First Story. What do you think?

[SuperEagle116]

Well this is an intro basically to my first story, as I am curious to see what you all think about it so far.
If you like the idea and want me to continue it, let me know, also include what aspects of the story you like and dislike.
http://www.literotica.com/s/payback-for-a-tease-bitch-ch-01

 

[PennLady]

I'll start with my usual disclaimer that I don't care for non-con, so I'll just stick to mechanics (mostly).

* Present tense -- this is unusual, but you are consistent with it, so that's good. I think it might flow better in past tense, but that's your decision as the writer.

* Dialogue -- You wrote: "Hey! Stop! What are you doing?" She yells in a frantically scared tone. The punctuation here is fine (? before end quote), but "She" should be "she." Lower case. You do this throughout, and it's just wrong. Another problem is the description "frantically scared tone." It's overkill; you need to trust the reader. Surely I can guess that a woman who's been cuffed to a bed, and just yelled "Stop!" is scared.

* Too fast/cliche -- You just wanted to get to the sex, I imagine, and so do your readers. However, there's nothing "new" here. Guy grabs girl, incapacitates her, accuses her of teasing men and says now she'll get hers. Then she enjoys being not in control. Sorry, but, yawn -- at least to me.

 

[SuperEagle116]

I'll start with my usual disclaimer that I don't care for non-con, so I'll just stick to mechanics (mostly).

* Present tense -- this is unusual, but you are consistent with it, so that's good. I think it might flow better in past tense, but that's your decision as the writer.

* Dialogue -- You wrote: "Hey! Stop! What are you doing?" She yells in a frantically scared tone. The punctuation here is fine (? before end quote), but "She" should be "she." Lower case. You do this throughout, and it's just wrong. Another problem is the description "frantically scared tone." It's overkill; you need to trust the reader. Surely I can guess that a woman who's been cuffed to a bed, and just yelled "Stop!" is scared.

* Too fast/cliche -- You just wanted to get to the sex, I imagine, and so do your readers. However, there's nothing "new" here. Guy grabs girl, incapacitates her, accuses her of teasing men and says now she'll get hers. Then she enjoys being not in control. Sorry, but, yawn -- at least to me.

Okay, first off. I want to thank you for reading the story even though it isn't the type of story you like to read.

I'm still stuck between present tense and past tense. I think I chose present because it gives the reader the illusion of being a witness to the action as it is unfolding at the moment they are reading it. I hope to get more feedback on that preference from other readers.

I see what you mean about the capitalization of the pronoun, but the description of how she yelled "Stop!" was necessary because all the exclamation point shows is that she said it with strong emotion. She could have said it in an angry tone, frustrated tone, she could have said it while crying, but she didn't. She said it in a "frantically scared tone".

Also, it is my first story. It is not supposed to be perfect. I see what you are saying about being very fast, but I am still trying to find the right balance of details with action.

Like you said, my readers are looking to get right into the action (sex) so I don't want to make a long and complex plot with long descriptions because that will just turn them off... but at the same time, I don't want to be so vague that the reader doesn't understand the events that are taking place.

Again, I do appreciate your feedback, and your opinion, but I think the reason you found it boring was as you said, you don't like non-con. There are plenty of people who enjoy this type of story and I am hoping to get some feedback from them as well.

If you want, let me know what category of stories you like to read, and I will try my writing hand at one.

In the mean time, I am currently working on Chapter 2 of this story.

 

[lost_in_you]

Okay, first off. I want to thank you for reading the story even though it isn't the type of story you like to read.

I'm still stuck between present tense and past tense. I think I chose present because it gives the reader the illusion of being a witness to the action as it is unfolding at the moment they are reading it. I hope to get more feedback on that preference from other readers.

I see what you mean about the capitalization of the pronoun, but the description of how she yelled "Stop!" was necessary because all the exclamation point shows is that she said it with strong emotion. She could have said it in an angry tone, frustrated tone, she could have said it while crying, but she didn't. She said it in a "frantically scared tone".

Also, it is my first story. It is not supposed to be perfect. I see what you are saying about being very fast, but I am still trying to find the right balance of details with action.

