Conclusions about BDSM after reading Literotica

[Nezhul]

You sure seem to be overthinging me overthinking it way too much.

Excuse me, I don't know what's going on in your head.

I'm working with what you write, nothing more. And in what you write there was not a single suggestion that you aren't serious.

I suppose I should have guessed your real intent based on nothing but your nickname.

 

[KimGordon67]

I think you are overthinking it WAY too much.
Reluctance porn is written to be titillating. There's nothing titillating about simple violence - you can read about those kinds of rapes in social thrillers and dramas.

Reluctance porn is also not written for the rapists or for those who enjoy a fantasy of forcing someone to sex. No. This kinds of stories are written for those who fantasize about BEING forced and/or raped. Or otherwise to be helpless and small in hands of someone strong and big.

Reluctance porn isn't about justifying rape. It's about giving people the thrills.
Similarly, horror movies are not about justifying serial murders - they are made for thrills, to let people experience the rush of danger in s safe way.

I will repeat my comment from earlier. Erotic stories are not written to be realistic. They aren't written to give you perspective on the world. They are fairy tales, written for entertainment and nothing more. They don't teach anyone anything, and they don't pretend to. They are deliberately unrealistic and exaggerated for your enjoyment.

Don't try to view "lessons" taught by them as something serious, and then brood about things like rape and abuse or gender stereotypes. If you are going that far - you are doing it wrong.

Actually Nezhul, you then extrapolated from that to what 'really' happens when women continue to be stimulated even when they don't want to be. You made comments about how clits 'actually' work, not how they work in fiction. You pushed it out into reality.

 

[Farawyn]

not defending rape or anything, but are you arguing that in a completely reluctant scenario where you are scared and stressed and have zero arousal going on - if your pussy and clit are repeatedly stimulated you will not feel physical pleasure and experience orgasm?

In a "reluctant" scenarios the victims also often have inner thoughts that make them aroused by the situation, so it's all the easier to make them cum.

I mean, it's how our nerves are wired, right? Your clit gets stimulated and you can't help but feel certain feelings. I know some women may choose not to cum pretty much indefinitely, but I still feel that for many girls it would be unavoidable if it lasts long enough and is done right enough.

I sure know that men can do nothing to resist cumming. We have one thing going for us which is losing erection sometimes under high stress, but believe me - you can rub a soft cock and still make it orgasm no matter what the male feels about it.

Just can’t stay off those incel boards, can ya?

 

[Farawyn]

I was arguing that it's all too common/cliche in "Reluctant" porn. Not that it can't and doesn't happen, but that it happens all the time, and it's downright easy. As if there's women out there who lure men into raping them, to act reluctant, and get orgasms.

Kinda like guys with 10' dicks. If all you ever learned about sex was from BDSM stories on Literotica, you might think 10" was average.

Yeah, it happens, but it's not as easy as you might think, especially if you don't know what you're doing with a woman's body. When it doesn't tend to happen is if the man (Or woman, I've read reluctant lesbian stories too) just take his pleasure, quickly, without giving much of anything to her body. That doesn't usually work even with married couples.

Reluctance makes it More difficult, not Easier.

 

[Nezhul]

Actually Nezhul, you then extrapolated from that to what 'really' happens when women continue to be stimulated even when they don't want to be. You made comments about how clits 'actually' work, not how they work in fiction. You pushed it out into reality.

The original comment was that it wasn't realistic how women are able to cum during rape.
The best course of argument is to point out that it's realistic enough, nodding towards how sexual organs work in real world.

KimGordon67
Farawyn
Are you going to follow my posts now, nay-ing me wherever I go?
You act like schoolgirls. It's just too bad that you are too old to be as cute.
If I irritate your tender souls - just shut up and ignore me.

 

[psiberzerker]

The original comment was that it wasn't realistic how women are able to cum during rape.

No, again it was HOW women climax during Most reluctant/noncon stories I've read. Not "It's not realistic how women are able to cum during rape." I work for RAINN, I have for almost 30 years. Men tend to climax when they're raped too.

The original comment (You're way overthinking at this point) was if you rape a woman long enough, she will inevitably climax. Facetiously. I know, because I fucking wrote it.

Not that women don't have orgasms during rape. I never even implied that. Now, are we done?

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Since Fifty Shades was originally a Twilight fan-fic called Master Of The Universe, maybe the lesson is assume all men are eternal, egomaniacal, emotional vampires and you can either bare your neck or bite back

 

[psiberzerker]

Or maybe if he buys you a fucking car for your first date, he just might be a creep with no concept of boundries.

