Dog person? Cat person? Why?

[PertPerth]

Speaking of indoor cats (which mine is) it really helps to get a breed which is suited. It also helps to toilet train them - which is what I did with my cat (he's almost 8 months old now- was 6 months when I started toilet training him)
http://i40.tinypic.com/iddob9.jpg

 

[Homburg]

Is it possible to train cats not to assault wildlife? I don't mind hawks or other natural predators picking off cottontails, chipmunks, or songbirds in my yard. Everybody's gotta eat, and that's a circle of life kind of thing. But if Princess has got a nice bowl of Friskies waiting for her at home, that sort of thing seriously pisses me off.

I'm confused. Cats are natural predators. Or do you mean predators local and native to the environment when you say natural?

I honestly don't think so, any more than it is possible to fully train the predator out of a dog. You can breed it out, but training only sets controls in place to prevent the predator from showing.

--

I've seen so many dog-mauled bunnies around here it's not funny, simply because dogs seem to outnumber ourtoor cats a million to one. You can be walking the nicest dog on a leash and in 2 seconds find out that you've got White Fang if a young squirrel gets too close.

My friend K's dog is like that. He is the sweetest, most affectionate, cheerful happy thing. Until a squirrel shows up. Then he morphs into a furry white squirrel-killing cruise missile. Little fucker can levitate and cling to walls if it means getting a squirrel.

He was s tray that had apparently been abandoned in a park. K's wife found him, and kept seeing him on multiple visits. He was such an affable pooch that she took him in, got him fixed etc. But he spent enough time int he park surviving by hunting squirrels that there is no way to associate squirrels with anything but fast food.

--

Cats seem to be nature's nurses.

Maybe they're just hoping I'll die of the flu so they can eat me faster, but it's really sweet how they just know when you're feeling like crap and come and purr on you, even the more asocial ones.

Our older female is an aloof asocial thing with everyone but viv and my friend AP (who has been called "Prince of Cats" for years and years). Yet when you're sick, she is the best nurse ever. She will scratch persistently at the door until let in, and then sit quietly on the bed until you are better.

I've watched her do it with viv and the kids, and she waits until her patient is solidly asleep before she gets up for food or a litter box run. Once done, she hops back in bed. From my own perspective, the technique was flawless. She appears to be in that bed with you 24/7 until she decides that you're better.

 

[Bi_Kitty]

I am a cat person (which is odd coming from someone whose parents have 5 inside dogs and my 100 lbs. baby of a dog is outside). Although, I have only become a cat person within the last 3 years when I got my Louie/Lucy/Lucifer (all the same cat, and he comes to all of them and whatever else I happen to feel like throwing in there..actually I'm not 100% sure he really knows his name is Louie, lol).

I have always been mildly terrified of LARGE dogs could have something to do with the fact that when I wasn't even old enough to walk my uncle's bulldog knocked me down (and yes, I know bulldogs aren't large dogs but when you are that little, they are). But when I was in high school and was playing basketball and softball in the evenings I would run along the street while my mom walked.

(Note: We had a crazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy neighbor...and I hate to use that word because he and his random girlfriend would be an insult to crazy people. Well when this girlfriend of the month moved in, she bought her 4 children and their dog. The neighbor had a fence but they never kept the damn thing closed and we lived where the lease laws were not in effect. So, we asked the said girlfriend does the dog bite and the lady said, "well, it has never actually bit anyone but it has tried." And we basically said, "y'all have a fence, it best not bite us.")

Ok, so one evening I was doing my evening run and was less than 10 feet from our driveway, when out of no where this dog comes charging me. Mom is way back the road and starts yelling at me to be still and the neighbors to get their dog. By the time I had stopped the dog was already circling me. It leaped at me, I kicked it away and then it started circling again, next time it leaped at me I still managed to kick it but it also manage to bite my back thigh.

So, yeah...me and dogs don't get along too well.

 

[BiBunny]

I am a cat person (which is odd coming from someone whose parents have 5 inside dogs and my 100 lbs. baby of a dog is outside). Although, I have only become a cat person within the last 3 years when I got my Louie/Lucy/Lucifer (all the same cat, and he comes to all of them and whatever else I happen to feel like throwing in there..actually I'm not 100% sure he really knows his name is Louie, lol).

