Doms who aren't

[CuteSlaveLisa]

D/s is built on trust/honesty obedience responsibility and control. Trust and honesty first last and always

JMO every single thing in a relationship stems from Honesty (and according to Mr. Joel hardly ever heard, no comment, too easy)

Honesty is THE foundation that Truth is built on.

Honesty is THE foundation Trust is built on.

Obedience, submission, faith all stem from understanding one another. Trusting thier actions to he in your mutual interests. Truth (it can be a private truth between 2 or a universal truth).

Without truth the rules, norms change with the wind.

Without trust there is nothing.

Just my $0.02.

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

 

[sweettalk4u]

The sweet spot

JMO every single thing in a relationship stems from Honesty (and according to Mr. Joel hardly ever heard, no comment, too easy)

Honesty is THE foundation that Truth is built on.

Honesty is THE foundation Trust is built on.

Obedience, submission, faith all stem from understanding one another. Trusting thier actions to he in your mutual interests. Truth (it can be a private truth between 2 or a universal truth).

Without truth the rules, norms change with the wind.

Without trust there is nothing.

Just my $0.02.

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

Your 2 cents are in 1968 dollars! Your understanding comes from someone with a depth to her soul. It takes life experiences like that to know the intersection of truth and trust, and reap the sensual rewards found there. Thank you David

 

[DVS]

I could go on and on and on about how fake and newbie doms who say they are the real thing or experienced damages a real dom's chances at a relationship through online measures, because it's astounding how much it does.

Trust me, I've been a real dom for decades but try to get some submissive to even talk to me in a second email, and I'll give you $50. Well, not really, because I'm poor, but I guess there are trigger phrases that I'm saying that turns these ladies off.

Maybe I'm too accomodating with them, because I tell them I'll meet them in a public place, with lots of people around and they can bring a friend to the meeting if they want. I tell them I'm confident in who I am and what I do, as well as being honest about it all, so it doesn't matter to me who they bring to the initial meeting. Maybe that's a red flag to them, I don't know.

I've also had issues with submissives not wanting to continue email conversations with me, either. Oh, I know these could be fakers, just like anybody else, but it can't be all of them are fakers.

Sure, my erotic preferences can chase some off, but I tell them all up front that I'll allow them to feel what electroplay is like before we do anything and they always have the final say on what goes on.

So, I know all of this damn song and dance that I have to go through is because they don't know me from anybody else and so as far as they know, I could be one of those fake doms or some newbie kid.

Does it piss me off? Damn straight, it does. It also gets annoying when you think you've maybe jumped the hurdle with someone, only to find out they just decided not to return your email.

Shit, I had one connection where we were chatting and she said "wait a minute...phone. I'll be right back." Well, needless to say, she wasn't right back. It would have been nicer of her to just say fuck off or something, but instead, she left me hanging there in the chat, waiting for her to get off the phone. I can only guess she had a good laugh about that one.

Consequently, I haven't done much online mining for a sub. To me, it's just too much of a hassle, because you never find out what caused someone to stop talking to you. It's just one day, they're gone.

 

[QuasiSemiDemiEsqueIsh]

" Can one build a loving trusting relationship, even D/s, on a dishonest beginning?"
For me the answer I think is No!

I would say that, in many or even most cases, D/s is even more dependent on honesty than vanilla relationships, so I’d probably word that as “...especially D/s...” rather than “...even D/s...”

However, I also agree with this:

Boy have I got an answer for THAT. Yes. You can. It depends upon the intent of the dishonesty. Was your partner dishonest out of self protection? That has nothing to do with trustworthiness. Were they dishonest out of fear of judgment or retribution? Insecurity? Or fear? You bet. Again, those issues are resolved over time and as your trust in eachother grows so does the honesty.

Were they dishonest out of malice, manipulation, or a desire to take unfairly? Unless the internal mental process that led to it is addressed, it will repeat.

For instance, I once had a partner who was sexually inexperienced, but he was afraid of being shamed for it. When we were getting to know each other, he told me the same thing he told every other near-stranger when the topic came up: that he’d had two sexual partners (though in reality he’d had none).