Also, a guy that watches a teenager sleep is "Romantic."

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Or maybe if he buys you a fucking car for your first date, he just might be a creep with no concept of boundries.

Also, a guy that watches a teenager sleep is "Romantic."

Lol, both very creepy.
A sweeter version of the first example, man buys girl car, happened to my mom. Back in the day she had a Karmann Ghia and her bf bought the same car so they could race from Atlanta to Charleston. Unfortunately, it was a brand new car so he burnt out the engine halfway and she had to pick him up. He still has one of her motorcycles, and sometimes her too ;-)

 

[psiberzerker]

A sweeter version of the first example, man buys girl car, happened to my mom. Back in the day she had a Karmann Ghia and her bf bought the same car so they could race from Atlanta to Charleston. Unfortunately, it was a brand new car so he burnt out the engine halfway and she had to pick him up. He still has one of her motorcycles, and sometimes her too ;-)

Well, the Karmann Ghia is little more than a couple motorcycles with a WWI airplane engine, transaxel, and some sheet metal to hold them together. Karmann, and Freddy Porche were a fantastic combination back in the day. (Gene Karmann also did the bodywork on the original Volkswagen)

What i loved about that whole line, up to the 9-11 was you could pull that motor with 2 guys, a 4x4 board, some chain, and a couple bolts. Also, the way the jugs were bolted on the sides, you could take it apart, and rebuild it on a kitchen table.

They also went in so many cars from the Kimmelwagen to the 9-11 turbo, you could geta all kinds of mix, and match parts. Still a pretty decent micro-light airplane engine, though the Mazda Wankel is quite a bit better.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Well, the Karmann Ghia is little more than a couple motorcycles with a WWI airplane engine, transaxel, and some sheet metal to hold them together. Karmann, and Freddy Porche were a fantastic combination back in the day. (Gene Karmann also did the bodywork on the original Volkswagen)

What i loved about that whole line, up to the 9-11 was you could pull that motor with 2 guys, a 4x4 board, some chain, and a couple bolts. Also, the way the jugs were bolted on the sides, you could take it apart, and rebuild it on a kitchen table.

They also went in so many cars from the Kimmelwagen to the 9-11 turbo, you could geta all kinds of mix, and match parts. Still a pretty decent micro-light airplane engine, though the Mazda Wankel is quite a bit better.

I've never driven in one, but they do look like two motorcycles in disguise.
Her bf was in the airforce and later rebuilt the engine, as well as the old Kawasaki of hers that he saved (that she infamously drove over the Cooper River Bridge in an ice storm). Her older brother rebuilt cars as a teenager, so she was always interested in learning mechanics and apparently had a thing for guys who drove fast.
They had and still do have a complex relationship. And if that can at all be related to BDSM, is that to me at least it's a complex mix of giving and taking that always happens in a relationship, just not so explicitly role-played. From my experience being a sub, the discipline wasn't about punishment or perfect obedience but pure submission. A meditation on surrender.
And sometimes just hot sex ;-)

 

[psiberzerker]

I've never driven in one, but they do look like two motorcycles in disguise.

I used to race VWs, but I snapped my "Honeybee" in half. Took too much out of the front pan, honeycombing it with a keyhole saw. (Yes, she was painted Yellow.) Lightweight 9-11 block, with Microbus heads, and long stroke internals for high compression, and torque. the wheels didn't spin off the line, but i got a little too much jump from the lightweight nose, and that's how the body split. "KRUNK!" Got some high 12 second runs out of her, though. Even beat some Porches.

And if that can at all be related to BDSM, is that to me at least it's a complex mix of giving and taking that always happens in a relationship, just not so explicitly role-played. From my experience being a sub, the discipline wasn't about punishment or perfect obedience but pure submission. A meditation on surrender.

Okay, having a hot girlfriend that's into cars:

(Yes, Honeybee was supposed to be Bumblebee's little sister) threatens some guys, but only the ones with fragile masculinity, and toxic gender roles to begin with. Which means no femdom, but you don't want to go out with a Power Assertive Malignant Narcissist, anyway. He'll never let you turn a wrench in His car.

That's why it's BDSM, it's like LGBTI... Inclusive, not exclusive, "It takes all kinds." Bondage, and Discipline, Dominance/submission, Sadomasochism. Most of the rich power players I work with actually like being tied up, and fucked when they take their suit off, because at the end of the day, being in Control feels like work. They have to Control everything, to compete in the business world. I make a lot of money helping them unwind, and relax.

