Change up pitch

[usable001]

Why would you duplicate anything?

there are tags for both "age difference" and "age gap"; for "18 year old" and "18-year-old."

That's why.

 

[usable001]

when I refreshed the page, it kept giving me the same 10 tags

You might have something going on with your browser cache. Here is what I get...

Click:

Single Story Tags​

• vibratior
• submissive lovers
• the rani
• underhill
• jaguar girl
• sharing her husband
• slut fantasy.
• purple skin
• huge coc
• lick nuts

Click:

Single Story Tags​

• open bra
• mutual sadism
• women being robbed
• how to role-play
• naughty threesome
• affair with mother-in-law
• solo horn
• peing in public
• gay male adultery
• comedy romance

 

[Katie_Mae]

It is, and what's wrong with that? All it means is an author might have idiosyncratic tags for their story which no-one else would think of, but that's their loss in terms of spruiking their story.

Why limit the kink list? That makes no sense to me as an author. Showing me what most other authors use is sensible, particularly since the tag pages are so easy to use. In a way, they're a "best use these" list already .

Let me explain. The op wants to add tags to their story without having to have the new tags go through moderation. I said the only way to avoid moderation but not have people sneak bad tags though would be to have a Pre Set list of approved tags to choose from, because otherwise people would sneak stuff through in the free text.
It's ok, it's not going to happen.

 

[SparkleFur]

Let me explain. The op wants to add tags to their story without having to have the new tags go through moderation. I said the only way to avoid moderation but not have people sneak bad tags though would be to have a Pre Set list of approved tags to choose from, because otherwise people would sneak stuff through in the free text.
It's ok, it's not going to happen.

You'd have to combine choosing from existing tags with allowing for a new tag to be entered, and hope that someone wouldn't be a dumbass and enter a slight variation on an existing tag

 

[RejectReality]

Unmoderated tag changes is never going to happen — unless standardized tags are made part of the system. If there was a list of tags to choose from in a dropdown, that might be something that could be put under direct user control. Full freeform tags means people could put forbidden things in there, so those are going to be moderated.

One thing you should always do if you're going to edit something for only the tags, category, title, or description is point it out in the notation you add to the title. Instead of just "My Story Title *EDIT*" use something like "My Story Title *TAG EDIT*" Point out that it will require only a few seconds of review, and at the very least, you may get moved to the front of the line when edits do get processed.

( Note: Do NOT upload a new copy of the story text if you're only doing a change to one of those four things. Instead, copy what you put in the moderator notes section to the story text section. That should be instructions about what you're asking to be changed, even if you've made the changes in the appropriate section of the form. If you put the story text in there, Laurel is going to have to review it again. )

And I wouldn't recommend editing anything as things stand. It's always been of limited utility, since most of the action happens in the first couple of days, so few are going to notice the new and improved version. Now, you have the additional possibility of getting slammed with a retroactive AI rejection, and a more or less guaranteed month of lag. Unless there's something truly horrible that you need to fix, you're better off taking your lumps and moving on to your next story.

 

[SparkleFur]

Unmoderated tag changes is never going to happen — unless standardized tags are made part of the system. If there was a list of tags to choose from in a dropdown, that might be something that could be put under direct user control. Full freeform tags means people could put forbidden things in there, so those are going to be moderated.

One thing you should always do if you're going to edit something for only the tags, category, title, or description is point it out in the notation you add to the title. Instead of just "My Story Title *EDIT*" use something like "My Story Title *TAG EDIT*" Point out that it will require only a few seconds of review, and at the very least, you may get moved to the front of the line when edits do get processed.

( Note: Do NOT upload a new copy of the story text if you're only doing a change to one of those four things. Instead, copy what you put in the moderator notes section to the story text section. That should be instructions about what you're asking to be changed, even if you've made the changes in the appropriate section of the form. If you put the story text in there, Laurel is going to have to review it again. )

And I wouldn't recommend editing anything as things stand. It's always been of limited utility, since most of the action happens in the first couple of days, so few are going to notice the new and improved version. Now, you have the additional possibility of getting slammed with a retroactive AI rejection, and a more or less guaranteed month of lag. Unless there's something truly horrible that you need to fix, you're better off taking your lumps and moving on to your next story.