Like you said, my readers are looking to get right into the action (sex) so I don't want to make a long and complex plot with long descriptions because that will just turn them off... but at the same time, I don't want to be so vague that the reader doesn't understand the events that are taking place.

Again, I do appreciate your feedback, and your opinion, but I think the reason you found it boring was as you said, you don't like non-con. There are plenty of people who enjoy this type of story and I am hoping to get some feedback from them as well.

If you want, let me know what category of stories you like to read, and I will try my writing hand at one.

In the mean time, I am currently working on Chapter 2 of this story.

Whoa.

You know PennLady isn't just any random Litster that read your story, right? She's like the Queen Bee that other Lit authors turn to for help. Had she stopped by my thread, I'd be kissing her post and thanking my lucky stars. Yet it seemed like you took a slight offense to her words?

I read your story. Well, most of it. I like a good non-consent but I'm just going to kind of echo the Lady. It was too fast. I didn't find it at all erotic. You can slow it down a tad, develop the story a little more, and still give your readers the sexy elements they came to Lit to enjoy.

Just my $0.02. Good luck with Chapter 2!

 

[PennLady]

Present tense is a valid choice, and you have your reasons. Like I said, you were consistent with it, and that is a good thing. I've read many stories where authors flip between present and past, and it's jarring. I'm not sure that it does give an impression of witnessing the action; to me, it feels ... hmmm ... like an insecure method of writing. However, that's one opinion, and like I said, the fact that you were consistent with the tense is a major plus.

True, I don't read non-con much, but that doesn't mean I don't, and doesn't mean I found it boring because it was non-con. I found it kind of dull because the basic set up is one I've seen before and you didn't do anything new with it. You took basic, stock ideas -- nerdy, angry guy mad about not getting the hot girl traps the slutty girl and has his way with her -- and wrote your scene.

There was another thread recently about a non-con story and one poster, who did read such stories, said that the quick switch from fear to loving it is no good. Where's the satisfaction for the dominator (?) in that scenario? They want to exercise power, to induce some fear, and then bam! the one who is dominated is loving it.

As for the line of dialogue I quoted, let me say this. I have a number of stories posted here, and five e-books published via a publishing house. I've been through editing and although I don't think there are too many hard and fast rules, I have learned about writing and what makes it weaker and stronger. "Frantically scared" sounds like you don't trust the reader to get your intent, and there are better ways of getting this across.

"Hey! Stop! What are you doing?" She struggled against her bonds to no avail.

"Hey! Stop! What are you doing?" Her heart raced and her eyes widened as she looked at her captor. She pulled against the handcuffs; genuine fear set in when she realized she was trapped.

One thing you'll see in a lot of writing advice is to reduce/eliminate adverbs, and to some extent dialogue tags (i.e, "he said" or "she said"). It may sometimes mean more words, sometimes not -- you can often leave them off entirely -- but the point is to find the best way, not necessarily the quickest, to get your scene or atmosphere established.

Don't be afraid to set a mood or develop a little plot or character. I know this is your first story, and it isn't supposed to be perfect. No story is perfect. But nearly every story can be better, or improved, and I'm suggesting ways to do that, as you asked.

It's a two-way street -- you need to trust your readers as well as give them a reason to trust you as you tell your story. Not everyone will like it, of course, but that's no big deal.

 

[lovecraft68]

Well most people no non con is not my thing, but I skimmed through this. I leave grammar to the people who understand it better.

As for the complaint of it being to fast. I disagree. Most non con readers cannot get to the begging fast enough. That is the stroke factor for our closet rapists in training. The pace was fine for this genre. They don't want build up they want action.

 

[Etaski]

Ohh, speak for yourself, Mr. Lovecraft. That is a very, very broad hand with which to swat all of us.

And the pace being too quick usually means "unrealistic" (for character development) or "you're not letting me enjoy the tension' too-quick (same thing as cumming too quickly). Unless it's just plain brutal, that'll break it down into the begging quickly enough (but even then, a little tension, please), but on this site the better ones of the more "brutal" nature are more often a rape during time of war.

