Come-ons from a married man?

[BigM]

I know many folks on this board are very prickly about the topic of philandering, but please hear me out on this question. I’ll try to be brief:

About a year ago, my wife and I (after a bottle of red wine) decided we needed some adventure in our lives. We agreed to explore sex with others, outside of our marriage. (It was her idea, though I was happy to go along.)

We had a few ground rules. These trysts would be “just sex;” we wouldn’t let our hearts stray from our family and home. Also, we would be discreet and follow a “don’t ask, don’t tell” sort of existence when one of us went out for the evening with friends.

Amazingly, incredibly, everything has been wonderful between us ever since we started this agreement. It’s almost as if a burden has been lifted from our relationship. We talk more, share more secrets and fantasies. And our own sex life (at home) has been hot and frequent. (We’ve been married for more than 10 years, in case you’re wondering.)

So… here’s my dilemma: As a married man, I need advice on how to, um, “broach the subject” with another woman. You read that right. While my dear wife – a trim, beautiful executive who has her pick of hunky men at the office – has straggled home at 3 in the morning on several occasions, I’ve yet to consummate my end of the agreement.

Truth is, there are several attractive female friends at work and in our social network, and I flirt casually with a few of them, but damn if I can bring myself to actually cross the line and make a full-court come-on. Done wrong and it’ll lead to a slap or, worse, a reputation among friends and coworkers as “one of those guys.”

(By the way, my wife and I aren’t into swinger parties. And regarding online services: I signed up at Ashley Madison, the site where married people hook up for affairs. I’ve done a little chatting there but suspect the odds of finding someone I’m attracted to are remote. Call me picky.)

Which (finally) brings me to my question: Can any of you women, married or single, tell me of situations where a married man has hit on you in a way that wasn’t . . . offensive? What did he say, and how did he say it? Married guys, please chime in, too.

 

[Trajal]

Let me see...

I think the first thing to do is get your confidence up a bit. Get yourself to a club, dress nicely, spend a bit of a cash and have a good time. Forget about the women at first. Just because you can get laid outside your marriage doesn't mean you have to on the first night.

If you ever go out looking for a fuck then generally you will come home disappointed. Instead simply plan to have a fun and funky late night out. If anything happens then so be it. Enjoy yourself first. If you're out there and still not getting any joy then come back, but the initial thing for you to do is get out and have a bunch of fun.

 

[BigM]

All good advice, Trajal. I need to expand my circle of prospects, so to speak.

My question still, however: When the topic of "are you married" arises, how do you cross that bridge? Guess I could say "my wife and I have an agreement," though that sounds very cliche and cheesy. (Though in this case it's true!)

 

[M's girl]

Honesty helps. Your 'problem' is that a lot of men who are married and don't have an agreement like yours claim to have one. And then there are the women who will not sleep with a married man; open marriage or not... So your chances are slim as you've noticed.

Even so .... I would say be honest and true. It will probably take you longer to find someone but at least they will know what they are getting into which will save you a lot of problems and trouble afterwards... is my guess....

 

[Eilan]

If my husband and I were to resume doing MFM's--I don't see that happening anytime soon, if ever--and happened to be approached by married men who claim to be in "open" relationships, I'd ask to talk to the wives, and I'd probably cross anyone who was reluctant to let me do so off my list.

However, this doesn't seem to fit with your don't ask, don't tell policy.

 

[Ravin the Poet]

I don't know how "connected" you two are during all this, but when I think of this situation, I don't see it being a thing that continues on. What I mean is, I see it as you getting a one night stand. If that is the case, wouldn't removing your ring and just telling them you are single solve the problem. Yes lying is wrong (just saying my ass here) but really, if you have an agreement, they really when you leave the house in search of this person, whether searching or not, you are by technicallity, a single man with no ties or connection to your wife.

I highly doubt the majroity of girls would accept the "I have an agreement" statement because as said, they might have that used before on them, and they may think "I don't want to be a homewrecker if this guy is lying to me." So I would say "bend" the truth a little.

 

[Bobmi357]

Hire a hooker, its the only way to be assured you'll get what you want.

And for all those men that think that having an open marriage is great, take a look at this guy and see the reality. The girl has it easier getting laid and he's still unable to hook up with anyone.

Frankly I think we'll hear from this poster again when his don't ask, don't tell policy comes around to bite him in the butt and his wife leaves him for someone else. It is unrealistic to say you're going to keep the heart out of things you don't control who you fall in love with and this particular couple are putting that at risk.

I wish him well, but the cynic in me sees the oncoming train.

