Britishisms in Stories About Americans, and Vice-Versa

[SimonDoom]

Another one is "mate." Australians and Brits I think use this term among men to denote friends. Absolutely no American man would use that term.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Another one is "mate." Australians and Brits I think use this term among men to denote friends. Absolutely no American man would use that term.

There's a nuance to it, depending how it's said - which can come across in punctuation. It can either denote friendship, mate; or the complete opposite. Mate.

It's a handy kind of a word, to do that. Also a trap for the unwary.

You're fine, Simon, always the comma .

 

[VilHaMer]

I think "mate" is used (especially by Australians) the way Americans use "buddy" or "pal". It's something you can say to anybody, even people you're not actually friends with.

 

[oggbashan]

During the Korean War, the word 'sticky' was misunderstood between Brits and Americans.

When asked by radio how the situation was the Brit commander said 'Things are a little sticky'. The Americans understood that to mean 'I'm coping and we're OK.' What the Brit commander actually meant was they were facing millions of Chinese and were in danger of being overrun.

The Americans didn't send reinforcements and the Brits were wiped out.

 

[KeithD]

I don't think many Americans ever thought of a sticky situation in terms of being OK. I think that term was used in hard boiled mysteries in the States back in the twenties and thirties in terms of a complicated mess.

As far as "mate," I think that's entering American usage. I don't see "arse" ever doing so, though.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think "mate" is used (especially by Australians) the way Americans use "buddy" or "pal". It's something you can say to anybody, even people you're not actually friends with.

I think this is exactly right. An American might use "buddy" or "pal" in a bar the same way an Australian would use "mate." It could be friendly, or it could be hostile. Like, "That's my seat, buddy."

But no American would use "mate" in any context I would imagine.

 

[jaF0]

Plenty of Yanks mate with each other, but not often with their mates.

 

[jaF0]

A lyric from a 1940s song ....

'Just put a $20 gold piece on my watch chain so the boys will know I died standing pat.'

Do people outside the US use 'standing pat'?

 

[MillieDynamite]

I think "mate" is used (especially by Australians) the way Americans use "buddy" or "pal". It's something you can say to anybody, even people you're not actually friends with.

In New England, they use the term Pal or Pally and indicate friends or anger. Lets get a brew, pally, or Listen to me, Pally, keep you're wicked big nose out of my business.

 

[KeithD]

Plenty of Yanks mate with each other, but not often with their mates.

I'll wager far more do then you seem to think.

 

[PennameWombat]

Another one is "mate." Australians and Brits I think use this term among men to denote friends. Absolutely no American man would use that term.

Part one is correct, modulo the next quote. Part two? As an American living in Australia a few years, I do not use "mate". My pronunciation would just not be correct. As for "G'day, mate"? No way do I even try it. I'd sound like a total berk.

I think "mate" is used (especially by Australians) the way Americans use "buddy" or "pal". It's something you can say to anybody, even people you're not actually friends with.

Not so far off, but there are subtleties "mate" can convey that don't exactly line up. Of course, I never use "buddy" or "pal" either

During the Korean War, the word 'sticky' was misunderstood between Brits and Americans.

When asked by radio how the situation was the Brit commander said 'Things are a little sticky'. The Americans understood that to mean 'I'm coping and we're OK.' What the Brit commander actually meant was they were facing millions of Chinese and were in danger of being overrun.

The Americans didn't send reinforcements and the Brits were wiped out.

If he was in danger of being overrun, he should've said he was in danger of being overrun... Sorry, not to take their loss lightly.

But, I'd never take "sticky" to mean "OK." I'd take it to mean there is some danger or threat in the situation, and I think that'd be a common American reaction. But, not that it's absolutely dire or life or death, although it might cause me to inquire more deeply, depending on the relationship.

 

[PennameWombat]

A lyric from a 1940s song ....

'Just put a $20 gold piece on my watch chain so the boys will know I died standing pat.'

Do people outside the US use 'standing pat'?

So far as I'm aware, Australians understand it in relation to various card games, poker, blackjack, etc. But I've never heard it used in the broader context of a stubborn or refusing to change person.

 

[jaF0]

Well, that's where it comes from, I guess. Even, not owing anybody anything.

 

[Rustyoznail]

So far as I'm aware, Australians understand it in relation to various card games, poker, blackjack, etc. But I've never heard it used in the broader context of a stubborn or refusing to change person.

The Aussie version would be "He dug in and wouldn't budge."

Edit - a WW1 reference to trench warfare.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

FWIW I wouldn't have understood 'standing pat' in that sentence, and I get most card-game terms.

I think UK 'mate' is possibly most like 'dude' in 90s American movies, not sure if it's still used that way. Whether it's gender-neutral or mainly/only male varies round the country and according to what expressions it's used in - in London a lot of men will use mate to men and possibly women they consider equals, but use 'love' to young people, women and the elderly, hence 'love' can come across as patronising. I like using love on the middle-aged men who call me love - they clearly feel emasculated but can't complain because they started it!

 

[Handley_Page]

A lyric from a 1940s song ....

'Just put a $20 gold piece on my watch chain so the boys will know I died standing pat.'

Do people outside the US use 'standing pat'?

I've not heard it.
Presumably, it refers to a card game (Poker?)

.

I think UK 'mate' is possibly most like 'dude' in 90s American movies, not sure if it's still used that way. Whether it's gender-neutral or mainly/only male varies round the country and according to what expressions it's used in - in London a lot of men will use mate to men and possibly women they consider equals, but use 'love' to young people, women and the elderly, hence 'love' can come across as patronising. I like using love on the middle-aged men who call me love - they clearly feel emasculated but can't complain because they started it!