 

[Etaski]

Like you said, my readers are looking to get right into the action (sex) so I don't want to make a long and complex plot with long descriptions because that will just turn them off... but at the same time, I don't want to be so vague that the reader doesn't understand the events that are taking place.

Again, I do appreciate your feedback, and your opinion, but I think the reason you found it boring was as you said, you don't like non-con. There are plenty of people who enjoy this type of story and I am hoping to get some feedback from them as well.

Well, Mr. Eagle, I can say that PennLady gave you some very good advice if you want to appeal to more female readers and a few different kinds of male readers.

I recently gave feedback for another story pretty much exactly like this, and it seems as though PennLady read my post and understood it very well, even not caring for the category. I'd say she gave you a very fair shake.

I guess my question is this: is this real non-consent, or does Ashley believe deep-down that she's really just "roleplaying" with her attacker and she's not truly scared?

Because if she's supposed to be truly scared, then I have this to say:

I pretty much agree with PennLady. I've read the story just now. It doesn't do anything for me, I'm afraid. It is too quick, there's no atmosphere, no real build up, and more than a bit unrealistic how fast she goes to full arousal if this is an actual threat. I personally prefer a mind-fuck as well as an actual struggle of wills (aside from the physical struggle) before she's suddenly "groaning and cumming hard." (And some of my favorite stories? She didn't cum the first time. And not the second, or third. It's not like the attacker's ego depended on it--he was focused on himself, not her.)

The detail paid to Ashely's body is pretty good, but the story has the same problem the other story had: nothing goes wrong for the dominating male, even for a second. It goes perfectly, exactly as he wants it to go, there's no possibility she'll get away, there's no possible way she'll defy him, there's no possible way she won't cum according to the script.

And all without him actually doing anything that would put the fear of God into her (the only realistic explanation for someone caving very quickly if they're genuinely scared and the "fight or flight" response kicks in).

There's no real struggle, so the victory isn't "all that." If it's stroke material for some guys...well, alright, I see that you got two enthusiastic public comments there at the end, and one likely female who knows she's not in any real danger by her comment ("Oh, I'd like to be in Ashley's place!") Almost certainly younger or newer readers, or they have a tickle-fetish and/or a red-panty fetish.

I do see threads of the "humiliation" factor being the stronger focus of this story over fear, and that has potential, too--but it's still too quick. Anyone with a humiliation kink will tell you the agony of drawing it out as long as possible is the appeal of that kink. You do need more words and complexity to pull off a good humiliation scene. He can't just be fondling her in basic description; give us some scents, thoughts, tiny details, emotion, tension, some slow moments for us to absorb what's happening to Ashley before she gets taken.

So...I guess you'd have to consider which readers you'd like to appeal to, Mr. Eagle. Contrary to previous opinion (LC )....we're not all after the "fast strokes." Quite a few of us aren't. Some of us skip over the ones that go from "Don't! Stop!" to "Don't stop!" in two minutes (consider it pre-mature ejaculation if that helps explain how it feels for the reader).

If not for your explicit request for a discussion, I'd have skipped this one entirely. I saw it post, and by the title figured it wasn't my type of story and didn't read it until just now. It indeed isn't my type of story--I like much stronger struggles. And even with humiliation stories...the pay-off is much more satisfying if the one being humiliated (either sex) has a stronger will to break.

 

[SuperEagle116]

Whoa.

You know PennLady isn't just any random Litster that read your story, right? She's like the Queen Bee that other Lit authors turn to for help. Had she stopped by my thread, I'd be kissing her post and thanking my lucky stars. Yet it seemed like you took a slight offense to her words?

I read your story. Well, most of it. I like a good non-consent but I'm just going to kind of echo the Lady. It was too fast. I didn't find it at all erotic. You can slow it down a tad, develop the story a little more, and still give your readers the sexy elements they came to Lit to enjoy.

Just my $0.02. Good luck with Chapter 2!

I did not take offense to any of PennLady's words, infact I really appreciate her advice.
I must admit that I was unaware of her status as an accomplished and published writer, however I still value everything she said.

Thank you so much PennLady.