 

[M's girl]

If my husband and I were to resume doing MFM's--I don't see that happening anytime soon, if ever--and happened to be approached by married men who claim to be in "open" relationships, I'd ask to talk to the wives, and I'd probably cross anyone who was reluctant to let me do so off my list.

If I were ever to engage myself just for sex with a married guy who claimed to be in an open marriage I would want confirmation from the wife probably. Just to be sure. And just for fun: to see if he was talking bullshit or not.

 

[BigM]

Yeah, that's why I really don't want to use the "we have an agreement" line, at least not anytime soon during the flirting.

Even if the woman does believe me, I suspect the whole thing would seem even more tawdry to her. (If a married woman propositioned me and said, "It's OK. My husband and I have an agreement," that would really cheapen her interest in me, kinda like she's simply out for sex, rather than sex with me.)

Not sure if that makes sense.

Now, I know it's right (and even advantageous!) to eventually tell her the truth about the agreement. But not right up front. Just seems so . . . . calculating.

The twist is, I don't see this happening with a woman I've just met at a bar. I'm thinking more of some women I've known for years.

I just need to hear from some women on Lit who can say: "Here's what this married guy said to me, and it kinda worked. Or at least I didn't get creeped out/smack him on the spot/run to tell my husband."

 

[BigM]

Hire a hooker, its the only way to be assured you'll get what you want. . . .
I wish him well, but the cynic in me sees the oncoming train.

Hire a hooker? Geez, you are a cynic. Some people can separate sex from love and commitment... others don't have that capacity. I'd like to think my wife and I can do it.

I did have an affair years ago with a married friend. Emotionally speaking it was a walk in the park. We both enjoyed the sex, stayed married to our respective spouses, and we're still friends to this day.

So, yeah, you're right when you suggest it could all go wrong, but don't think everyone gets all emotionally caught up in sex.

 

[SweetErika]

This is where I think personal ads work pretty well - at least they have for me and a lot of the poly/open relationship people I know. They allow us to be clear about what our arrangement with our spouses are up front and offer things like confirmation if there's any concern.

I don't use any "married and looking" personals, and am guessing they don't offer the same odds of meeting the right people as regular personals do. I always say something like, "I'm married to an incredible man and am polyamorous. While we operate on a basis of complete honesty and trust, we respect eachother's privacy and other relationships." Then I figure if a person's interested, they'll ask for more information, and if they're concerned, my husband doesn't have a problem talking to them.

However, I'm not seeking NSA sex, and we have a "if you really want to know, ask, and I'll tell you" policy when it comes to sexual stuff with others, which I think opens the door for more communication, resolving any issues more easily and lays a foundation for communication between the primary and secondary partners.

I think one of the better approaches for you, BigM, is to get to know people you might be interested in. A lot of married guys do well even here by being honest and establishing some sort of friendship and trust.

I would NOT advise seeking women at work or in your social network, especially with a "DADT" policy. Doing so has a lot of potential for professional, social and relationship disaster.

 

[BigM]

... polyamorous....

I had to look that one up. Now I know what I am. Thanks.

... I would NOT advise seeking women at work or in your social network, especially with a "DADT" policy. Doing so has a lot of potential for professional, social and relationship disaster.

That's why I'm treading lightly. Problem is, work and my social network (friends, neighborhood couples) represent the extent of the women I know and feel comfortable with. Maybe I will have to hang at the bars. Or go the personal's route. Or hire a hooker.

Women have it so much easier when it comes to these things.

 

[nh23]

Have you tried putting a profile on swinglifestyle.com? It's a great site where you can meet couples or single women who are already in the swinging lifestyle.

 

[SweetErika]

[polyamorous]I had to look that one up. Now I know what I am. Thanks.

I'd just advise being clear about what you're looking for when you use the word. People use it to describe a wide variety of styles and relationships, and it's often associated with something more than sex. I define it for myself as 'the ability to have multiple, loving, romantic relationships simultaneously,' whereas others use it as a synonym for simply having a bunch of NSA partners (though that's more rare, IME).

Polyamory is definitely an interesting style, and I think there's a lot to learn for even those who prefer serial monogamy.

 

[SweetErika]

Have you tried putting a profile on swinglifestyle.com? It's a great site where you can meet couples or single women who are already in the swinging lifestyle.

That's not a bad idea for NSA or FWB, though potential partners may very well want confirmation from his wife.

Just like polyamory, swinging takes a lot of forms, BigM, and since you're just looking for sex from people who understand, it's not a bad avenue to check out. On sites like SLS, you'll likely find a bunch of people who are interested in more private and casual activities than clubs/formal events.