I have always been mildly terrified of LARGE dogs could have something to do with the fact that when I wasn't even old enough to walk my uncle's bulldog knocked me down (and yes, I know bulldogs aren't large dogs but when you are that little, they are). But when I was in high school and was playing basketball and softball in the evenings I would run along the street while my mom walked.

(Note: We had a crazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy neighbor...and I hate to use that word because he and his random girlfriend would be an insult to crazy people. Well when this girlfriend of the month moved in, she bought her 4 children and their dog. The neighbor had a fence but they never kept the damn thing closed and we lived where the lease laws were not in effect. So, we asked the said girlfriend does the dog bite and the lady said, "well, it has never actually bit anyone but it has tried." And we basically said, "y'all have a fence, it best not bite us.")

Ok, so one evening I was doing my evening run and was less than 10 feet from our driveway, when out of no where this dog comes charging me. Mom is way back the road and starts yelling at me to be still and the neighbors to get their dog. By the time I had stopped the dog was already circling me. It leaped at me, I kicked it away and then it started circling again, next time it leaped at me I still managed to kick it but it also manage to bite my back thigh.

So, yeah...me and dogs don't get along too well.

"I'm goin' home, gonna load my shotgun...."

 

[JMohegan]

Is it possible to train cats not to assault wildlife? I don't mind hawks or other natural predators picking off cottontails, chipmunks, or songbirds in my yard. Everybody's gotta eat, and that's a circle of life kind of thing. But if Princess has got a nice bowl of Friskies waiting for her at home, that sort of thing seriously pisses me off.

I'm confused. Cats are natural predators. Or do you mean predators local and native to the environment when you say natural?

I honestly don't think so, any more than it is possible to fully train the predator out of a dog. You can breed it out, but training only sets controls in place to prevent the predator from showing.

Local and native to the environment is what I meant.

I asked if it's possible to train cats not to assault wildlife, and I don't see that as training the predator out. It's just a question of exerting control over what the animal treats as acceptable prey, and that is something you absolutely *can* do with a dog.

The picture below shows the way cottontails are born in my yard. The mother rabbit digs an indentation in the ground, has the babies right there, and then pulls fur out of her own stomach to keep everybody warm. She leaves the babies alone during the day (to avoid drawing attention to them), and returns to feed them at night.

I have trained my dog not to touch these nests, and he doesn't - even when left unsupervised in the yard. In fact, he's very protective of them.



http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/cottontailbabies.jpg

 

[JMohegan]

I am a cat person (which is odd coming from someone whose parents have 5 inside dogs and my 100 lbs. baby of a dog is outside). Although, I have only become a cat person within the last 3 years when I got my Louie/Lucy/Lucifer (all the same cat, and he comes to all of them and whatever else I happen to feel like throwing in there..actually I'm not 100% sure he really knows his name is Louie, lol).

I have always been mildly terrified of LARGE dogs could have something to do with the fact that when I wasn't even old enough to walk my uncle's bulldog knocked me down (and yes, I know bulldogs aren't large dogs but when you are that little, they are). But when I was in high school and was playing basketball and softball in the evenings I would run along the street while my mom walked.

(Note: We had a crazyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy neighbor...and I hate to use that word because he and his random girlfriend would be an insult to crazy people. Well when this girlfriend of the month moved in, she bought her 4 children and their dog. The neighbor had a fence but they never kept the damn thing closed and we lived where the lease laws were not in effect. So, we asked the said girlfriend does the dog bite and the lady said, "well, it has never actually bit anyone but it has tried." And we basically said, "y'all have a fence, it best not bite us.")

Ok, so one evening I was doing my evening run and was less than 10 feet from our driveway, when out of no where this dog comes charging me. Mom is way back the road and starts yelling at me to be still and the neighbors to get their dog. By the time I had stopped the dog was already circling me. It leaped at me, I kicked it away and then it started circling again, next time it leaped at me I still managed to kick it but it also manage to bite my back thigh.