As feelings developed, he maintained the lie because he was afraid that I would turn him away for being dishonest. We were together for months before he finally told me that I’d been his first sexual partner. I’d had my suspicions for the entire time, but I waited for him to build enough trust to tell me on his own, and when he did, I only felt happy that he trusted me.

We had a very loving and trusting relationship.

I’ve been lucky enough not to have had a relationship built on malicious dishonesty, but I imagine you can’t build a loving, trusting relationship from that foundation, though you can probably create the illusion of one for a little while.

 

[surrenderedfaith]

I would say that, in many or even most cases, D/s is even more dependent on honesty than vanilla relationships, so I’d probably word that as “...especially D/s...” rather than “...even D/s...”

However, I also agree with this:



For instance, I once had a partner who was sexually inexperienced, but he was afraid of being shamed for it. When we were getting to know each other, he told me the same thing he told every other near-stranger when the topic came up: that he’d had two sexual partners (though in reality he’d had none).

As feelings developed, he maintained the lie because he was afraid that I would turn him away for being dishonest. We were together for months before he finally told me that I’d been his first sexual partner. I’d had my suspicions for the entire time, but I waited for him to build enough trust to tell me on his own, and when he did, I only felt happy that he trusted me.

We had a very loving and trusting relationship.

I’ve been lucky enough not to have had a relationship built on malicious dishonesty, but I imagine you can’t build a loving, trusting relationship from that foundation, though you can probably create the illusion of one for a little while.

Exactly. This is a prime example of what I mean. People may not be ready to be forthright about things like medical history, past relationships, politics, religion, family history, finances... the list goes on. You have to start somewhere, and sometimes that means glossing over some things until the relationship is deep enough it warrants being transparent about those things. However, if you say from go " I'm not comfy discussing that" well after 2 or 3 things people think you dont want a real relationship. You may well do, but your life just isnt sunshine and rainbows.

For me, I judge based upon intent. If the intent was for reasons I can later understand and accept, no harm no foul. Quite the opposite, the truth later given is highly respected.

 

[sweettalk4u]

And how wonderful it is when that breakthrough occurs!

 

[DVS]

I would say that, in many or even most cases, D/s is even more dependent on honesty than vanilla relationships, so I’d probably word that as “...especially D/s...” rather than “...even D/s...”

However, I also agree with this:



For instance, I once had a partner who was sexually inexperienced, but he was afraid of being shamed for it. When we were getting to know each other, he told me the same thing he told every other near-stranger when the topic came up: that he’d had two sexual partners (though in reality he’d had none).

As feelings developed, he maintained the lie because he was afraid that I would turn him away for being dishonest. We were together for months before he finally told me that I’d been his first sexual partner. I’d had my suspicions for the entire time, but I waited for him to build enough trust to tell me on his own, and when he did, I only felt happy that he trusted me.

We had a very loving and trusting relationship.

I’ve been lucky enough not to have had a relationship built on malicious dishonesty, but I imagine you can’t build a loving, trusting relationship from that foundation, though you can probably create the illusion of one for a little while.

While I somewhat agree with your experience with your partner who had never had a relationship with someone else, I also don't think it would be safe to say this is OK for someone to keep their lack of experience private from their partner.

There are situations that require knowledge about specifics and maybe your relationship didn't require such knowledge. Sometimes the submissive's very life can be in the hands of the dom, and if his inexperience means he doesn't see the danger that's coming, that's not a good thing.

There are so many things that can happen, when the dom is inexperienced. Now you say you had your suspicions, and that could have been enough for you to know not to get yourself into a situation where you couldn't still control what was going on. Or, maybe your relationship didn't get into any sort of edge play, where much more than a leg cramp or need to go to the bathroom meant a hurried untying of the ropes.

I don't assume to say your relationship was't a good one. Obviously, it was. What I do want to say is, it's not always a good one. It's never a good thing for someone to say they have had experience, when they really haven't. I see nothing wrong with telling your partner you are inexperienced, but willing to go slow and not only gain confidence in your abilities, but at the same time, build on a lasting trust between the two of you, in the process.

