Do people really slam stories intentionally?

[HedbangerSA]

Why Post?

Oooh! And it gets worse! Two more votes and I'm down to a 4.65. Spank me again, harder!

 

[openthighs_sarah]

Re: Same old same...

I am soooooo tired of hearing this one line answer by credited authors here. You opened the story up, but you didn't like it so you left without voting. And then you can't figure out why this story gets on the top lists and yours doesn't? Give me a break. If you can't finish it, for what ever reason, at least vote accordingly. I had presumed that most of the authors in here were responcible adults. As real authors then we, more than anyone else have the responcibility to vote properly on ever story we open.

Everyone else in the thread has supplied good answers to the original question, so I would just like to address DirtMan's point, quoted above. And let me start by saying that I'm speaking for no one but myself, here.

I get paid nothing for posting stories on this site. The feedback is at times wonderful, strange, inexplicable, frightening and arousing. But it is not why I write. I write and I post because I'm a writer and it's what I love. As for the votes -- no matter how much I may enjoy seeing a new story score very high, I find it very hard to take the score seriously in any way. I also have very little interest in winning (or even entering) contests -- maybe if I did, I would be more conscious of the consequences of not voting on a story.

As a reader... hell, this is entertainment. My time is the most valuable thing I have, and (on this site, anyway) the most valuable thing I have to offer. Spending one extra second on a story I don't like is wrong, morally and pragmatically; voting on a story that I haven't even bothered to finish is wrong; so I don't do it. It's a simple equation: every second I spend on junk is one less second I spend doing something I might enjoy, and the opportunity cost of reading garbage is just way too high. I know there are consequences for this, and I'm okay with that.

Not voting on a story, to me, is the same as not reading it -- I've removed it from my mind. I'm certainly not going to go through every story on the site just to try to help balance the scales a little -- again, it's the opportunity cost. I give what I have to the authors I love, and that's the full extent of my responsibility. And I see no gray area there...

 

[MathGirl]

ITYS

Oooh! And it gets worse! Two more votes and I'm down to a 4.65.

I'm not going to say that I told you so, but I did. Tell you so, that is.
Helpfully,
MG

 

[HedbangerSA]

It's a simple equation: every second I spend on junk is one less second I spend doing something I might enjoy, and the opportunity cost of reading garbage is just way too high.

My sentiments exactly. When I first started reading here I felt like I should slog through a really bad story if I opened it. What a colossal waste of time (both me reading them, and the author's writing them). Now I tend to pick the stories that are rated decently, and also read all the stories posted by the authors I like. But if I get several paragraphs in and a story doesn't interest me I leave, and am not going to worry about my not voting allowing that bad story to win some contest. I can't imagine that a really bad story would ever win anyway (no one has that many friends), and if they do it doesn't really hurt me because I'm not interested in the contests.
I wish that the site would allow authors to flag their stories as not eligible for any contest - so the people who feel a need to trash vote a new story that's doing well wouldn't feel threatened. But I guess just having a high vote average is threatening for some.

 

[HedbangerSA]

Yes, you told me so!

I'm not going to say that I told you so, but I did. Tell you so, that is.
Helpfully,
MG

I'm duly chastened, MG. I bow to your greater wisdom, but it was fun being naive and full of hope for a little while there. Sigh. I should have printed out the toplist page while I had the chance!

 

[openthighs_sarah]

I wish that the site would allow authors to flag their stories as not eligible for any contest - so the people who feel a need to trash vote a new story that's doing well wouldn't feel threatened. But I guess just having a high vote average is threatening for some.

It makes me snicker to think of some bozo going in and undervoting a story intentionally, placing so much importance on the scores... but it's the anonymity of it that makes it possible.

Someone once told me that if God hadn't "made" the ten commandments, no one would ever behave in an ethical way. To which I responded... "What were you saying, again?" Maybe some people really do need a parental figure keeping them in line all the time...