So, yeah...me and dogs don't get along too well.

It's not the dog's fault he's poorly socialized and unrestrained, but still - I understand why you'd be terrified after that.

People are such idiots where animals are concerned. It really, seriously, pisses me off.

 

[intothewoods]

Local and native to the environment is what I meant.

I asked if it's possible to train cats not to assault wildlife, and I don't see that as training the predator out. It's just a question of exerting control over what the animal treats as acceptable prey, and that is something you absolutely *can* do with a dog.

The picture below shows the way cottontails are born in my yard. The mother rabbit digs an indentation in the ground, has the babies right there, and then pulls fur out of her own stomach to keep everybody warm. She leaves the babies alone during the day (to avoid drawing attention to them), and returns to feed them at night.

I have trained my dog not to touch these nests, and he doesn't - even when left unsupervised in the yard. In fact, he's very protective of them.



http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/cottontailbabies.jpg

Some cats can apparently be trained if you start very early. But it's not very common. Many animal advocates say you shouldn't let your cat go outside anyway, unless you really live somewhere there are no cars.

 

[satindesire]

Cats can certainly be trained, you just have to have the patience to deal with an animal who isn't necessarily praise/food reinforced the way dogs are.

People mistakenly think that cats=dogs in the ways to train them, but that's not really always true. You have to find what works for your kitty and train them with that reward system, instead of expecting them to react and learn like a dog does.

P.S. Perth, your kitty is GORGEOUS!!!

 

[Netzach]

Local and native to the environment is what I meant.

I asked if it's possible to train cats not to assault wildlife, and I don't see that as training the predator out. It's just a question of exerting control over what the animal treats as acceptable prey, and that is something you absolutely *can* do with a dog.

The picture below shows the way cottontails are born in my yard. The mother rabbit digs an indentation in the ground, has the babies right there, and then pulls fur out of her own stomach to keep everybody warm. She leaves the babies alone during the day (to avoid drawing attention to them), and returns to feed them at night.

I have trained my dog not to touch these nests, and he doesn't - even when left unsupervised in the yard. In fact, he's very protective of them.

]

Insane with the cute. Those look softer and smoother than the bunnies near me - almost like domestic dwarfs or something, weird!

If you look at how we got cats v. how we got dogs, your andecdote makes total sense. We got dogs from breeding the tamer of wolves for a few thousand years, selecting in some dogs purely based on how well they'll listen to us.

I don't know what you have, but a smart mutt or a retriever can be trained not to kill things and not to eat what it retrieves. A terrier is meant to harrass and flush out things much much bigger than it, often, and I strongly doubt your dog is one, though I could be wrong. You've got a remarkably good dog. Most dogs could be better than however their owners are training them, but not a lot of dogs would take on the job of bunny protector even after a year with the dog whisperer.

H has a beagle.

This would never. Ever. Ever happen with her. Her entire raison d'etre is to find and chase up a tree that animal.

Cats are all pretty much around us for 2 reasons - they eat pests and they look really cool. A bunch of wild cats in the near east, physically damn close to identical to my cat, decided to hang out in some really ancient granaries and eat mice and had no problem warming to people who started feeding them. There was, unlike with dogs, no shrinking of the lion or lynx. So the animal I have in my house is fundementally not changed since Egypt and still around us *because* it eats pests.

I can't train my cat not to kill mice. No way.

However he does give high fives and I'm working on "sit." He is food-reinforceable. My other cat is not.

 

[JMohegan]

Insane with the cute. Those look softer and smoother than the bunnies near me - almost like domestic dwarfs or something, weird!

If you look at how we got cats v. how we got dogs, your andecdote makes total sense. We got dogs from breeding the tamer of wolves for a few thousand years, selecting in some dogs purely based on how well they'll listen to us.

I don't know what you have, but a smart mutt or a retriever can be trained not to kill things and not to eat what it retrieves. A terrier is meant to harrass and flush out things much much bigger than it, often, and I strongly doubt your dog is one, though I could be wrong. You've got a remarkably good dog. Most dogs could be better than however their owners are training them, but not a lot of dogs would take on the job of bunny protector even after a year with the dog whisperer.

