Carpenter Ants! and Spiders!

[Lynxie]

No, this isn't just a spoof of Eilan's "Wasps!" post. I really do have carpenter ants and spiders. Here's the info.

the ants

My hubby and I just moved into our new house (in Massachusetts, if that's helpful). In the past couple weeks, we've seen maybe a dozen large carpenter ants crawling around. They seem to be restricted to the older side of the house (old side: 1925, newer addition: 1997), but we've seen them in 4 different rooms. I know from friends and family that you can actually hear it when you've got a bad infestation. We've gone through the entire house slowly, listening in each room (while the power was out, so we had absolute silence), and haven't heard anything. This includes the attic and basement. The threshhold of our front door is rotten, and I'm thinking that's a possibility... but I haven't seen any around it. We've also got a raised flowerbed right up against our house beneath our office windows. We're actually planning on ripping that out tonight, and that's my second guess for where the ants are coming from.

In the event that we don't find the nest in the flowerbed or front door frame, does anyone know a better way to go about finding it? What are some good products to use once we've found it? My dad recommends Diazinon, but I was curious if anyone knew of anything that would work better for carpenter ants specifically. Lastly, once we've erradicated the current infestation (even if we have to call an exterminator), is there anything I can do to keep them from coming back?

the spiders

I have a phobia of spiders. They scare the bejeebus outta me. Unfortunately, our house has a bit of a spider infestation. It's taken all my willpower, but I've been looking at some spider websites to try and identify the different types. The first is a Long-Bodied Cellar Spider, Pholcus phalangioides. The other seems to be a Garden Orb Weaver ... if you count 6 posts up from the bottom (the sept. 23 '01 post), those look exactly like what lives on my porch.

The cellar spiders are all over my basement. Both basements, to be precise (yeah, our house is odd). I know they're actually in the same family as daddy longlegs, but they still creep me out. Every day I find at least one that's worked it's way upstairs. I'd like to get rid of them, or at least vastly reduce their population.

The orb weavers are positively nasty. They're massive by New England standards (I know anyone from the south is laughing at me right now), and there are well over a dozen large ones and many more juveniles on our front porch. During the day it's not so bad...only some smaller normal spiders are out and about. But these big guys come out as soon as the sun goes down. Yuck! My brother-in-law was over last week and squished a bunch for us (he's 16 and had nothing better to do), but I think I'd really like to spray.

Yes, I know non-poisonous spiders are harmless, and do a lot of good eating bugs and such... but I really am deathly afraid of them. I'm fine with them out in the woods or yard, but I really, really don't want them in my house or on my porch. Does anyone have suggestions for getting rid of 'em?

 

[oxphocker]

Well.. I know that you can buy several different types of ant traps at the store and I have had luck with those, but with carpenter ants I don't know if the same traps will work. As for diazanon, the stuff works well, but is a pain to spread around; it doesn't soak into the ground very fast and usually comes in large grains that can get swept up if you don't leave it sit for a couple of days...plus I am a bit uncomfortable leaving that much poison just sitting out in the open.

As for spiders....I've never seen anything specifically made for getting rid of them. Maybe something like a couple of cans of raid or a bug bomb? Though...if you poison all the other bugs...the spiders might start leaving just on account of the lack of food. You won't get rid of all of them, but it might lower the numbers.

 

[Lynxie]

Well.. I know that you can buy several different types of ant traps at the store and I have had luck with those, but with carpenter ants I don't know if the same traps will work. As for diazanon, the stuff works well, but is a pain to spread around; it doesn't soak into the ground very fast and usually comes in large grains that can get swept up if you don't leave it sit for a couple of days...plus I am a bit uncomfortable leaving that much poison just sitting out in the open.

That's why I'm looking for alternatives to diazinon. I'd prefer to directly target the ants and not risk poisoning other critters.

[/quote]As for spiders....I've never seen anything specifically made for getting rid of them. Maybe something like a couple of cans of raid or a bug bomb? Though...if you poison all the other bugs...the spiders might start leaving just on account of the lack of food. You won't get rid of all of them, but it might lower the numbers.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm thinking about buying some Raid... but again, if I can target just the spiders I'd be much happier. Thanks for the suggestions!