Present tense is a valid choice, and you have your reasons. Like I said, you were consistent with it, and that is a good thing. I've read many stories where authors flip between present and past, and it's jarring. I'm not sure that it does give an impression of witnessing the action; to me, it feels ... hmmm ... like an insecure method of writing. However, that's one opinion, and like I said, the fact that you were consistent with the tense is a major plus.

True, I don't read non-con much, but that doesn't mean I don't, and doesn't mean I found it boring because it was non-con. I found it kind of dull because the basic set up is one I've seen before and you didn't do anything new with it. You took basic, stock ideas -- nerdy, angry guy mad about not getting the hot girl traps the slutty girl and has his way with her -- and wrote your scene.

There was another thread recently about a non-con story and one poster, who did read such stories, said that the quick switch from fear to loving it is no good. Where's the satisfaction for the dominator (?) in that scenario? They want to exercise power, to induce some fear, and then bam! the one who is dominated is loving it.

As for the line of dialogue I quoted, let me say this. I have a number of stories posted here, and five e-books published via a publishing house. I've been through editing and although I don't think there are too many hard and fast rules, I have learned about writing and what makes it weaker and stronger. "Frantically scared" sounds like you don't trust the reader to get your intent, and there are better ways of getting this across.

"Hey! Stop! What are you doing?" She struggled against her bonds to no avail.

"Hey! Stop! What are you doing?" Her heart raced and her eyes widened as she looked at her captor. She pulled against the handcuffs; genuine fear set in when she realized she was trapped.

One thing you'll see in a lot of writing advice is to reduce/eliminate adverbs, and to some extent dialogue tags (i.e, "he said" or "she said"). It may sometimes mean more words, sometimes not -- you can often leave them off entirely -- but the point is to find the best way, not necessarily the quickest, to get your scene or atmosphere established.

Don't be afraid to set a mood or develop a little plot or character. I know this is your first story, and it isn't supposed to be perfect. No story is perfect. But nearly every story can be better, or improved, and I'm suggesting ways to do that, as you asked.

It's a two-way street -- you need to trust your readers as well as give them a reason to trust you as you tell your story. Not everyone will like it, of course, but that's no big deal.

Ah, okay. I see what you mean about trusting the reader, I indeed was a bit too redundant.
I guess as a beginner I keep trying to over-complete the scenes, I need to remind myself that the reader has the ability to fill in the blanks.

As for the speed, that was mainly an experiment on my part. I myself felt the pace was too fast so I'm not surprised that pretty much everyone else does as well. I will certainly slow things down and take more time to develop my plot, scenes, and characters.

Yes, the dialogue tags, I don't like to use too many of them because they disrupt the flow of the story.

Thank you again for all of your advice and wonderful criticism, I greatly appreciate it.

Well, Mr. Eagle, I can say that PennLady gave you some very good advice if you want to appeal to more female readers and a few different kinds of male readers.

I recently gave feedback for another story pretty much exactly like this, and it seems as though PennLady read my post and understood it very well, even not caring for the category. I'd say she gave you a very fair shake.

I guess my question is this: is this real non-consent, or does Ashley believe deep-down that she's really just "roleplaying" with her attacker and she's not truly scared?

Because if she's supposed to be truly scared, then I have this to say:

I pretty much agree with PennLady. I've read the story just now. It doesn't do anything for me, I'm afraid. It is too quick, there's no atmosphere, no real build up, and more than a bit unrealistic how fast she goes to full arousal if this is an actual threat. I personally prefer a mind-fuck as well as an actual struggle of wills (aside from the physical struggle) before she's suddenly "groaning and cumming hard." (And some of my favorite stories? She didn't cum the first time. And not the second, or third. It's not like the attacker's ego depended on it--he was focused on himself, not her.)

The detail paid to Ashely's body is pretty good, but the story has the same problem the other story had: nothing goes wrong for the dominating male, even for a second. It goes perfectly, exactly as he wants it to go, there's no possibility she'll get away, there's no possible way she'll defy him, there's no possible way she won't cum according to the script.

And all without him actually doing anything that would put the fear of God into her (the only realistic explanation for someone caving very quickly if they're genuinely scared and the "fight or flight" response kicks in).