H has a beagle.

This would never. Ever. Ever happen with her. Her entire raison d'etre is to find and chase up a tree that animal.

Cats are all pretty much around us for 2 reasons - they eat pests and they look really cool. A bunch of wild cats in the near east, physically damn close to identical to my cat, decided to hang out in some really ancient granaries and eat mice and had no problem warming to people who started feeding them. There was, unlike with dogs, no shrinking of the lion or lynx. So the animal I have in my house is fundementally not changed since Egypt and still around us *because* it eats pests.

I can't train my cat not to kill mice. No way.

However he does give high fives and I'm working on "sit." He is food-reinforceable. My other cat is not.

This is fascinating, and makes a lot of sense.

My current dog came from a shelter, so we don't know exactly, but he appears to be a lab/collie mix. And yes - he listens to me. Watches me, follows my lead. He's so smart, and so loyal, that he's really not hard to train. All I really had to do with the rabbits was convince the dog that *I* accept them as friends. Once he totally gets that *I* would defend them, that's good enough for him.

When those baby cottontails grow up, their ears get longer and stand straight up. They really are adorable - but damn, they're totally vulnerable too. They stay in that indentation for a couple of weeks. Any hawk, cat, or snake that wanders by will get a free lunch.

A cat giving high fives! Who knew? What kind of cats do you have, and do you think the food-reinforceable thing is breed specific, or just an individual cat personality trait?

 

[Keroin]

Local and native to the environment is what I meant.

I asked if it's possible to train cats not to assault wildlife, and I don't see that as training the predator out. It's just a question of exerting control over what the animal treats as acceptable prey, and that is something you absolutely *can* do with a dog.

The picture below shows the way cottontails are born in my yard. The mother rabbit digs an indentation in the ground, has the babies right there, and then pulls fur out of her own stomach to keep everybody warm. She leaves the babies alone during the day (to avoid drawing attention to them), and returns to feed them at night.

I have trained my dog not to touch these nests, and he doesn't - even when left unsupervised in the yard. In fact, he's very protective of them.



http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa78/johnmohegan/cottontailbabies.jpg

Stop, you are killing me with cuteness!

If trained young enough, cats can be taught not to predate other animals. It's mostly about exposure. It also helps not to encourage the behaviour through play - i.e. teaching the cat to chase small, fast moving objects.

Netz is dead on about the hunting instincts of dogs being dependent on breed. Terriers just want to kill small things, that's what they were bred to do.

A friend's terrier almost killed my cat. Another friend's malamute killed all of her parent's chickens one Xmas - he waited until the chickens stuck their heads through the wire fence and then he bit them off.

Your dog sounds wonderful. I'm very jealous.

 

[Homburg]

Local and native to the environment is what I meant.

I figured as much. Just wanted to make sure.

I asked if it's possible to train cats not to assault wildlife, and I don't see that as training the predator out. It's just a question of exerting control over what the animal treats as acceptable prey, and that is something you absolutely *can* do with a dog.

I don't think so. I think it is possible to train a cat not to eat certain creatures. Exposure works in that sense, but everything? Wildlife is the key here. There's just no way to realistically expose the cat to squirrels, bunnies, birds of all sorts, etc.

I have trained my dog not to touch these nests, and he doesn't - even when left unsupervised in the yard. In fact, he's very protective of them.

Your dog is a likely combination of personally remarkable, and not saddled with strong instincts along those fronts. You can't train the herder out of a border collie, for example.

It's not the dog's fault he's poorly socialized and unrestrained, but still - I understand why you'd be terrified after that.

People are such idiots where animals are concerned. It really, seriously, pisses me off.

Completely agreed. There are bad dogs out there, but they are FAR more rare than perfectly fine dogs that have been ruined by people that have no business owning them.

Rottweilers are an example of this, and pit bulls are an even better example. I've known members of both breeds that were the most genial, fun, and gentle dogs you could imagine.