 

[Guest]

 

[EJFan]

hey lynxie...

i get ant problems here all the time... particularly when it rains. i guess they try to come in and dry off. the only thing i've used with repeated success is the old aerosol bug spray. spray the areas i see the ants and, before very long, they're just gone. i often think of the monty python bit... "run away! run away!"

there are some great gel products to take care of ants. you can check your local home depot or lowes or whatever. the gel's nice because it tends to last longer w/o reapplying and they take it back to the nest for a greater impact.

whatever you do, do NOT call an exterminator. there's very little they do that you can't handle yourself with critters like this. it'd be a huge waste of money.

as for the spiders, i dunno what to tell you. maybe you can have a chat with them and get them to eat the ants?

and don't you worry about the southerners laughing at you... i laugh at southerners CONSTANTLY. fuck the confederacy!

 

[Guest]

 

[Lynxie]

Lynxie,

We had a lot of carpenter ants earlier this year, and our house is only 2 years old. (we're in cowhampshire) We used a product called GardenTech Seven Insect Granules. (got it at the local Agway) You can spread it around the house using a seed or fertilizer spreader. The ants take the granules back to the nest and it kills them all. havent seen a carpenter ant in months. The bag says it kills 30 different kind of insects, although I didn't check to see if spiders are on the list (although now that I think about it, I haven't seen any lately in the cellar.)

Active ingredient is carbaryl (or something like that) although I don't know much about it except it took care of the ants.

Good Luck.

Interesting. I'll have to look into this product more... It sounds like it may be more effective than diazinon, though possibly scarier for the environment. Later this week I'll drag the hubby to the Agway and see what they've got.

there are some great gel products to take care of ants. you can check your local home depot or lowes or whatever. the gel's nice because it tends to last longer w/o reapplying and they take it back to the nest for a greater impact.

Gels? Neat. I'll have to check these out, too! By the time I decide on a product to use, my house will either be devoured, or the ants will have died from old age.

One more thing about the cellar spiders, I believe they like humid spaces. Check your cold water pipes, if they have drops of water condensating on them, you have too much humidity and should run a dehumidifier.

We do indeed have humidity. Our well water is ridiculously cold, and the pipes sweat a lot. We're planning on getting a dehumidifier for basement #2 (the old basement is dry, it's the one under the addition that's wet) so we can store tools and stuff down there without worrying about rust... I guess that should help take care of at least some of the spiders.

Hopefully we can get this all under control, and all the lil buggies will be yelling "run away! run away!" in no time.

As a side note, all this talk about spiders has gotten the Spider song by They Might be Giants stuck in my head. Ugh.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Ants and Spiders can easly be killed by RAID insecticide which they make specific insecticides for ants and spiders, (again why i prefur raid above all others)

for indoor and old housing it is best to call an exterminator, also ask if there is a way they can lay down an insect repelent, (good for up to 6 months) that will generaly leave all insects out of the house even though it leaves a dingy 'poison' like smell in the air.

If your not realy into the whole, Poison everything and anything and wait for it all to die you can always buy Sonic Pest repelents. they range from basicly $9.99 plug ins that effect 1 room to $100+ things that basicly repell anything from ants to medial sized rodants in a 25 meter circle from its placment.

The science behind it is that the Ultrasonic frequency produced goes through a wave patern which is extreamly unplesent for pests (think of it as some one hitting a lot of bad notes on a violin.) it disrupts their thinking and communication skills and since it isnt just 1 sound its a variety of sounds most pests can not become acustom to it and basicly leave. Most of these things wont effect anything bigger than a rat, so pets are safe to have around these things.

i belive Black and decker make a few of em you could probably buy them in bulk at any local hardwear store. (the ones that plug into a normal wall outlet)

oh just found the link:
http://www.safehomeproducts.com/SHP...=873&h=756&f=N&frompg=239&topg=239&menupage=6

a list of all ultrasonic pest repelents.

 

[Lynxie]

Thanks PP. I wonder how effective the ultrasonic devices really are. Also, do the waves travel through walls? I don't have an outlet on my front porch, so I wouldn't be able to plug anything in out there.

 

[Guest]

 

[Pyro Paul]

Thanks PP. I wonder how effective the ultrasonic devices really are. Also, do the waves travel through walls? I don't have an outlet on my front porch, so I wouldn't be able to plug anything in out there.

acctualy most of them have a warning about that, alot of the Ultrasonic waves cant travel through walls or they lose alot of power when going through soft items(furnture) so if something made a nest inside a wall or in the crooks of some table the device wouldnt Irriatate them enough to make them go away.

also you would have to search from device to device, some (expensive ones) run off of batterys and can be set any were, others (cheep ones) are simply plug into wall n forget.

its a Novel idea, but in truth, the Only really Effective ones that Really do the Trick either 1) cost an arm and a leg, or 2) cause a sharp ringing noise in the room, giving you dizzy headaches if exposed to it too long.

i was going on the idea of Use these devices to be used against the Spider problem.


