Dirt cookies

[Guest]

the funny thing is if you are this upset why don't you ignore me and un subscribe to this thread etc. you don't need to get riled up. You're just going to be someone who doesn't understand victimization right now.. maybe later.

Once again, assumptions and arrogance.

In your other thread on the GB, yes, the one you were too -afraid? - to post here, Raidho said something very intelligent re: not idendifying one's self through their experiences.

I understand many things. I assert that you have no compassion or wisdom to head up such a simplistic rallying cry.

Offer workable solutions and proof that they work to the people of which you speak and then maybe someone here will take you seriously.

 

[sethp]

Once again, assumptions and arrogance.

In your other thread on the GB, yes, the one you were too -afraid? - to post here, Raidho said something very intelligent re: not idendifying one's self through their experiences.

I understand many things. I assert that you have no compassion or wisdom to head up such a simplistic rallying cry.

Offer workable solutions and proof that they work to the people of which you speak and then maybe someone here will take you seriously.

Things that do work and have worked in the past include..community groups. These groups clean up neighborhoods, start nieghborhood watch programs, start recycling programs and start mentoring groups. These are all free or almost free to start up and should be the first step.

Next the elected leaders, council, city officials, mayors, delegates...whatever is available should start partnership programs..whether it's a sister city program, or contacting corporations and businesses and non profit groups. There are hundreds of thousands of these groups, associations, organizations, corporations and business that could be contacted and many will work with local governments.

Next actual infrastructure. what are they doing with the money from the casino? I think it is making $20 million a year. A big chunk of that has to go back into the community. Paving streets, parks and playgrounds, street lights, public works such as sewer, electrical grid, and water pipe upgrades and then building libraries, schools and medical clinics..

Next. What government moneys are they eligable for? work on getting it and putting it to good use.

Next...How many residents are eligible for free or almost free college courses or certifications? A good chunk i'm sure ..and what still needs to be paid for can be suplimented from the casino.

This would mean perhaps sending people away for 4 years or more...and hoping that they will return with their skills to put back into the community. doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers, architects, IT and networking, communications, journalism and the list goes on.

Next--start researching successes that other impoverished communites have had and emulating it. The first that comes to mind is rural india. and micro banks, solar power initiatives and more...these ideas can all be implemented here in the united states.

these are just small first steps..the squeaky wheel gets the grease. have the people of pine ridge visited every single website, every single non profit group or relief organization, every government agency, every single community in the world that has similar problems and done every single thing they could think to do? No they haven't.

start on this list. Jeeesh does sethp need to save the world all by himself? I will If I have to.

 

[Guest]

Jeeesh does sethp need to save the world all by himself? I will If I have to.

Please, be my guest.

 

[sethp]

Please, be my guest.

I just started. please ask any questions if you need to. I just might make a trip to pine ridge. I think I should.

 

[cloudy]

I just started. please ask any questions if you need to. I just might make a trip to pine ridge. I think I should.

oh, by all means, do. You'd last about ten minutes.

What was the last reservation you lived on, seth? How 'bout the last reservation you even set foot on?

 

[sethp]

oh, by all means, do. You'd last about ten minutes.

What was the last reservation you lived on, seth? How 'bout the last reservation you even set foot on?

haven't lived on a reservation but have lived so far below the poverty line that we called it overty because we couldn't afford the p.

I do know that if the poor in india can improve their living conditions that it can be done at Pine Ridge and in Haiti. But stricktly speaking of Pine Ridge I laid the outline right there a few posts up. It just needs to be fleshed out and followed. There are succesful Tribes in America. The people of Pine Ridge need to get proactive and stop being reactive.

 

[shereads]

oh, by all means, do. You'd last about ten minutes.

What was the last reservation you lived on, seth? How 'bout the last reservation you even set foot on?

Put Junior on Ignore, Cloudy. You're wasting moments you'll never get back.

 

[cloudy]

haven't lived on a reservation but have lived so far below the poverty line that we called it overty because we couldn't afford the p.