Depending on where you live, you might also have a "pansexual" or "sex-positive" organization in the area. Ours in the Seattle area (http://www.wetspot.org) is very inexpensive and gives people lots of opportunities to find partners who are open/understand open relationships. You might check out BDSM clubs, too, as they often have non/less-kink oriented events or can point you in the right direction.

 

[lastingpassion]

gentleman to gentleman..

So BigM, I was hoping to learn..... where does your wife hang after hours?
(laugh a little, cry alot, humor helps most of us guys)

 

[BigM]

So BigM, I was hoping to learn..... where does your wife hang after hours?
(laugh a little, cry alot, humor helps most of us guys)

No where near Vermont, pal. But your humor is appreciated.

As mentioned earlier, her interest in exploring the saucy side of life doesn't really bother me, so long as she follows the ground rules. In fact, I kinda enjoy kickin' back just to see where this ride takes us.

For instance, she's also a member of Ashley Madison. She tells of the hundreds of e-mails she gets from guys all across the country. They send in photos of their dicks and proclaim they're willing to drive hours to meet her.

That just seems hilariously desperate.

 

[BigM]

That's not a bad idea for NSA or FWB...

NSA? FWB? Please explain. I just gotta learn my acronyms. Meantime, I'll explore that swinglifestyle.com.

The idea of an online/club hook-up still doesn't thrill me, however. I forever hold out hope of mustering the courage to get serious with one of my hot neighborhood milfs! One of them must be just as curious about playing around.... no?

 

[SweetErika]

NSA? FWB? Please explain. I just gotta learn my acronyms. Meantime, I'll explore that swinglifestyle.com.

The idea of an online/club hook-up still doesn't thrill me, however. I forever hold out hope of mustering the courage to get serious with one of my hot neighborhood milfs! One of them must be just as curious about playing around.... no?

NSA= no strings attached (sex) = fucking is the extent of our relationship

FWB= friends with benefits

FB= fuck buddy


And if those neighborhood MILFs are married, just remember that their husbands know where you live.

 

[kurundu78]

my tips:

if you want to hook up with women in bars/clubs:

a) dont wear a ring

b) dont mention your wife/family or talk about your "open marriage"

c) be yourself and try to have fun!

I do believe that a lot of women out there would certainly find it interesting to talk about your "agreement", but just stick to the basics; you're there as a single male so skip all the explanations.

For some reason, it's easier for a married guy to hook up with women he already knows. I sometimes get some come-ons or double-meaning frases from women that are quite close to my wife and myself; friends, friend's girlfriends or wifes.

For example: Recently we had a dinner with a couple we are very close to. After dinner we decided to take a walk to a bar for drinks. I was walking with my friend's girlfriend while my wife was walking with him a few meters ahead. We were just laughing about silly things and I noticed that we were a little behind our spouses.

I had often felt a strong sexual tension between us, so with the courage given by all the wine, I told her that I found her attractive and that I would love to have sex with her. Man, I was expecting her to slap me right there, instead she giggled and said that she felt the same way and that we should arrange it!

We never got around it; neither of our spouses was very keen on the issue

Stick to the bar/club scene, or else find an activity which would make you meet new people. Or else, look close, you might have a friend who's been waiting for around for you to make a move

 

[BigM]

a) dont wear a ring

b) dont mention your wife/family or talk about your "open marriage"

Thanks for the insight, Kurundu. I want to be honest with this fling thing -- so I'll keep the ring on, at least during the come-on phase. (Pretending to be single strikes me as just, so, callow.)

I do agree with you somewhat on b): I don't want to be that honest about my open marriage, at least initially. Just sounds too much like a cheesy cliche come-on.

For some reason, it's easier for a married guy to hook up with women he already knows.

Very true. That's why I'm avoiding the online stuff and personal ads. At least until all other options are exhausted.

... so with the courage given by all the wine, I told her that I found her attractive and that I would love to have sex with her. Man, I was expecting her to slap me right there, instead she giggled and said that she felt the same way and that we should arrange it!

You da man! I must figure a way to insert more social drinking into our neighborhood/school/kids' soccer get-togethers. A little wine, or the occasional tequila shot, never fails to loosen lips.

...look close, you might have a friend who's been waiting around for you to make a move

This is exactly the sort of woman I have in mind, Kurundu! The trick remains: make sure she's sending out the right vibes, then say just the right thing to show her I'm interested in something a bit more adventursome.

Somehow, I'm still not quite ready to use your line about "I think you're attractive... I would love to have sex with you." Must be my repressed Midwest upbringing. But thanks for the encouragement!