My uncle had a pair of enormous rotts from a show lineage. I will never forget watching my 3yr old cousin play with them. She would climb all over both dogs, utterly fearless, reach into their mouths, pull on their tails (nicely), etc. One time I watched her reach into the mouth of one and grab his tongue, then lead the poor dog around like it was a leash. The dog was looking at me like "Oh, shit, what do I do?!?" until I got over there and extracted tongue from kid-hand. And, interestingly enough, said cousin was not the offspring of the uncle in question. She was from a different part of the family, and was just over for a visit. That was just how those dogs were.

In this case, it was a combination of excellent socialisation and good breeding. Breeding is weird though, as it is what causes some dogs to show stronger predator traits.

As a species, we've done some fucked up things to dogs.

--

Some cats can apparently be trained if you start very early. But it's not very common. Many animal advocates say you shouldn't let your cat go outside anyway, unless you really live somewhere there are no cars.

Mine are all inside cats, and will remain so.

 

[Cattypuss]

IAs a species, we've done some fucked up things to dogs.

Oh yes indeedy. Don't forget physically as well. The British Bulldog is a crime committed by so-called "dog-lovers" who have bred them over the years from being stocky but well-proportioned and easy-moving athletic dogs with an underbite that was fit for purpose............ to what we have today - a hideously deformed monstrosity that can't beathe properly, is plagued by eye problems, has a very short life-span, can't run, walks with effort, is so badly built that it can rarely mate naturally, artificial insemination being used usually instead, and almost always has to whelp by caesarian.

When you can't mate or give birth naturally, I think Nature is trying to tell you something.

http://rocketwisdom23.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/english_bulldog.jpg

 

[Homburg]

Oh yes indeedy. Don't forget physically as well. The British Bulldog is a crime committed by so-called "dog-lovers" who have bred them over the years from being stocky but well-proportioned and easy-moving athletic dogs with an underbite that was fit for purpose............ to what we have today - a hideously deformed monstrosity that can't beathe properly, is plagued by eye problems, has a very short life-span, can't run, walks with effort, is so badly built that it can rarely mate naturally, artificial insemination being used usually instead, and almost always has to whelp by caesarian.

When you can't mate or give birth naturally, I think Nature is trying to tell you something.

This actually one of the examples I was thinking of. Greyhounds are another.

 

[Cattypuss]

What's the issue with greyhounds? (I abhor how racing greyhounds are treated while working and when they stop working (big problem with this in Ireland), but other than that?)

 

[Homburg]

Well, the primary issue is how racing greyhounds are treated, and how stunningly controlled the breed is due to racing, but they have other issues due to being bred so heavily for speed. Tail breakage is a common one, as is nail and bone issues. Lifespan can be an issue as well.

There's weird energy management issues too. They are so very much a burst-movement dog that they basically lay around all day doing nothing, and explode into action once or twice in a given day. MIS's parents had a couple of rescue greyhounds (had because one had to be put down due to organ failure at the age of ten), and they really did lounge all day.

Oh, and they're almost scent-blind. They are such visual dogs that they will get lost if you take somewhere they don't know and don't take your time to let the watch the route. It's all about being able to see the metal bunny on the track rail. Scent is a distraction.

They're not as messed up as british bulldogs, but they are not natural either.

 

[Cattypuss]

Hmmm interesting about the bones and such - I didn't know that.

Re. being scent-blind, well yes.... "greyhound" is a corruption, linguistically, of their original name centiuries ago, which was "gaze-hound" (i.e. hunts by sight).

 

[myinnerslut]

It's all about being able to see the metal bunny on the track rail. Scent is a distraction.

they were both minimally trained in regards to other animals. both of mine were cat-safe (tested and trained lightly), and for one of them, we had a silver rabbit when she came into the house. they were the best of friends. probably way she was a lousy lousy racer.

 

[Homburg]

they were both minimally trained in regards to other animals. both of mine were cat-safe (tested and trained lightly), and for one of them, we had a silver rabbit when she came into the house. they were the best of friends. probably way she was a lousy lousy racer.

But a very sweet girl.

Poor pooch

 

[ZRT]

Cats, all my life cats. Had a couple of dogs, was very fond of them, but cats are more low-maintenance.

