Ravenloft
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Discussion: Dungeons & Dragons 4th edition.
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thewhiteone
For the Empire!
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Before my time. My dad watched them.
Saw them in a commercial like 8 years ago. Don't remember much of it, just that it was good.
Saw them in a commercial like 8 years ago. Don't remember much of it, just that it was good.
Ravenloft
Sweet Rogue
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*Laments my lost youth.*
I have a question on 4th rules.
Blasts and bursts... If they are both ranged, what the hell is the difference? Like a blast 5, you set its starting square within the powers range, say, 10. Then it ?blossoms? out from the center, encasing the area? So, five squares out in all directions? Bursts, move out from the origin square in an L to encase the area?
Urgh, I could better illustrate if I only had a paintable grid. LOL.
I have a question on 4th rules.
Blasts and bursts... If they are both ranged, what the hell is the difference? Like a blast 5, you set its starting square within the powers range, say, 10. Then it ?blossoms? out from the center, encasing the area? So, five squares out in all directions? Bursts, move out from the origin square in an L to encase the area?
Urgh, I could better illustrate if I only had a paintable grid. LOL.
thewhiteone
For the Empire!
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Meesa haven't a clue. Meesa no likea Fourth. (Yes I just watched Episode 1)
thewhiteone
For the Empire!
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You know what the sad thing is? I'm already lamenting my lost youth. I find games that I still have in the Buried Treasures sections of gaming magazines!
That and the fact that I'm as old as my favorite childhood movie (which I still enjoy), Transformers: The Movie.
That and the fact that I'm as old as my favorite childhood movie (which I still enjoy), Transformers: The Movie.
Sean Renaud
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I'm still learning so let me look it up and get back to you to 100% certain but as I understand it a burst starts at you as the souce. Think of it as fire breathing. It hits a 3x3 or a 5x5 grid but you have to be at the source.
A blast instead starts at a spot of your choosing within your range. Consider it a grenade or a fireball.
You shoulda lika 4th, it's the best one yet. (well to be fair I didn't play 1st Edition so maybe that version was better) but fourth is pretty fucking boss.
Wow, is it really that bad? Have they really devolved that much from 3rd ed?
Sorry, I haven't looked at 4th ed yet. I assume they still have dwarfs and sorceresses?! I need my two favorite types of chars! LOL
Actually, I did play a Celestial once in 2nd ed and once in 3rd ed; they were pretty cool, but i much prefer a dwarf or a human sorceress.
And of course...I'm always evil. 
Last edited:
Sean Renaud
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They still have dwarves, sorceress, bard, barbarian and monk all got the axe.
The new wizards are basically sorcerors though so that's no loss.
4th is easily better than third because 3rd was riddled with fuck ups. So many that WoTC brought 3.5 out after only three years, and then 4th a few years later cus it was was busted it couldn't be fixed.
The new wizards are basically sorcerors though so that's no loss.
4th is easily better than third because 3rd was riddled with fuck ups. So many that WoTC brought 3.5 out after only three years, and then 4th a few years later cus it was was busted it couldn't be fixed.
GratefulFred
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If the 4th edition is way to much you may want to check out my satirical D&D stories for a break in the action. Set for a 10 part mini series.
D&D Breakfast Club - Ch. 01
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=372611
D&D Breakfast Club - Ch. 02
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=373054
I promise not to include any referrences beyond the 3rd edition.
D&D Breakfast Club - Ch. 01
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=372611
D&D Breakfast Club - Ch. 02
http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=373054
I promise not to include any referrences beyond the 3rd edition.
Ravenloft
Sweet Rogue
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Whiteone... Dare, dare to believe you can survive, because you've got the touch, you've got the POWER!
Also...
bah weep granah weep ninny bong!
*Offering you an energon chip.*
Hey Sean, I know thats how close bursts work, but they also have ranged bursts. Most of them are tied to zones, if I am not mistaken. But yeah, there are close bursts and blasts, and ALSO ranged bursts and blasts.
Kryslez, I don't think its all that bad, I would make a hand full of house rules, but all in all, they have made 4th edition into a pretty smooth tactical simulation of fantasy combat. Notice that I am not willing to still call it role playing? LOL!
Back to Sean, I have the feeling that they WILL be releasing information to play all those classes as well, in... VOL. TWO of the PHB! *Lamenting my empty wallet* They've already given us a work up of the illusionist and the artificer *Playtest version for a class exclusive to Ebberon* in the online dragon mag.
Also...
bah weep granah weep ninny bong!
*Offering you an energon chip.*
Hey Sean, I know thats how close bursts work, but they also have ranged bursts. Most of them are tied to zones, if I am not mistaken. But yeah, there are close bursts and blasts, and ALSO ranged bursts and blasts.