Shit happens. Mistakes are made. It's possible to look past those things, when they rarely occur. But, honesty is a large part of the trust that becomes a bond between two partners. More so, than in a vanilla relationship because a vanilla relationship would never have a submissive in a compromising situation, through bondage or some kind of edge play.

It's just words for thought. I don't want to diminish your experience with this partner. I do want to express the need for communication between people who are going to engage in certain parts of BDSM that require someone to know what they're doing.

We have newbies reading these posts. I thought the need to at least make a point.

 

[AnnieLit]

There are situations that require knowledge about specifics and maybe your relationship didn't require such knowledge. Sometimes the submissive's very life can be in the hands of the dom, and if his inexperience means he doesn't see the danger that's coming, that's not a good thing.

Why do you assume that he was the dominant one? For a dom to fake past experiences is a bad thing to do. For a sub, especially a male sub... I can see where he is coming from.


Update: oops! This is a thread about fake doms, not just about truth and disclosures. Then yes, exactly what you said - it is a question of safety and *informed* consent. The sub needs to know what exactly she consents to and this includes her knowing that her dom has no idea what he is doing. She might be ok with it or not, but it has to be her choice, not his.

 

[Iwillbeyourbitch]

Hey people,
As a newbie to the cyber world I'm learning a lot from your comments. Thank you!

 

[QuasiSemiDemiEsqueIsh]

While I somewhat agree with your experience with your partner who had never had a relationship with someone else, I also don't think it would be safe to say this is OK for someone to keep their lack of experience private from their partner.

There are situations that require knowledge about specifics and maybe your relationship didn't require such knowledge. Sometimes the submissive's very life can be in the hands of the dom, and if his inexperience means he doesn't see the danger that's coming, that's not a good thing.

There are so many things that can happen, when the dom is inexperienced. Now you say you had your suspicions, and that could have been enough for you to know not to get yourself into a situation where you couldn't still control what was going on. Or, maybe your relationship didn't get into any sort of edge play, where much more than a leg cramp or need to go to the bathroom meant a hurried untying of the ropes.

I don't assume to say your relationship was't a good one. Obviously, it was. What I do want to say is, it's not always a good one. It's never a good thing for someone to say they have had experience, when they really haven't. I see nothing wrong with telling your partner you are inexperienced, but willing to go slow and not only gain confidence in your abilities, but at the same time, build on a lasting trust between the two of you, in the process.

Shit happens. Mistakes are made. It's possible to look past those things, when they rarely occur. But, honesty is a large part of the trust that becomes a bond between two partners. More so, than in a vanilla relationship because a vanilla relationship would never have a submissive in a compromising situation, through bondage or some kind of edge play.

It's just words for thought. I don't want to diminish your experience with this partner. I do want to express the need for communication between people who are going to engage in certain parts of BDSM that require someone to know what they're doing.

We have newbies reading these posts. I thought the need to at least make a point.

You’re right, of course. I absolutely should have included that my partner and that relationship were mostly vanilla, that he was forthright from the beginning about his lack of BDSM experience and did plenty of research before doing anything—even things some people might consider comparatively low-risk, like bondage with scarves and spankings that didn’t even redden the skin—, and that it was only ever his experience with PIV and other completely vanilla forms of sex that he lied about.

I’ll try to keep newbies in mind for future posts; I definitely don’t want to be a contributing factor to someone getting hurt because they overlook red flags or because they underestimate the importance of knowing your shit before you do anything that might put someone at risk. Thank you for being so courteous with your response and for correcting me about something so important—I truly appreciate both.

 

[DVS]

You’re right, of course. I absolutely should have included that my partner and that relationship were mostly vanilla, that he was forthright from the beginning about his lack of BDSM experience and did plenty of research before doing anything—even things some people might consider comparatively low-risk, like bondage with scarves and spankings that didn’t even redden the skin—, and that it was only ever his experience with PIV and other completely vanilla forms of sex that he lied about.

I’ll try to keep newbies in mind for future posts; I definitely don’t want to be a contributing factor to someone getting hurt because they overlook red flags or because they underestimate the importance of knowing your shit before you do anything that might put someone at risk. Thank you for being so courteous with your response and for correcting me about something so important—I truly appreciate both.