There's no real struggle, so the victory isn't "all that." If it's stroke material for some guys...well, alright, I see that you got two enthusiastic public comments there at the end, and one likely female who knows she's not in any real danger by her comment ("Oh, I'd like to be in Ashley's place!") Almost certainly younger or newer readers, or they have a tickle-fetish and/or a red-panty fetish.

I do see threads of the "humiliation" factor being the stronger focus of this story over fear, and that has potential, too--but it's still too quick. Anyone with a humiliation kink will tell you the agony of drawing it out as long as possible is the appeal of that kink. You do need more words and complexity to pull off a good humiliation scene. He can't just be fondling her in basic description; give us some scents, thoughts, tiny details, emotion, tension, some slow moments for us to absorb what's happening to Ashley before she gets taken.

So...I guess you'd have to consider which readers you'd like to appeal to, Mr. Eagle. Contrary to previous opinion (LC )....we're not all after the "fast strokes." Quite a few of us aren't. Some of us skip over the ones that go from "Don't! Stop!" to "Don't stop!" in two minutes (consider it pre-mature ejaculation if that helps explain how it feels for the reader).

If not for your explicit request for a discussion, I'd have skipped this one entirely. I saw it post, and by the title figured it wasn't my type of story and didn't read it until just now. It indeed isn't my type of story--I like much stronger struggles. And even with humiliation stories...the pay-off is much more satisfying if the one being humiliated (either sex) has a stronger will to break.

Wow, you brought up so many great points here. Thank you for such a long and in depth review.
I honestly agree with basically everything you mentioned. I read my story like ten times since it got approved and yeah, I was thinking the same things along with "Why the hell did I submit this?"

I definitely do have a lot to improve on here so I'm going to take my time to really let my ideas develop before putting them on the screen.


* * *


Anyway, thank you to everyone, who commented and gave me advice, I am considering it all while continuing my writing.

Happy New Year Everyone!

 

[zowiegus]

but develop your own style of writing and if you believe in it and are comfortable with it...go with it.

 

[Etaski]

Wow, you brought up so many great points here. Thank you for such a long and in depth review.
I honestly agree with basically everything you mentioned. I read my story like ten times since it got approved and yeah, I was thinking the same things along with "Why the hell did I submit this?"

Wellll...I consider that a good sign, myself. If your instincts were noting some of these things already when you submitted it, then that means you really can hit the balance spot-on if you want to keep writing.

Whenever the response to my answer is, "Yeah? Well fuck you, too, you don't know anything," I figure the author's next work will be more of the same and I move on.

But now I'd be interested in seeing your next one to see what you do differently. A mature response always has more mileage than an impulsive one (first reactions to criticism aside...I know we're all human and it takes a moment to breathe deeply at times).

As for "Why the hell did you submit this....?" I dunno; you were curious? You've got enough courage to try? You wanted to try something new? You figured you could take anything that was dished out and not crumble?

I definitely do have a lot to improve on here so I'm going to take my time to really let my ideas develop before putting them on the screen.

Hell yeah, go for that next one.

(For what it's worth, I did have to smile at the "tickle torture" as I really haven't seen that one in non-con before.... That was the unique part of the story that made it stand out to me. But that's also what made me doubt the danger of the situation, too. It was almost...play.)

If you are ever interested in a "beta reader" on a non-con ("Here, look at this and tell me your honest reaction"), you're invited to pm me and I'll take a look at it.

Happy New Year to you, too.

 

[lost_in_you]

I did not take offense to any of PennLady's words,

Then my apologies for jumping you on it!


Reading over the responses you got, it looks like you've quite a lot here to go on. And that you're taking it to heart. I think that means we'll definitely see a difference in your next story. If for no other reason than because you'll be happier with what you're submitting and aren't second-guessing yourself.

Good luck!!

 

[LordMhoram]

Well this is an intro basically to my first story, as I am curious to see what you all think about it so far.
If you like the idea and want me to continue it, let me know, also include what aspects of the story you like and dislike.
http://www.literotica.com/s/payback-for-a-tease-bitch-ch-01

Having read not just you story, but also your responses to feedback here, I thought I'd throw in 2 cents worth.