But, it will Suggnificantly Reduce the populace of Any pest, (something you said would be a viable option)

 

[HoldenMcCrank]

I will see if I can find my book at home

but there is a product out there that isn't a poison but works well on insects. Basically it is a natural product that will act like broken glass for insects. They walk over this and get cut all to hell. Diotimotic earth or something like that. If I remember I will check my garden book tonight. If I don't post back please feel free to email me. The down side to this product is that it can be harmful to human if you breath to much of this stuff. That and you will need to reapply after a good rain. Now that will stop them from coming in but not help you with the ones that are allready there. For the ones in your house check with a good exterminator. We have a neighbor that has an old tree with a dead limb and we will get on or two ants in our house a week. We have an anual inspection for pest. From what I have been told if you are only seeing one or two. You probably don't have a nest in the house but an inspection would let you know. Know if you start to see 30 or 40 at a time you got trouble. Good luck and I will try to get the name of that stuff.

Holden

 

[Lynxie]

but there is a product out there that isn't a poison but works well on insects. Basically it is a natural product that will act like broken glass for insects. They walk over this and get cut all to hell. Diotimotic earth or something like that. If I remember I will check my garden book tonight. If I don't post back please feel free to email me. The down side to this product is that it can be harmful to human if you breath to much of this stuff. That and you will need to reapply after a good rain. Now that will stop them from coming in but not help you with the ones that are allready there. For the ones in your house check with a good exterminator. We have a neighbor that has an old tree with a dead limb and we will get on or two ants in our house a week. We have an anual inspection for pest. From what I have been told if you are only seeing one or two. You probably don't have a nest in the house but an inspection would let you know. Know if you start to see 30 or 40 at a time you got trouble. Good luck and I will try to get the name of that stuff.

Holden

Thanks Holden. If this stuff will cut up insects' feet, I wonder how dangerous it would be to other animals... but still, I'll check into it.

I'm about to go out and tackle the raised flowerbed in front of the house. Hopefully I won't run across any ants' nests.

 

[EJFan]

it's diatomacious earth (i think i got that spelled right).

essentially it's dirt with diatoms in it... eventually they sort of peter out and it has to be reapplied or whatever. you can learn more about it at your home/garden center. i've heard good stuff about it regarding fleas but not with respect to other insects (though i'm sure it'd work).

 

[Quoll]

Control

The best way to control carpenter ants is to find and destroy the nests. This is often easier said than done. Recent studies have shown that carpenter ants follow distinct scent trails between the satellite colonies and the parent nest. Carpenter ants also rely on scent trails to recruit their nestmates to food. With patience and a little effort, homeowners can use this trailing behavior displayed by carpenter ants to locate and eliminate the nests.

When carpenter ants are observed, don't spray them; instead, feed the ants small dabs of diluted honey placed onto the back (nonsticky side) of pieces of masking tape. The best time to do this is late at night since this is when carpenter ants are most active. After the ants have fed on the honey, follow them on their journey back to their nest. Be patient-- eventually the ants will disappear behind a baseboard, cabinet, or into some other concealed location such as the hollow space (void) within a wall, door casing, or porch column.

Treat wall voids and other hidden spaces where ants are entering by carefully drilling a series of small (1/8 inch) holes and puffing boric acid (available at most hardware stores) into the suspected nest areas. The boric acid powder will disperse in the hidden void and contact and kill the ants. If you suspect the nest is in a wall, drill and treat at least 3-6 feet on either side of where ants are entering so as to maximize the chances of contacting the nest. Carpenter ants prefer to travel along wires, pipes and edges. If you suspect the nest location is in a wall, also treat behind pipe collars and behind --not in-- the junction box for electrical switch plates/receptacles. NEVER SPRAY LIQUIDS OR INSERT METAL-TIPPED DEVICES AROUND ELECTRICAL OUTLETS!).

As noted earlier, carpenter ants seen in the home may actually be nesting outdoors, foraging indoors for food and/or moisture. Consequently, the homeowner may end up following the ants they have baited with honey out of the house and into the yard, possibly to a nest located in a stump, or under a log or railroad tie. Once the outdoor nest is discovered, treatment can be performed by spraying or drenching the nest with an insecticide such as carbaryl (Sevin), diazinon, or chlorpyrifos (Dursban). If outdoor nests are suspected, the homeowner should also inspect around the foundation of the building at night with a flashlight, especially around doors, weep holes and openings such as where utility pipes and wires enter the structure. The baiting approach using honey can also be used to trace carpenter ants which are foraging outdoors back to their nest.


