it up. Another similarity.

Anyone who criticises or embarrasses him publicly becomes the victim of a Daily Telegraph (otherwise known as Boris's Blog) smear campaign. However, none of this will make any difference, he is very popular with the largely geriatric members of the Tory Party and they are the people who will decide our new leader.

According to his father, if he is Prime Minister in one month (heaven forbid that they should cut their holidays short) he will divide Europe to such a degree that the member states will force the Commission to give us a better deal. In other words, he will achieve in one month as Prime Minister what he failed to achieve in three years as Foreign Secretary. Sound like Einstein's definition of madness but that's what people are pinning their hopes on.