I just came up with an idea, though (but I'm sure it's been mentioned in some form before). In order to vote on a story, the reader has to pass a reading comprehension test designed by the author. 1) How many cocks did Sally take in her ass during the gang bang? 2) Who said, "Oh, fuck... oh, jesus... Aaaaaaaaaaagghhhh." 3) Are you undervoting this story out of simple maliciousness? Now that I think about it, this would be a good thing to adopt with our national elections, too. In order to vote, you have to demonstrate normal human intelligence and an understanding of the issues... (Which president said, "Oh, fuck... oh, jesus...." etc.)

 

[HedbangerSA]

Great Idea!

Originally posted by Openthighs_Sarah
I just came up with an idea, though (but I'm sure it's been mentioned in some form before). In order to vote on a story, the reader has to pass a reading comprehension test designed by the author. 1) How many cocks did Sally take in her ass during the gang bang? 2) Who said, "Oh, fuck... oh, jesus... Aaaaaaaaaaagghhhh." 3) Are you undervoting this story out of simple maliciousness? Now that I think about it, this would be a good thing to adopt with our national elections, too. In order to vote, you have to demonstrate normal human intelligence and an understanding of the issues... (Which president said, "Oh, fuck... oh, jesus...." etc.)

As a Florida resident, I can agree wholeheartedly with the second half of this, but I'm afraid that in some states this might leave no one eligible to vote. Indiana, for example.
I don't think it would bother me as much for someone to give me a "1" out of the blue if I felt they'd at least read the story. I just can't fathom the mentality that looks at a story and sees a high rating and gets negative feelings about it. When I see a high score next to someone's listing I say "good for them!" Like I said earlier in this thread, this is not a zero sum game. We can all do well, right?
Now I'll have to reread all of openthighs_sarah's stories so I'll know the answers to her questions, just in case I'm quizzed (especially that Sally one...) Can't think of much I'd rather do with an afternoon anyway!

 

[openthighs_sarah]

Re: Great Idea!

Now I'll have to reread all of openthighs_sarah's stories so I'll know the answers to her questions, just in case I'm quizzed (especially that Sally one...)

Oh, that Sally is a real whore. Just pick the highest number in the list and you're bound to be correct...

 

[curious2c]

My first story...well I worked on it hard...no spelling errors but someone wrote to me in feedback that I needed to get my quotation mark usage right. They gave me a one. I was upset at first, then after reading my story as presented...I would have given myself a one also. They gave precise feedback and voted accordingly. I will always be greatful for that because it taught me...humility.

 

[jfinn]

But if I get several paragraphs in and a story doesn't interest me I leave, and am not going to worry about my not voting allowing that bad story to win some contest. I can't imagine that a really bad story would ever win anyway (no one has that many friends), and if they do it doesn't really hurt me because I'm not interested in the contests.
I wish that the site would allow authors to flag their stories as not eligible for any contest - so the people who feel a need to trash vote a new story that's doing well wouldn't feel threatened. But I guess just having a high vote average is threatening for some.

If you turn off the voting on your stories, you also waive your entry into any contests, but I suppose that really isn't going to help you much. However, I don't think you should let this whole voting thing get to you. My own take on it is that everybody has the same thing happened to them with low votes. Maybe it is some conspiracy, but I'm more inclined to believe when you have as many people reading on a site like this one, you're bound to have a few that like to skew the votes just for fun. Also, since it does happen to all of us, I guess I think that sort of levels the playing field and so I don't pay all that much attention to it myself.

In fact, I've taken to not even looking at the scores on a new post until they've been up for a week or two. That way, I figure the damage has been done already and I don't have to worry about seeing my good scores shot down. By that time too, I've found that whatever damage may have been done has disappeared. At least it seems to me that my long term scores look about right.