I think the term 'mate' has a great deal to do with shared adversity (a WW1 trench for example, or down a coal mine); a place where you rely on a bloke to stand by you by in time of acute trouble, and knowing that you will do similar for him.

 

[yowser]

Cheque, mate.

 

[Rustyoznail]

Cheque, mate.

Mate, no cheques. Cash only.

 

[PennameWombat]

I've not heard it.
Presumably, it refers to a card game (Poker?)
<snip>

Indeed. It's held that 'standing pat' or 'stand pat' originated with 19th Century American poker players to mean they were satisfied with their hand and wouldn't draw cards. Believed derived somewhat from the idea that 'pat' can mean satisfied or fitting, similar to 'I have it down pat' ("I know it thoroughly.") Past tense, "He stood pat with the ace-high full house but lost when Fergal drew that inside straight flush! Fergal is dead now. Shame about that. Shot himself a dozen times in his own back, quite impressive that. Last few he was already on the ground."

In the US it became a general phrase to refer to very stubborn or conservative people who refuse to change or accept new things. Also sometimes used as 'standpat' when referring to people.

 

[soulhouse]

I have some.
Similarly, the word "rather" is used instead of "really". So it's "rather large" vs. "really big". Large and big are also worth mentioning there.

I'd use "rather" to denote a more subtle degree than "really", or to contradict. For instance, if someone were to suggest moving a wardrobe, one might respond with "It's rather large", or suggest a woman's too old for them to date, respond with "She's rather hot though". Maybe that comes from its use to suggest the contrary, eg "I walked, or rather limped, the two miles home" (from the OED).

To me, it suggests something closer to "slightly" or "a bit" than "really", but often used with that typical British sense of understatement, if that's not rather contradictory.

 

[soulhouse]

If he was in danger of being overrun, he should've said he was in danger of being overrun... Sorry, not to take their loss lightly.

I'd always assumed the story to be apocryphal, but apparently not: https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/14/johnezard. 561 men lost. It's more the use of understatement than the American's interpretation of the word "sticky" that was the cause of the disaster though, I think. Another British officer would have understood instinctively.

 

[Handley_Page]

Indeed.
.
Past tense, "He stood pat with the ace-high full house but lost when Fergal drew that inside straight flush! Fergal is dead now. Shame about that. Shot himself a dozen times in his own back, quite impressive that. Last few he was already on the ground."

.

I read it but have no clue as to its meaning. . . .

 

[PennameWombat]

(Referring to)
Originally Posted by PennameWombat View Post
Indeed
Past tense, "He stood pat with the ace-high full house but lost when Fergal drew that inside straight flush! Fergal is dead now. Shame about that. Shot himself a dozen times in his own back, quite impressive that. Last few he was already on the ground."

I read it but have no clue as to its meaning. . . .

Poker players would know the issue instantly. Implied they’re playing five card draw (we’ll assume no wild cards, aces high.)

Our protagonist (Standing Pat) has been dealt a full house, aces high. Let’s say three aces and a pair of threes (suits don’t matter). Hell of a hand, doesn’t lose to much, incredibly rare to be dealt it but I’ve seen such happen. I haven’t played much poker last few years but I did get a couple of hands similar to this.

Back to the example, Fergal has been dealt 5 - 7 - 9 (hearts); 10 (spades); K (clubs).

No one knows the cards the other players have, but Fergal discards two cards (the 10, K) to draw two cards. Stand Pat dude says “I’m fine” or actually says “Standing pat.” Not drawing any cards. Other players hem and hew, some might drop. The dealer deals out cards.

Fergal is dealt the 6 and 8 of hearts, to get 5-6-7-8-9 - all hearts - a straight-flush. Which beats a full house.

But the big deal, is he needed ‘inside’ the straight to get it, he HAD to get a 6 and an 8 (any suits) to get a straight (he’d lose to Stand Pat) but to get a 6 and 8 of hearts by drawing like this… the odds are really poor and Poker strategy is you almost never draw to an inside straight, where you need a specific number (well, never say never.)

It’s more common to have, e.g., 5-6-7-8, then draw one card. Either a 4 or a 9 gives you a straight, and if all are same suit, you have a chance at a straight-flush. Not great odds, but since there are four 4s and four 9s in the deck (you don’t know how many have been played in five-card draw, but still, that’s choosing from eight cards) that’s much better odds than my above example, where only the 6 and 8 of hearts gives Fergal a winning hand. And he needed both.

The last part, Fergal ‘shooting himself’, I could’ve made clearer by saying it was after he’d told everyone he’d drawn that inside straight-flush (everyone knew he’d drawn TWO cards) swept the winnings from the table and left for the evening and he decided to shoot himself in the back repeatedly, pausing only once to reload, and continuing the effort even while he was flat on the ground

Trust me, the life expectancy of players like Fergal who win drawing stuff like that could be, um, low. Fellow players would get incredibly angry at someone seemingly clueless like Fergal is drawing cards like that. They’d likely believe he has to be cheating… somehow.

P.S. This is apropos to five-card draw, with no wild cards (pure 52 card deck.) For other games, e.g., Texas Hold-em, Seven card, five-card stud, or with various wild cards, the odds change and so this decision making might be different. Five-card draw is a stereotypical “American Frontier” poker game. Wasn’t the only one played, but it’s the one often thought about.

 

[Wifetheif]

My fiancee is a British immigrant and a successful mainstream writer. She writes for a largely American audience, so she bounces her Americanisms off me to see if she has gotten it right. I don't have many British characters in my own writing, but when I do, I base them off her. I drop in "knickers" from time to time instead of "panties" because it is fun to say and is actually starting to catch on with some American women.

 

[Handley_Page]

PWombat; many thanks for that information.
I'm glad I never learned poker (I'm not much use at cards anyway).