I edited my thing because I had a bad sentence in there - caught mid-revision so nonsensical. I do like your idea of putting the note with a heads up that you're just changing tags.

In the future, I'm going to quadruple check!! my copy and edit only if something is egregiously bad.

 

[Katie_Mae]

You'd have to combine choosing from existing tags with allowing for a new tag to be entered, and hope that someone wouldn't be a dumbass and enter a slight variation on an existing tag

The other place I post does that and, yes, people are dumbasses
But for lit, I think they'd still want to moderate that. The free text field would need to be limited to the initial entry or moderated edits as it is now.

 

[SkyBubble]

This would result in a logistical nightmare for the site. How would the site know you didn't also play around with the wording of the story as well? The only way would be to compare the two versions and that would probably require putting both versions into some software package like Word that could compare the two and highlight the changes.

The need to change can be easily avoided if you follow the old advice of "Think before you act."

I'm not going to speak for @LargoKitt but I will say I've written stories that could easily fall into either of a couple of categories. I picked one but sometimes I'm none too sure of my selection. What if I decide the story might get more traction if it were moved into another category?

 

[Katie_Mae]

I'm not going to speak for @LargoKitt but I will say I've written stories that could easily fall into either of a couple of categories. I picked one but sometimes I'm none too sure of my selection. What if I decide the story might get more traction if it were moved into another category?

Well, as things are currently you can put through an edit request to change the category. Is that what you're asking?

 

[ElectricBlue]

That's why.

My question was, why would you duplicate anything, which is what your post implied. Obviously, you would pick one of those, not all of them.

The tag pages are based on 25 years of writers choosing tags. In that sense, the site has no role to play except to say, these are the tags most writers have used, over time.

Someone has just written an erotic or pornographic story, does their creative ability stop there? I honestly don't know why it's so hard, to pick ten tags that sell the themes in a story. You know what they are, the site doesn't.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Let me explain. The op wants to add tags to their story without having to have the new tags go through moderation. I said the only way to avoid moderation but not have people sneak bad tags though would be to have a Pre Set list of approved tags to choose from, because otherwise people would sneak stuff through in the free text.
It's ok, it's not going to happen.

Don't patronise me. My point is, tags are so so easy, all a writer has to do is think about them before they submit their story, not afterwards, and not make a drama wanting something the site already caters for, adequately.

If people don't know how the site works, it's on them to find out, not blame the site for their own lack of understanding. The rest of us can do it, so can they.

 

[usable001]

I honestly don't know why this it's hard, to pick ten tags that sell the themes in a story.

Because people are using the tags as a starting point to find the stories they want to read.

Let me give you an example. Moments ago, I was in the mood for a good quality short story involving a genie, so I typed https://tags.literotica.com/genie/ into the address bar, sorted by rating, and scrolled down past the choices with chapter numbers until I found Make a Wish by PennLady (great romance story, by the way).

Now, let's repeat the process for a story I wrote.

My latest story is also a short story, centered around a submissive woman who summons the courage to contact a wealthy man to build a device she designed. So we repeat the exact same process. We type https://tags.literotica.com/submission into the address bar, sort by rating (my story currently has a 4.85), scroll down, and... nothing. My story isn't there.

Why? When I picked tags for that story, I chose "submissive" instead of "submission." If I had chosen both, we would have found my story.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Why? When I picked tags for that story, I chose "submissive" instead of "submission." If I had chosen both, we would have found my story.

So use both, if that's what you want to do.

I can't see why this is so hard - the tags come from writers, not the readers, and there's a "most used" list derived from 25 year's worth of stories. We cannot mind read every reader, so that's a pretty good chunk of guidance, for those who want guidance. If you don't want to use those most commonly used tags, use your own - which the site enables you to do.

But do it before you submit your story, not afterwards, which is what this is really all about.

 

[usable001]

So use both, if that's what you want to do.

In that particular case, I had nine other tags which were also appropriate for that story. When I looked at the little rectangles on tags.literotica.com, both of those words appeared to be used equally (on the default "all time" list), so I ended up with a coin flip.