Of course, if the stories are to believed, "I'm a Dominant" means 24/7. "I don't make love, I fuck..." Being on, full time is fucking exhausting. 50 shades of "Meh" would have been a hell of a lot more believable if he was into Femdom, and showed her the ropes.

After all, he built that room for himself.

My fastest car, "Bunny" was a VW Rabbit, with the GTI suspension/steering geometry, and a supercharged VR6 from a Corrado welded in. I had to cut a lot out of that front end to bodge it all in, but I corrected the mistake by having the weight, and torque up front.

She blew the doors off of Mustangs, my girlfriend had a 928. (The last car Ferdinand Porsche worked on himself.) She put a cigar out on a guy's hand for touching her car.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Okay, having a hot girlfriend that's into cars:

(Yes, Honeybee was supposed to be Bumblebee's little sister) threatens some guys, but only the ones with fragile masculinity, and toxic gender roles to begin with. Which means no femdom, but you don't want to go out with a Power Assertive Malignant Narcissist, anyway. He'll never let you turn a wrench in His car.

That's why it's BDSM, it's like LGBTI... Inclusive, not exclusive, "It takes all kinds." Bondage, and Discipline, Dominance/submission, Sadomasochism. Most of the rich power players I work with actually like being tied up, and fucked when they take their suit off, because at the end of the day, being in Control feels like work. They have to Control everything, to compete in the business world. I make a lot of money helping them unwind, and relax.

Of course, if the stories are to believed, "I'm a Dominant" means 24/7. "I don't make love, I fuck..." Being on, full time is fucking exhausting. 50 shades of "Meh" would have been a hell of a lot more believable if he was into Femdom, and showed her the ropes.

After all, he built that room for himself.

My fastest car, "Bunny" was a VW Rabbit, with the GTI suspension/steering geometry, and a supercharged VR6 from a Corrado welded in. I had to cut a lot out of that front end to bodge it all in, but I corrected the mistake by having the weight, and torque up front.

She blew the doors off of Mustangs, my girlfriend had a 928. (The last car Ferdinand Porsche worked on himself.) She put a cigar out on a guy's hand for touching her car.

My mom's been compared to Lynda Carter before and kids would ask if she was Wonder Woman when the show first aired. It was before I was born, but apparently she'd just smile, wink and flash some bicep.
Most of her men have been successful, alpha males professionally who like a woman to take charge privately. Not that she can't be a demure, submissive 'lady', but it's not the side of her they're necessarily attracted to.
I only switch roles with other women- I prefer not to be in control with a man in the bedroom. In other areas, well, that's a different matter.
Honeybee sounds like it should be Bumblebees gf! And my nickname is Bunny

 

[psiberzerker]

Most of her men have been successful, alpha males professionally who like a woman to take charge privately. Not that she can't be a demure, submissive 'lady', but it's not the side of her they're necessarily attracted to.

Right, exactly. the myth is Tiger on Wall Street, Tiger in the sheets. The reality is more often Tiger on Wall Street, kitten in the sheets.

Men with power don't fantasize about being dominant. They don't have to, that's their Job. Work, it's men without power who can't give it up, and submit. (Go to a carpenter's house some day, and look at the door hanging off the hinges he can't be bother to fix on his way to the fridge.)

The "Alpha male" is a myth. Trying to live up to that unrealistic ideal, 24/7 drives mass murderers (Especially Family Annihilators), and cause triple bypass surgeries. It's not healthy.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Right, exactly. the myth is Tiger on Wall Street, Tiger in the sheets. The reality is more often Tiger on Wall Street, kitten in the sheets.

Men with power don't fantasize about being dominant. They don't have to, that's their Job. Work, it's men without power who can't give it up, and submit. (Go to a carpenter's house some day, and look at the door hanging off the hinges he can't be bother to fix on his way to the fridge.)

The "Alpha male" is a myth. Trying to live up to that unrealistic ideal, 24/7 drives mass murderers (Especially Family Annihilators), and cause triple bypass surgeries. It's not healthy.

She made a good deal of money at it too at one point (not sure if it was always trying men up, but she was a sex worker). Something she was too embarrassed to talk about for a while until some things shifted in our relationship and now sees, for the most part, as a point of pride.
And you're so right about 24/7 alpha males- a type I used to be very attracted to until big realized how destructive they really are to themselves and others. Some doms are just abusers with toys.

 

[psiberzerker]

BDSM is consensual, or it's something else. If they're abusers, they're not Doms. They're just abusers.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

BDSM is consensual, or it's something else. If they're abusers, they're not Doms. They're just abusers.

