closed Thread

[Lazaran]

View attachment 2621811

People saying stupid shit like that during President Biden’s administration helped get Trump elected.

Those people will own that ^ for the rest of their lives.



Related:

Hanas attacked Israel from the terror base known as Gaza on 10/7, with backing from Iran, Russia, and China, etc.

That ^ attack was an ACTUAL act of genocide, and the worst single day murder of Jews since the ACTUAL Holocaust.

And that ^ provoked the response from Israel that Hamas, etc had hoped for, with Hamas using the Israeli response as cover to IMMEDIATELY play the victim in the most farcically transparent act of DARVO-ing in the history of mankind.

Fuck that ^.



We. Told. Them. So.

 

[PersonalFavors]

The Persians like the Jews and so many other indigenous peoples have been living under the yoke of Arab colonialism for centuries. The Christians may be assholes, but at least they'll admit they committed genocide, unlike the Arabs who are like "nuh-uh, we've been here forever!"

Christians committed genocide when?

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Christians committed genocide when?

Ok, maybe the Christians didn’t intend to start the pandemics that killed off most of the indigenous Americans, but they certainly enthusiastically slaughtered many of the survivors—the Trail of Tears, for example.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

A lot of European colonies do land acknowledgements to recognize the indigenous peoples they displaced. I’d love to see Arab colonies do the same thing.

 

[silky52]

Most Palestinians are Arabs or Egyptians whose ancestors arrived in Israel in the 20th Century. The historical and archeological evidence shows the Jews have lived continuously in the land for millennia.

It's a shame that people are ignorant of these facts. How sad it is that they don't realise how wrong and brainwashed they are. Thanks for trying to get through to them.

 

[Lazaran]

Ok, maybe the Christians didn’t intend to start the pandemics that killed off most of the indigenous Americans, but they certainly enthusiastically slaughtered many of the survivors—the Trail of Tears, for example.

And DonOld & the MAGAt republicans, under the banner of Christianity, will be responsible for the deaths (genocide?) of MILLIONS through denial of humanitarian aid, and the deaths of MILLIONS more due to various foreign policy decisions (WARS, fomenting conflict, etc).





We. Told. Them. So.

 

[silky52]

History records several instances where groups identifying as Christian, or regimes driven by Christian-majority societies, have perpetrated mass atrocities and genocide against specific ethnic or religious groups. [1, 2, 3]
Notable historical instances include:

• The Holocaust (Europe, 1941–1945): While Nazi ideology was rooted in racial supremacy and anti-Semitism, it operated in societies with centuries of deep-seated Christian tradition. Elements of the Christian clergy and historical "anti-Judaism" were exploited by the Nazi regime to normalize the persecution and systemic genocide of six million Jewish people.
• The Ustaše Regime (Croatia and Bosnia, 1941–1945): During World War II, the fascist Ustaše regime, which was closely aligned with the Roman Catholic Church, carried out a genocide against hundreds of thousands of Eastern Orthodox Serbs, Jews, and Roma. The regime forced conversions to Catholicism and destroyed hundreds of Orthodox churches.
• The Rwandan Genocide (Rwanda, 1994): During the 1994 genocide, in which an estimated 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered, Christian churches were frequently used as sites for massacres. Several members of the clergy and lay leaders were indicted and convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda for their role in the mass killings.
• Colonization of the Americas (North and South America, 16th–20th Centuries): Throughout the colonial era and into the 20th century, European powers and the Catholic Church engaged in policies that devastated Indigenous populations. Forced assimilation, displacement, and the brutal "residential and boarding school systems" in the US and Canada are widely recognized as cultural genocide aimed at erasing Indigenous cultures and languages. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Note: The history of Christianity also includes long periods where Christians themselves were the primary victims of persecution and genocide, most notably the Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian genocides committed by the Ottoman Empire between 1914 and 1924.

 

[PersonalFavors]

History records several instances where groups identifying as Christian, or regimes driven by Christian-majority societies, have perpetrated mass atrocities and genocide against specific ethnic or religious groups. [1, 2, 3]
Notable historical instances include:

• The Holocaust (Europe, 1941–1945): While Nazi ideology was rooted in racial supremacy and anti-Semitism, it operated in societies with centuries of deep-seated Christian tradition. Elements of the Christian clergy and historical "anti-Judaism" were exploited by the Nazi regime to normalize the persecution and systemic genocide of six million Jewish people.
• The Ustaše Regime (Croatia and Bosnia, 1941–1945): During World War II, the fascist Ustaše regime, which was closely aligned with the Roman Catholic Church, carried out a genocide against hundreds of thousands of Eastern Orthodox Serbs, Jews, and Roma. The regime forced conversions to Catholicism and destroyed hundreds of Orthodox churches.
• The Rwandan Genocide (Rwanda, 1994): During the 1994 genocide, in which an estimated 800,000 Tutsis and moderate Hutus were slaughtered, Christian churches were frequently used as sites for massacres. Several members of the clergy and lay leaders were indicted and convicted by the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda for their role in the mass killings.
• Colonization of the Americas (North and South America, 16th–20th Centuries): Throughout the colonial era and into the 20th century, European powers and the Catholic Church engaged in policies that devastated Indigenous populations. Forced assimilation, displacement, and the brutal "residential and boarding school systems" in the US and Canada are widely recognized as cultural genocide aimed at erasing Indigenous cultures and languages. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Note: The history of Christianity also includes long periods where Christians themselves were the primary victims of persecution and genocide, most notably the Armenian, Greek, and Assyrian genocides committed by the Ottoman Empire between 1914 and 1924.