But do it before you submit your story, not afterwards, which is what this is really all about.

And my point is that screwing up or making a choice you regret is common. People are not infallible.

I could have accidentally typed "submisson" instead of "submission", or chosen "submission" based on the all-time popular list, only to click on one of the alternative lists later and realize "submissive" has been much more popular for the last 30 days. Or I think of a much better title for chapter 4 of Arcane Allure than the one that I used when I clicked submit for publication a week or two ago (which also actually happened).

Regrets happen.

 

[Katie_Mae]

Don't patronise me.

I'm not. Or at least, not intentionally.
You appeared to not understand what I was saying, and the context of why I was saying it, so I explained. If you understand what I'm saying, don't pretend you don't and I won't have to waste time explaining and you won't think I'm being patronising.

My point is, tags are so so easy, all a writer has to do is think about them before they submit their story, not afterwards, and not make a drama wanting something the site already caters for, adequately.

And? I never said you said otherwise. I know that's what you believe.

Which is why when you went on about how limiting people who want to edit their tags without going through moderation to using only a pre set of approved tags would "limit the kink list" I thought you misunderstood. I thought that you thought I was saying that people should be limited in their initial submission, when actually I was talking specifically about hypothetical unmoderated tag edit requests only.

Even if lit decided to waste time and money on this idea, it wouldn't impact you from choosing any crazy tags you wanted, because you always get your tags right the first time.

If people don't know how the site works, it's on them to find out, not blame the site for their own lack of understanding. The rest of us can do it, so can they.

So you have an issue with me linking the FAQ and telling people how to make edits now.

 

[Bazzle]

Some folks be missing the point. When we are *required* to put a story into a category we just may limit its readership. We can add tags that augment or 'counter' that category. But *without changing the story* it would be good to say to a new group, "Hey, how about this?" Readers get to stories different ways. Lots look at 'New'. (Have they really read all the old ones?) Some choose their favorite author, or category. I search on tags when I am considering a theme and want to see if it 'has been done to a fare thee well.' Maybe some folks only read something with a rating over 4.91 (or below 3). But it would be fun to add some readers without hassling L & M.

Think you are asking the impossible.

The way to get readers to your old stories is to promote them.

R/literotica on Reddit is useful.
As well as tagging @Literotica on both X and Bluesky.

 

[LargoKitt]

Don't patronise me. My point is, tags are so so easy, all a writer has to do is think about them before they submit their story, not afterwards, and not make a drama wanting something the site already caters for, adequately.

If people don't know how the site works, it's on them to find out, not blame the site for their own lack of understanding. The rest of us can do it, so can they.

I'm not. Or at least, not intentionally.
You appeared to not understand what I was saying, and the context of why I was saying it, so I explained. If you understand what I'm saying, don't pretend you don't and I won't have to waste time explaining and you won't think I'm being patronising.


And? I never said you said otherwise. I know that's what you believe.

Which is why when you went on about how limiting people who want to edit their tags without going through moderation to using only a pre set of approved tags would "limit the kink list" I thought you misunderstood. I thought that you thought I was saying that people should be limited in their initial submission, when actually I was talking specifically about hypothetical unmoderated tag edit requests only.

Even if lit decided to waste time and money on this idea, it wouldn't impact you from choosing any crazy tags you wanted, because you always get your tags right the first time.


So you have an issue with me linking the FAQ and telling people how to make edits now.

Funny how this has blown up. My OP was merely that one might want to swap out some old tags and swap in some new to hopefully get some different readers. Tags right now are automatically moderated as they are posted to rule out the nasty stuff. My point is if a story straddles categories it might benefit from a slightly different focus that would attract different readers. Whoof!

 

[LargoKitt]

Well, as things are currently you can put through an edit request to change the category. Is that what you're asking?

Katie Mae, this is a clumsy process now and entails trying to reach Laurel, which doesn't always work, or republishing the story. I'm exploring whether a simpler process might work better.

 

[LargoKitt]

I think you are assuming a list of approved tags exists in the first place. If that were true, you wouldn't have five spellings for the same tag.