I do know that if the poor in india can improve their living conditions that it can be done at Pine Ridge and in Haiti. But stricktly speaking of Pine Ridge I laid the outline right there a few posts up. It just needs to be fleshed out and followed. There are succesful Tribes in America. The people of Pine Ridge need to get proactive and stop being reactive.

Our culture isn't yours (thank god).

Go live on a rez for awhile, then come tell me all your "wonderful plans." Then, just possibly, I'll take you seriously.

Until then, you're so clueless it's ridiculous.

 

[sethp]

Put Junior on Ignore, Cloudy. You're wasting moments you'll never get back.

another great point. Instead of rising above victimhood you insult. lol

 

[cloudy]

Put Junior on Ignore, Cloudy. You're wasting moments you'll never get back.

True.

(I'd really like to egg him on enough to where he actually sets foot on a real rez. Then we'll be rid of him )

 

[sethp]

Our culture isn't yours (thank god).

Go live on a rez for awhile, then come tell me all your "wonderful plans." Then, just possibly, I'll take you seriously.

Until then, you're so clueless it's ridiculous.

Cloudy, why can't the people of Pine Ridge make life better for themselves? Isn't that what I'm really asking? Why don't you enlighten me...please.

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy, why can't the people of Pine Ridge make life better for themselves? Isn't that what I'm really asking? Why don't you enlighten me...please.

Spend some time there, get to know the people, learn what our culture is all about, and then, maybe, you'll understand what it's like to be native in this country. Then again, you may never understand. Your "solutions" all involve losing the little bit of "us" that the government has left us.

I can't enlighten you, as much as I'd like to. Until you've lived it, truly embraced it, you won't understand.

 

[shereads]

True.

(I'd really like to egg him on enough to where he actually sets foot on a real rez. Then we'll be rid of him )

No littering!

 

[sethp]

Spend some time there, get to know the people, learn what our culture is all about, and then, maybe, you'll understand what it's like to be native in this country. Then again, you may never understand.

I can't enlighten you, as much as I'd like to. Until you've lived it, truly embraced it, you won't understand.

I understand about "walking a mile in my shoes etc" but that doesn't really tell me why they can't carve out a better life ..make things right again. become prosperous.

I don't need to live on a reservation to know that the people of pine ridge have given up on life. It's not what the government has done to them or not done for them ..it's what they won't do for themselves.

You'll say that i'm insensitive and because i'm not native american I need to shut up and grow up...but that really isn't any information.

I don't need the reservation experience to know that they just don't want a better life.

You can't tell me that with some of that 20 million in casino money a year that they can't do anything.

 

[cloudy]

I understand about "walking a mile in my shoes etc" but that doesn't really tell me why they can't carve out a better life ..make things right again. become prosperous.

I don't need to live on a reservation to know that the people of pine ridge have given up on life. It's not what the government has done to them or not done for them ..it's what they won't do for themselves.

the bolded statement shows me you understand nothing. You don't know these people, haven't even met one of them, yet you say you "know" whatever about them.

Just shows exactly what you don't know.

You'll say that i'm insensitive and because i'm not native american I need to shut up and grow up...but that really isn't any information.

I don't need the reservation experience to know that they just don't want a better life.

You can't tell me that with some of that 20 million in casino money a year that they can't do anything.

The casino is just a start. For one thing, Pine Ridge is in the middle of nowhere - how do they attract customers to the casino?

There are deeper problems. For over two hundred years, we've lived under a government determined to do away with Indians. Oh, they don't give out small pox-infected blankets anymore, but the whole blood quantum thing is just another way to see to it that within a generation or so, there are no more indians, and the land they so grudgingly left to us can be taken back.

What about the land trust payments that are still owed? Where are those? Oops, all those documents were "accidentally" shredded.

The problems are so much more complicated than you want to realize. There is a culture of despair on a lot of reservations, and its not something that can be solved with simplistic solutions.