The Christians may be assholes, but at least they'll admit they committed genocide...
That is quite the stretch.
To the colonization of the America's, is that why so many of them speak spanish? I don't consider American Indians plight genocide. They made their own decisions based on what was imposed on them. The Indians forced out of Canada into the United States to be made bad decisions too.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The Christians may be assholes, but at least they'll admit they committed genocide...
That is quite the stretch.
To the colonization of the America's, is that why so many of them speak spanish? I don't consider American Indians plight genocide. They made their own decisions based on what was imposed on them. The Indians forced out of Canada into the United States to be made bad decisions too.

The European exploitation of North and South American took different forms. The English in the north mostly came as colonists, moving onto the lands depopulated by the pandemics. The labor shortage was so severe in North America that it actually made sense to ship African slaves across the Atlantic Ocean to work the land, which was an entirely different type of evil.

In South America the populous empires of the Aztecs and the Inca rode out the pandemics better than the sparser polities of the north. There the Spaniards came as conquerors, setting themselves as wealthy overlords over the native population. And yes this is why the dominant language of the South is Spanish. (Or Portuguese)

The Arab model of conquest has always been more like the Spanish one—move in, seize control and exert cultural dominance over the natives. Force them to speak your language, convert to your religion, and claim their holy sites for yourself. The Hagia Sophia in Istanbul, for example, or the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

The Turks are a special case. Originally they were the servants of the Arabs, providing military muscle to the Abbasid Caliphate in Persia. Eventually they took over the Caliphate and ruled it themselves. The conquest of Anatolia followed the Arab model, even though the Turks themselves weren’t Arabs.

It’s interesting to compare the conquest of Mexico City (formerly Tenochtitlan) with the conquest of Istanbul ( formerly Constantinople).

 

[SkyBubble]

This is the only thread I see.



I do not support the Israeli occupation.

"Occupation" of what?

 

[SkyBubble]

Anyone else noticed how many M16's/M4's are being brandished by the Hamas fighters?

Russian equipment. One more reason to destroy them.

 

[SkyBubble]

Better that they watch their people get slaughtered.

Unfortunately, way too many Americans (mostly on the left) feel that way.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Bringing this thread full circle:

Hamas dissolves its government in Gaza.

 

[Noor]

Bringing this thread full circle:

Hamas dissolves its government in Gaza.

Not holding my breath. Words, words, words..,

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

https://************-matches.com/*******

Reported

 

[silky52]

Bringing this thread full circle:

Hamas dissolves its government in Gaza.

Sounds like a joke from where I'm sitting..............

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

One question that never seems to get coherently answered: what is the criteria for determining when a group of people owns land that was previously owned, or at least lived on, by other groups?

Is there a specific time limit you can go into the past to find the 'original owners', and is there a descendant limit into the future that can assume old claims?

Because based upon what I've seen throughout all human history and examples, the criteria is purely arbitrary and justified by nothing other than subjective viewpoints.

Rather than talking about who “owns” the land, a better frame is to talk about who is indigenous.

The Jews meet all the UN’s requirements for being indigenous to Israel. Israel is the ultimate decolonization story—an indigenous people rising up and throwing off the yoke of the colonizers to reclaim their homeland.

 

[TastySuckToy]

Rather than talking about who “owns” the land, a better frame is to talk about who is indigenous.

The Jews meet all the UN’s requirements for being indigenous to Israel. Israel is the ultimate decolonization story—an indigenous people rising up and throwing off the yoke of the colonizers to reclaim their homeland.

That changes the label, but not the question.

Pretty much word for word:

One question that never seems to get coherently answered: what is the criteria for determining when a group of people are indigenous to land that was occupied by other groups who could also clain to be indigenous?

Is there a specific time limit you can go into the past to find the 'original indigenous', and is there a descendant limit into the future that can assume old indigenous claims?

Because based upon what I've seen throughout all human history and examples, the criteria is purely arbitrary and justified by nothing other than subjective viewpoints.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

That changes the label, but not the question.

Pretty much word for word:

If you follow the link I provided you can read about the international standards for indigeneity.:

1. Occupation of ancestral lands, or at least of part of them;
2. Common ancestry with the original occupants of these lands;
3. Culture in general, or in specific manifestations (such as religion, living under a tribal system, membership of an indigenous community, dress, means of livelihood, lifestyle, etc.);
4. Language (whether used as the only language, as mother-tongue, as the habitual means of communication at home or in the family, or as the main, preferred, habitual, general or normal language).

All of these apply to the modern state of Israel. Ownership means holding legal title to the land. The early Zionists bought the land that made up the core of Israel from absentee Arab landlords.

So on the grounds of both indigeneity and legal ownership, Israel has a right to exist as a majority-Jewish state.

 

[TastySuckToy]

So on the grounds of both indigeneity and legal ownership, Israel has a right to exist as a majority-Jewish state.

Oh I don't dispute the right of any state to exist.

I'm just curious what kind of criteria people use to claim one state over another in the same geographical areas.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Oh I don't dispute the right of any state to exist.

I'm just curious what kind of criteria people use to claim one state over another in the same geographical areas.

There had never been an independent Palestinian state. Palestine was a British colony which was broken up to form Jordan and Israel. Gaza was a small chunk of British Palestine that was attached to Egypt at the same time.

Referring to the Arabs living in the region as “Palestinians” only began in the 1960s. Unlike the Jews they have no history on the land and cannot be considered indigenous. Hence their claims can be dismissed out of hand.

 

[TastySuckToy]

There had never been an independent Palestinian state. Palestine was a British colony which was broken up to form Jordan and Israel. Gaza was a small chunk of British Palestine that was attached to Egypt at the same time.

Referring to the Arabs living in the region as “Palestinians” only began in the 1960s. Unlike the Jews they have no history on the land and cannot be considered indigenous. Hence their claims can be dismissed out of hand.

That's actually irrelevant. States don't exist until they do, history doesn't exist until it starts forming...that's just axiomatic.