Any word or set of words may be used as a tag, unless a human being during the approval process says otherwise. At the bottom right of tags.literotica.com, they even have a list of 10 tags with only a single story attached, like "older woman comes hard" or "lesbian beach house". Hit refresh on your browser and get ten different single-story tags.

Yup, but the controversy here is over somehow sneakily putting 'disaproved' tags on a story. I have discovered that those are automatically prohibited, not that someone couldn't 'game' a tag if they put their mind to it. But tags are secondary to the ability to change categories. I often add tags that might bring a reader from the 'other' focus of a story besides the main category.

 

[LargoKitt]

Not in your initial post you weren't. That's an addition you've made after people pointed out it could be used to break the rules.


This was your initial suggestion. It made no suggestion of redesigning the site to use pre-set tags.


And this is where I suggested the use of a pre-set list of tags to allow it.

While some tags are stripped automatically, the site still needs to review to stop people writing D3@th or sube!ght33n or whatever, so a pre-approved tag list would be the only way to circumvent moderation all together.

I was the person in this thread who agreed with you the most. No idea why you're attacking me

We already have the ability to change tags and categories. If you really think that the ability to do so more quickly will draw in heaps of money for lit then suggest it to them. It's a feature I'd use. (adding tags that is, not changing categories, no point after the first 24 hours have passed really)

Here is the link where you can suggest it: https://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=81387&page=contact

But as for rallying the AH together to petition for this change... forget it. If the whole of AH said "make this change or we leave" Laurel would probably say "good riddance"

Hmm. I guess I'm truly puzzled why I'm getting feedback (from others) that says, "Just make your story, its category and tags perfect in the first place and shut up." and "But this might more work for the managers." and "There's no way this can be done automatically." and "You can (easily) do this already (when you can't.) And the root question is: "Can we find simple ways to 'market' our stories more widely to a broader audience?" And I assume the Laurel and Manu don't make any money off my stories, but all of our stories draw possible customers to their paying advertisers. Whoof again.

 

[Katie_Mae]

Katie Mae, this is a clumsy process now and entails trying to reach Laurel, which doesn't always work, or republishing the story. I'm exploring whether a simpler process might work better.

I am aware of the process. I literally linked it in this thread.

You don't need to DM Laurel. You don't need to repost the entire story, and it doesn't change your publish date, rating, comments etc.

Obviously a simpler process would be a few seconds quicker (and more intuitive) for authors but we have no control over that, and it would be a lot of effort for the site to make such a huge change just because a few authors don't want to wait for their edit request to go through moderation. Because that's all it is, isn't it?

Yes, the process of how to edit tags is clunky and you have to read the FAQ to figure it out, but once you read the FAQ you know how.

Yes, it's a little bit slower than a flash fancy edit button on the tag list, but not by much.

The issue is it takes anywhere from 1-6 weeks for someone to get around to approving the change, because the site prioritises new content over changing old content.

Hmm. I guess I'm truly puzzled why I'm getting feedback (from others) that says, "Just make your story, its category and tags perfect in the first place and shut up."

There's an AH regular who is strongly against people editing their stuff. So no matter what, when editing comes up as a conversation they'll almost always reply telling you you should get it right the first time. So that's why.

"There's no way this can be done automatically."

Well, there isn't right now. That would have to be built... right?

and "You can (easily) do this already (when you can't.)

While it's not intuitive, once you read the FAQ you can add tags or change the category and it's easy. If you can post a story, you can submit an edit request. The part which can't be done currently is circumventing moderation and having the change take place instantly.

And the root question is: "Can we find simple ways to 'market' our stories more widely to a broader audience?" And I assume the Laurel and Manu don't make any money off my stories, but all of our stories draw possible customers to their paying advertisers. Whoof again.

How would reducing the wait time to change a category or add a tag market our stories more widely?
eg I have a story that, a few weeks after submitting it, a friend suggested it may have done better in another category. Even if changing the category on a story which had already dropped of the new list would drive any new traffic to my story (and, if you like, we can test that), why would it matter if it was done right away or if it took a month?