I have an outside cat- some asshole dumped her out here, borderline feral, mostly shy of human contact. My last ex was the only one who could get her to come up to be pet. (Last ex is one of those natural-born whisperers who can get on with just about any species.)

Couple of weeks ago, I was outside and had an argument on the phone, got a bit upset. Li'l old Meek comes right up and starts stropping my legs, then sits down and lets me pet her.

Indoor cats- boy cat is a total belly-rub slut. Which is also the only acceptable petting position when he's in the bed, because otherwise he'll bounce around, warble a lot, and drool on everything.

Girl cat is mostly shy and timid, but once she warms to a person she's obnoxiously persistent. All I have to do is look at boy cat when I'm laying down to read a textbook and say 'Not gonna happen' and he'll warble sadly and wander off. Girl cat's all demanding, like 'You don't need an education! You need to pet me!'

 

[Netzach]

This is fascinating, and makes a lot of sense.

My current dog came from a shelter, so we don't know exactly, but he appears to be a lab/collie mix. And yes - he listens to me. Watches me, follows my lead. He's so smart, and so loyal, that he's really not hard to train. All I really had to do with the rabbits was convince the dog that *I* accept them as friends. Once he totally gets that *I* would defend them, that's good enough for him.

When those baby cottontails grow up, their ears get longer and stand straight up. They really are adorable - but damn, they're totally vulnerable too. They stay in that indentation for a couple of weeks. Any hawk, cat, or snake that wanders by will get a free lunch.

A cat giving high fives! Who knew? What kind of cats do you have, and do you think the food-reinforceable thing is breed specific, or just an individual cat personality trait?

The lab/collie thing makes PERFECT genetic sense. Lab - go get that dead duck over there in the water and no, you can't have it, bring it to me. Collie - herd and do not injure or kill those running herbivores.

No?

I have two american shorthairs (read mutt cats.) One was given to me by a friend, she's the asocial one. Let me put it this way - I would have raised her differently from kittenhood, but her eating habits are her own quirk.

Ever met anyone who just eats salad, finds sweets gross and never tries unusual foods? That's her. She really hates almost everything but her dry kibble.

He's all over our food. I noticed one of his many adorable but persistant begging gestures was to stand on his hind legs and kind of bat up, so I just reinforced it with chicken. It took about an hour maybe. Now I can walk past say "High five buddy" and get the trick and reinforce it with petting.

 

[satindesire]

He's all over our food. I noticed one of his many adorable but persistant begging gestures was to stand on his hind legs and kind of bat up, so I just reinforced it with chicken. It took about an hour maybe. Now I can walk past say "High five buddy" and get the trick and reinforce it with petting.

We can get our big orange male to sit up like that now. He's pet-and-praise reinforced (he won't touch human food, even raw steak) if we hold our fingers in a cone shape over his head.

I prefer hand signals to words when it comes to tricks for my kitties, because my voice is affected too much by allergies and I often lose it for days at a time.

 

[Cattypuss]

We had a border collie when I was a child. House-pet. We had her from 8 weeks old. Only ever traind her to "sit" and "stay" and "come".

One summer we went camping on a farm - she'd never been to the countryside before. When we woke up in the morning we found she'd escaped from the tent and was running in the adjoining field, in tight circles, round a very tightly-herded bunch of cows.

 

[Cattypuss]

I prefer hand signals to words when it comes to tricks for my kitties, because my voice is affected too much by allergies and I often lose it for days at a time.

Don't know about cats (although I suspect it's similar), but dogs respond very very well to hand-signals - probably cos their own "native language" is body-language.

All the commands my dog knows have both a voice command and a hand-signal. And she will obey one without the other, or both at the same time.

 

[FurryFury]

Don't know about cats (although I suspect it's similar), but dogs respond very very well to hand-signals - probably cos their own "native language" is body-language.

All the commands my dog knows have both a voice command and a hand-signal. And she will obey one without the other, or both at the same time.

Yes! My cats respond to hand and voice training too! People are amazed that they do tricks but cats can be trained if one simply puts in the time.