Taken from HERE

Can you buy a long lasting surface spray for use around the areas where the spiders nest?

[Edit]This looks interesting.
http://www.killsbugsdead.com/fop_o_as.asp

 

[Lynxie]

Well, the flower bed is officially demolished. We found the ants. They do not appear to be eating the sill of the house (though the sill is a little rotted from having dirt up against it for so many years), but some of the original wood shingles of the house extended down below the siding and over the foundation. This is where the ants made their home. My husband just came home from the store with some form of poison pellets - I guess he thought my research process was taking too long. So I suppose we'll try this stuff... luckily my pets are indoor animals, and the neighbors' pets don't venture over here. We're only going to use this stuff along the front of the house where we removed the flower bed to minimize the amount of poison we dump into our yard. Hopefully it'll kill off the ants.

For the spiders, I think my first method of attack is going to be Raid - House and Garden spray. It says it works for spiders, so it's worth a shot. I'm also terribly frightened of silverfish, and it says it kills those, too. Even if we don't have any, the thought of destroying potential silverfish is quite appealing.

We've got an old hollow stump in our front yard that I plan to turn into a planter (far less work than getting it out, for now). We used some of the dirt from the front flowerbed to fill it in and patch some dead spots around it. After we'd gotten the dirt down, we noticed a bunch of yellowjackets crawling through the dirt. Yay! We've got a nest of those, too! I haven't noticed any skunks in the immediate area, which is too bad. My dad has a great method for getting rid of underground bees' nests. He takes some stinky, meaty, rotting garbage from leftover meals (or guts from freshly-cleaned fish) on top of the nest. Skunks love garbage, and they love to eat bees' nests even more. They're attracted to the scent of the old food, and usually dig up and eat the yellowjackets as well. Sadly, it seems that coyotes have gotten most of the skunks in this neighborhood. I suppose I'll have to resort to spray for these as well.

Thanks guys for all your feedback. As a new homeowner, it's great to have feedback from people who've had different experiences with these things. I'm sure you guys will be hearing from me a lot in the near future as other random house questions pop up. Thanks again! You guys rock.

 

[Private_Label]

... I really do have carpenter ants and spiders. Here's the info.

the ants
...

...Yes, I know non-poisonous spiders are harmless,

...Does anyone have suggestions for getting rid of 'em?

The number of spiders can usually be directly linked to how many other insects you have in your house. A large amount of ants will mean a large amount of spiders that will be feeding off them. I would suggest dealing with the ant problems first, and that will go a long way to ending the spider problem.

The ants could have a nest inside a wall somewhere (probably the older section of the house) or one in the foundation. I would say getting a house inspector to do an evaluation on the older section of the house could be helpful - not just in locating all the spots of wood that have rot and need replacing, but also to help you pinpoint areas (like the garden box against the house) that could become problems in the future. Replacing the rotted wood in the door frame (don't forget to check the windows, they could suffer from the same thing) is a good place to start as any place there is a weak area that allows passage between the inside and the outside is bad.

Keep in mind that weather extremes (heat, cold, wet, and extreme dry) will also cause bugs to migrate into your house in greater numbers than during mild weather.

I would say in addition to the gel pastes, you might want to place a few strips of sticky paper (fly paper) around, just to see if you can track down the main entrance.

Note, washing the floors and surfaces to remove any scent trails the ants have laid down will help you pinpoint where they are coming from as the ants will "pool" where the scent trail ends. I'd hate to see you rip out the planter box only to discover that it isn't where the ants are coming from -unless it is a planned part of renovation already.

 

[Eilan]

Spiders and ants and wasps, oh my!

I sorry that I don't have anything constructive to offer, but I know how you feel because we live in a semi-wooded area and tend to have the occasional bug issue. I'm not a fan of anything eight-legged, but I hate those huge wolf spiders the most.

Hope you figure out how to deal with the crawly critters.

 

[EJFan]

a few years ago i saw a spider crawling along the top of my wooden rocking chair. it seriously could not have had a leg span greater than the diameter of a dime... but when i went to squish it that son of a bitch actually REARED UP ON ITS HIND LEGS and scared the shit out of me. lol. at that point i got something i could whack it with from a distance.

 

[Maxell46]

Some good answers and some funny answers on this thread!
I laughed at the D earth cutting the insects legs to shreds! Actually it clogs their pores/bodies ability to breath and that is what kills them.Dries em out so to speak.
Not very effective but homeowners try it nonetheless.
Homeowners...by the way...are the biggest users and abusers of pest control products.
I just had a customer today tell me he went thru 6 cans of wasp spray trying to get rid of a nest in the soffit of his home.Still they kept cumming!
I hear this almost daily about folks trying all types of crazy stuff and "plug in" gizmos to rid their home of vermon.
At times ya luck out but serious problems will seldom be taken care of by the homeowner and then only after they have polluted the air with all types of chemicals.