First, I'll say your story got a small rise out of me. Just a little. It could have been a lot more, but I'll echo what several have said and say it was too fast.

Your protagonist moves quicker than I would have liked getting into place. I thought being in the building a whole day early was a little odd, but a little description of how he dealt with all that time would be good. Not a lot of detail, just a little more than the single 'nod' you gave to this part.

Why doesn't Ashley scream? Okay, you don't want her gagged so she can have dialogue with James, but I think you need to address it. James can get her bound very quickly, but tell me some of it! do her breasts nearly fall out of the top of her dress as he ties her wrists? What expressions are on her face as he forces her legs open, leaving her skimpy panties her only protection? What is she feeling? No Days of Our Lives stuff, but I want to know if she is feeling scared or titillated. Both? Then paint me the contrast - tell me how her conflicting emotions are fighting inside her. Not a Picasso, just short, sharp words to let me know where she is going in her head.

Does James stop to savor the view? Is he getting off on the control? Well, you suggest he does, but I for one would like to be brought in on his thinking. Don't get bogged down on this, just throw out little tidbits.

One more thing. You are talking in present tense, and that brings an immediacy to the story. In my opinion, this makes the pace more important than any other presentation. Thus, if you slow down the tempo of the story at the start, then gradually build it up towards the attack, it will better carry the reader along with you.

Consider too the length of your sentences. Present tense is strongly affected by this, and if you do it sensibly then shorter, sharper sentences as you hit the actual assault will generate a lot of excitement; it makes the danger, and sexual tension, very real and present.

Hope that helps.

 

[roomfor1more]

I found it to be too cliquish, lacking detail, and you state things that are relatively obvious. For example:

1) "... hottest and most sought after girl in the University, Ashley Diamond. About average height with impressive curves and a face that makes super-models jealous, Ashley is the ultimate magnet for male attention. " What about her curves and her face makes you focus on them? Saying she is sought after or hot is very cliqish without backing it up.

2) "She has gone out with all of the hottest guys, but at the moment she is single. " If she is dating then she is single, you do not need to state the obvious. Instead you may want to say something like she is between boyfriends or taking a break from dating.

3) "James is an average guy, he is not nearly as handsome and sexy as the type of men Ashley normally surrounds herself with. " What makes him average and not nearly as handsome or sexy as the other men Ashley involves herself with? How does James differ? Stating he is average to me is very cliquish. Plus by stating, "... he is not nearly as handsome and sexy...," is stating the obvious when you state he is an average guy.

With that said I read another point for consideration, "Because she is wearing a plunging dress, it is obvious that she is not wearing a bra...," I feel this part should come earlier in the story because it should be a part of setting up the scene. Since places this point during the climax of this chapter, it is distracting and breaks the flow of the story.

Finally, I would try to work in conversation throughout the story and not right at the end. The dialog at the end seems a bit artificial and while I can understand how it ties into the beginning, I feel a lot more detail needs to be added in order to tie the two together and more detail is needed to make the characters believable.

If I were to make recommendations I would make the following:

• Think about what you are writing and the reason for it. Do not write something for the sake of writing it.
• Make the story cohesive.
• Make the story flow
• Add details, set up the scene, add more dialog.
• Find a way to make the characters seem believable, real.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

For me, I think PL, love-in-you and roomfor1more give great advice. I think LC misses the point here as an unemotional rape scene won't excite anyone.

First, you confuse point of view. Sure, you can write in third person omniscient, but you can't change from sentence to sentence. One second you want me to be in his head and the next, her's. This is not conducive to getting the reader to sympathize with either character.

Personally, I would start with James in the house, scrub all the irrelevant security crap and use Ashley as the POV. In an NC, the focus is always on the female. However high you climb on the corporate ladder, in the throws of sex, the woman must submit to the man. Humiliation is difficult to handle

You have a long way to go to evoke the Stockholm syndrome but that's essential to your story.

Others may disagree but I think you mistake first person as a way of not telling a direct story. Your first few paragraphs are nothing direct or real - just a trap that limits your storytelling