Kryslez, I don't think its all that bad, I would make a hand full of house rules, but all in all, they have made 4th edition into a pretty smooth tactical simulation of fantasy combat. Notice that I am not willing to still call it role playing? LOL!
Back to Sean, I have the feeling that they WILL be releasing information to play all those classes as well, in... VOL. TWO of the PHB! *Lamenting my empty wallet* They've already given us a work up of the illusionist and the artificer *Playtest version for a class exclusive to Ebberon* in the online dragon mag.
Sean Renaud
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I played a fighter and I'm not DMing right now so I haven't entirely figured it all out cus I haven't cover to cover read it. I'm loving the new combat though since the encounter and daily powers really improve combat to above hack and slash and allows for strategy that aren't just broken. I'm sure your familar with the famous bag o'rats and whirlwind cleave attack from 3.0? That shit don't fly no more.
I'm sure they will expand the classes with PHBII and probably some filler stuff before that. I'm just hoping they stick with this one for a while I feel like I just barely finished getting all of the 3rd edition crap and now it's dated.
I'm sure they will expand the classes with PHBII and probably some filler stuff before that. I'm just hoping they stick with this one for a while I feel like I just barely finished getting all of the 3rd edition crap and now it's dated.
Ravenloft
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Never heard of that bag o' rats thing... Care to enlighten me?
Yep, that's the hope and fear I think everyone is having, hope that they don't go 4.5 in three years, and 5th in ten. My prediction is that they will publish everything they have in all the previous editions, using 4th rules, then launch 5th. I'm betting on ten years here.
Yep, that's the hope and fear I think everyone is having, hope that they don't go 4.5 in three years, and 5th in ten. My prediction is that they will publish everything they have in all the previous editions, using 4th rules, then launch 5th. I'm betting on ten years here.
Sean Renaud
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As long as there isn't 4.5 in between ten years is fine for me.
Ok it's a chain of feats that work together. Rats are a tiny creature which means you can fit up 16 in a square. Player A, or better yet team A surrounds theri figher with rats (or really anything tiny) Fighter uses whirlwind attack attacking all targets surrounding him and killing them all with a single attack.
Greater Cleave allows him to immediately make an attack on another creature within rang, like say a dragon. If he acted alone and it was say 16 rats, well that's 16 attacks against said dragon that round. It's a gross abuse of the system and something where any GM worth a damn tells you to eat a dick but still.
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html
Points out clearly the huge problem with diplomacy. The same thing goes for tumble, it pretty much eliminates attacks of opportunity from the game plus allows you to move through enemy squares.
Spiked Chain, spring and combat reflexes are another bullshit thing. Basically you attack on your turn them move away, your opponent pursues but you have a reach weapon and get an attack of opportunity so you basically get two attacks for every one he gets.
3.5 got to clever for it's own good at times. Doesn't make it a bad system I enjoyed 3 and it fixed a lot of problems from 2, but it wasn't perfect. 4 has some obvious problems of its own and some more that we don't know about yet.
Healing Surges are however not one of them, unless you were used to running Zombie Infestation plots and the entire story was based around your heroes always being to beat up to do anything.
Ok it's a chain of feats that work together. Rats are a tiny creature which means you can fit up 16 in a square. Player A, or better yet team A surrounds theri figher with rats (or really anything tiny) Fighter uses whirlwind attack attacking all targets surrounding him and killing them all with a single attack.
Greater Cleave allows him to immediately make an attack on another creature within rang, like say a dragon. If he acted alone and it was say 16 rats, well that's 16 attacks against said dragon that round. It's a gross abuse of the system and something where any GM worth a damn tells you to eat a dick but still.
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html
Points out clearly the huge problem with diplomacy. The same thing goes for tumble, it pretty much eliminates attacks of opportunity from the game plus allows you to move through enemy squares.
Spiked Chain, spring and combat reflexes are another bullshit thing. Basically you attack on your turn them move away, your opponent pursues but you have a reach weapon and get an attack of opportunity so you basically get two attacks for every one he gets.
3.5 got to clever for it's own good at times. Doesn't make it a bad system I enjoyed 3 and it fixed a lot of problems from 2, but it wasn't perfect. 4 has some obvious problems of its own and some more that we don't know about yet.
Healing Surges are however not one of them, unless you were used to running Zombie Infestation plots and the entire story was based around your heroes always being to beat up to do anything.
Sean Renaud
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Honestly it just falls under the range of things where a good DM just reaches across the table and slaps the player for cheating. This isn't fucking GTA where you are rewarded for figuring out some way to phase through a wall.
cats
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Option A: you can't do that, or Option B: The dragon has 16 friends.
The only broke trick I used was the improved crit. scimitar feat with a keen vorpal scimitar. I miss it oddly 50% chance to remove a head. Mind you lots of undead and hydras are the counter point.