As for the contests, well, I'm still not quite sure how they're figured, but it's also something I don't worry about too much. I know when I won something a couple of months ago, I didn't even know I was in the running until a reader sent me an email and told me congratulations. LOL So in my case, I know it wasn't me who was fixing votes and if someone else did it for me then all I can say is, "Thanks!"

Jayne

 

[HedbangerSA]

Voting

Jayne,
I guess not having any voting would be even worse - no feedback would probably leave me suspecting the worst. I like your idea of not checking the voting for a couple of weeks (I wish I had your will power). Once the vote totals get fairly high all the volatility seems to go away - one vote can't slam you as much. Since I'm assuming that this site has software that prevents someone from voting more than once on a story, the limited number of jerks can only do so much damage. Then over time maybe it does even itself out.
I'll check out your stories - and I promise I'll read all the way to the end and vote!!

 

[HedbangerSA]

Great Idea...

Originally posted by openthighs_sarah
Oh, that Sally is a real whore. Just pick the highest number in the list and you're bound to be correct...

Naughty Sally!! You better see to it that she's properly punished!

 

[sweetnpetite]

This is a matter of faith for you, right? Yet if you don't vote, why should they? If you only vote for good stories, why shouldn't they? Nope, that just doesn't wash with me, sorry. If you opened the story, then you should vote on it. Good, or bad. There is no gray area on this.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

hi dirtman.

what if you open a story that looks promising is well writen but contains elements that just don't turn you on, or turn you right off? Like you where cool with BDSM until they started adding some water sports or face slapping or stomach punches or whatever you don't like? Would you still vote and how would you vote? I can't vote on a good story that I don't enjoy because its not my thing. One time I read a story like this and I sent feedback that the story was good but not my bag of chips, but I didn't vote. And I'm not sorry about it. What would you say to this?

 

[sweetnpetite]

vote tampering

I haven't had it happen to me, becuase my stories are all at a non-threatening 4.5 or below. I barely got my little H on the last one I posted. However my guy posted one of his. He has something like 15 votes and a score of 5.0 (Yes, I was green with envy) and the next thing you know, someones giving him 5 ones. Now I can' t believe that 15 people thaought the story was the shit, and the next 5 just thought it was shit. I really didn't believe that it happened til I saw it with my own eyes. I've been told that if you suspect its happening you can contact Laural and she can track the votes or something, but he's not too concerned. Yea, he was upset at first, but the stories doing pretty well and he's started to get some feedback, so he's not trippin.

 

[Dirt Man]

The truth isa matter of relativity...

what if you open a story that looks promising is well writen but contains elements that just don't turn you on, or turn you right off? Like you where cool with BDSM until they started adding some water sports or face slapping or stomach punches or whatever you don't like? Would you still vote and how would you vote? I can't vote on a good story that I don't enjoy because its not my thing. One time I read a story like this and I sent feedback that the story was good but not my bag of chips, but I didn't vote. And I'm not sorry about it. What would you say to this?

I've run into the same thing many times. Not being into men when I come upon a sex scene involving two men, I just skip over it, and continue to read. It's like pushing the Fast Forward button on the VCR. If you don't like something do that, and then vote accordingly on what you did read. Sex scenes are ambiguous at best, but it's the story that you're voting on, not just the sex scenes. After all as you say you were drawn in by the BDSM slant, so judge it on that. Was it well thought out, well written, part of the plot, tacky, unreadable, brilliantly portrayed?

As a reader... hell, this is entertainment. My time is the most valuable thing I have, and (on this site, anyway) the most valuable thing I have to offer. Spending one extra second on a story I don't like is wrong, morally and pragmatically; voting on a story that I haven't even bothered to finish is wrong; so I don't do it.