I'm glad you took this the way you did. It was the way I hoped you would. I knew you meant no harm at all and I knew you were just explaining your relationship with your partner and to many of us, that's exactly how we took it. Without adding anything else, it was an interesting post, for sure.

I think the part where you knew he wasn't experienced was nice, because you didn't call him on it. And after being with you for a while, he was no longer inexperienced. In some relationships, the submissive is the more experienced one, mostly because she or he may understand more about what they like. A dom is more likely to want to please by doing everything the
submissive likes.

Even I've been that way. You tend to ease your kinkiness into the mix slowly, after you have been satisfying your submissive for a while. They become something like putty in your hands, because they feel at ease with you. This then makes them more likely to willingly try something new.

You must still go slow, showing them how your kinky mind works, but not too much at first, to frighten them away. Yes, I've been there. In many ways, like anything else, it's all in the presentation. If you're good at that, the rest comes naturally. Especially if you have them naked and tied down. What are they going to do? (sorry, just a bit of humor there).

 

[yukonnights]

JMO every single thing in a relationship stems from Honesty (and according to Mr. Joel hardly ever heard, no comment, too easy)

Honesty is THE foundation that Truth is built on.

Honesty is THE foundation Trust is built on.

Obedience, submission, faith all stem from understanding one another. Trusting thier actions to he in your mutual interests. Truth (it can be a private truth between 2 or a universal truth).

Without truth the rules, norms change with the wind.

Without trust there is nothing.

Just my $0.02.

Love and Kisses

Lisa Ann

Lisa, I love both the way you stated these truths and that you shared them. They resonate with my own beliefs.

Your thoughts brought to mind something I just wrote elsewhere that is also pertinent to this conversation I think. So often when discussing specific topics like "a Dom", or "a sub", it seems we tend to drift into the idea that all 'Doms' or all 'subs' are cut from the same basic human cloth. To make that assumption is something that can lead to all kinds of misunderstanding and confusion.

The "thing" I speak of is that personality trait that is deep within and strongly influences how our expressions of sexual energy and relationship interests play out. For some folks, it's all physical with little or no emotional connection...for others, there has to be an emotional connection before any sexual interest is fueled. Meanwhile, the spectrum of folks in between those two poles contains many variations/blends of those two extremes.

The point is; When seeking to make a connection with a new PYL/pyl, it is probably a good idea to discover their feelings about this. Are they purely physical driven or purely emotional...or somewhere in between. If we get this basic information wrong then the chances of a positive outcome diminish. Thus, to me, this is more important to get right first, and then learn about the kinkier stuff.

 

[ReaperW]

.....

 

[Blase]

Really interesting discussions here.
I've come across a few fakes before. Perhaps they think that being dominant just means getting your partner to please you with minimal effort or perhaps they're used to dominating very vanilla or very unchallenging women (I'm intelligent and strong willed, if they don't make me feel like they're easily in control, I'll turn the tables without even meaning to). Either way they've not been hard to figure out so I tend to be well out of there long before there's a chance to build connection.

Doesn't sound like they were necessarily "fake" Doms unless they were pretending to be something they weren't. There's nothing wrong with being inexperienced or with having interests that perhaps lean towards the milder end of the spectrum as long as you're honest about it.

 

[ReaperW]

.....

 

[sub2femdom]

Really interesting discussions here.
I've come across a few fakes before. Perhaps they think that being dominant just means getting your partner to please you with minimal effort or perhaps they're used to dominating very vanilla or very unchallenging women (I'm intelligent and strong willed, if they don't make me feel like they're easily in control, I'll turn the tables without even meaning to). Either way they've not been hard to figure out so I tend to be well out of there long before there's a chance to build connection.
Good discussion from the outset regarding each others ideas of control and submission has generally been the most effective way of finding the right connections.
I would agree with others though that connection is so important though, and a dom that cares is ultimately what I want and also what I want to be when I'm in that role. I wouldn't stop submitting to someone because they declared love for me, unless I was unavailable in that way.

I'm also thrilled to find this discussion here, it's a fantastic read.