Oh, we can assimilate, become "white." Then there will be no more Indians, which is exactly what this country's been trying to do for two hundred years.

My great great grandmother walked the Trail of Tears - should I have to dishonor her journey, give up what little bit of my culture that I have left, simply to be able to live a life that is more than existence? I shouldn't have to, and that's what you're asking people to do.

 

[sethp]

the bolded statement shows me you understand nothing. You don't know these people, haven't even met one of them, yet you say you "know" whatever about them.

Just shows exactly what you don't know.



The casino is just a start. For one thing, Pine Ridge is in the middle of nowhere - how do they attract customers to the casino?

There are deeper problems. For over two hundred years, we've lived under a government determined to do away with Indians. Oh, they don't give out small pox-infected blankets anymore, but the whole blood quantum thing is just another way to see to it that within a generation or so, there are no more indians, and the land they so grudgingly left to us can be taken back.

What about the land trust payments that are still owed? Where are those? Oops, all those documents were "accidentally" shredded.

The problems are so much more complicated than you want to realize. There is a culture of despair on a lot of reservations, and its not something that can be solved with simplistic solutions.

Oh, we can assimilate, become "white." Then there will be no more Indians, which is exactly what this country's been trying to do for two hundred years.

now that was a good post. thank you.

It's hard not to seem simplistic in forum post. But the residents of pine ridge seem isolated. They aren't really reaching out wholeheartedly to other succesful tribes, native american communities etc. (I have been researching on the web) I know the government has been keeping them down with the The Dawes Act and the General Allotment Act and much more.

. I just don't like the Idea that man..any man, native american or not cannot fight back and win. They can. Maybe you can't get the money owed by the government. Maybe you can't get all the funding you need, maybe all the documents you really need have been shredded.

But what of the Cherokee for only one example and I quote

"Today, Cherokees are a strong and vital force in the United States. They are organized under what is known as the Cherokee Nation with its headquarters in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. They also have a strong and impressive role in the theater arts. They are regulars at the Sundance film festival and there are many famous actors, actresses, film producers and directors who are all members of the Cherokee Nation.

The Cherokee Nation has been a vital force in the employment of many tribal members. They also provide resources for many community, social, and economic programs and have caused the Cherokee people to regain independence and prosper."

That isn't just opinion or propaganda. that is fact. Look also at prosperous reservations in Arizona for example.

 

[cloudy]

now that was a good post. thank you.

It's hard not to seem simplistic in forum post. But the residents of pine ridge seem isolated. They aren't really reaching out wholeheartedly to other succesful tribes, native american communities etc. (I have been researching on the web) I know the government has been keeping them down with the The Dawes Act and the General Allotment Act and much more.

. I just don't like the Idea that man..any man, native american or not cannot fight back and win. They can. Maybe you can't get the money owed by the government. Maybe you can't get all the funding you need, maybe all the documents you really need have been shredded.

But what of the Cherokee for only one example and I quote

"Today, Cherokees are a strong and vital force in the United States. They are organized under what is known as the Cherokee Nation with its headquarters in Tahlequah, Oklahoma. They also have a strong and impressive role in the theater arts. They are regulars at the Sundance film festival and there are many famous actors, actresses, film producers and directors who are all members of the Cherokee Nation.

The Cherokee Nation has been a vital force in the employment of many tribal members. They also provide resources for many community, social, and economic programs and have caused the Cherokee people to regain independence and prosper."

That isn't just opinion or propaganda. that is fact. Look also at prosperous reservations in Arizona for example.

The Cherokee are also the largest enrolled tribe in the country, mostly because they will enroll up to 1/32 blood quantum (four times what other tribes will enroll). What they do isn't possible for the smaller tribes. They have about five or six times the number of enrolled members of any other nation.

eta: they've also had very good leadership - mainly Wilma Mankiller - and haven't had the internal problems that the Oglala have had (most of those caused by CoIntelpro and our own lovely government).