Consider a vote pretty much like your currency at literotica. Now think of Literotica as a book store at your favorite Mall, or Airport that you happen to be traveling through. If after opening the book, magazine, short story, etc. and glancing through it you immediately put it back as too incredibly stupid for words then that's the same as voting no way would I purchase this, and you say so with a 1, or 2 vote. If you've read a couple of paragraphs and find the subject, while well written, isn't what you were really looking for, then vote a neutral 4, or 3. A 4 will never hurt any rating here. And this can all be done after reading just two paragraphs of anything on this site. You don't have to read the whole story to vote on it. An agent knows if they are going to sell a book after reading the first two paragraphs, and so does anybody that reads.

I haven't had it happen to me, becuase my stories are all at a non-threatening 4.5 or below. I barely got my little H on the last one I posted. However my guy posted one of his. He has something like 15 votes and a score of 5.0 (Yes, I was green with envy) and the next thing you know, someones giving him 5 ones. Now I can' t believe that 15 people thaought the story was the shit, and the next 5 just thought it was shit. I really didn't believe that it happened til I saw it with my own eyes. I've been told that if you suspect its happening you can contact Laural and she can track the votes or something, but he's not too concerned. Yea, he was upset at first, but the stories doing pretty well and he's started to get some feedback, so he's not trippin.

I watched this happen to no less than three of my own stories. They were either running 5's, or 4.95 at the time that this happened to them. The first five 1's hit bing bang boom, then a little later a sixth 1, 2, or three hits squashing any hope for the story to ever get above 4.5 in a month's time. Some are just now recovering after three months, and range around 4.81 after 159 votes, and 50,000 reads. Does it do any good to complain? Well, read all of the messages above this one, and you'll see that it doesn't. Why? Well, maybe the truth is that some of those against voting are the ones blitzkrieging us, and maybe it isn't, but they aren't helping the matter by their complacency about not voting on a story because they haven't read it all the way through either. In fact they are aiding these assailents even if unwittingly so by not voting. And that's the truth of it.

Case in point:
KillerMuffin, whose stories are amongst the most read doesn't have even one of her stories on the high voting average, and that's just plain idiotic if you've ever read her work.


As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man

 

[MathGirl]

Voting/feedback

If you turn off the voting on your stories, you also waive your entry into any contests

I didn't allow voting on the last little piece I posted. There seemed to be more reader feedback than my other stuff. It seems that if readers can't vote, they're more likely to send feedback.

MG

 

[HedbangerSA]

Vote Tampering

Originally posted by Sweetnpetite
I've been told that if you suspect its happening you can contact Laural and she can track the votes or something, but he's not too concerned.

I guess your guy is much less Type A than I am - I don't care about contests, but I do like to see the stuff I spent a lot of time on appreciated - included in the voting. Yeah, you can say that the jerks that do this don't matter, that their vote wasn't meaningful to anything (do people think it's the same people each time? Otherwise how in the world could Laurel investigate? How does she know if they read the story or voted honestly?) More than anything else it bothers me that people would be systematically malicious like that, particularly if they are writers who know how much work is involved in preparing something for submission.

BTW Dirtman, I agree on KillerMuffin. I'm reading her stories now and it seems very strange that they don't score better. Every one I've read is excellent.

 

[openthighs_sarah]

Re: The truth isa matter of relativity...

Well, maybe the truth is that some of those against voting are the ones blitzkrieging us, and maybe it isn't, but they aren't helping the matter by their complacency about not voting on a story because they haven't read it all the way through either. In fact they are aiding these assailents even if unwittingly so by not voting. And that's the truth of it.

Imagine, for a moment, that I've never even visited Literotica. My votes (and views) are non-existent. Am I still aiding these mythical assailants? No one else in my immediate family has ever visited the site (to my knowledge). Should I tell them to stop being part of the problem, too? There are probably a number of other story sites that use a similar voting system, and I've never even heard of them. How much unknown damage am I causing to those authors' egos?

To which I have to respond: Are you serious? It's not complacency, it's common sense. If I'm in a grocery store and I buy one kind of peanut butter, am I required to smash all the competitors onto the floor at the same time? No? Well, how can I possibly be responsible for voting on a story that I probably should never have opened in the first place? And what if I open a story by mistake, when I meant to click on the one above it? Has a moral obligation suddenly descended on me to vote for the story?