As for spiders...
you would do best by plugging in your vaccum and spending an hour or so doing nothing but getting every nook/crannie and cobweb you can find.
Poison free and very effective!!!

Pest control has come a loooong way even in the 14 years I've been doing it. Techniques as well as the chemicals have changed drastically and the days of just "spraying away" are long gone!

Max

 

[Cleopatra]

Carpenter ants can be VERY destructive - I'd call an exterminator and get the job done right. Explain you concerns, but those ants are nasty and you should get rid of them all ASAP.

 

[Lynxie]

As for spiders...
you would do best by plugging in your vaccum and spending an hour or so doing nothing but getting every nook/crannie and cobweb you can find.
Poison free and very effective!!!

Pest control has come a loooong way even in the 14 years I've been doing it. Techniques as well as the chemicals have changed drastically and the days of just "spraying away" are long gone!

Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to bomb my entire property with insecticide. I'm also not the type to start spraying the minute I see one insect (I have a friend who'll break out the raid if she even sees a housefly). I know that it'll only take one little spray of wasp spray to kill an entire nest, if you do it after dark when they're asleep. As for the poison pellets we purchased for the ants, we've used them in very targeted areas. We found their nest when we tore out our flower bed (yes, we were planning on ripping it out anyway, as it only had 1 plant in it and the dirt was starting to rot the sill of the house a little... we plan on planting there again, but slightly farther away from the house, in a non-raised bed).

We're definitely going to be replacing the entire front door, threshhold and all... probably within the next month or so (as finances permit). Luckily our windows are all replacements, installed within the last 8 years.

A thorough check of the sill surrounding the entire foundation showed no signs of ant damage, so we're almost positive that they're just in the front by the flowerbed.

As for spiders, we went to town with a shop vac in the basement the first week we had the house. It didn't work, they're all back. I still intend to spray the front porch spiders, but I'm going to hold off on the basement ones to see if they move out with fewer ants around.

a few years ago i saw a spider crawling along the top of my wooden rocking chair. it seriously could not have had a leg span greater than the diameter of a dime... but when i went to squish it that son of a bitch actually REARED UP ON ITS HIND LEGS and scared the shit out of me. lol. at that point i got something i could whack it with from a distance.

Carpenter ants can be VERY destructive - I'd call an exterminator and get the job done right. Explain you concerns, but those ants are nasty and you should get rid of them all ASAP.

Since the ants really do seem to be localized to the shingles behind the flowerbed, I don't really see a need to bring in an exterminator. We'll keep an eye on the ants, and continue watching for signs of them elsewhere. We ripped out three walls in the kitchen and tore up the floor in our office, and there were definitely no signs of ants then. If we had a larger problem, I would assume that would have turned something up. If we aren't satisfied with the results of our own attempts, then we'll think about bringing in a professional.

 

[Pyro Paul]

Pest control has come a loooong way even in the 14 years I've been doing it. Techniques as well as the chemicals have changed drastically and the days of just "spraying away" are long gone!

Max

Hey the spray away method is effective And fun, delude the area in so much poison not even small animals can live, one of my neghbors was that way. he layed out 6 cans of room filler poisons (bug bombs of the such) 4 where insecticide, 2 where pest control, then went out of town for 2 weeks, came back, killed everything. even the neghbors annoying cat (lived in an old apartment) which always came in and brought flees with it, which is why he bombed the house in the first place... some how even though every door nook cranny window and crack was shut that cat still found some way to get inside right in the living room as it attacked each of the bomb cans... poor devil. servers its owner right though. after the owners kid left he just threw the cat out the door and never let it back in.

i think the owner got introuble for the cat dying inside the guys house, not to mention what it did to his kid when he came to pick up the cat... hes not exactly on the top of that kids list any more.

 

[Guest]

 

[naturallyexcited]

We bought a brand new timber frame house 15 years ago that had a colony of carpenter ants in one of the beams that holds the house up! We called in the pros. Didn't work. We did the diazanin thing; didn't work.

About the 3rd year they swarmed. Talk about nasty. Thousands of ants flying around our house and in everything!! YUCK!

We finally found the nests (2 by then) and put this stuff from this site around the nests. We now seem to be completey rid of them. It is the only thing we found that actually worked.

http://www.pestdetour.com/detail.asp?product_id=4332408