My beef once more is all characters seem to similar in terms of mechanics. Arcane and divine spells are now one and no different from a fighters tricks. I liked how the spells were different, rouges used skills mainly and fighters used feats. Then I also liked psionics, incarum, martial adepts, and the factotum.
So my group finished its first levels worth of quests. So I want to bring up magic items and the treasure set up.
The only broke trick I used was the improved crit. scimitar feat with a keen vorpal scimitar. I miss it oddly 50% chance to remove a head. Mind you lots of undead and hydras are the counter point.
My beef once more is all characters seem to similar in terms of mechanics. Arcane and divine spells are now one and no different from a fighters tricks. I liked how the spells were different, rouges used skills mainly and fighters used feats. Then I also liked psionics, incarum, martial adepts, and the factotum.
So my group finished its first levels worth of quests. So I want to bring up magic items and the treasure set up.
Sean Renaud
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I'm half in love and half pissed about the magic system. I hate the change to Paladins, I kinda like wizards now. I love ritual magic and felt for a long time that should be part of the game.
thewhiteone
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Vorpral only works on a nat 20, not the threat range. In 3.5 they stopped keen and Imp Crit from stacking.
Ravenloft
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Correct me if I'm wrong guys, but basically all rituals are are the spells that have long casting times and have little combat value... Right?
I can see what you're saying about everyone feeling kind of like similar builds, but thats only because we have received the bare bones powers collection so far. Over the following years, they'll publish more than enough options to flesh things out and give us the sense of diversity we're currently kind of short on. I mean, look, dragon mag online has already given the advanced write up on warforged and artificer, as well as support for playing illusionists.
We will be seeing all the rest of the old classes most likely in PHB II, bard, barbarian, monk, sorcerer... What I would like to see is an actual distinction for specialized wizards, and the way they presented illusionist, I have a feeling they may do just that.
In all previous editions, the only thing you got for being say, an evoker, or enchanter were a couple of bonus spells, and a small bonus to your focus schools spells... My hope is that they will write these schools up as separate entities, like they presented the illusionist in dragon. So, the only way to do certain school specific powers is to be specialized as necromancer, or what have you.
Thats something that has never been done to my knowledge before. Spells were spells, and it didn't matter what school you came from, if you found the text, you could use it, effectively making it retarded to specialize, which actually LOCKED you out of certain schools of magic as an opposing school... The bonus didn't make up for the negative.
Oh, and has anyone noticed... 4th ed = no negatives to your race/class choices?
I mean, even weapon profs now... If you're proficient, you get a bonus, if you're not, eh, no big.
I can see what you're saying about everyone feeling kind of like similar builds, but thats only because we have received the bare bones powers collection so far. Over the following years, they'll publish more than enough options to flesh things out and give us the sense of diversity we're currently kind of short on. I mean, look, dragon mag online has already given the advanced write up on warforged and artificer, as well as support for playing illusionists.
We will be seeing all the rest of the old classes most likely in PHB II, bard, barbarian, monk, sorcerer... What I would like to see is an actual distinction for specialized wizards, and the way they presented illusionist, I have a feeling they may do just that.
In all previous editions, the only thing you got for being say, an evoker, or enchanter were a couple of bonus spells, and a small bonus to your focus schools spells... My hope is that they will write these schools up as separate entities, like they presented the illusionist in dragon. So, the only way to do certain school specific powers is to be specialized as necromancer, or what have you.
Thats something that has never been done to my knowledge before. Spells were spells, and it didn't matter what school you came from, if you found the text, you could use it, effectively making it retarded to specialize, which actually LOCKED you out of certain schools of magic as an opposing school... The bonus didn't make up for the negative.
Oh, and has anyone noticed... 4th ed = no negatives to your race/class choices?
I mean, even weapon profs now... If you're proficient, you get a bonus, if you're not, eh, no big.
Sean Renaud
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They might look similar on paper but functionally they are still very different animals. One of my gripes right now is that fighters really are meat sheilds now, they even have abilities that discourage monsters from attacking anybody but them.
Being proficient giving you a bonus is functionally the same as not being proficient giving you a disadvantage. Even in third any weapon or armor you were supposed to have your class started (which makes it kinda annoying that Fighters don'g et plate mail from the get go unlike Paladins.) Unless you wanna to back and start talking about second where you actually needed profiencies then that debate doesn't really matter.
Being proficient giving you a bonus is functionally the same as not being proficient giving you a disadvantage. Even in third any weapon or armor you were supposed to have your class started (which makes it kinda annoying that Fighters don'g et plate mail from the get go unlike Paladins.) Unless you wanna to back and start talking about second where you actually needed profiencies then that debate doesn't really matter.
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