My experiences relate to most of the ones in this thread, from both sides of the D/s roles. I've found many times when meeting a new Dom that they often didn't have the confidence, control, or experience to play the part. I struggled at times to not turn the tables on them, but didn't always succeed.

Turning the tables, I found myself having to take control and direct them on how to dominate. It usually ended with them being sexually satisfied and me going home frustrated that I didn't really get what I wanted from it (as a sub).

 

[Iwillbeyourbitch]

I've read all of your posts and am pleased to have taken something from each of them. It's a great discussion.
At the end of the day though HONESTY is what is required for me. In real life or in this crazy cyber world
Nothing less will suffice.

 

[AlwaysFara]

I've read all of your posts and am pleased to have taken something from each of them. It's a great discussion.
At the end of the day though HONESTY is what is required for me. In real life or in this crazy cyber world
Nothing less will suffice.

How’s it going?

 

[golden_thong]

I directed the wannabe Doms who kept pestering me, to this thread, and they seem to have disappeared, or at least stopped bothering me. No doubt they will return!
Thank you for all your contributions and comments.

What were you expecting them to do?

 

[DVS]

I directed the wannabe Doms who kept pestering me, to this thread, and they seem to have disappeared, or at least stopped bothering me. No doubt they will return!
Thank you for all your contributions and comments.

They probably will. And if they were really enamored with you, you might even see them come back under a different name and try to do the same things again. If they read this thread, that doesn't mean they will take any of the advice. They will just try to use the info here to their advantage.

Doms who aren't don't know how to be one. They only want the fringe benefits of being a dom. But, now that you know the ropes of how these guys act, you are a few steps ahead of them.

 

[Daddysslut1968]

OMG YES!
I blame the stupid fifty shades books for some. Good erotica, but Anna wasn't a sub and by the end of the series Christian was somehow 'fixed',not to mention he was a stalker. I've met too many wanna bes who just want to abuse women. One guy told me if I was a true submissive, I would give him my bank account info after a few days! I didn't. I've also had a lot of creepy men asking if I have hot daughters!
Sick!

 

[MutualMatureMike]

I've read all of your posts and am pleased to have taken something from each of them. It's a great discussion.
At the end of the day though HONESTY is what is required for me. In real life or in this crazy cyber world
Nothing less will suffice.

A relationship where power is part of the dynamic must have trust and honesty from the start, but then saying that, isn't that the case for relationships in general, on or offline.

 

[Knoturnal]

I had the distinct impression that the tears and professions of love were as fake as the domination thing. Attempted controlling behaviour.
Mind you, I could be wrong, I've made plenty of mistakes before.
It certainly is a crazy world, with the cyber-world being much more so than "reality"
where there are at least some checks and balances.

were as fake as the domination thing?

you might want to spend time figuring out what it is your doing and then worry about someone else bitch

 

[Knoturnal]

OMG YES!
I blame the stupid fifty shades books for some. Good erotica, but Anna wasn't a sub and by the end of the series Christian was somehow 'fixed',not to mention he was a stalker. I've met too many wanna bes who just want to abuse women. One guy told me if I was a true submissive, I would give him my bank account info after a few days! I didn't. I've also had a lot of creepy men asking if I have hot daughters!
Sick!

see this sort of thing should go without saying awhos going to be dumb enough to give someone thier bank account within a few days?

desperate people

if your that desperate then you need to find something else to do.

there are Doms you cant tell are fake until you have seen them a long time. of your doing the cyber online only thing you better keep your guard up for a long time.

or learn how to knit instead

 

[wolfgrrl]

I agree. Most aren’t. Most truly alpha sexual males I know are ardent femists,, sensitive, treat women as equals, bla bla bla.
Real men don’t have to throw it out for all to see.
Difference between dominant and domineering.

I completely agree with this!!
Real DOminants don't need to prove to everyone they're "Dominant". If they actually, it's simply how they're perceived.
Dominant also doesn't have to mean douche-bag!
A good Dom just simply "is" IMHO and that's enough.

Another important part of that is a good Dom also understands that the sub is the one with all the power. If I don't hand him my submission, he's nothing more than an asshole in black jeans and a shitty beard barking orders