Sorry. If that's the truth of it, I don't see it at all. No one should have that much emotional investment in a voting system which is completely anonymous and completely free of consequences. It has to be for amusement and entertainment only, or else it's just silly.

 

[gauchecritic]

conversely

Taking Dirtman's point about always voting because you opened the story, surely if it's you're duty to vote on every single story you read good, bad, indifferent or unreadable because of the affect on overall scores, then it follows by this reasoning you also have to read every story on the site in every category.

As for the gangs of people who down vote, no one has mentioned the fact that it could quite easily be one person with lots of id's.


Unless they have more power/ingenuity than I credit them with here's a complete list of all the people who deliberately low score other authors;

e l

o m i

p

l f

s t r

n g

w f l

t p

k a v

Gauche

 

[gauchecritic]

It's a Joke

 

[Pyro]

Votes

I have to say I don't pay much attention to the votes, but I do like to read the feedback I get. The only person I've ever gotten a "you suck" response from was my ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend, the doorMatt. Sometimes authors get crappy feedback from jerks in the chatrooms that just don't like them.

I do need to say that I've read a LOT of crap on here that I just couldn't finish. On one hand, I agree with the post that said "Why should I waste my time?" On the other hand, it only takes a few seconds to move to the end of the story and give it a 1 or 2.

I have generally found the "Top Lists" to be a fairly decent indicator of good writing. Yes, I've found some turkeys in the top lists and I will knock them down with a rating they truly deserve, but for the most part, any story rating above a "4" is usually pretty good. And if I really like a story or think that the plot is good, but needs something, I'll send feedback to the author.

Part of it is, I think, that people don't know how to give a good critique. Giving a good critique, no matter what you scored the story, should let the author know that you thought the story was good enough to read it all the way through, saw some potential there (and that is a big key... the story MUST have some potential!), and then give them some pointers on how to make it a GREAT story.

Yes, very few stories I've read score a "5" because of obvious typos. My biggest beef is folks that use "Than" when they mean "Then" as well as some other obvious mistakes that a read-through or two for proofreading would have corrected.

Tense and POV (Point Of View) is another area where most writers fall down, going from past tense to present or third person to first person or vice versa.

I will usually send my draft off to a friend for a quick critique before posting it. If you don't have friends that will read it, take advantage of the volunteer editors here! They are great!

I actually believe that people writing sucky work type the story directly onto the submission page and send it off without even glancing at it. This may be fun to do in the chatrooms when writing spontaneous stuff, but is not a good thing to do in the more permanent format!!!

By being polite and actually trying to help the authors here, I've made a lot of good friends. Too often though, there are jerks that simply get off on dragging others down to their level in the muck.

Keep in mind what we are all writing for... it's not to get an "H" or a coveted "E" or a 4.5 and above... we write because we love doing it... and because we want to improve our skills. (Either that or writing is, as Heinlein once put it, "A disease that has no cure other than by giving in to it and writing.")

If we find a good story or a good author, let people know on these boards and we can go read and vote! There are 10 zillion "authors" here... I'd prefer to be directed to the good ones!

As for myself, I have a few in each catagory and I will post them in another thread.

 

[openthighs_sarah]

Re: It's a Joke

Oh, I do love your new signature...

If I'm busy the next few years, it's because I'm reading all the stories. I just hope I don't sprain my fingers... (That was a joke, and a sweet-natured one.) (I think.)

 

[Pyro]

Lil Red Book

Awww... how neat! Someone is quoting Mousie Dung!

 

[gauchecritic]

Re: Lil Red Book

Awww... how neat! Someone is quoting Mousie Dung!

Er... Duh!

Gauche

 

[MathGirl]

The Peoples' Revolution

"Power comes from the barrel of a gun."
Mousie Dung