 

[BobbyBrandt]

There's an AH regular who is strongly against people editing their stuff. So no matter what, when editing comes up as a conversation they'll almost always reply telling you you should get it right the first time. So that's why.

There are a few of us who advocate for patience and discipline when writing versus whining about why your self-inflicted pho-paws deserve elevated attention or changes to a system that works just fine.

I understand the amateur writing culture here. What I don't understand is the attitude that the site should adapt to a lower common denominator than we see in trad publishing and other areas of literature. Writers need to grow their skills, which includes developing the patience and discipline that readers expect. I do not support changes to the system that would leave the training wheels on for a writer in perpetuity.

Once a book is in print, no one is going to pull it and let the writer make changes without an extremely compelling reason. Bookstores are not going to move your cookbook to the sci-fi shelves just because they sell more books from there.

Strive to do better.

 

[Voboy]

There's an AH regular who is strongly against people editing their stuff. So no matter what, when editing comes up as a conversation they'll almost always reply telling you you should get it right the first time. So that's why.

If that's me you're talking about, you're right. "Published" means you've released your work to the public. Meaning, at that point, you've shot your shot and you're declaring you're ready for the public to judge your choices. The OP is not ready to accept that public judgement. In my mind, that means they shouldn't publish; the time for workshopping is before publication, not after. The clear intent of the site owners does not include a universe where you use the readers as a focus group before you put up your REAL story. Your story needs to be finished when it's posted.

Note, @LargoKitt and others, I said "finished." Not "perfect."

I've not even brought up the futility of changing categories after the first few days/week that the story's been posted, though others have. I find that argument compelling, too. I also take note of the posters who remind the OP that there remain other avenues for added publicity for already-published works; from what I've seen, the OP hasn't even bothered reading those posts. I think the OP is so single-mindedly married to this one idee-fixe that they're having trouble understanding other ways to achieve what they're looking to do.

I remain very puzzled that the OP thinks this would be any sort of pressing concern for Laurel and Manu to worry about.

 

[Katie_Mae]

If that's me you're talking about, you're right.

I wasn't talking about you.

I've not even brought up the futility of changing categories after the first few days/week that the story's been posted, though others have.

Yes, me! In the very post you quoted.

I remain very puzzled that the OP thinks this would be any sort of pressing concern for Laurel and Manu to worry about.

Same

There are a few of us who advocate for patience and discipline when writing versus whining about why your self-inflicted pho-paws deserve elevated attention or changes to a system that works just fine.

....
Once a book is in print, no one is going to pull it and let the writer make changes without an extremely compelling reason. Bookstores are not going to move your cookbook to the sci-fi shelves just because they sell more books from there.

I'm not suggesting this change. There is already the ability for people to add tags and change categories, so, to me, this change would be a waste of Lit's time and money. The OP is cranky with me because I don't support their idea enough and the anti-edit brigade is cranky with me because I linked how to edit tags or whatever. It's like a lose-lose situation, where what the site allows is too much for one crew and not enough for another and I'm stuck in the middle being attacked by both sides.

As to the rest of your post... If I write a sci-fi themed cookbook, and a bookstore realises they would make more money shelving it in the sci-fi section vs the cook book section, they'd be stupid not to move it. Bookstores move books around all the time. Some have seasonal displays, categories and sections that only exist for a short time. Today your Easter romance might be in the Romance section. Come easter, they might move it to a temporary Easter category. They do this digitally on their websites too. All designed to sell more books and make more money.

Professional digital content gets edited all the time, as for print books, while they don't usually pull the print book, if it gets a second edition then it may be edited between print runs.

I have knitting patterns which were published by reputable companies, where the patterns were checked by test knitters and special knitting proof-readers and they were still published with errors which were later corrected.

But the fact is, this is a place for amateurs to post. Most of us don't pretend to be anything more and there's no reason anyone should be forced to aspire to do anything more unless they want to. If I want to splash around in the pool, that's fine. I don't have to aspire to become a professional swimmer.

 

[Katie_Mae]

(And, before anyone misinterprets my last post, no, I don't think that changing lit categories will make anyone more money or get them more views etc. It's just someone said bookstores don't move books around in real life when of course they do)