In my case, it was consensual abuse. Not saying that he was a proper 'dom', because my perspective at the time was too skewed, and I've never personally been into the 'scene', so I don't have much else to go on but my experiences. He had a high pressure job (surgeon) and one of those pillars of the community guys with skeletons in his closet who liked to seduce younger women into being his sub (a few at a time). I wrote a very Lit-like version of what I did with his wife once called The Other Woman, but I've never really wanted to write about him.

 

[psiberzerker]

In my case, it was consensual abuse.

I prefer a mutually abusive relationship, myself. Being a 24/7 absolute sub isn't any healthier.

 

[Farawyn]

The original comment was that it wasn't realistic how women are able to cum during rape.
The best course of argument is to point out that it's realistic enough, nodding towards how sexual organs work in real world.

KimGordon67
Farawyn
Are you going to follow my posts now, nay-ing me wherever I go?
You act like schoolgirls. It's just too bad that you are too old to be as cute.
If I irritate your tender souls - just shut up and ignore me.

We post here. This is our forum, too.
You post a lot. No way to avoid the threads you are in.
Stop being wrong and you’ll do better, beta.

 

[Alice_Rosaleen]

Being a 24/7 absolute sub isn't any healthier.

So I've found.
These days I have to spend a lot of time professionally trying to prove that a 'little lady' can design/code as competently as a man, so when I'm off work I like a lover who makes me feel good to be me as I am, no strings attached (though ropes may be).

 

[psiberzerker]

Stop being wrong and you’ll do better, beta.

Yeah, no. He's convinced that the clit is a button you can just spam long enough, and they will cum.

The elevator call button hypothesis of forced orgasms.

He's perfectly on topic. He had to have learned that from reading BDSM stories, because anyone who's actually operated a clitoris knows better.

He proved my point, beautifully.

 

[KimGordon67]

The original comment was that it wasn't realistic how women are able to cum during rape.
The best course of argument is to point out that it's realistic enough, nodding towards how sexual organs work in real world.

KimGordon67
Farawyn
Are you going to follow my posts now, nay-ing me wherever I go?
You act like schoolgirls. It's just too bad that you are too old to be as cute.
If I irritate your tender souls - just shut up and ignore me.

Oooo ... calling us 'old' and ugly. That's put us in our place.

It's an open forum, and as Far said, you're all over it. If our responses to your obvious wisdom are so upsetting for you, you could always just ignore us? Personally, I keep reading you because it's amusing. And useful to know that there are guys in the world who actually DO think like that.

 

[ausfet]

Back to the original topic, my conclusion is that Domme's rarely like, let alone love, their male subs.

 

[psiberzerker]

Back to the original topic, my conclusion is that Domme's rarely like, let alone love, their male subs.

This bugs me too, but I chalk it up to the parts they don't tell. It's a Fantasy, if he wants to be Humiliated, and it's told from her PoV (Or 3rd person Ominscient) then she could be Method Acting. Role playing, so it doesn't take much suspension of disbelief to imagine that she gets in Character, and stays in Character throughout.

I just usually like to tell the rest of it, if I can manage not to lose the reader. One of my problems with the typical BDSM story is that they don't show the long talk where you sit down before the scene, find out what the sub wants to fulfill their fantasy, and then afterwards the cool down.

It's anticlimactic, and also runs the risk of ruining the pacing. However, i think it's worth it, so people don't get the idea that you can jump right in, and satisfy someone right off the bat without prep. Or you can leave a sub satisfied, but alone without at least get them a glass of ice water. (Seriously, nothing better after a good hard scene. if you can, have a mini-fridge, or at least a cooler full of ice, and hydrate. It's a lot of work for both of you.)

There's a right way, and a wrong way to do this stuff. Unfortunately, lot of people skip the boring, but important parts, so the readers never learn them. Because TL: DR. I at least turn to the 4th wall, and nod to the reader so it's mentioned. For example: "I can't believe how long we just sat down, and talked..." That way, you don't give it away by him specifically requesting CBT, but at the same time at least note that the conversation already happened. As for the cooldown, the reader can just stop reading when it gets too anticlimatic.

 

[gracie920101]

Conclusions - 2 years later

Please remember these are tongue in cheek observations that are mine and mine alone!

Play nice folks!!!

1) Anal sex is always successful on the first attempt
2) Ditto DPs and fisting
3) The sub chases or hates the dom(me) at first then falls in love
4) The dom usually owns a perfect, tidy, and affordable but exclusive club or dungeon close by
5) Subs never have any experience with BDSM and must be trained from ground zero
6) Likewise, dom(me)s are never inexperienced or new to the lifestyle