 

[sethp]

The Cherokee are also the largest enrolled tribe in the country, mostly because they will enroll up to 1/32 blood quantum (four times what other tribes will enroll). What they do isn't possible for the smaller tribes. They have about five or six times the number of enrolled members of any other nation.

eta: they've also had very good leadership - mainly Wilma Mankiller - and haven't had the internal problems that the Oglala have had (most of those caused by CoIntelpro and our own lovely government).

Isn't there a leader who will step up or at the very least won't the Cherokee help other tribes?

 

[oggbashan]

Isn't there a leader who will step up or at the very least won't the Cherokee help other tribes?

In a democracy the majority are supposed to protect and support the minorities. The majority's leader is the US's elected President.

What is his record on Native Americans?

Og

 

[sethp]

In a democracy the majority are supposed to protect and support the minorities. The majority's leader is the US's elected President.

What is his record on Native Americans?

Og

Really poor. He can't be relied on. And not to bash Mr. Bush but..have any of the presidents done anything. Very little. The president cannot help with this. will hillary or Barrack do anything to help? Maybe but...I doubt it.

 

[cloudy]

In a democracy the majority are supposed to protect and support the minorities. The majority's leader is the US's elected President.

What is his record on Native Americans?

Og

There is no record....no one cares.

 

[oggbashan]

There is no record....no one cares.

I do.

Og

 

[cloudy]

I do.

Og

I know you do.

 

[shereads]

I do.

Og

North America long ago adopted an 'out of sight, out of mind' attitude toward the original occupants of this continent. We get all warm and fuzzy once a year when school children are treated to a retelling of the first Thanksgiving, when native Americans who had helped the Pilgrims survive a harsh year were thanked with an invitation to the harvest feast.

It's a lovely story. Not so the one about the "gift" of smallpox-contaminated blankets that helped wipe out one New England tribe. And we don't hear so much about all the peace treaties our government made and broke, in order to get native Americans to settle for bits of the arid land and swamp that nobody else wanted.

~ ~ ~

Speaking of land nobody else used to want...casinos on tribal lands have certainly been an economic boon to what's left of South Florida's Miccosukee and Seminole tribes. (People claiming tribal ancestry began coming out of the woodwork a decade or so ago, when one of the tribes announced that every household on the reservation would receive an equal share of annual casino profits.) There's a built-in tourist market and a substantial population of local gambler-wannabes, so unlike Pine Ridge the casinos have no problem selling their product.

But - correct me if I'm wrong here, Cloudy - it seems as if the casino culture may hasten the demise of tribal culture. Case in point: TV commercials advertising The Miccosukee Hard Rock Hotel and Casino.

Of course, hungry people don't much care whether the rest of us find their culture quaint and authentic and picturesque.

 

[sethp]

so it begins...

The idea of the starving masses driven by their desperation to take to the streets and overthrow the ancien regime has seemed impossibly quaint since capitalism triumphed so decisively in the Cold War. Since then, the spectacle of hunger sparking revolutionary violence has been the stuff of Broadway musicals rather than the real world of politics. And yet, the headlines of the past month suggest that skyrocketing food prices are threatening the stability of a growing number of governments around the world. Ironically, it may be the very success of capitalism in transforming regions previously restrained by various forms of socialism that has helped create the new crisis.

Haiti is in flames as food riots have turned into a violent challenge to the vulnerable government; Egypt's authoritarian regime faces a mounting political threat over its inability to maintain a steady supply of heavily subsidized bread to its impoverished citizens; Cote D'Ivoire, Cameroon, Mozambique, Uzbekistan, Yemen and Indonesia are among the countries that have recently seen violent food riots or demonstrations. World Bank president Robert Zoellick noted last week that world food prices had risen 80% over the past three years, and warned that at least 33 countries face social unrest as a result.


I know I don't know everything but...I told you the people of haiti could get sick of it and rise up against the unjust regime and take control of thier lives. They are doing it.

People everyone are doing this.